I am sorry I must have skipped the last post you wrote ,,

SO he gives you credit , He don't know how you do it .. ( I had to laugh for a min ))

Ws are funny I guess they really do not see the big picture ,, they can''t handle the kids .

WELL what in gods name does he think life will be like if he left you ??

THATS when I use to think to my self ,, if my ws left FOR GOOD , doesn't he think HE would have to do the KID thing 2!!!???

JUST think about that for a min .. picture him for a weekend at home , you go to your parents house and him with then from sun up to sun down and all through the night .. LOL

After 3 days you may be able to commit him . LOL

OH and one more thing , the identiy thing , my H use to say that way back when A first started ,I should go back to work and get an identiy ..

WELL no thanks I would want to , BUT I found out that if I worked for a year before he leaves me I wouldn't get ALAMONY for no more then 1 year ..

SO as much as I wanted to some times I am glad I never did back then , cause IF he would have D me it would have hurt me finnacialy ..ITS different in state to state ..

As much as I fought for my M (and I am glad I did) while I was going through everything I always looked into the what ifs so if the worsed happened I was some what prepared ..

SO with that said, yes we are here to encourage you NO LB'ING .... NONE NONE NONE !!!

AND I don't know about the LB in MC maybe someone else will chim in ,, I would think you should try to express yourself calmly try to think of the best way to express your thoughts so that MC will be the most affective as it can . YOu want to get your point across so I don't think yelling or to much anger would do that ..

JMVHO ...

LET us know haw that goes ,, after all you only have 5 kids to look after can't you fit in computer time 2 LOL LOL ok get use to my humor ok !

3 and anyone else

That post was pretty good!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> MC was fine today..he spoke to us seperately. So obviously no LBing went on. I basically told the MC I was done yelling and screaming at him because all it does is make me upset and drive us further apart. I told him I am expressly my feeling as calm as possible. He said that is fine and I must say how impressed I am of how you are handling the situation.

This morning WH asked me what was wrong..he said I looked like I wanted to kill someone. I said I wasnt going to tell him right now because I did not want to start the day out by getting upset. He then asked me again while we were driving to MC and again I said I did not want to talk about it. Then I thought okay you can say this calmly. I said I just wanted to say to him that I understand his feelings with regards to OW, but if I was in his position there would be no way I could look at the OP without thinking about what we were doing to everyone else involved. I went on to say no matter how wonderful the benefits were, I could not continue because the OP would be a constant reminder of what we were doing to everyone else. I said eventually that would tear me apart and consume my very being. Of course I got no reply. I am not really sure I should have said that but that was what was on my mind, and WH wants me to talk to him. Funny though he really doesnt like what I have to say most of the time. I said all this calmly though and I never said "how could you" I said "if I was in your position." So I guess it was okay.

Then when we got home WH says to me "I really dont understand you." Him meaning that I have thrown his a$$ out and filed for D. He tells me this at least once a day and it really drives me nuts. My response to him was "I guess you have not heard a word I have said the past 5 months...basically I am fighting for what I want." Once again no response.

I have finally realized I am not dealing with my H of old. Therefore I am just stating how I feel about things calmly and am not trying to reason, persuade or beg anymore. I have also realized now that I can not rely or count on him for anything. This is an awful feeling, but I must take control of my life. And one more thing I have not cried at all today. What a wonderful feeling. Any thoughts..I need to hear from you guys, it the only way I know if I am doing the right things.

L

WH: "I really don't understand you."

Lisa: "Understand this husband of mine,I have deep places you haven't touched."

~~~~ He is babbling. Give him poetic responses.

Don't waste your energy trying to argue the color of the sky with him.

Reply with mystery sound bites .... imply there is more to you than he can imagine.

Pep

Lisa sounds like you did good. Pepperband has good suggestions. I know you are walking the thin line between Plan A and when and if to Plan B.

Maybe as a way to save your sanity, self respect and to give him a piece of what life might be like if you really separate..you should try to do a modified Plan B at home.

Sit down and tell him calmly how you need things to be while he makes up his mind and until he can agree to NC with OW.

Examples might be...no sex, no sleeping together, talk only about kids, finances type stuff, go to mc, divide up household and kid stuff, etc.

In other words start setting some boundaries in a non LB manner. Then just keep working on you and let him worry about himself. Drove my H crazy when I kept to myself!

Lisa: MC was fine today..he spoke to us seperately. So obviously no LBing went on. I basically told the MC I was done yelling and screaming at him because all it does is make me upset and drive us further apart. I told him I am expressly my feeling as calm as possible. He said that is fine and I must say how impressed I am of how you are handling the situation.

Orchid: U did good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa:This morning WH asked me what was wrong..he said I looked like I wanted to kill someone. I said I wasnt going to tell him right now because I did not want to start the day out by getting upset. He then asked me again while we were driving to MC and again I said I did not want to talk about it. Then I thought okay you can say this calmly. I said I just wanted to say to him that I understand his feelings with regards to OW, but if I was in his position there would be no way I could look at the OP without thinking about what we were doing to everyone else involved. I went on to say no matter how wonderful the benefits were, I could not continue because the OP would be a constant reminder of what we were doing to everyone else. I said eventually that would tear me apart and consume my very being. Of course I got no reply. I am not really sure I should have said that but that was what was on my mind, and WH wants me to talk to him. Funny though he really doesnt like what I have to say most of the time. I said all this calmly though and I never said "how could you" I said "if I was in your position." So I guess it was okay.

Orchid: What you said was good but in his case, you are still spitting in the wind with your attempts to give him a reasonable explanation.

Here is where what I call the 'reverse babble' technique can come in:

WS: 'what is wrong..you looked like you wanted to kill someone.'

Note he asked you this more than once. Remember that technique, you respond when you are ready not on his terms and times.

Suggested response: Hm..... interesting observation. U think? I wonder who that would be?

NOTE: no commitment, no teaching, no clarification. Basically an acknowledgement of what he said making him think he has given you info. End it with a question and keep him wondering.

RE: Any type of positive, educational, clarifying point you will try to make may go over his head or cause him a brain overload. He can't process what you are saying.

Lisa:Then when we got home WH says to me "I really dont understand you." Him meaning that I have thrown his a$$ out and filed for D. He tells me this at least once a day and it really drives me nuts. My response to him was "I guess you have not heard a word I have said the past 5 months...basically I am fighting for what I want." Once again no response.

Orchid: Your response was good. He may or may not respond. This A has shot his nerves though he is able to function on what may appear to most to be on a normal sane leve but you can already see the cracks in his character.

Remember this when you interact (not just speak). Know that he is dysfunctional and don't treat him as if he is 100% normal.

He may respond in a few hours, days or weeks (my WS' response time was about 10 days - 2 weeks - for real!!!). NOTE: His response time is probably the same on other subjects or not, the worse it gets the more other pieces of his life will show similar attitude characteristics. Very similar to the way alcohol makes others react.

Lisa:I have finally realized I am not dealing with my H of old.

Orchid: Very common feeling for a BS. For him it has been this way for a while and he probably doesn't know how to identify or deal with it.

Remember this when you have to deal with him. You might see him regress to a state of mind you never knew he had. He is regressing not to a former self but to an unknown character. Same body, same sent but different character.

I use this info and when I was strong enough to compose myself better (not so emotionally charged, etc.) I gave him questionable stares.

The WS tend to be quite sensitive to questionable looks on the mind of those around them. Remember that the WS and OP are in a process of exploration so they are on the alert to note any change in facial and tone expression between the 2 of them. Your goal without their being aware is to use a similar techinque and let the WS notice U.

Basically, leave him wondering instead of LBing. It may not give you more info (not yet) but this will still provide you with some stress relief. It can also cause the WS and OP to LB each other since they may spend more time trying to figure the BS out.

Lisa: Therefore I am just stating how I feel about things calmly and am not trying to reason, persuade or beg anymore. I have also realized now that I can not rely or count on him for anything. This is an awful feeling, but I must take control of my life. And one more thing I have not cried at all today. What a wonderful feeling. Any thoughts..I need to hear from you guys, it the only way I know if I am doing the right things.

Orchid: Good. No begging, reasoning, pursading. Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. It is ok to take control of your life. It will not feel too awful for too much longer.
You will still have up and down times but this is par for the course. You will find that those times will lengthen in reocurrance and this is a good sign.

Lisa, you are on the right course. I am quite proud of you. Aren't you also pregnant? If you are able to reach these conclusions while handling additional stresses beyond your control....you really should be proud of yourself. That inner knowledge (MB and your suppoters can help remind you) is vital to your personal recovery. For now, let your M recovery go. You may see your H crash and burn. Hopefully not completely but that is a possibility. Regardless, your personal recovery needs to be your focus. If that give him further grief for a whlie, don't worry about it. Remember, the OW doesn't care how much this is bothering you. In fact some OWs get a thrill of bothering BS. Some sort of a sicko high for them.

I am still dealing with one who thinks she walks on water. We had call from her after many months of NC. At this point, my H informed me and since her own words (which under normal conditions are no big deal) have basically shown (I validated with authorities but can't go into detail) that she is now a threat to my personal safety, then now it is my issue. As much as I hate having her touch my life in anyway, when she does, I will take whatever legal recourse available to me. It can be something big or little, the next step is up to her. I am basically ready and proper people (including H) are on the alert. I have also been told this most businesses are aware this kind of stuff goes on and often have a plan they can enact. Nothing major....for the momment. See? I am still gonna make the Ow wonder what effect she has. In reality that may lead her to become a bit bolder until she her own mouth and action traps herself or she drives herself crazy.

Hope this helps. Never give up on yourself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

Lisa,

Listen to Orchid, the wise woman.

Praying for you. Hope you are okay.

You are doing great. Your are WORTHY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

PS. Are you okay? Hope the kids are doing well.

Lisa . I didn't know where to post new thread or this one .. I know alot to read alot to take in alot of opions ...

Sort through everything in your head one step at a time , you will supported here no matter what .

YOU got some great advice here , and I know you feel you can't handle any more from WS ..

PLAN A OR PLAN B you must be saying PLAN who cares ?? I know things get nuts emotions are high , JMVHO you will not survive PLAN A any more if you are not focused on it ..

DO not feel discouraged , go to PLAN B if you choose and if you feel it will give you the relief from this situation right now ..

I know many will say you need that good solid PLAN A first and maybe you can hang in there ,,

BUT JMVHO you have alot on your plate (kids , new baby on the way , the business ect. ) The A on going is hell ..

And if you don't mind me saying I think your WS IC is a joke . He has been at this awhile and I would love to know what the hell he is getting out of it .. ??

I think at this point the only part left of PALN A is sit down as well as you can and tell him you love him very much and your actions (reaction ) to him of anger is because he is still in contact with OW and and you feel disrespected and can't process all that right now so you would think it most healthy for him to leave so this constant abuse will not be around you ..

This is whats best for you and the kids ..

I know I may get FLAMED but ,,, If PALN B is what YOU are ready for do it ,,, DO not worry yourself about how well the PLAN A went at this point ..

JMVHO , he still will remeber the good and he will not just see you as a screaming out of control wife ..

YES maybe in the begining , but as he comes out of fog that will diminish ..

The very first time this happened to me aI through H OUT LB 'ing , On the night he packed I was calm and told him I love him and couldn't take what he was doing to me , and to himself .

I told him I wanted my M but was not willing to share him with anyone and if he thought he would be happier some where else then I wished him the best , He was pissed and blamed me and just repeated well you are throughing me out rember that

MY response was but you are choosing to leave ,, If you want a M and are willing to stop your A and have only me then you can stay .. He left ..HIS CHOICE !!!!

MY problem with my PLAN B if you will is when he begged to come home ,, I aloud the bounderies to be broken and aloud him to nogotiate to many things ...

thats WHEN i HAD ALL THE PROBLEMS ( THATS WHEN i FOUND MB .

BS's have to make choices to not just the WS .

YOU need to choose what is best for you now , and that is scary .

WE are here for you and you have been doing well ,,do not be hard on yourself ..

I really dont even know what to post anymore. It is so hard for me right now. I dont know how to act. I am sooo very hurt and angry. I feel the best way to handle this situation is to distance myself from him. I really cant even look him in the eye right now. Basically he totally disgusts me and makes me sick.

On Saturday WH told me he told OW many months back there was no way he was leaving his wife and family for her. Then he tells me he sees no other way than to seperate because of his feelings for her. He also told me he wants to miss me and our life. Has anyone else ever heard these words. Obviously the pain he has caused me is not enough for him to even make any effort regarding our M.

My honest feelings are I can not continue to live with him. I am already feeling my love for him fading. I dont respect him as a human being anymore. I guess I must really start to think what I want, it may be different than what I wanted a month ago. This is terrifying to me.
So I guess it may be best to seperate, so I can stop feeling this way. Any thoughts !!

Lisa , That is another reseaon for PLAN B ,, so you will hold on to the love you have left for him ...

If you really feel you can not look at him any longer and are loosing all respect for him then in JMVHO you will not be able to PLAN A .

All you will continue to do is LB . So maybe it is the time to consider the separation ..

ANY one else have any thoughts ????

Lisa,

3 is right. All roads right now are leading to Plan B. If you are truly losing your love for him, delaying much longer will hurt rather than help your chances for recovery. Trying to make sense of senselessness and selfishness will make you lose your mind. The things he says are just as Orchid has described....babble and blather.

He must see first hand what his life will be like when he can't have both of you.

(((((((((((Lisa)))))))))))))))))

Lisa,

First things first. {{{{{{HUGS!!!!}}}}}} I think you might need a few of those today.

Well, I was an advocate for letting things be in limbo until your WS kids were gone. However, I see how difficult this is for you.

WS is making his choices regardless of whether his kids are there for a visit or not. I just thought they could be spared the pain of what is going on. Maybe not.

Looks like plan B might be in order. Have you told your 13 yo about what is really going on? Perhaps it is time to plan B and let your H go and do what he needs to do. If you are losing your love and cannot help but fight with him I think you need to make some changes and boundaries.

I always worry about the kids because mine suffered so much. But if WS is continuing the A and in your face, if he cannot let it go for the time these kids are there, then so be it. Only you know for sure what is best for you and family.

You cannot make WS do the right thing now. He is in fogland, and cannot make the right decisions for the family right now. You have to do the decision making right now as you are the only one even trying to do the right thing.

Do what is best for you Lisa, for your health right now. Please try not to fight. When your WS pushes your buttons, try to recognize it and not rise and take the bait. Step back from all of it and acknowledge how you feel, but don't react. I know it is twice as hard when you are pregnant.

Just know I am praying for you and your situation.

How are the kids? Is WS in your face with the A in spite of his children being there? Are you okay? Praying for calm and clear mind for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

No guys I am not okay. I really just want him to leave. I cant stand to be around him. He is so F$%^king screwed up. It was his idea to seperate and now whenever I talk about it or tell him okay I think its time you left he gets all mad at me.

Yeah he still is in contact with OW in spite of kids being here. He took the older kids out for ice cream the other night and of course he has to talk to her.

I have hardly talked to him in two days with the exception of finances and kids. Yesterday, when I was on the computer he IM'd me from his phone and said talk to me. I really didnt even know what to say.

Yesterday, I got my resume together and now I am starting to look for a full-time job. It is not exactly what I want because my little ones are only 3 and 2. But since I have realized I can not rely on WH for anything now. I am the one who must step up to the plate and take care and protect my children. I havent even told WH about my plans and I really feel as though now it is none of his business. What do you guys think?? Is this a LB. Oh did I mentions my B-Day was July 5, and I still havent gotten not even a card from WH or my kids. Boy he really knows how to show me he cares. Talk to soon

<small>[ July 22, 2003, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Lisa0705 ]</small>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{BUMP}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

BUMP!!!

{{{{{{{{BUMP}}}}}}}}}

Lisa,

Okay, all these bumps, I'll bite!

Lisa it is okay if you are getting your resume together and looking for a job. You don't have to tell WS about it, it would probably just cause more drama that you don't need.

WS is the one that wants separation. So it's okay for you to make plans to take care of yourself and support your children, because you cannot depend on WS right now or know what direction he will take.

You are dealing with a lot right now, giving WS info on your plans will not help at this time. You are getting your ducks lined up.

Sometimes you have to let the WS go and face the choices he has made in order for the 'fog' to start clearing.

It is also okay if you don't have anything to say to him right now. His actions are speaking for themselves, so to speak.

You are doing great, stepping back and not reacting and making choices that are the healthiest for you and kids.

By the way, how are you feeling? I am worried about you. Please update!

Just know I care and am praying for you.

Love in Christ,
Miss M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well okay its 4:15 am. and WH is not home. He cant even respect me when his kids are here for a visit. I just want him to go right now. How do I continue to do this.

L

lisa,

{{{{{HUGS!!!}}}}}

So sorry to hear about this. No it is not fair that WS can't even be around or let this go for the time the kids are there.

WS is not in his right mind, he is under the influence of fantasy world right now and running away from his responsibilities.

Try not to fight or LB. Only talk about kids and family when you see him. No need to ask where he was, we all know where he was. H is making his choices. He will have to live with them.

I advocate plan B when his kids go home. This is not their fault, and I am sure you are trying to make their visit a good one. Hang in there. At least everyone will have good thoughts of you during this time.

Step back Lisa. I know it is hard, but you have to take care of yourself right now. You are worthy, YOU ARE WORTHY!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Praying for you today.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

MM,

Well its too late for fighting and LBing. All I asked him for was a little respect for me when all the kids were here. Well we all see how well this has gone. I am just about done. I asked him to leave Wednesday after the kids are gone. I know he wont though. I contacted my attorney today and have an appt. for next Wed...dont know if I will keep it or not. I also got a Forclosure Notice on Sat. on our home. I cant believe how this has affected every aspect of our lives. I just dont know what to feel anymore.

(((((((((HUGS))))))))))

Lisa,, I think it is a good idea to see Lawyer You should know what you are intittled to in the event of the worst ,, you have a family and a home and another on the way ..

This may help you to move into PLAN B with a better frame of mind ,, one of control ..

JUST get things in order , this is not the end of your M ,, unless that is what you want ..

I do not think that is what you want , I just know that you are very , tired , and feel so disrepected that you don't even know what to feel anymore RIGHT??? or am I confusing you LOL .

LISTEN to me , you are a good person , you did not ask for any of this pain no one does ,, BUT now you are left to deal with it ,, SO you need to focuse on keeping strong , and being healthy .

Why are you saying he won't leave ? I thought you said, he wanted the separtation ?

If he does not leave , make one last effort to sit down and explain to him that if he stays then he needs to have N/C with OW . In a calm manner and a simple one (cause with fog they are stupid)

JUST write down the facts on paper and read them one by one .

1 I am here and love you and want our M .
2 YOu are chooseing to see another WOMEN .
3 I didn't M you with a MIstress in the picture so I won't be with you with her in the picture now .
4 YOU made a mistake and I am willing to forgive that , if you want to work on our problems and move forward then we can have a better M and help eachother through this .
5 In order to stay here with me and the kids you need to tell ow there is to be N/C .

And this last one is JMVHO

If you feel you are in love with OW then please leave so that I can move forward in my life and you can as well with out creating any more anomousity to one another .

If he is in love with OW he shouldn't have any problem moving on ..

Think about it if you meet some one you where truely in love with would any one or anything stop you from being with them ??

Wouldn't you be proud to show your love for someone ???

If he does not leave (I have been there before )

Well then you got your work cut out for ya .

YOU can leave , But I am sure thats not an option for you .

So you have to know what you will do in the event he won't leave .
What is that do you know??

Will exposing this A help you ?? I mean to tell all family and friends ???

I know you have spoken to OW right ??

What is her story again ?? I mean what does she think or told you about why Wh is home ?? Or does she care that he is ??

Being that you already spoke to her I wouldn't suggest even bothering with her any more ..

But exposeing the A to everyone else well that is an option ..

AND did you tell your 13yr old yet ??? I don't think you answered that question from MM . ?

Give us an update as to what is going on , take your time and please take care of yourself .

ANything is possiable , even when things look really hopeless they have away of chaging .