NW,

Good for you! Now, stand by to reap the whirlwind!

You will hear her scream and yell on your voicemail. She will try to get ahold of you so she can go off on you. she will say things like "Just when I start in with the counselor, you do something stupid like this. It is you that are making a mess of this now!"

NW...DO NOT BELIEVE THIS! She has been in the fog. It is very dark in there. All of a sudden, this huge Truth Bomb (Plan B letter) drops in, and flashes very brightly. It hurts her...it upsets her. So, she cries out in pain. She lashes out in anger. But this will go away.

As the truth bomb subsides, it will get dark again. But this time, it will be pitch black AND quiet. That is because you will be having NO CONTACT with her. Her pain and anger will turn to worry and loneliness. And then it will turn to panic.

You have fired your best shot now. You cannot recall the missiles. Now, you must trust your decision and your plan. You must trust God.

The Harleys have this down to a science. In the beginning of Plan B, it will appear that you are giving up, or that you are making things worse. This is not the case. You are now allowing the OM to fulfill your wife's every need (which he will fail to do). And in the meantime, she gets nothing of you. She will grow hungry for you, as the OM begins to LB her. Her comments about the counselor and that she saw a few flaws in OM and strengths in you is a great sign. It means that she is indeed truly on the fence. That means your wife is a PERFECT candidate for Plan B. Now do it.

Hang tough. Once I started Plan B, it took about three weeks of her anger, then another three weeks of silence, before the dam broke and she showed up wanting to talk reconciliation.

When that happens for you, hold your ground. You have laid out in your PBL the conditions for reconciliation. SHE MUST MEET EVERY ONE OF THEM! The two biggest are NC with OM forever AND she must agree to go to counseling with you to help formulate a plan for recovery. If she walks in and says "I want to start going to counseling, but I am not ready to have complete NC with OM yet," you are to reiterate (even give her another copy of the PBL) your conditions, and then leave. I had to do this several times during our "negotiations" before she finally gave in.

It will be tough. The first stage is the anger and putting the failure of you to allow her to work this out square on your shoulders. The second stage will be silence, as she says "Fine, then I will pursue the OM. It will serve NW right for me to end up with him...see, he hasnt changed..." blah, blah, blah! The next stage will be after OM LBs her, and you have neen completely out of her life for a little while. She will attempt to contact you, to get you to negotiate on your terms of reconciliation. But since you WILL stick to the plan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , she will pull back several times before finally agreeing to making the effort. Once you get to that point, then we can help you form your plan for recovery.

You have done a great job with your wife and for your marriage. All the signs show a woman on the fence, not sure which way is up. Stick to this...no contact for ANY reason! Use third parties if contact is necessary (no email or letters). GO DARK!

By fall at the latest, I am betting that NW is in recovery!

In His arms.

NW-
Well done.

Now the hard part- No matter WHAT she does- NC. If she screams and cries-do not comfort her. If you have to write responses to her in letters and put them away. She will do everything in her power to get you back into the triangle.

Do not go there.

As MM said-

She has to agree to your conditions. Every one of them. YOu will know in your heart when she finally gets off the fence - you just might not want to trust it though -

We are definately there for you. I give it six weeks.

You feel like crap, but you just did the best thing you could possiby do to save your marriage.

Best to you

now what,

This is the right move at the right time. I told you weeks ago that it was time for Plan B, and I'm glad to see that you have finally made the decision to get her off that fence. Expect her to be livid....she will be. The last thing she wants to do is choose....but it damaging for all involved to continue to feed this selfishness. Good Luck. Please keep us posted.

Thanks all of you. I do feel like crap, like I am quitting but I know that had no other choice. She has been eating the cake for a while, we will see. I will keep you posted. NW

She should receive the plan B letter today. I learned through her friend that she is thinking more about what the counselor said to her then I orginally thought. Apparently she is talking about going more and told OM that the counselor gave her a different perspective on a few things, including what type of character he has ie; pursuing a vulnerable woman having problems in her relationship and breaking up a family. She also commented that the counselor told her that he feels that I have changed and grown from the experience and that she agrees. Lastly, she is upset/bothered/unhappy that I have not spoken to her even though this has only just begun. This will be a major change from my old, emotional accomodating doormat self. I hope that this is the beginning of the end of all of this and the road to recovery will follow.

I hope so too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A couple new comments my wife has made to her friend. She asked her friend if she was in the same scenario as she (wife) is in, with a husband who has grown and changed and made an effort like I have, really loves her and all of that would she go back to him. Her friend told her that she would and my wife asks "How come I can't" making it sound like she was referring to some uncontrollable inability to do to not come back. Her friend told her that it is probably the resentment that she harbors about past failures on my part and because of OM. She agreed.
She also supposedly told OM the other day that he is not going to have the "happy little family life", ever move in with her or marry her like he thinks, or be a father to her children.
I'm just trying to make sense of this, what is she doing, why is she waiting to come back. Do you think that she really will? This is driving me nuts. I like to hear these things but then when nothing changes it makes me wonder and I get let down. Maybe I shouldn't talk with friend?

I've tried but learned that I can't MAKE SENSE of my WS. They are not dealing with a full deck.

I will catch up on your thread and respond back later.

Thanks for checking in with me.

Hang in there!!

Thank You.

NW-

Two possibilities-

It sounds to me like she is confused and looking for answers.
This is giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Is this friend someone that she KNOWS that you turn to for info? It could be that if she's still big time in the fog and looking to keep you at bay, she might be feeding this to her deliberately. In her mind it may be ego feed because she knows you're asking about her.

What feels "right" to you?

No she does not know that we talk. In fact she found out months ago that we did and became very angry with both of us. She thought that her friend had betrayed her and was siding with me. We stopped for a while but resumed. Her friend hates OM and thinks that wife is making a mistake. She supports her but wife knows that frind sees him for what he is. In fact my wife told her that she knows that she (fiend) sees things that she can't because the friend is on the outside looking in.
As far as what is right, I like hearing the good things about me, her doubts and negativity about him and what she is thinking but at the same time it keeps me constantly on the edge that any day now she will be home and then she doesn't. I guess it is both good and bad.

NW,

Fog talk...psychobabble...fogese...addiction...temporary insanity...whatever you want to call it, she has it.

Stay with the plan. She is seeing a glimpse of reality. Stay out of the way and the fog WILL roll back!!

Hang in there. She is beginning to get the point...but she has to figure it out ON HER OWN!

In His arms.

A couple of updates - She told her friend that she recieved a letter (plan B)from me but wouldn't tell her what it said over the phone and said that she didn't want to get into it. Told her that she would tell her later. She then complained that I won't talk to her, won't return her calls and said that seeing and talking to me is hard and so is not seeing and talking to me.
She also left a phone message to me about a financial matter where she rambled a bit,sounded somewhat depressed, made a point that she had just gotten out of work and had just arrived at her home from work and then said goodbye.
Thanks for listening and giving feedback you guys.

She's feeling the pain of reality.

Keep it up.

now what,

It sounds as though exactly what should be happening.....is happening.

Here is something Mortarman wrote to someone else about Plan B. Hope he doesn't mind me pulling it up for you....but I think it will give you some insight:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hang in there. My Plan B roughly took 6-7 weeks before there was a noticable crack. Now that my wife is home, I found out that during those 6-7 weeks, things were indeed reaching "critical mass." This is why once you go to Plan B...DO NOT BACK DOWN! It will hurt you and cause you to have to go back through withdrawal. And it will make your husband think that you are not serious the next time. He sounds like there may be cracks in is armor. Dont think about them together alone right now (easier said than done!). Understand that now that you have done Plan A, and have forced him into Plan B, you have put him in a no win situation. He has an "either/or" scenario now. Either you or her. And since you said she is an exact opposite of you, the contrast will be readily apparent (my wife's OM was exact opposite of me).

Look, you have been married a long time. Your husband is used to certain things. He will expect her to do them also, and do them the way he likes them done. But guess what? She cant! up until now, they had a common "enemy"...that being you. So they laid down the differences that they dont like about each other to confront the assault on their relationship by you. But now that you are in Plan B, there is no enemy to their relationship. So, for the next few weeks/months, they will begin to be truly alone with each other...warts and all. And the last thing that your WH remembers of you is your Plan A.

Just like I told Learnin, the cycle will begin. OW will begin to LB. He will not be able to come to you to make up for what she is not giving him. So, he will begin to try to "change" her...or worse yet...to LB her because he is angry that she cant do it the way he likes. Of course, this LBing will cause her to back up and get angry and LB him. And her new LBs will only make him want to change things more...or pull back from her. And all of the time in this cycle, he has the memory of YOU. You are no longer around so he can invent his view of you. He is left with the reality of your Plan A, as he sits alone in Plan B fog.

So, he will begin to try to call, or stop by for some stupid reason. He will try to get near you, and if he does, he will try to get you to LB, so he cna justify and feel better about the mess that is now his relationship with the OW. But guess what? You are not even in the cycle. You dont respond to him, talk to him nor meet ANY of his needs. He is now alone in a relationship that is increasingly becoming worse than anything he thought the two of you had. My wife said at one point right before I went to Plan B, that she would prefer to go back in time and go back to the worse years of our marriage than to go through what she was going through. Why do you think that over 97% of these relationships do not work out?

But Mimi, now is the time to stay out of it. I disagree somewhat with what was stated above about not "hiding" from your WH. Now, while I agree that you shouldnt go to undue lengths to stay away from him, since you have a child together, I also believe that it is better for you if you have very little contact, even visual. It will only cause you to get upset and go into withdrawal again. And it will give him the opportunity to have new memories where he might get the good Mimi of the Plan A out of his head.

I think that if you have to not go to something that he is attending, then dont go. When I went to Plan B, my wife and I did not attend the school functions atthe same time. We did nothing associated with Christmas together. Several times, she wanted to come by or catch up with us when we went out to eat...and I ALWAYS denied her.

Plan B has to be air tight. Since you have a child, you still must have some contact. Make it ONLY about the kids, and only things that you HAVE to do together right now. There will be plenty of time in the future, if you are to divorce, to find a comfortable way to deal with each other. Right now, he needsto continue to be as uncomfortable as possible. And you have to get as comfortable as possible. The only way to do that is stay on course, stay away from him...and let the plan do its work.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

She had all day yesterday while I was working to pick up some mail etc... that I placed in our mail box so that she would not have to come into our house. When does she show up, 10-15 minutes after I would arrive home from work. I was standing outside when she pulled up and I turned around and went right into the house, never spoke to her. She stood by the mail box for a couiple minutes looking at her mail instead of just grabbing the buddle and leaving. She then drove away. You guys think that she came then because I would be home, to see what I would do?

Yes, I think that is exactly why. Your plan B is working, IMO. She is following the script, and is now feeling scared. She will probably do more of this kind of behaviour as MM says.

Hang in there!

Well she told her friend again that she (friend) has to read the letter but still did not tell her it's content. She did say that she cannot be with me right now, that she is taking every day as it comes and that if we are meant to be together we will be. Doesn't sound very promising.
How will things ever work if she is unwilling to put any effort into us and will keep seeing him. I feel very terrible right now and have a great deal of resentment. I feel like there is no hope and that the plan B letter means nothing to her.

now what,

Please don't lose hope. Go back and read that excellent post MMs that I sent to you. He didn't see a crack for 6 WEEKS....you've only been in Plan B for a couple of days chere! Try to hold on and give this some time. She does care.

NW,

Hey...things are looking great for you! Really! You and Mimi are the closest on here that I see right now that are right on the cusp of Plan B break though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well she told her friend again that she (friend) has to read the letter but still did not tell her it's content.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She hasnt shown her yet because she is still trying to figure it out. What do I mean? She is trying to figure out how to get you back into the fog...how to get you to support her on the fence again. And so far, your PBL has left her with no wiggle room. So, she is talking to this friend in order to maybe get some info that may help. Also, the fact that she is talking to the friend is proof positive that Plan B is working. She is feeling the pain, but is not sure how to stop the pain yet. It will only get worse for her!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She did say that she cannot be with me right now, that she is taking every day as it comes and that if we are meant to be together we will be. Doesn't sound very promising.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OH YES IT DOES! Look, I fell into these same traps during the initial parts of Plan B. My wife said the same things, the same exact things, as yours did above. It didnt sound promising to me because I expected Plan B to work immediately. Well, what I didnt know at the time was that Plan B was wroking! In the beginning of a good Plan B, the pain increases daily for the WS. At first, they want to sound nonchalant...like it really doesnt mean anything. They say things like "I cant be with him right now," or "if it is meant to be, than it will." Go back and read my posts from late last year. You will see all of this.

But, while they try to act nonchalant, in reality, they are brewing pain and discontent under the surface. How do you know? Watch them! What do they do? Notice that they are rarely consistent in the statements. Today it is one way, tomorrow it is another. They are flopping around like a fish!

It is in this environment that the OP screws up. They LB at the wrong time. Or, even better, the WS starts to talk about their pain with the OP, telling them about how they are mad that all contact has been cut off with their BS. Well, most OPs screw up here. They use this opportunity to trash the BS. "Well, you deserve better...he's a loser anyway...you are better off with out him." But, since there was a good Plan A before this, and the WS is now seeing glimpses of reality, they realize that what the OP is saying isnt true. So, they start to actually defend the BS to the OP. Which causes the OP to be extremely mad, and to start to say and do worse things. More LBs. The WS defends more...the OP attacks more. Until the point where it stops being about the BS, and they are now in full out warfare between each other.

Now, where are you in all that? Out of the mess! Your wife while leaving you, had the OM for comfort and security. Now, she is being confronted with LBs by the OM, and she has NO ONE to comfort and support her. She begins to miss you...to need you. And because of the PBL, she KNOWS the way out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How will things ever work if she is unwilling to put any effort into us and will keep seeing him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will put in the effort! But first of all, she has to see reality. She will keep seeing him because no one likes to be wrong. She will see him because she will try to get back her addiction, back on the fence. She wants the fantasy to continue. But you have spoiled all of that. The fantasy will never come back for them now. The secret is out. She has a lot to work through. It may take weeks or months for her to work through all of it and find the strength to make the move home. The most difficult thing she has ever done was throw everything away and launch into an affair and leave you. Now, coming home, offers her a situation where she will have to use everything she has and lay herself out emotionally as she has never done before. That is scary stuff!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel very terrible right now and have a great deal of resentment. I feel like there is no hope and that the plan B letter means nothing to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It means more than you know right now. She doesnt know it fully yet, but that letter is her lifeline out of her mess. Right now, it will appear that she will use that letter to say "Well, he is going to hang out there for me...so I can continue with my immoral behavior for awhile longer." But inside her, there is increasing turmoil. Problems in her relationship with the OM. No NW to be there for her. Pain, pain, pain...and no relief.

DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED! She is follwing the script to a "T." She will do some crazy things over the next little while. In a weird sort of sick way...enjoy the ride for awhile! What do I mean? Well ,she has hurt you more than she can possibly understand. Now, her pain level is going to go off the charts. She is the one that will act crazy and sound needy. She will the be the one living in fear. She will not find a happy day, no matter what she says.

NW, watch her. Notice what she talks about to your friend. Notice how she acts. Dont read the words, look under them. Your wife is in full blown withdrawal from you. The OM cannot help her now.

You are so close. Keep praying. Stay with the plan. Sit back and watch your wife squirm for awhile. I am willing to be she will be home soon!

In His arms.