Not good. I called her because one of the messages threatened that she would not attend the house closing if I did not call. We ended up getting into it and talking for 2 1/2 hours about everything.

She brought up the being friends thing and said that we can't go from no communication to having a relationship again without a bridge inbetween, friendship. She told me that she still loves me and that OM knows that. She can't give me what I want right now and that we have to take everyday as it comes and see what happens. She intends on seeing OM still. I am so messed up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

NW-

Okay so she threatened and co-erced you into doing what she wanted. Nothing new there.

So, get through the closing. Then she has nothing to hold over your head. Do not listen to her conditions. She is WRONG.

You don't want her friendship. You want her back in a committed relationship, without OM, or you are moving on.

Trust me, Plan-B is working....

Get through the closing, then go dark-

Now What:

Why are they so predictable? Your WS is exactly like mine. Do not fall for it. Your friendship with her will only enable the A. Believe me, it will intensify the A because she will have all of her needs met. Let the OM try to meet all of her needs. Tell yourself that a strict PLAN B is the only means of reconciliation. Having contact with her will insure that you do not reconcile.

Read the first post on my thread of what happened to me. I do not want that to happen to you. It feels good in the short-term to have that contact. However, it is so emotionally abusive to us to be asked to share our spouses with someone else.

Strict PLAN B. Will post more later. I'm at work but worried about you.

GO DARK AS NIGHT as Mortarman says!!!!!!

In order for you to be her 'friend' she has to be a friend to, friendship is a two way street. If she was going thru deep withdrawl while doing all in her power to commit to the M and never contact the OM, then you could indeed be her friend by:

1.Thanking her for sharing her feelings for the OM despite how painful they are to you.

2.Validate her feelings for the OM by telling her that if you were in her shoes that you would probably be experiencing the same thing.

3.Praising her efforts and even when she seems to stumble on said efforts offer her moral support.

But until she does her part to end all contact with the OM and commit to saving the M by following a marital recovery plan, then she is not deserving of your friendship.

Right On, TOO MUCH!!

Your post was inspirational to me, too.

"She told me that she still loves me and that OM knows that. She can't give me what I want right now and that we have to take everyday as it comes and see what happens. She intends on seeing OM still. "

Words mean nothing unless it is backed up by action. Her refusal to recommit and work on the marriage is sending a clear message to you. She is trying to convince you to stay around as a backup replacement while she sees where her relationship with the OM is going. In my opinion, if you go along with her thinking, you will always feel like like a second place booby prize even if she comes back to you. I would inform her very calmly that since she has made her choice to continue her relationship with her bf you can only conclude that he is more important than her marriage to you. Since this is the case you are going to move on and do what is best for you. In other words, use the tough love approach advocated by Dr.J.Dobson. If she sees that you are removing yourself fromr her picture permanently and that you are no longer going to sit around just in case she decides to return this will
burst her bubble and she will have to face reality of being divorced and whether she is jumping into the fire if she marries a man who has cheated on his past relationships.
Gaining respect comes from making hard decisions.
Respects comes from not allowing yourself to be treated with disrespect.

<small>[ July 18, 2003, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: tomaz ]</small>

Well I screwed up big time because after the house closing we went to happy hour and talked. We then picked our children up from daycare, ate dinner together and then took them to a playground together. I was so weak and all of this felt so good.

She said that she hardly slept the night before after our phone conversation I mentioned a few posts ago. Bottom line is she said that she has so many emotions, unresolved issues with me and is trying to figure out her feelings. She told me about the bar encounter with my friends and how she started thinking about me and how she "went off" on OM, telling him that she has these unresolved feelings for me, that we spent 11 years together and have 2 kids together. She also ripped on him for his past.

She said that the OM has been there for her and said that she is unsure of his motives for that and said that she is sure some of it is for his selfish reasons. She said that time will tell.

I know what everyone says and understand the concept of Plan B, it just seems like if I am not there for her to some degree it will be easy for her to dismiss me and looked to OM as the one who really cares about her.

Don't beat yourself too bad for it but remember that this is a good time for you to go to Plan B. Remember that the purpose of Plan B is to preserve the love you have for her so that it can be the foundation on which your marriage can be rebuilt. The Plan B letter is NOT an ultimatum letter but a love letter that expresses your love for her, apologizes to her for you not being able to meet her EN's, expresses the hope that she can give you the chance to do so, but is honest enough to tell her that her reluctance to give up the OM and her desire to have you in her life makes it impossible for the marriage to have any chance to be saved and rebuilt.

NW unless you are willing to keep living this way, then it's time for Plan B.

I understand what you are saying NOW WHAT. I wish some of the veterans would speak more about this concept.

I wonder how our WSes can know that we really care about them without having the opportunity for us to show it. As I have indicated in my post today, my WS seems to want reassurance that I care before establishing NC with the OP. How can I continually show that? Once going into PLAN B, the assumption is that we've done enough in PLAN A. How can we know that?

On the other hand, we are being disrespected by being considered the fall back if and when the A is over. She gave you crumbs at the playground whereas the OM gets the buffet. It's like we are their counselor, comforting them, so they can feel better about the sad feelings they have while in the A. That makes us enablers.

I'm wondering if there are some WSes who need the middle ground, some contact but mainly detachment. Strict MBers don't believe this. I'm thinking about scheduling a session with Steve Harley to see what he says about this.

Mimi,

If you do, let me know what he says. Thanks. NW

NW,
I'm scheduling the session for next week. I'll keep you informed.

<small>[ July 19, 2003, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

If she is looking for OM support and he is selfish (common demoninator in the A) and you are willing to go to plan B, then it is time you stop enabling the A by giving her any EN support. Let the OM show his true colors.

This may bring her to her senses or make her worse. Either way you are farther away from the pain.

IMHO,
L.

NW,

You didn't screw up, but you did set back your withdrawal a good bit. I will echo what others have said. Her concept of you being friends is NUTS.

I am 58 years old, traveled all over the world, and lived all over this US of A, and I HAVE NEVER MET A SINGLE person that wanted a friend who: lied, cheated, hurt them, and disrespected them. Has never happened and I doubt it will.

Your W wants to have her cake and eat it to. You need to go back to plan b, reissue the letter if you wish, but OM being in the picture means that your FRIEND will either be lying to you, or disrespecting and hurting you.

You don't need that, so back to plan B for you Buster, and stay there until OM is out of the picture. If he doesn't leave, then I believe your next decision will actually be easier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Jl,

I heard you, too, loud and clear.

OP is not meeting a need for comfort so they try to use us for that, enabling the A.

They count on the OP for other ENs. Again, giving us the crumbs.

^^^BUMP^^^

NW-

So where are you now? What's going on?

Would like to hear from you...

Kily,

Thanks for checking in with me. I really don't know what I'm doing. I waiver back and forth between trying plan B again to trying to be her friend and spend time with her and do things together like she wants. I was needy and emotional this weekend with her and was at her house for 4 hours Sunday night. We talked a lot, some good, some bad. The good is she admits to missing me, having feelings for me that she holds back and that she thinks of me and wonders what I am doing. She also said that she has sad moments that she tries to block from her mind and that if she let herself, she could cry all of the time. She said that it took her a long time to work herself up to leave and that she can't just come running back. That she has some issues within herself to work through to figure out what she wants. She said that she is thinking of everything that I have said. She said that she needs me to give her space to breath in and to not cloud her thoughts with what I say. I reminded her that clouds come from more then one source (OM) and she said that she knows that and is dealing with that issue.

I know that she did not seem OM for about a week. Her friend told me that she told him she needed some time. This would have been before I blew the plan B last Friday but she also did not see him this past weekend. Her friend asked me if I noticed that when we (W & I) do not talk for a while, that we end up talking for a lengthy period of time. She told me that W does need me.

I just don't know which way to go. I see the cake eating aspect if I stand by her through this. She has said more then once that we need communication in order to work things out and said the other night when I called following the threat about the house closing that we can't just go from no talking to having a relationship again. Do you see both sides? I do and I just don't know what to do.

now what, its really a waste of time to talk about anything as long as she continues to see the OM. There is no chance of recovery as long as she sees him.

I agree that you do need to talk before you get back together, but that is unlikely to happen as long as she is getting her needs met by 2 men. You are, in effect, enabling the affair to continue.

Without your contact, she will be able to see that the OM cannot possibly meet all of her needs and come off the fence. But you are preventing her from seeing that by buying all her silly fogtalk. In my opinion, if you want this to go forward, I would suggest doing a proper Plan B, otherwise this can drag on for months, even years.

As hard as PLAN B has been for me, I've discovered that it works.

Tell yourself that the only way that you will reconcile with your WS is to not allow the cake-eating. Believe me, it will only help her to be more comfortable in the A.

On one of the days during which I was negotiating with my WS, who is trying to engage me in the cake-eating again, he told me that he has "learned the way it really is". He does not know MB principles. He is saying that the OW is failing miserably to meet all of his ENs and he no longer has his fantasy life going. If we meet any of those needs that the OP is meeting, they can continue with the OP without suffering any pain. They need to experience and feel the pain of the loss of us. Understand??

I know how good it feels short-term to be with your WS. They are our life partners. Ask yourself though, do you want the short-term pleasure or do you really want her back in love with you. Go Dark as Mortarman says. Enough PLAN A. Make her miss you. My WS is trying every way possible to get to put his eyes on me. His OW must be looking like a toad to him. I've been talking to him, yes, but I have refused to meet with him. He would then try to suck me back into that cake-eating and it would probably work because I am attracted to him in so many ways. I understand what you are doing fully. It will mean disaster for you. Read the initial post on my thread, NOW WHAT. You will see what I had to do and how this PLAN B stuff, which I am struggling with I must admit, is working for me.

NW-

Go into Plan-B now.

I have felt exactly where wife is. Go to Plan-B and she will be home soon....

She has to be jerked off that fence. I know in my heart that it will be in your direction. She wants to come home but id afraid of giving up that safety net. You have to FORCE her to give him up. Otherwise he will continue to be a wedge between you.

Tell her you love her, and you want very much to be the man in her life. Let her know that you are willing to let her come home if she chooses to. Tell her that you know she's confused, and that you trust that she will make the right decision for herself. Let her know that you will respect it either way, but that if she chooses OM you can not be her friend. Then cut contact.

I give her three weeks - but YOU have to cut contact......NOW!