Hello all,

Long weekend for us Canadians..and a busy one for me and D.

Two "kid" birthday parties, one get together and my mother's 65th (I had a barbecue at my house) kept us running...the power of being busy in Plan B cannot be underestimated. Going through the motions is much easier when you have a purpose.

I'm enrolling my D in swimming lessons with a woman who has a pool at home. Problem is that I don't know how to swim myself. Am pretty adamant about not continuing that trend with my D. D has been in lessons for the last few years but decided D needs some no-nonsense private lessons.

Emailed H last week inidicating he should take her since I'll probably faint watching D in the water (not good for either of us). Since I had much preparation on Tuesday morning for my mother's D, I suggested Tuesday at 9:30. He came. They went. Called because directions were bad. I said nothing.

I indicated in my email that he should have her home by 12:30. Company was coming by at 1:00.

He came earlier. I was rushing around kind of happily with music on (no Ark, not Barry but Elton John Duets mixed with Summer Salsa and Andrea Boccelli...) so I was surprised. In any case, let's see...he complained about where I positioned the sprinkler, when I was going to empty the pond, did I know that he put the AC on...I said nothing.

He had the same clothes on from Wednesday that he wore Saturday an again on Tuesday. I felt sorry for him but kept that inside.

D's barbie jeep is in the crawl space. He got it and brought it outside. I gave D lunch. He fed her.

The best part is coming...

He came inside. Came on to me. I looked at him incredulously. I said NO. NO. Leave me alone. Please.

Where do things with the lawyer stand, he says. I say, don't worry. It's happening.

Tears flow down my face. He wants to put his arms around me. Okay, I'm sorry, he says. I said, don't touch me. Please. I wasn't frantic. Just calm.

He walks out. Walks in again with D's plate.

No food for me, he says. (In Plan A, I used to give both him and D a portion). I don't have anyone serving me, I say. Money and serving, that's what I want, I say flippantly. (okay, not good, right).

He looks at me, oh yeah? Really.

Then, after walking out and in again, he says, having a party and I'm not invited?

I just looked at him more incredulously.

Then he injects some humour into statement like do you want the chiminea (he knows I love it), how about the lawn chair, the dining room...

I call out to D that Daddy is leaving. She doesn't have a problem with this at all.

We had a great day (I was a little down) but told no one about the incidence. I will tell only MB'ers.

Thanks for listening.

<small>[ September 19, 2003, 11:50 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]</small>

Well yes you did fall off, but you handled it well under the circumstances.
WARNING: He may now believe that everything is okay for him to pop in for a visit anytime with his negative attitude since you had so much contact with him inside the house. Time to get right back on that horse! But I think you handled it well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I keep on reading your posts T, even though I rarely respond anymore. The others tend to share thoughts that I have too, and I don't think it's necessary to repeat the same things.

But I still don't understand why, especially now that you are in plan B; Why is your H still allowed inside your home???

That action can't possibly be protecting you, and that's what plan B is supposed to be about. To protect you and your feelings, and to help you heal. A sore cannot properly heal if the scab keeps getting torn off. If it does, it takes longer, and it makes one heck of a scar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Stop letting your H continue to tear off the scab T. (I know, I know... gross analogy... but it fits).

Karen

Terri,
I was glad to see a post from you.

Well, you did eventually tell him to leave. You didn't feed him, you didn't have sex with him, you didn't blow up, neither did he. All in all, this wasn't so bad. You managed the situation...next time, remember to start with "say goodbye to daddy" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , at the door.

If he shows up inside your house, "We're getting divorced. I've asked you not to come into my house. D, say goodbye to daddy."

I still say he doesn't consistantly act like a man who WANTS a divorce, which is a good reason to show him what a divorce between you will be like. Divorced partners are not free to walk into each other's houses. He doesn't invite you into his place, he shouldn't expect to walk into yours.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Terri}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

<small>[ July 02, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</small>

Okay, I'm scared.

How many times will I say this? How many times will I feel it?

H received a copy of a letter from my lawyer. Wow...he says in an email. All I've ever been concerned about is money. That's all I've been about...he says. That's where we're different, he says.

I feel like WRINGING HIS NECK. Yeah, it's all about money with me.

I can't change the way he thinks or what he believes but I really feel like TELLING him.

BUT of course, I'm in Plan B.

Hi Trying, Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well yes you did fall off, but you handled it well under the circumstances.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You think so?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Time to get right back on that horse! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm back on. He knows I'm serious.

Hi Topie, Hope you're well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is your H still allowed inside your home??? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's not. Tuesday was unique because of D and swimming.

Lor, Good to hear from you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still say he doesn't consistantly act like a man who WANTS a divorce, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God, I hope so.

Thanks to all.

Hello all, I wish all the American MB'ers a safe and happy July 4th weekend.

Okay, I know the boards will be slow. I just feel some weakness and need to vent a little. I'm scared. Really scared about this legal process.

It's hitting me front and centre. God, isn't it hitting him too?

I continuously remind myself that I don't want CRUMBS. I push myself NOT to convince him of my motives or my philosophies in life.

I am not communicating to him or to anyone...I say less about me than I used to to anyone besides MB.

I am having a garage sale tomorrow. To clean up the junk in my house. To purge the soul a little..

I just have to take a few deep breaths.

((((((((( T ))))))))

Yes, the D process can be very scary and intimidating. However, remember that it is your H who started this process... and all you're doing is what he asked of you in the first place. If he's having problems with it, then that's just it... it's HIS problem.

The longer NC goes on, the better you'll feel. I can vouch for that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your power will come back. He can't have it anymore. Your self esteem will grow again... as long as you nourish it (by plan Aing YOU). Remember your trip to Savannah? Where is THAT Terrified? Bring her back, will you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm glad to hear that your H is no longer allowed in your home, and that the other day was only an exception. I don't recall you mentioning that before in any previous threads, which is why I commented on it.

I'm home all weekend, except for Saturday night, if you need to talk. (I've joined a local book club... a spin off from "Oprah's book club"... and we're discussing "East of Eden" by John Steinbeck... and Sat. night is our first meeting. 10 gals. It should be fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

I'm thinking of ya girl! I always do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Karen

p.s. Isn't dd's b-day coming up, or just passed? What were/are the plans for her big 4th birthday?

Hi T,

Thinking of you again. I too was considering a garage sale tomorrow... lots of work, but I am sure worth it!

I am alone today and should meet my parents tomorrow at a closeby lake for fireworks.. they have the kids on a brief camping trip right now...

Anyway = I lbed again this week, so now wh is back to the- see, how bad you are routine. I am sick and tired of it. I have to be practically perfect to get any sort of movement from him... and he gets to be him, however that is.... no child support, or very little, etc.

Anyway, stressed and trying to take care of me. TIred of not being loved the right way by the man I married.

I hope you have a happy weekend.

Hugs, H

T, that is common, good days, bad days and in between both days! Like Topie said HE STARTAED THE PROCESS. You are protecting yourself. He emailed you to get a REACTION to his ACTIONS. Vent here to us. Just keep in mind, he doesn't and will never understand your explanations of anything. He will just turn it around that you are the BAD GUY once again. PLAN B is for you to understand, not to make him understand. RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO ENLIGHTEN HIM, IT WON'T WORK WITH THE FOG HE IS IN! He will complain to anyone and everyone, so expect the COMMON WS REACTIONS and prepare yourself. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM AT ALL.

Hello all,

Made it through the weekend. I know alot of you find weekends difficult. I feel your pain.

Had a garage sale on Saturday. Two of my friends came by with kids. Had a great lunch with all of them. Didn't leave until 5:00 p.m. Cleaned up. Exhausted but felt good.

It seems that D and I are becoming closer than ever.

H had a soccer tournament ALL day which was God's way of helping me. No bothering me AT all.

Sunday...a birthday celebration for one of my friends. With kids at a restaurant...great time. To her pool after the restaurant.

Homebound by 6:00. Had indicated to H that she would be available after 6:00 for him to see her BUT she fell asleep. I tried to wake her. Nothing. H not happy. D finally woke at 8:30. Called H. Picked her up and took her for an ice cream. Great. She comes home. Announces that papa is going to buy a house and she's going to sleep there. You can come too, Mommy.

I was silent. Tears. Couldn't help them. D says, Mommy, not for a long time.

I just don't want to see her go anywhere else.

Thanks Topie for your offer. Wonderful of you. Hope you're doing well. Book club sounds terrific. I'm sure you'll love it.

You have a great memory! D's birthday is in two weeks. Still trying to decide on a theme...

Honey, Hope your weekend went well. Thinking of you too.

Garage sale is SO much work but at least I've done some PURGING...

Hi Trying, Okay, I didn't try to educate him on my worthiness. I said and did nothing in response.

He's just plain angry at me all the time, isn't he but at least there's no fighting or yelling.

Nothing.

Thanks for all your support.

T:

Have you told him lately that you want to save the marriage/ suggested counseling with no contact to the ow? I know you have in the past, but your posts sound like things are so tense and angry - can you show him kindness through the pain?

This is the only thing I can imagine doing to make things better. I know you are doing the best you can/ just a suggestion to ease the tension... and perhaps keep that door open before it locks.

Be hopeful, let him you know you are protecting yourself from pain and that is why the no contact. Let him know you want reconciliation if he will drop ow and try with counseling, etc.

I am sure your plan b letter sd all this, but did he read it? It seems like he is in punishment mode, so maybe he clearly knows reconciliation is an option. For my h, he had to see me acting kinder and more loving even in the face of the pure hell that he threw me in. Things are still hopeful... I hope. Be happy and take care of you and D.

Hugs, H

I disagree with Honey -- you're in Plan B -- I wouldn't discuss anything with him whatsoever.

Hopefully your Plan B letter contained the provisions about no contact/counseling if he ever wanted to recover the marriage. Its truly in his hands at this point.

Also, I want to give you something to think about T. I strongly suspect that your H is the type of man that would plant the "house" idea in your daughters head to cruelly taunt you. Since he no longer has access to you, he will surely use her to "get to you." By the way, I see he didn't have the guts to tell her that mommy would not be living there. Coward.

Had to ck back/ partly I knew my thoughts could be misunderstood.... maybe? Not saying they were by anyone, but being nice in plan B... what exactly did I suggest?

I suggest... when you do have contact conversation it is brief/ kind/ distant.

I suggest if things EVER get ugly/tense and he is pushing you/ coming onto you/ in your house or at the door prodding or being angry/ that you politely say you are keeping distance b/c you cannot take the pain of the constant tense conflict.

Love can cure quite a bit, even if that little bitty bit of kid related/finance related/ even d papers related contact is the only respectful kindness he ever sees in you... let it be just that Respectful/ courteous / kindness- without sting, in the face of his sting.... This is one concept that is saving my marriage, so I must reccomend it to T.

I see loving mbers/ well intentioned/ suggesting that T get sarcastic/ be rude back, etc.

I remember one post where it appeared to me he was in your presence and you refused to talk.... I am not at all being critical.... but I think polite interchanges without sting would be ok when you MUST deal with him. You can take the lead to show him/ teach him how to be kind to you again. This takes tons of personal power and lack of emotional vulnerability. ID his game... it is to upset you. Don't let him.

I want to suggest to T things that are helping me save my marriage. I really think mine is going to be saved, and it was/is a tough tough situation.

I just think angry/spiteful mean spirtied interactions with the rare amount of plan b contact there is, will help build distance... do this with LOVE, in spite of him.

I am not saying go and have a big conversation/talk etc. with him. I am saying if there must be contact have it on your terms, kind ones, the kind T respects.

I think this man loves you T, I think he is very prideful and mixed up. Any excuse available for him to blame you, he will take... he cannot look at himself right now... he is in denial.

I know you know what is best T. But somehow I do not think he really wants a D deep down.... I think he needs to see how great you are in the worst of situations, and realize what a XXXX he is.

I certainly don't know anything much, but I do know that the snippets of kindness I showed / show in the face of true meanness and cruelty are showing my h exactly what he has to lose.

Don't give up!

Hugs and Hope,

Honey

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Honey ]</small>

Terri,
I think Honey has some valid points about kindness, but when H has already walked into your house, he's already pushing buttons, crossing boundaries. So, I don't believe calling for your daughter to say goodbye is rude, I think it's fairly polite under those circumstances.

If you would find yourself in a pleasant conversation with him...maybe that would be different, but it sounds like either he mentions the divorce, complains about how you do your yard. Even the hitting on you, though it shows he has interest in you, it doesn't sound like it was a romantic or loving gesture.

PLan B is to safeguard the remaining love when the lovebank is in severe drain and empty a possibility. Your H drains you each time he forces himself into your house.

I don't like to give advice about Plan B, because I couldn't make it work with kids. What did work at the point where I think you are at, (post long Plan A) was acting as if divorced, because like you, the paperwork was in progress. It obviously didn't mean I wasn't open to reconciliation, since we reconciled, but my H had thought that he wanted a divorce for so long that he needed to be shown that I had no intention of being his best friend, his companion after divorce.

Other people can continue a almost intimate relationship after divorce, I didn't want that. I wanted either a husband, or an ex-husband with whom I shared parenting and no more, not something in between.

Terri, have you read DIVORCE BUSTERS by Weiner-Davies? If you haven't, it's definitely worth a read and might help you feel more in control, because in her terms you are pulling a 180, maybe even a Last Resort. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wishing you a better day.

Lori and Lexxxy have some valid points. You are in Plan B, everything you wanted and wished for your marriage was laid out to him when you were in Plan A. Even when he was mentally abusing you, you acted in kindness. Plan B means NO CONTACT! He has to see what life is like without you being his emotional punching bag. I do believe what Lexxxy said, that he planted that seed in your childs head to get a REACTION out of you. Do not respond to it.

Hello all,

H still tries to call me by phone although I have repeatedly told him that I cannot/will not answer. Today he tried to call my work # 3 or 4 times and did not leave a message. I wonder why he tries to force the issue. I've resent the Plan B letter but perhaps he doesn't read it.

I spoke to one of my SIL's yesterday. Wanted to air out a few things. We've always been close. She's pulled back a little in recent months. Didn't want to hear bad things being said about her brother anymore. I understand now and see things differently.

Of course, you want the world to shun the "bad" guy. Doesn't happen in real life. I told her that. Just don't want to lose relationships as a result. I feel better today that I made things a little clearer. The only thing that bothered me a little was that my SIL said, "Well, I do believe him when he says that he would have left anyway even if the OW wasn't in the picture."

Is that typical WS script? Is that typical of what/other people say in response? I just told my SIL this, "sure, it's easy for him to say that it would have happened anyway...it's a good way out."

Hi Honey, According to Steve H's Plan B rules, mum's the word. The letter should explain everything and it does.

So I say nothing. I am not angry. I would like to think of myself as firm.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be hopeful, let him you know you are protecting yourself from pain and that is why the no contact. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exact statement is made in the Plan B letter.

Thanks dear Honey.

Hello Lex, Hope you're well and enjoying the summer.

You certainly did give me something to think about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I strongly suspect that your H is the type of man that would plant the "house" idea in your daughters head to cruelly taunt you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think that he would go stoop so low? I think he really wants to buy a home or so he believes.

Thanks Lex.

Honey, God I wish I could be half as positive as you. That's a battle in itself

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> when you do have contact conversation it is brief/ kind/ distant. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Definitely. Already in place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly don't know anything much, but I do know that the snippets of kindness I showed / show in the face of true meanness and cruelty are showing my h exactly what he has to lose. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad it is working for you. I'm not sure that my smiles and courtesies will do the same for my H.

Hi Lor, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you would find yourself in a pleasant conversation with him...maybe that would be different, but it sounds like either he mentions the divorce, complains about how you do your yard. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't want to find myself in a conversation with him anymore for the exact reasons you've mentioned. It has to be brief, curt and to the point. Hearing his voice hurts me. Hearing lack of emotional connectedness pains me. Email is better.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but my H had thought that he wanted a divorce for so long that he needed to be shown that I had no intention of being his best friend, his companion after divorce. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's exactly my thinking. My H thinks we can be "friends". No way.

Funny you should DB, Lor. I did in fact purchase the book last year and find myself reading and re-reading...

Hi Trying, Thanks for keeping up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do believe what Lexxxy said, that he planted that seed in your childs head to get a REACTION out of you. Do not respond to it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn't...hard as it was. I just cried with my D.

Thanks to all of you for keeping in touch.

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]</small>

I can't be there/ and see/know the reality of what you face--- but I do care. I just wish he would turn around for you. Sorry for going off on being nice....in plan B. Yes, I do believe in plan B!- but know there are times you must speak regarding D, etc. I know you are doing it, but he doesn't seem to get it! ;(

Anyway- I can't know the reality of who he is, but he sure sounds like he still loves you- despite his insanity.

Pray, that is all I can think of now.

Hugs, H

Honey, Thank-you so much for caring enough to respond the way that you do. I wish we MB'ers were closer. I know it would make our days easier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't know the reality of who he is, but he sure sounds like he still loves you- despite his insanity. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wish that were true.

I do pray frequently.

Hugs to you

Cking in on you! Keep believing! THere is lots of power in that prayer, even praying good things for ws.... I know you do!

Amazing I heard a story yesterday that someone drowned here in the Houston area, and with lots of prayer and support from the area, 3 yrs ago... actually- that person was put on life support after being life flighted to a hospital,a nd that person came back to life... the prayer really helped reach God. GOd can work miracles. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

I am still up and down on the roller coaster but the up is more lately. I really think if I didn't/don't stop believing in my family and knowing this will all work out... then it won't. For now, it is our turns to be the strong ones in the M... our spouses are weak.

My wh is talking of coming home and improving our M, much much more lately....

Give it time T, this is just a seperation agreement, right? After 2 yrs, if he really wanted a D, he would file for one right?

Keep in mind even if he buys a house.... if you work things out it will be yours too one day?!... and maybe you could use it for a rental? Or maybe it would be a better place for him and your D while away from you?

I know my h still throws temper tantrums of a sort.... last night in fact when I asked him something he thought I could only know from snooping... WRONG... but he is made thinking I am a snoop. Well, he will have to calm down eventually... he put a damper on a great couple of days with his accusastions... it was late, he was hungry/ and I am hoping that by his seeing my mature responses... he will do the same in turn.

Believe in Good Outcomes, and they will come.
What you think about- you bring about! Think about happiness, and finding it in your life with D, and someday with DH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Rememeber the good man he was to you before/ and see him through those glasses at times- don't forget to wear the reality glasses/ but I do think he is covering up his pain with all this meanie attitude - much like an angry child who does not know how to communicate how he feels except to throw a fit or pick on someone- bully them. The bully is usually very insecure.

There is power in belief, stay positive. Those positive feelings will help you in so many ways, even in another 180...

Go to a ladies bible study, anything that will bring back to you the power of the Lord and how he can be your rock.

Lately when things go down for me, I am asking God to help me figure out what to do and how to grow calm in the storm... he usually seems to help and reminds me that He can take care of this....

Hugs, Honey

Hi Honey, Hope you're having a good day so far. Hard to have good days, isnt' it sometimes? I guess "good" is relative...

One of my best friends called me last night and left me a message...I've lost my zest and they're worried. I'm just not the same.

And I guess I won't be.

H went golfing with some of OUR old friends yesterday...he hasn't seen or spoken to these three guys in one year. I asked them NOT to mention anything about me. And you know what? H said that out of respect for me, he would prefer nothing be discussed. They found that "gentlemanly" and I guess I did too.

Not sure how to take it but I guess I shouldn't even waste time thinking about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> THere is lots of power in that prayer, even praying good things for ws.... I know you do! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do pray for him often and I definitely believe in the power of prayer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wh is talking of coming home and improving our M, much much more lately....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad for you. You've worked hard to get to where you're at and you've endured much...

Thanks for your prayers and your continued encouragement.

Hugs.