Update...and need your help.

He came by today to pick up D. He goes downstairs (I leave the door unlocked). I leave out the front. He came out to the front door to ask me something. I did not respond.

He waited. Did you hear me, he said. I ignored him.

Is what I did appropriate Plan B behaviour? Should I have listened to him? Is this viewed as an LB or does it really matter?

I need some push, some advice, some help...anything.

Terri, my take on Plan B is that you set things up so that you aren't around your spouse...not that you ignore them. The point, I believe, is to give you the space to heal without having to try to avoid them...and them the reality of life as if you were divorced. You still let him trapse in to your home as if it were his own, and then turn your back and ignore him as if he weren't there.

I want you to know that I've watched your story for a very long time and I feel for you. I think you're doing very well considering your circumstances. So please don't take what I'm about to say as a personal blow to you. I just get tired of watching someone who deserves so much more, accept so much less. It's my opinion that you have been depressed for a long time and don't seem to have any inclination to do anything about it? You seem to have accepted victim status. In your last post you said your friends noticed you've lost your zest, you aren't the same, and you won't be. Why not? Isn't that YOUR CHOICE? Why would you choose that?

I don't think you're truly doing a Plan B. You are far from being out of his life. And yes, you're actually LBing by ignoring him. Get on some antidepressants, GET A LIFE, and make different arrangements so that you don't have to avoid and ignore him. I also think that Plan B with children means that on occasion you will need to speak to him. I think if you keep the conversation about your daughter and find appropriate things to say that will let your husband know that any other conversation about any other part of your life is not up for discussion with him...but don't just act like you're partially deaf. I would find that annoying and definatly NOT attractive.

Again, I hope I haven't hurt you. I just desparetly want to see you grow a backbone and start enjoying life again. There's so much more to life than just your marriage and your semi-tyrant of a husband. If all you do is focus on that, you're going to lose out on everything else. I'd hate to see that happen. Take care.

Hello Hope, Nice to hear from you. Please understand that I look to this board for invaluable guidance. Anything you say to me is not considered a blow...I appreciate your words and your time.

Plan B is SO confusing at times. Quite honestly, it's hard to speak to him. I don't want to give him an opportunity to say anything to me. I feel too vulnerable. I feel like I've opened the door too widely. I spoke to him on Sunday re:visiting D and it's as if I felt I was letting him in too much...I'm scared to converse in person at any level. I don't want to hear his voice. It hurts too much to look at him, to see him so disconnected.

If I were to answer him, it would mean I would have to look into his eyes and remember what was and what isn't. I'd have to remember my love for him.

I did send him a courteous email asking him for the details of this weekend making no reference to his attempt to speak to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my take on Plan B is that you set things up so that you aren't around your spouse...not that you ignore them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I'm a little confused. Doesn't NO CONTACT mean just that?

A mutual friend of ours has been PLAN B'ing me and H. She doesn't pick up the phone. She doesn't respond to emails or voice mails. By doing this, she has really gotten her point across...and I respect and love her more for it. Never thought I would but it's been six months and I understand now why she's done what she's done.

Should I not stay that firm with H? Shun him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't think you're truly doing a Plan B. You are far from being out of his life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused again. Tell me what you mean by this. What should I do to be out of his life? Does he not believe I'm out?

Did you remain steadfast until the end that you did not love your husband? That you did not want your marriage? Was your H in Plan B?

Thank-you for your words of wisdom.

T, it depends on what his question to you was about. If it was regarding your daughter then you should respectfully answer him and keep going. If it was something silly, like when is the last time you cut the grass or a question that sounds like it is giving him a lead to emotionally abuse you then their is no need for spoken word. I understand that you had to arrange for him to pick your daughter up at your home and that you will bump in to each other on occasion but it doens't mean you have to pretend to be his friend. He picks up daughter, drops her off end of story. Making arrangements through email is good. You don't have to pretend like you HATE him, that is not what Plan B is. Plan B is about stepping out of his fantasy land and taking care of YOU. If it hurts to much to see, speak to him then you don't. If he has a habit of walking in as pleases, then you lock the door, or have daughter ready at the door when he arrives. Like I said in the beginning, it depends on the type of question he asked you for you to respond by ignoring him.

What I mean, Terri, is that if your current arrangement is forcing you to face him and corrospond with him more than you want to or ignore him...then you need to change your current arrangement. It isn't working!! Yes, plan B means NO CONTACT. You HAVE CONTACT...you can't just pretend he's not there, because HE IS. Figure out an arrangement so he ISN'T! THEN you can ignore the calls, messages, emails etc... But not face to face. That would just come across rude.

Yes, until the end I maintained that I was not in love with my hubby...and only to a small select few did I express any doubts. I thought by talking the talk, walking the walk would get easier. It never did.

My H didn't really do a Plan B per se...he never read this site or knew anything about all of this. But we did get space there that hadn't been there before...and he got a life. I noticed that. I noticed his distance even when he was around me. He was disinterested. He was obviously healing, able to laugh again and joke around...but didn't seem interested in me or playing family on the weekends anymore. GO FIGURE!! I no longer had my cake. It made me think.

Is there a different way you could go about getting your daughter to him?

Terri:
I'm a lurker who's been reading your story for some time. I really think you could use some coaching on your Plan B. I don't think I've every seen you participate on Cerri's thread in "Just Found Out." Cerri is a real expert on MB, and a real nice lady in general. I've seen people get both comfort and good solid advice when they discuss their problems with her. I really urge you to seek her out, then find a way to put a better plan into action.
All the best.

Hello everyone. Just to remind you, thanks for your support.

Hi Trying, The issue is, I don't know what's going to come out of his mouth. As soon I allow one word out, who knows what will follow? The boundaries...they're hard to enforce with a man like him or who he is now.

I don't want to be rude or be perceived as such. I just want him to understand how serious I am. Perhaps I should have waited for his question first. But as soon as he says, "are you listening to me or not.." I get turned off. my guard goes up.

If he approaches me with kindness, then yes, perhaps I may have similarly responded. However, I can see now how I may have overreacted.

The other issue is that I leave before 7:00 a.m. D doesn't get up until 7:30 or 8:00. I can't have her ready at the door in this case or else I'm late for work...that's the bigger issue.

Hi Hope, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> then you need to change your current arrangement </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, do you agree that it's okay to enlist the help of others in this regard? Drop her off at my mother's, my MIL's, one of my friends, etc. Is this acceptable behaviour?

Hi Curious, Thank-you for keeping up with my story. I would definitely embrace Plan B coaching. I'm not sure which of Cerri's threads is the one to which you refer...what is the name of the thread?

Thanks again.

The hardest thing for me to remove myself from in Plan B was separating myself from the "game playing" part of separation. The manipulation of trying to get what you want...and I must say I was just as guilty as my H.

It sounds like he is manipulating the situation, trying to get your "goat". Because sometimes an argument is communication when you have none. I think a simple reminder is not uncalled for when you get caught in a situation where he is trying to get your attention...."I have nothing to say to you that I haven't written in my last letter".

How about waiting outside with your D for Dad to come and when you see him pull up go inside and lock the door. Warn your D you're going to do this and why (it's too hurtful to talk to Dad right now). That way D is supervised at all times, no contact with H except by sight.

The house is an interesting twist...sounds like he's not happy, and he's trying to find happiness (if I only lived in a better place). Let him enjoy his house...he still won't be happy without you. Let him find this out...

I understand about having to work out arrangements in the morning for your daughter. Is there anyway that you can ask your boss if you can switch your hours at work, maybe come in a 1/2 hour later and take 1/2 lunch instead of an hour to make up for it?

T-

I adore you and you know I am on your side... but I am worried about the extremes of your plan B... Now I don't think at all that you are trying to be mean to him or anything, but the absolute -not answering- when he asks you something in person, I would not do myself.

I remember an earlier post where I thought you were ignoring him when he spoke to you in your home a few weeks ago in a post where you cooked for D and offered her a plate, but not him.

In my opinion if the line has been crossed in plan b already because he is in your house, on your property, etc.- I would say polite non-relationship talk would be ok.

As far as the relationship goes I would limit it to:
I have to protect myself because I am so hurt by the status of our marriage. If things should change and ow is out of the picture entirely please know I would like to work with you on counseling to see if we can find a way to make this work.

Somehow I think stating the above reason for not talking might help get it through his thick skull... I mean he really does take a while to get things lately in the fog, right? He is fogged.

I do think you stand a very good chance of working this out T!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do think ignoring him as Hope says above is an LB if it is in person. I do think Plan B with a small child is different than Plan B without kids/ or plan b with teens, etc. You must speak to this man, and will have to for a long time, regarding D, etc.... until she is old enough to do this herself.. hopefully by then you and your H will be back together... long time by then...

But when he asks you stuff... IMHO--- be polite and politely answer about your D, money, etc.- reasonable topics... but if it gets into the Relationship, etc.- even small talk.... flirting.... the answer is No, I am sorry I cannot talk to you, I have to protect myself from all the pain.

POLITELY remind your darling WS:
I am in Plan B -if you labeled it that to him, or... I am limiting my contact with you/including conversation, especially regarding our relationship... right now, because it is too pain ful to talk to you. TELL HIM.. it is too pain ful to look at him and that it reminds him of the tenderness and love you shared... briefly, politely, to the point, and then say... If you have NO CONTACT with OW then we can try to work on our M, until then I must protect myself, I am just -too hurt- by all this.

I am proud that he did not discuss the situation with his golfing friends.

T, This is so far from over. But even in Plan B- the rule is NO LB's. Not answering him when he is in earshot is an lb. Your plan b cannot be perfect because of your darling D... but you can... keep the conversation limited to your ok'd topics : D, money, visits.... no contact with ow- and reinforcing why you are limiting your conversation/protecting yourself. Politely, kindly- with dignity and poise.. be a lady.... he is sick and you have to set the rules.. show him you will only accept being treated like you deserve/respected for who you are- his wife of many yrs, the mother of his child.

I am proud of you, and I know how hard it is to know what to do. This is not a nice situation for anyone to experience, much less figure out what to do in. I applaud you for coming here and bouncing around ideas and figuring out what works...

Have you read Boundaries yet T? I know I am going to drive you crazy asking you that? Also I am on antiD's- wellbutrin, believe me it is a wonderful lift.. take all the help you can right now... it will help.

I believe you will be reconciling. Keep believing T- power lies in that alone.

Be kind in the face of his anger. Answer him but tell him why you can't talk if he forces himself on you....

IMHO- I even think offering him a plate kindly that night he wanted one would of been ok, but telling him he could eat with D while you go upstairs or something like that would of been ok... remind him why you can't be there eating with him... he is hurting you with his presence.. it pains you for him to disrecpect you by living apart from you and not properly honoring you and loving you as he promised to do for life.

Show him the prize you are. You hold your dignity, hold your head high, you are a wonderful creature... have you read The RULES - that is one book I so love, reccomended by the wonderful LOR.

I know how hard it is, but it does get better. n I am a miracle in progress- you know that is true.... my h wants to go to the beach/ or something like that with us this weekend. He is even admitting how stupid he has been!- he still has a way to go, but it is getting better. I really think he is starting to hate all that time alone with the kids ,and wants me there too.... It can happen. Let your ws have his responsibility time all alone with his d, and he gets to do the work too- I hope your milaw is not doing the work part for him.... it sounds like she might be... since D only overnites with your ws's parents.... your ws is not taking on full responsibility or experiencing full consequences of being a single dad.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Work on that if you can, tell mil that you want him to handle his part of the parenting/ and if you can ask her in confidence not to enable or caretake responsibiliteis to his d for him... that would be a big step... Now, I know I could be way off here, but I am suspect it could be at least a partial problem... He needs reality to hit him on the head. My h has experienced single dad life as a hard consequence, and I am glad he knows how hard it is to handle kids alone...! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hugs and Hope. YOu have a good weekend and take care of you... ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your friend, Honey

Oops, I saw you talkign about drop offs with parents, in laws... I would not do that. I do not have much time, but I think it would be an lb to him, and I would find a way to make things easier btwn the two of you, with polite interchanges with kids, not ignoring him... he can be taught to politely communicate.... Are you individual counseling? YOu might think about it- if not, weekly support for you.. it is helping me.

I feel sad thinking about his anguish at the idea of inlaw drop offs, etc. I really think a polite- no lb , plan b is in order, not a plan b with vengence which is how he takes no talking at pick up drop off/ and 3rd party involvement I am sure. Do a plan b with polite contact T, JMHO.

Hugs, H

Well, Terri, I, like a lot of others, it seems, read your thread and try to keep up with you - for me, its because your H sounds so much like my H - the nasty anger when his view of the world is challenged, and my fear of him - when you talk about fearing contact with him, because you have no idea what is going to come next out of his mouth, I can completely relate to that. Still seeking helped me enormously to be patient with my H - and although there are still things to consider in our M, which I am still not ready to address, things are so much better now. In my heart, though, I feel my H and I could easily be where you and your H are - if my H were to have left the home, he would probably be behaving now like your H's twin brother.

I understand what Honey is trying to say - that in all your exchanges with H, you should be polite and respectful, not clipped and short, or appear to be angry. I am sure that when you do that, it is out of fear - fear of his temper.

For that reason, I think you should arrange your life so that your contact with him is totally minimized - if you have to talk about arrangements with D, try to do it by e-mail, not by phone. Drop-offs with a third party would be ideal - he has used the times he has seen you at drop-offs to invade your space, invade your privacy and verbally abuse you - there is no good reason why you are obligated to continue to give him the opportunity to treat you this way. Drop-offs with a 3rd party are not a LB in this respect - they are you protecting yourself. Lets face it - his affair and the way he treats you are giant LB's on his part towards you.

It is ENABLING behaviour to continually allow him the opportunity to abuse you, just because you are afraid of offending him, in the interests of "being nice".

I think you are doing so well and I am so proud of you. You have come so far, Terri. You have so much to offer the world, and the best lesson you could teach your daughter is how to stand up for herself. If you do not teach her by example, who will ever?

Hugs to you.
LIR

Terri,
Dr. Harley recommends utilizing a 3rd party for drop-offs in Plan B, so it is acceptable, and with your in-laws available that seems like a good alternative to me.

Or, could you drop D off at H's instead of him coming to you? You'd be more in control, able to drop-off and walk away. Or, is he still unwilling to have D at his place? (which is unreasonable of him of course, but you don't need to point that out.)

If you can't change the conditions of the drop-offs, I'd recommend not ignoring him, but if he stays on topic of your daughter, be polite. If he veers to any other subject, remind him you'd rather not discuss *that* and/or ask him to leave/say goodbye to D.

At this time you aren't really set up for no contact Plan B, which was my problem with B as well. Just don't have any discussions with him that you wouldn't if he already was your X.

I'm sorry this is so tough, but you are finding your way.

Hello everyone. Thank-you. I notice that some of you think I'm better. I am in ways but not so much in others. Wistful. Have I accepted that H loves someone else and it's over for us? No.

However, Plan B does help in many ways. Not to accept but to move forward with less pain.

Had a neighbourhood party on Saturday. I haven't attended in two years. Went with H for 10 years. Hated to go but I did for D's sake...most people just said, "It's good to see you again."

New neighbours asked where my husband was in front of a larger group...I guess because of my ring. I just couldn't mouth the words. After I got up from my chair, my neighbour explained.

But I WENT. They probably missed my H there. Always loved him, the neighbours. He was better than me re:socializing with all of them. Always helpful. Home more than me due to my commute time...I just rode on his coattails.

Sunday, I attended an annual picnic (old friends from high school)...third annual. Eight couple and me with D...it was ok. D enjoyed it. I was a little quiet. It's still hard, I guess, because I miss his presence. I was invited, not him but still...nostalgia kicked in...

I made it through the day. And this morning, I'm more depressed. I guess that's normal. I put on the "happy" pretense for two solid days and now, I'm emotionally exhausted.

Thank-you Honey. I've told you before...you're a sweet person. I've taken your advice on exchanging with kindness. No small talk (I don't allow it)...just thank-you's.

Hi LIR, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I understand what Honey is trying to say - that in all your exchanges with H, you should be polite and respectful, not clipped and short, or appear to be angry. I am sure that when you do that, it is out of fear - fear of his temper. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely and not only for fear of his temper but fear of his hostile and/or negative comments.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you are doing so well and I am so proud of you. You have come so far, Terri. You have so much to offer the world, and the best lesson you could teach your daughter is how to stand up for herself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank-you for your encouragement.

Hi Lor, hope you enjoyed your weekend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or, could you drop D off at H's instead of him coming to you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H still refuses to do this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just don't have any discussions with him that you wouldn't if he already was your X.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will try very hard to do this.

Hugs

<small>[ July 21, 2003, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: Terrified ]</small>

Please bill to terrified...

5.00
for
one bottle of windex and papertowels
Figuring the cost needed to clean my monitor since I just spit my coffee all over it...after reading...

But I WENT. They probably missed my H there. Always loved him, the neighbours. He was better than me re:socializing with all of them. Always helpful. Home more than me due to my commute time...I just rode on his coattails.

NO terrifeid they were probably just glad to see you..I know that shocks you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
.although you are willing to take so much of the blame for your husbands INFIDELITY>..neighbors and others aren't necessarily able to...

they probably think he is a jerk...and they are entitled to their opinion...and probably believe that the even if there are HUGE problems...HE himself could have chosen a different better route....

If they are married...I garuntee most believe this.....

HOw does a liar, cheater, deceiver, child abandoner, mean person become better you...are you holding back information like you're a serial killer???!!!!!
or a puppy kicker??????
or maybe you cut the tags off of matresses and pillow cases??????????????????????????????

I think they miss YOU happy you...and you that should not build or base your happiness on mr. grumpy
for ONE MORE SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terr,
even reconcilliation which is never out of realm of hope...won't happen till you take charge of you find you self value and quit measuring your worth against controlling loser man...no matter how good looking he is....

For as attractive you find him...he finds you just as much....
AND the more you work and believe in yourself the more you will present yourself...even in passing in PLAN B as thus.....

quit measuring your worth against him....please!!!!!!!

people love and care and enjoy being with you because of YOU not because of HIM!!!!!!!!!!!

ugggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
ARK
who likes you and I have never met your husband...
and miracle of miracle..I still like you...in a cyber not so real way....but you know what I mean...

I would love to talk to your husband though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ARI

ANDDDD
another thing while I am on cranky roll...

When was the last time you had a grown up night out....
Why not call inlaws see if they will take daughter over night fri or sat...and not even involve yourself in what responsibility the grumpy dwarf takes in that and GO OUT with GOOD friends who love you...

Do something that makes you feel summery and alive and enjoy

Get out there and see things/do things....

You to recapture some of that freedom you felt in Savannah...
you need to get out there and realize you are you
you are still so lost in measuring each thing as a loss...
Life is to short...not a loss at all
ARK

Hi Terrified:

We're in pretty much the same position except I have NC with WS. My children are older.

GOING OUT to social occasions... I call it COMING OUT OF THE CLOSET. I agree that too much of it can be emotionally exhausting. However, this has been great for my self-esteem. I've been pleasantly surprised in learning that people love ME and generally feel that my WS is a JERK as ARK states. My WS has been hiding out. People don't see him around in the community.

Keep venturing out as much as you can!

T:

I am so glad for you that you made it out socially a few times this past weekend. Good for you!

I had lunch with a Houston mber saturday which was fun, and other than that home cleaning house and organizing- coming out of depression, and whew I have neglected so so much!

Anyway, Keep up the positives! I know it is hard, but I am still believing your h will defog.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Show him how wonderful you are while he is insane... the A will die on it's own soon anyway. And if you are not there for him to vent at, who will get it, precious ow??? I hOpe so!

At work, so bye for now! Hugs, H

Terri,
I was listening to Dr. Laura, and there was a call that reminded me of your H's situation.

The F caller was planning to marry a man she had met 2 years ago, when he spent 6 weeks in the US, he was from someplace in Europe and they had continued to correspond. Dr. L practically had a fit. The woman said, "But I've known him 2 years!"

Dr. L said, "You knew him 6 weeks. You don't know him at all. Anybody can pretend on the phone. If you want to marry this person, move there or he moves here THEN spend a year dating. You do not marry someone under these circumstances because there is nothing real about your relationship."

So, like Dr. L, I don't believe there is anything real about your H's relationship with the OW.

Phone conversations meet very few of the the ENs on the list.

You've been meeting some of your H's needs. In Plan B you don't and HE has to figure out what to do about it.

Oh, and just cuz this was a little funny, and I think you could use a little funny...Sun, H, his dad & I had been boating and afterwards stopped at a resort bar for beers. I was wearing shorts & a tank top over my suit, pony tail, glasses. The bartender looked at me, "can I see your ID?" I grin and say sure, afterall, I'm 43! My H, who is 6 months younger than I am, says "do you need to see mine too?" She looks at him and shakes her head, "just hers." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think he was a little shocked, because he does look younger than our age too.

I'm glad I've been working on that Attractive Spouse EN!

Hello everyone. Hope everyone enjoyed their weekend. D's birthday was on Thursday so it's been pretty busy. Thursday was picture day followed by lunch with grandparents (my IL's included and my treat) at a restaurant. We had a great time. No H but pictures were taken and for a few hours, it was as if we all forgot the reality. Had neice over for sleepover on Thursday night. Niece (my H's sister's daughter) had a great time! Crafts, games...just fun and she didn't want to leave. Friday night, H had a cake with his family at IL's. D was running a low-grade fever and wasn't herself. I dropped her off at IL's in the afternoon. H called three times on my cell phone. One was at 7:00 p.m. to announce that he had bought a "little" cake and would be home before 8:00. Didn't I know that since my MIL had already mentioned it?

It hurt like hell. My D having cake without her mom. Celebrations are not COMPLETELY happy anymore. Always difficult.

My family came on Saturday afternoon. At about 8:30 p.m., I decided to bring D to emerg. Turns out she has a sinus infection. Left emerg at 11:45 pm. Didn't make it to the midnight pharmacy in time...Sunday was her kids' birthday party. I organized everything. H showed up but more as a visitor this year. Didn't have him participate at all. Had one of my close friends husbands help out with my cooler/pizza/cake setup in the party room...had it a place called Adventure Village (rock mountain climbing, mini golf, crazy cars, etc.)

And guess what? H sends me pictures this morning. One is a really nice one of D hugging me after making her wish. Didn't even notice him taking it.

Ark, I'm going to make the cheque payable to "ark terrified-saviour"...you're hilarious!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> HOw does a liar, cheater, deceiver, child abandoner, mean person become better you...are you holding back information like you're a serial killer???!!!!!
or a puppy kicker??????
or maybe you cut the tags off of matresses and pillow cases? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, Okay...I'm guilty only of missing church on Sunday!! (LOL)

Ark, honestly, you add some really useful perspective that I often miss.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would love to talk to your husband though... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One day, I hope that this becomes possible.

But you know what Ark? I guess it's that fear factor of all this time passing without change...it becomes harder and harder to ever remember what we were and what we had. I hold on to things in my mind and my heart but he's put them away conveniently. Out of sight, out of mind...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When was the last time you had a grown up night out.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Savannah was the last time I had an ADULT night out...but you'll be happy to hear that this upcoming Saturday is a huge 40th b-day bash for one of my oldest friends...and they've requested that I be prepared to stay overnight SO I asked my mother to babysit since there's another IL family wedding.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you are still so lost in measuring each thing as a loss... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An amazing statment...I don't want to be, Ark. Really.

And I'm glad you still like me despite everything you know.

Hi Mimi, You sound strong and amazing. I enjoy reading your updates because I experience similar emotions.

Good luck with your strength and your plan.

Hey Honey, How are you? Are you okay? Thanks for your encouragement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Show him how wonderful you are while he is insane </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will try.

Hello Lor, I'd like to listen in on Dr. Laura. When is she aired?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, like Dr. L, I don't believe there is anything real about your H's relationship with the OW. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my heart, I don't think so either. Unfortunately, the fantasy is able to live longer in his mind because she is so far away, don't you think?

Lor, I am so PROUD and HAPPY for you. 42 and being asked for ID??? You go girl...

Love to all