Conqueror,
I am glad you aren't trying to get me to agree with you, because I sure don't. This is one of those times when someone who does not know you personally, has NO idea what is going through my mind. My heart is right with God. Believe me. My heart was trying for 10 months to reconcile, even after a baby from another woman and a pornography addiction. I have prayed about it, I have sought help, I have asked him to get help, and I am fully aware of the own sin in my life and I have asked forgiveness for it. But I WILL NOT stop my life because my ex husband continues to drown in sin. I will not wait for him to come out of it years and years down the road. God can work miracles. I am not God. I am therefore stepping out of the way. It amazes me that you talk about degrees of sin too. Yes, my white lie (just an example) is the same as adultery, because it is all sin, but my white lie caused a whole lot less pain to others then his adultery did. And those consequences have to be carried out. He hurt himself, me, and a lot of other people. He has not repented of it and still does not get it. I get it. I get that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. I get that God wants better for me, he wants me to be in a GODLY marriage, not waiting for an addict to come to his senses.
You sound like someone I would be afraid to know personally, because I feel like you would judge me all the time. I am sorry if that offends you but that is how i feel.

Oops double post

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 11:41 AM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

adgirl:

I'm sorry for your pain, I really am. NO ONE should have to endure such painful things....this is NOT what we were created for.

In God's perfect world

Unfortunately, we DO NOT live in a perfect world, thanks to Adam and Eve (mostly EVE!!) Therefore, the road back into God's Perfect Presence involves things we humans shouldn't have to endure, but they are there. WHy? Cause there is SIN in this place we were all born into.

I know you know this. Why am I repeating it, then? B/c you say things that sound like you believe BECAUSE you are a "child of God" (I assume you are, but can't know that for sure), then God should just clear the way and make your path perfectly straight, with no obstacles, no heartaches, or pain! Sorry, wrong.

There are people who have lived with waaaaay more trials than any of us can even imagine, much less endure. They are peaceful. Why? Cause they have learned to have God's perfect peace, joy, love, etc (ALL the fruits of the Spirit!) in the midst of their trials.

Can I say God wants you to stay in a loveless, depraved M, with a man with depraved mind, habits and other problems? Not any more than I can say He DOESN"T want you to stay there!

None of us can know that. ONLY YOU can determine what God's perfect will is for your life.....and a lot of that is determined by how closely you want to follow Him, how obedient you want to be to Him!

I DO take offense at you telling others, therefore, that they SHOULDN'T stay in horrible M's, just b/c YOU don't think it's right!

I DO beleive God can put us in horrible situations and give us the Grace it takes to stay in it, and be happy, peaceful! It might be all His plan to bring many to Himself.

Should YOU do that? I am not in a position to answer that. That is between YOU and your Lord ALONE.

Conquerer,
Thank you for your insightful posts. I got a lot out of them, and yes, I DO totally agree with them!

God Bless, one and all.

Lupolady,
You don't know me at all either. I didn't say that anyone shouldn't stay in a marriage if God is calling them to. I said that God is not calling me to. Yes I am a Christian, yes I am a strong believer, but I don't believe God wants me to endure any longer the heartache of my marriage, that was never really a marriage anyway since my ex lied to me for 6 years, or kept his addiction a secret. It makes me laugh that you think that because I am a child of God I think my pathway should be straight. That is so wrong. I AM saying that God wants me to have boundaries and that he does not want me to be walked on, but to be free in Him. My ex is in deep sin. It is between him and God. I cannot save him. I do pray for him but I cannot be married to him. I am fully aware that part of being a Christian is going on rocky paths, and I thank God no matter what my circumstances. I am thankful that HE was with me through this trial. I am just thankful he has also released me from it. I am VERY peaceful. I have NO ill will to my ex, but I think he has made poor decisions that he will have to live with. HE did those things. HE has to pay the consequences. I lovebusted sometimes and did things I should not have. I have to pay those consequences too, but instead of sitting on my [censored] and doing nothing, I have changed my life, my attitude and my direction, and i fully depend on Christ to be my navigator. I am not like my ex, who is still wallowing in it, and all I do when I am with him is sink. GOD can only fix that. Not me. I am through playing God, and I am ready to trust in Him and that means getting on with my life. And again, I don't know where you think I have told others NOT to stay in a marriage. I think Jen Brown is the only one that I have specifically told that I would get out if I was her. I AM saying it is dangerous to listen to restoreministries because I believe it is kind of cultish.
God gives us grace, but not always to "stay in it" as you say.

NOW if ANYONE is out there Who DOES know me, could you please help me out here?
Thanks.

Wait a minute, adgirl. You are not getting pelted at all. No one needs to know you to have a discussion about what they believe the Bible says about divorce. The Bible doesn't change from person to person. Conqueror very respectfully gave her opinion of what the Bible says. The issue never was *YOU*. This is not a debate. This is an open give and take about principles in the Bible. You asked for opinions and she respectfully took the time and trouble to give you that opinion.

Instead of thanking her for doing that, you attacked her because you didn't like her opinion. Now, that is very unfair and unkind. No one is picking on you, they are offering their opinions in an attempt to be helpful. We are not your enemies here, but your friends.

Please just take what you need and leave the rest, but don't assault the folks who offer up something you don't like.

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Melody Lane,
I agree, you are not my enemies, you are my friends. And I agree that the Bible does not change from person to person. And I apologize to Conqueror if I attacked you. I did not mean that at all. I only meant, that I feel like God is telling me to get on with my life, and I don't think that my decision in doing that will bring me more misery, and I do not want to continue to live in the pain and agony of waiting for my ex to change his mind. I know some people feel in their hearts that they should and I respect that. I really really do. Because I was there. I had people telling me to leave long before I did. I didn't listen because it was not what God said. Now I feel like God has said, move on my child, you have done all you can, let me do the work. Let it go. So I am just sensitive when I feel second guessed. Again, I apologize if I got into "attack mode". But I don't think I am sinning if I do not continue to wait for my husband and if I remarry one day. I believe it is ok to do that and God will honor that.

Adgirl,

At the risk of getting MelodyLane mad at me again, I have a few things for you to consider.

First, I have an ironclad rule, that I lead my life by: Never ask questions for which you don't want to hear the answers.

Adgirl, you didn't want to hear the other peoples answers. So quit asking.

My second point is that there are various groups of Christians; some take the Bible literally, and others don't. One group IS NOT going to convince the other of the error of their ways.

I think you are going to have to examine your own beliefs, your reading of the Bible, and perhaps the words of your own ministers in reguard to your question.

There appear to be a fair number of people intimately familiar with the Bible posting on this site. Yet, for all of their familiarity there seems to be disagreement. IF you beleive in a given religion, then you cannot pick and chose the parts you like, but alot of the teachings are in the form of parables, which leaves some things subject to interpretation.

You have to go with what you believe.

Those are my thoughts on this matter. Please go back and read my rule at the top of the post. I think it would serve you well when asking for theological advice.

God Bless,

JL

JL, well spoken, as usual. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

JL,
I knew I asked for your help for a reason.
You are exactly right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I guess I didn't realize I was asking something that would get me so fired up- or maybe I did, and fell in the trap anyway. My bad.
Thanks again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi

I have struggled with all these biblical passages over the last 2 years. As a chrisian who founf the rejoice ministries site before this one I held to the belief for a time that I only had to hang on to God and pray and my H would return. However as time went on I felt less able to do this. I still pray that my H will be reconciled with God but felt strongly that God wanted me to let go of my H. It was after a chuch service that I felt peace to start dv proceedings so that I could have aultery as th stated reason- in accordance ith scripur. Here in UK the BS can file for dv on grounds of adultery in the 1st 2 years but after 2 years the WS can file on grounds o 2 years separation. We were 1 week short of the 2 years sep when I filed.
I have had Gods peace ever since that what I did was right. I also have felt peace that at the right time it would alright to seek a new relationship/marriage. I can't give verses for this I find so many of those quoted are open to interpretation but know I want to live a godly life as a wife.

Jante

Jante,
One site I found helpful was www.newlife.com. In their archive of questions and answers, someone asked about remarriage. They responded with:
"Most biblical scholars I have taught with believe permission to remarry is implied in Matthew 5 and Mathew 19 and I Cor. 7. For example, in Matthew 19:9, Jesus clearly says, "whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery. It seems clear that it is okay to remarry once the spouse (or ex-spouse) has sex with someone else.

I agree with this and believe that God would bless you, and me, with a GODLY husband if we pray to Him and it is His will. If that is restoration with my ex-husband he will show me that, or if it is someone else, He will show me to him too, as long as I am praying for His will to be done. I believe if it was not his will, that he would give me the spiritual gift of celibacy. I am sorry for your divorce also, and best wishes to you.

<small>[ July 09, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

Conqueror: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The terminology in Matthew 5:32 (known as the exception clause) is fornication. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, no, not really. That is one meaning of the word, and that does imply what you said, which is that it was intended only in those cases where the woman had had sex before marriage, which was discovered either before or immediately after the wedding. However, the term can also mean "sexual immorality" in general, which would include adultery, so what exactly Jesus meant is open to argument. Your interpretation is possible, but not required, by the text. I have also heard it argued that Jesus gave this exception because when one consumates a relationship with someone else, they have already divorced their spouse, spiritually speaking. This view is consistent with the constant Biblical comparisons between adultery and idolatry - which is putting someone or something which is not God in God's place. By putting someone else in your spouse's place, your marriage no longer exists. A divorce at that point is simply an acknowledgement of reality. I do not really look at my marriage as "recovering". My marriage died, as far as I am concerned. What our MC calls the "second half", I consider to be a whole new ball game. Maybe we should change our aniversary.