star*fish, right now my W is kissing my tush. She seems to be doing everything she can to make it right and to repair our M. She has read the Harley stuff and even posts at the boards as well.

I guess my probelm is holding on to the anger for having an A so soon after getting M, filing for Dv and shooting for the moon and now coming back when I didn't want that anymore. She has been very respectful and understanding of my feelings and either gives my the space or the help to work through my feelings.

Just last week I wanted to continue the Dv papers, but TMCM said "Don't make decisions when you are in a high emotional state." That was a very interesting comment because that is exactly what I told W last December before she filed for Dv. She filed anyway, however.

I am back on the Anti-D's, maybe that and some time is all we need. The good time are getting more frequent but the bad times when they do come are getting stronger.

BTW, I love your sig line!

STTSI:

doesn't your W still post here?

I think you need 2 work on forgiving her for what she's "done" because it sounds like you're having good quality time 2gether right now. Your resentment is consuming you. Even2ally, it'll destroy your M, 2. But only if you let it.

Spacecase has said that the one book that helped him the most was Colin Tipping's book about Radical Forgiveness. I haven't read this yet, but I intend 2!

From Colin Tipping's book, posted by SC:

"Yet forgiveness always seems so difficult – almost super-human. We know we should forgive, but somehow we simply can’t do it. We  consider people who forgive as verging on sainthood. Why is this? What makes it so arduous? Why do we find it so hard to let go of toxic emotional baggage?

The answer lies in our powerful attachment to the victim archetype. We have lived out of this archetype for eons. It pervades our mass  consciousness at every level and we have come to believe that victim consciousness is absolutely fundamental to the human condition. Jesus was the embodiment of forgiveness, yet we have even made him a victim – the ultimate victim in fact. We will not give it up. Why?..."

-2long

2MCM:

"[I know what you're probably thinking, TMCM has finally taken a lethal dose of caffeine and has totally fried his last remaining brain cells (though some here would argue that this happened long ago). )]"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TMCM- What you said is very deep and requires some serious thought on my part.

My first instinct is to say yes you are right, it is petty and I should move on. How do I do that?

I want to move past this part of my life but I can't. Maybe it is because the victim role does give me the upperhand and I like it more than being an equal. Maybe I just need to grow up and get over it.

Part of me still wonders if she has some ulterior motive for coming home besides her love for me. Like maybe money?

Part of me still wants to guard my heart and my feelings. And holding on to that anger helps me do that. It gives me reason or a justification for my feelings.

You know what my other sigline said?

"I have the plenty of time to divorce my husband. I can divorce him tommorow, or everyday for the rest of my life. I have very little time to save my marriage, so I think I'll do that first."

STTSI:

"Maybe it is because the victim role does give me the upperhand and I like it more than being an equal."

But this "holier-than-thou" perspective isn't real. Like I said on another's thread recently, you and your W are 50% responsible for the decline of your M. She may be responsible for her A, but that has nothing 2 do with the condition of your M. Think about it.

"Maybe I just need to grow up and get over it."

You need 2 grow up and get over it. But do it right, don't just whitewash it.

"Part of me still wonders if she has some ulterior motive for coming home besides her love for me. Like maybe money?"

Sounds like she loves you, from posts of hers that I've read. And about your second point: give her the money, if that's what she's "after" and you love her and believe in her love for you. What can you lose? Money, I guess. What good is that? You can't take it with you... ...but her love could sustain you.

"Part of me still wants to guard my heart and my feelings. And holding on to that anger helps me do that. It gives me reason or a justification for my feelings."

Ah yes. Resentment at its best!!! Ain't it wonderful? Of course it isn't.

"Such knowledge is worth more than any fortune, Cookie!" -7up commercial, making fun of the original Kung Fu series.

-2long

STTSI-

I wish I could give you all the knowledge that I have gained throughout my whole ordeal. I wish for one minute that you could see inside the Mrs. head.

I can personally tell you from the WS perspective that money is not the reason that she came back. When a WS leaves, usually the anger has consumed her to the point where she just lets go. The appeal of the A simply becomes to strong and the addiction takes over.

Once that chemical high is gone, they start to see in little glimpses that what they are doing is wrong. They start to process their anger, and they're left with - yes you guessed it - the truth!

The light goes on and they realize, well wait a minute, I had some accountability too. I'm blaming him for MY issues. I don't hate him, in fact, I love him. God what a fool I've been.

Don't believe me? Poll the Ws's on this and see what THEY say.

I think that the problem might be that you need to step into your W's mindset and look at this as if she were seeing it. What feels right? What feels wrong. Investigate your thoughts from a different angle. Pick them apart until you start to see it differently.

An example- X is suing me for 100% of the house. I can choose to be resentful. Instead I see it from his point of view. He's been hurt, betrayed, lied to, etc. Now I come in asif it's nobody's tomorrow and say: "I want 50%". His reaction - you deserve 0%. Resenment about this will keep me stuck. Instead, I say- whatever happens is going to happen. I can't change that. I can only deal with what happens right this moment....

Just food for thought.

I hope things get better.

Hugs

I hope that in no way, shape or form that my last post was misconstrued as me telling you to 'quit your yappin' an' get over it'. No, your feelings are very valid, normal and part of the healing process BUT there is a danger that if you let the resentment fester for too long without adding some fresh and positive perspective (like I hope my last post was for you), it could destroy you emotionally. One thing that helped me a lot to overcome my resentment for my XW was to seek out something humorous every day, and even though I no longer have that resentment, I still look for the funny side of life every day. Why not try it?

star*fish - I do remember you old sig line. In fact I told my W about that line last fall. To no avail. <sigh>

2long - "But this "holier-than-thou" perspective isn't real. Like I said on another's thread recently, you and your W are 50% responsible for the decline of your M. She may be responsible for her A, but that has nothing 2 do with the condition of your M. Think about it."

I have said the same thing before. I am just as responsible for our M being in the place it is. I can't take responsibility for the A but I do need to take responsibility for the condition of our M pre-A.

"You need 2 grow up and get over it. But do it right, don't just whitewash it."

So how do I get over it without holding it all in and covering it up? Good times together?

"And about your second point: give her the money, if that's what she's "after" and you love her and believe in her love for you. What can you lose? Money, I guess. What good is that? You can't take it with you... ...but her love could sustain you."

I have given her too much of the first and I guess I am afraid to let her love me and me love her again. My fears, valid? I don't know.

Kily - Thanks for checking in! It is always nice to hear from you. I wish I could get inside my W's head and know what goes on in there. If there are any males out there who understand what a woman thinks I would like to know how they did that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <I am hiding under my desk for the 2X4 that is coming soon!>

Kily, your input on the perspective in interesting and insightful. Like I said before I am trying to find logic in an ill-logical action. That is my problem.

TMCM- Don't worry I was not upset by your reply to me. Sometimes I need people to slap me in the head to wake me up and open my eyes. I used to always look for the funny things in life. That ended last fall when the A started. Maybe I should start that again!

On a brighter side, W and I had a great weekend together. Saturday we had a nice picnic and on Sunday we moved more of her stuff back in the house and got her part of the office set-up.

STTSI;
I know how you are feeling, as your exact words resonated in my head for a long time. I had had the unfortunate experience of already having "survived" a previous affair of my W's, about 15 years ago, so I guess I had a clearer perspective than many on what happens in the future "if...."
What I learned from that experience, (and to the detriment of my marriage I did not learn this until much, much later), was that unless one can truly forgive, whatever modicum of resentment, anger, self-righteousness, "power", or whatever other feeling our ego generates when it says "I am right and you are wrong" that remains only serves to virtually guarantee the demise of the relationship in the future.

Why do I say this? I say it because in "processing" this latest affair, one of the conclusions I reached was that, in fact, I had NOT truly forgiven my W after the first one! And that even though I "acted" as if I had, and all outward appearances indicated that, the truth is there was resentment, holier-than-thou, upper hand, and all kinds of other nastiness like that beneath much of my treatment and interaction with her in the intervening years. So clearly, NOT forgiving in the "proper" way, contributed greatly to creating the marital conditions wherein another affair was possible, if not inevitable.

Thus, my conclusion in the process of dealing with THIS affair was clear: there MUST be total and complete forgiveness on my part if this marriage is even going to have a chance. Never mind the other things that have to be worked out for now, THIS one MUST be worked out.

So having told you a longer story than I originally intended, I think it is important that you think about the future of your relationship a bit, and perhaps contemplate the possible repercussions of NOT forgiving; truly forgiving and giving up any and all sense of superiority, righteousness, etc. If not for the immediate benefit of saving your marriage, certainly for the benefit of the future relationship and for creating a more nurturing environment in which that relationship can thrive and not take the paths this one did.

In case you're interested in this particular form of "forgiveness" which worked very well for me, here's a link to the basics of it:
Radical Forgiveness Theory and Philosophy

Blessings!

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Spacecase,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had had the unfortunate experience of already having "survived" a previous affair of my W's, about 15 years ago, so I guess I had a clearer perspective than many on what happens in the future "if...."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How unusual that you would say this....it is my exact experience too. I remember when I first came here and folks would say "How can you heal from 2 affairs! I can't do 1!" But the truth is, that like you.....I know what it really takes to survive it...having already done it. I BELIEVE that it can be done...because I have done it before. What doesn't kill us....does make us stronger I guess... It's not the kind of knowledge I wish I had...but in this instance, I had hope where many others without it had none.

The rest of your post really mirrors my thoughts as well.

Space- I will look at the link you provided. Hopefully it will give me the steps I need to start that process. Like everyone says here, I need to forgive and let go of the anger, I just don't know how to start.

Space and star- Wow, two affairs!? I will again ask the question, how do you do it? I can't seem to forgive one A, let alone two.

All of your thoughts and advice have really put things in perspective for me.

Thanks!

I know! I know! How about every time you get depressed about the A, your W gives you a zap with one of those electronic stun guns? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Soon your mind won't even go there (if she doesn't accidentally electrocute your brain cells in the process <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

<small>[ July 07, 2003, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

STT,

read this:

Forgiveness

"To err is human, to forgive divine."
- -Alexander Pope (1688 1744)

Someone else has hurt all of us, in one-way or another. While it is easy to forgive a friend for the slight distress we feel over a phone call that was not returned, it is not so easy to forgive those who have harmed us in a major way. The greatest hurt seems to come from those who play the most significant roles in our lives. The enormity of the hurt may lead us to conclude that we can never forgive the one who has hurt us. To forgive or not is one of our life choices. It is important for our own emotional wellness to understand that it is a choice, and a choice with consequences.

Consider this question-if the harm we have experienced leads us to a life dominated by unresolved anger, a negative image of ourselves and an inability to trust, are we allowing the one who has hurt us to continue to have power over us? When we have sleepless nights cycling and recycling thoughts about old hurts, when we seethe with anger, when we ask questions repetitively that seem to have no answers, we continue to suffer the consequences of being hurt.

There are many ways of being hurt. In some cases we are the unwitting victim and at other times we participate in allowing ourselves to be hurt by building expectations that make us vulnerable or placing our trust in the wrong places. Whatever the nature of the damage done to us, it is a potential source of learning. We can allow the hurt to keep us down as we continue to play the role of the victim- or we can learn to overcome it, try to make sure that it never happens again, and, if it does occur again, learn to deal with it more effectively.

Here are some of the ways that people are hurt - How many ways have you been hurt?

Unmet expectations - We are disappointed when we build expectations that are dashed. We don't always get what we want, and this is to be expected. When we build our hopes on achieving a major goal, however, like not getting the promotion we had hoped for or losing the love we had so longed for, the result can be catastrophic. The hurt can be enormous.

Humiliation - When we are ridiculed by others especially during childhood, as often happens when children are called demeaning names or when our pride is wounded, as might happen when a supervisor at work berates us in front of others, the assault on our dignity may impel us to hide, put up impenetrable walls, and vow never to be hurt again.

Rejection - When we are rejected or abandoned, we experience loss but perhaps more important is the fact that we hear the message that we are not good enough. We have to deal with grieving the loss of an important emotional bond and our self-image is assaulted as well. The fear of abandonment is a powerful force in the lives of many people. This fear can have a strong impact on the way they relate to the world and other people.

Deception - Other people may manipulate or lie to us, using us to further their own goals. This occurs, for example, when we are asked to keep family secrets or to deny real problems. Not only do we learn to distrust others, but we might also come to distrust our own judgment for falling prey too the deceptions of other people. This harms our ability to trust, and our self-esteem as well.

Abuse - We hear about abuse frequently in the media these days. Many people who suffered from abuse during their childhoods go straight into an abusive adult relationship. The consequences are enormous for the victims. We feel low, unable to share with others, and suspect that others must somehow know about our horrible secrets. We are left with a sense of powerlessness and a legacy of guilt and shame.

Choosing to Forgive
Forgiving the one who caused us harm may seem like the last thing we would want to do. After all, by not forgiving, we can hold onto the belief that we have some power over the one who has hurt us and that we can therefore prevent the harm from ever happening again. Or we may be so invested in playing the role of victim that to forgive would mean giving up a larger part of how we define ourselves. We may feel that evil should never be forgiven.

An important point to keep in mind, however, is that when we forgive, we are doing it for ourselves, not for the other person. Forgiving is one way of letting go of old baggage so that we can move on with our lives.

There are no deadlines for choosing the option of forgiveness. Forgiving is a highly personal act, and it will not happen until we are ready to let go of the old hurt and move on in our lives with a sense of personal empowerment. We must prepare for it, and this requires a deep look into our lives. Above all, it is a choice and some people may choose not to forgive at all. This is a perfectly valid personal decision in certain situations.

"If we really want to love, we must learn how to forgive." - Mother Theresa

The Nature of Forgiveness

Forgiveness is not a way of forgetting the past. Indeed, if we have been harmed, we should not forget it. We can learn from the past about how to avoid being harmed in the future. Nor is forgiveness a way of exonerating the one who has hurt us. We recognize that the harm did happen, that the other person is responsible for this and must come to terms with their own guilt. When we forgive, we are not sacrificing anything or giving up our sense of self-worth. Indeed, we are doing just the opposite by taking a stand that says that we are strong and finally free of playing the role of victim. Forgiveness is a way of declaring our integrity.

Forgiveness is a way of saying, It s time for healing. The pain of the past should now be put behind me. Thus, forgiving is a reflection of self-assertion and positive self-esteem. It means that we have better things to do in life than continuing to live under the influence of the one who has caused us pain. Forgiveness implies that we no longer need to hold grudges we no longer need self-pity or hatred, and we declare our independence from victim hood. Forgiveness signifies breaking the cycle of pain and abuse, giving up the belief that the other person should hurt as much as we do. It means abandoning the myth that if we hurt the other person, it will make us feel better. To forgive implies giving up the unrealistic hope that an apology will have the same meaning to the one who has hurt us as it has for us. It tells us that we are moving our energy from the negative to the positive.

Forgive: a verb meaning to give up resentment against or desire to punish - Webster's Dictionary

A Forgiveness To Do List

*Understand fully that forgiveness does not mean that it is all right for the aggressive behavior to ever be repeated. Forgiveness is meant for past behavior that was unacceptable.

*Give up the unrealistic hope that the one who hurt us will apologize, answer your questions or be able to explain why he or she hurt you. Even if apologies or answers were forthcoming, they would not alleviate the pain. This person s views, and depth of insight, will differ from your own.

*Understand that the pain is all yours, not the other person s. When we forgive, it is for the purpose of dealing with our own pain.

*Make up a list of the specific things that were done to you, which you have decided to forgive. This means acknowledging and grieving the losses that have resulted from being hurt, and this may generate potent feelings of anger, sadness and fear. (These intense feelings may be an indicator that you may need to work more on your losses before you are ready to forgive, and the help of a supportive person a therapist or a trusted friend may be needed as you progress through this experience.)

*See if there were any positives about the relationship. In some cases there may not be anything positive but if they do exist, acknowledging them could help you to move toward a more compassionate view of the relationship.
Write a letter to the one who has hurt you (this is a letter that you will never send). Write freely about your hurt and anger, but include any positive feelings you may have about the relationship. If it feels right to you, acknowledge that the one who has hurt you may have been doing the best he or she knew how to do at the time, or perhaps had been strongly influenced by his own upbringing. (If you don't want to write a letter, imagine having a dialogue with the one who has hurt you.) Or engage in role-playing exercise with a therapist.)

Create a ritualized separation ceremony which ends the link between you and the act that hurt you. For example, you might burn your letter and lists and thenscatter the ashes.

You are now free to live your life unburdened by the pain of your past hurt.

Celebrate that freedom.

I am wishing you a time of reflection and moments of peace.

Donna Bellafiore

Thank you to my friend TMCM, and all others who have given my H advice today! I have more to say, but will do so later...

Quality time with the H now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

STTSI,

This is all fantastic stuff you're getting here. This thread, you'll notice, became as much about forgiveness as resentment, so you can almost see how the two really do go hand in hand.

First off, sorry I haven't gotten to you sooner to see how you were doing. Sorry to hear about the bumps on your ride lately, but happy to hear that you have had a nice weekend.

I put myself in your shoes after reading this post of yours to try and figure out how I would handle it. I think a few things jumped out at me though that told me that you can and will get through this. First off, I noticed you said you were back on the anti-D's. I also can see that you were not feeling too great about the marriage, thinking of starting the divorce up again, etc.

And I think you realize that the main reason for those two things was because of the resentment you carry with you.

Now, you've come here asking us how you can let it go. And I hate to burst the bubble, but I don't think anyone here can make a miracle post that is going to make you let go of the resentment. It's something that you need to come to on your own. Sort of a peaceful feeling you come to, a feeling of calm in your mind. Sort of like when you've had a horrible few weeks at work, then head to a peaceful spot and just sit in silence, and unwind. You need to unwind on a much larger scale.

I know I am carrying resentment towards my W right now. It's lessening but it's still there. And if my W, like yours, expressed interest in coming home, I first would have to make the decision: Do I want to work on this marriage or not? Your answer to that was yes, you do.

So, now that you've taken that step, it's her job to help with your recovery. But we make the mistake that the WS has to do MORE of the work because they are the ones that strayed. Our job is to let go of the resentment. And forgive.

But again, how? For me, the answer I think is this: If my W comes back to me, and I still love her, I owe her a chance. And as long as I resent her, I'm not giving her that chance. And I'm also making every moment harder for me. Probably even harder than when she was gone. Look at how you've been feeling lately. And ask yourself what GOOD has come from your resentment.

Has it made you love W any more? Has it brought you closer together? Has it made you sleep better at night? Smile more?

My guess is that your resentment is doing just the opposite of all that to you. I think once we can understand and realize that resentment is doing nothing good for us at all, we can have an easier time letting it go.

ALS

Ok- Some things that I would like to touch on for a few minutes... please.

H does hold a lot of anger and resentment towards me - Anger management classes - would that help???

CoffeeMan - your comment about what would he do if he was told that I only had one week to live gets to me... H asked me a few weeks ago if I found out that OM had died, would I go to his funeral? I said no. I think that there comes a point in life when you have to let go of some of the hurt and move past it. I know **WAY** to many people who hold onto anger and resentment for too long. I doesn't get them anywhere!!!

Without knowing for sure, I think that during that week, H would forgive me and move past it. I was always told, live every day like it is your last... tell your loved ones that you love them, you never know if this will be the last time you get to see/talk to them. So, thank you for making that poing to H.

2long & star*fish - you both have given some really good advice here! Thank you both for that. It is good to know that we have friends here who can help us in our darker times!

Kily - thanks to you for chiming in here.. you bring up some wonderful points!!! It is always good to have a ws point of view.

star*fish - Ahhh, yes... To err is human, but to forgive is divine! Yes, we have all made mistakes, and I know that I am paying for mine.

Please continue to give my H advice here. I appreciate the help that is found here.

Thank you all!

Mrs. STTSI

Gotta run off to work today. Unfortunately I won't be able to surf from work like yesterday so I won't respond until tonight.

Anyone else please feel free to chime in with their questions and comments or feel free to comment on what my W has said.

When I get back tonight I will address everyones comments.

Thanks for the input!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong>Space- I will look at the link you provided. Hopefully it will give me the steps I need to start that process. Like everyone says here, I need to forgive and let go of the anger, I just don't know how to start.

Space and star- Wow, two affairs!? I will again ask the question, how do you do it? I can't seem to forgive one A, let alone two.

All of your thoughts and advice have really put things in perspective for me.

Thanks!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that as we really begin to understand what forgiveness is about, and I'm NOT talking about the traditional Judeo-Christian definition of forgiveness here, several things become apparent. To begin with, real forgiveness is very, very different from what we have been taught by our churches and temples, and like so many other things we learn here, it is probably counter-intuitive at first.

First of all, forgiveness is for US, for the forgiver, and most definitely NOT for the forgiven. (The forgiven reaps benefits too, but those are the after-effect or by-product of what we do for US). More on this here: Forgiveness is a Gift you give yourself

In truth, with real forgiveness the forgiven doesn't even necessarily know he/she has been forgiven. That is how much forgiveness is really for us, and not for them. Bear in mind too, that forgiveness and reconciliation are two different things. To reconcile with someone you have forgiven, there has to be a mutual exchange, in which case the forgiven has to acknowledge the hurt, show remorse, etc. There's a very good description of that "transaction" here: Forgiving The Unforgivable (Part I)

Without getting into a very long explanation, and because I am certainly not an "expert", I will describe the second part of these apparent dichotomies as follows.

In any good forgiveness process there are two elements which become apparent pretty early on: first, we must forgive OURSELVES before we can forgive others! We are way too harsh on ourselves, way too over-critical and way to self-punishing. As we begin to see this, when we're willing to really and honestly look in the mirror and see, to see that we are just human, fallible, imperfect and selfish like everyone else, that we have done the best we could with what we had...we ALSO begin to have the capacity to see others like that more! Which allows us to be more fogiving, more understanding, more compassionate.

The other thing we run into, and this is getting into areas that we may want to, but don't need to get, and this is an area where we'll have considerably different feelings and beliefs, is the possibility that what we have attracted into our lives has been of our own making. In a more philosophical, perhaps deeply spiritual way we may see this as bringing into our lives those things that our soul knows we have to learn...and like most things, these things apparently look like terrible things, but as we see them in a different perspective and as time shows us, it turns out they truly are great gifts. This, of course, you don't need to go along with, and many won't want to. But there's a reason people talk so much about there being good in all the things we see as bad. And I think we all have examples of this in our lives we can draw on. (Like when we lost a wonderful job, and we're angry, hurt, desperate...only to end up, a few months later on, with an even better one. And other things like that.)

A dear friend from this forum asked me a few days ago just how I am able to treat my wife so well and with so much love now that we're divorced, and this is what I answered:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> LOL!!! The funny thing is, it takes no effort whatsoever. Again, it's simple...but not easy!

I love her, always have and always will.
She did not do anything TO me, much less to intentionally hurt me or us.
She did the best she could with what she had/has, as I did.
She felt she was doing what she needed to do to be happy, as I was doing.
So much good has come of this for me, that I can't possibly harbor ill feelings.
And I'd rather have her in my life than not, as that way I can continue to show her love, care, compassion...AND because if one day she realizes any of this herself, I want to be around.

So how else could I possibly treat her?!?!?!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this should answer both your questions...

And to Ms. STTST; It brings me great joy to see you are here, side by side with your H. I wish my W had done that, as we may have saved our marriage. But more importantly; forgive him too...this process of forgiveness is somehting you should both give yourselves.

Blessings and joy!

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

Here's something from Foreverhers inspirational thread titled Timely story for days when things seem bleak :

To forgive is to set the prisoner free, and then discover the prisoner was you.

<small>[ July 08, 2003, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>