</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want and need to know if my H has gone away with another woman. Why is that so wrong??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not wrong at all, afterall you are still his W and he is still your H.

Why don't you go talk to your in-laws to find out how they're doing and to find out what's happening with your H. If they see that you cared enough to visit them, they just might offer you support and much needed info as to what's happening with your H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forgive me if I don't listen very well and this question has already been answered.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You never do, but that's why we love whacking you over the head with our virtual 2x4's. Instead of whack-a-mole, we play whack-a-Jen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I am sorry for my instability everyone. I will just repeat over and over to myself that I don't need to know where he is or what he's doing or with who, that he isn't important, I am, and to forget about him.

I've stopped Dv proceedings for him and has anything changed? No. In fact he's left town without a trace. Our M doesn't mean much to him. I wish I hadn't stopped the Dv proceedings. I wish I was free and I could go on and live my life, and move forward.

Jen

I'm screwed. If I do contact my H or his mom to find out the whole truth, it's bad. If I don't find out, I go nuts, and that's bad. Even if I try to keep busy doing other things, I will still want to know, and it will still tug away at my consciousness.

Why don't you read a book, watch TV, call a friend, pray or exercise?

I'll be brutally honest, I don't want to go to alanon. A public meeting like that isn't for me.

Really? How many times have you tried it? How many times have you asked for 'public' opinion- from people like us who don't even know you in person, but who try to help you anyway?

Howcome so many people on MB feel entitled to know where their WS is, what they're doing and who they're with, and b/c I was dumb enough to move out and separate from my H (at his request), I am not entitled to know these things? Or perhaps even I shouldn't even want to know these things?

Because they have always been the BS, and because they need to know if the marriage is salvageable and if the spouse is being honest. They also may be in Plan A which entitles them to know. You have chosen not to go to Plan B but you certainly are NOT in Plan A. Your spouse thinks he can trample on you because you WERE the WS. You weren't 'dumb enough' to move out either. What were you going to do? Invite the OW in? You have every right to want to know these things. But what does going crazy about it accomplish?

I know after doing those personality tests online that it's simply part of my personality that I need to be able to DO something, it's part of my need for CONTROL, it makes me feel worthwhile to be accomplishing something, and it makes me feel less than completely worthwhile as a person if I have to sit by and try to occupy myself and forget about my H altogether. I was good at that for long stretches here and there when I was busy enough to not think about him, but I do have time on my hands now, c'est la vie, I can't shut it out of my head.

Simply part of your personality huh? so that means it can't change? I will tell you, I was a pretty much control freak for a long time. I have had to work HARD, da*n hard, to change that, and it takes going totally against what I feel to change it. But it is worth it. Because I am only in control of me this way, and not other people. It makes you feel worthwhile to accomplish something? Ok what are you accomplishing by trying to control another person? hmmmm. Heartache? tears? frustration? anger? Sounds fun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I guess I should stop asking people for help. I never like the advice I get (look after you Jen, stop focussing on your H, let go and let God, etc), because, even if it is good advice and it's what's best for me, following it doesn't change anything.

Maybe you should stop asking if you don't think it changes anything. What is what you are doing changing? Oh yeh, it is making you more miserable.

I want and need to know if my H has gone away with another woman. Why is that so wrong?? Forgive me if I don't listen very well and this question has already been answered.

It isn't 'wrong'. It is just pointless. Doesn't the last year give you enough information?

Sigh- yep, I had to get out the 2x4s.

Thanks for the 2x4s adgirl, I probably need them. Heck my best friend just gave me sh*t too, telling me to snap out of it, that this isn't me, etc.

I was right to file for Dv based on the "evidence" of the past year, and should've just gone ahead with it, and not let my H manipulate me. Now I have to wait for him to get home from holidays to move forward with things again.

I just called my MIL, and left her a message saying : </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was just wondering if you would be at all comfortable with you and me getting together sometime in the next couple of days to visit. If that would be okay, give me a call back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I'm leaving that up to her. If nothing else it would be good to see her. She was like my 2nd mom for 12+ years, it's stupid that I've cut her out of my life b/c I am afraid of upsetting my H. I should've learned that lesson after my FIL died without me seeing him for months b/c I was so afraid of upsetting my H. I need to know not only if she can tell me anymore about my H's whereabouts, but also if he and I can't work things out if she wants anymore to do with me.

Jen

Jen ....

What is today's goal?

Pep

Damn, just had great advice and lost it...Will try again....

First off, I have been there, the phone calls "just to see", the inquisitive moments, feeling out of control, almost like you are going to crawl out of your own skin....Can't say when that will change....I am 24 hours into my no contact and going CRAZY!!!!

But my advice is this: do not call him if you can help it! Wait until he gets home and make time with him (or even call him JUST to see if you can get together when he gets home from his trip). Then sit down with him-heart to heart, what does want from this R, why you stopped the D, what you want, how his behaviour is hurting you etc.

Calling his Mom is fine-(I am close to my MIL), but that is still her son, you will need to talk with only her S best interest. You want to work on this, and hope you can etc....

Take care, e-mail me at home if you want....I'll be thinking of you...
D

Jen,
First of all, I'm always amazed and a bit 'jealous' at the attention your threads get! (said with a wink, but jeesh!) You get more replies in one day than most of us do in a much, much longer time. That being said, I adore you just the same and think you're wonderful!

My advice to you is to not call. Don't call, plain and simple. ( I know you did, but my advice is still that!) You need to accept something, and that is that right now you are supposed to feel great pain and misery. Go with it, and learn from it. Your answer is not to call this man. He's already shown you what he's about. Do what you need to do for you, and leave this alone. Get out of the game, so to speak.

GF, the biggest agony of my life has been my divorce following my affair. The hard part is that I know I brought it on myself, by messing around. I've suffered other huge family tragedies, but this is a horrible pill I have to swallow every day.

My divorce was final almost a year ago. It isn't easy YET. I still love the man, just as you love your man.

I've respected my exH's wishes. I leave him alone. I'm working on me, and trying my BEST not to let this consume me.

I vote for you focusing on something else for the summer. I take it you're not teaching summer school. Perhaps you should volunteer somewhere...anything to get your mind off of this stuff. I know that too much time off is not good for me, and perhaps you're the same as me in this department.

Please, take this as concerned advice, not being critical here. I want you to find happiness, Jen. You will but you need to focus on you, God, a greater purpose...and let go of all this with your husband.

Take care,
H_P

Pep: What's today's goal? It was to find a good way to phrase my questions and/or message to my H, since he seems to have left town with GF #2. (See previous posts.) Now I'm just trying hard to to waste my time thinking and crying about him when I can't do a thing about him or our relationship with him off wherever he is off too.

zacharysmom: I am not going to call him again. If he bothers to listen to his voice mail (I know he'll check it daily at least, whenever we went away we always had our cell phone on in case the family called with some emergency, especially when he has grandparents in their 80s), maybe he'll call me back, maybe he won't. My MIL called me back when I was out for a walk, and said sure we can get together anytime, just call first to see that she's home, so I will likely try to get together with her tomorrow or the day after. I know what you mean about having to remember that she only has her son's interests at heart, but I am going to ask her if there's anything I should know about who John is travelling with and how serious his relationship is with GF#2.

hopefulperson: Thanks for "adoring me", I need all the affection I can get! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Yeah, he has shown me what he's all about, he's all about manipulating me and making me feel my guilt full force all the time and not letting me get on with my life, but doing whatever he pleases. I never should've stopped the Dv proceedings, we should've ended it in June.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You need to accept something, and that is that right now you are supposed to feel great pain and misery. Go with it, and learn from it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know about the "supposed to feel great pain and misery" part....I don't think I'm supposed to feel great pain and misery. I've had enough of it. I've certainly learned that I will never betray someone I love like I did ever again, it hurts me and them too much, it tore my whole world and life plan apart.

I'm so sad to hear that you still love your H and are struggling a year after the Dv was final. That's got to be so hard. I see what you say about respecting his wishes and leaving him alone. I was trying to do that, but when I found out he left town w/o telling me it really upset me, so I left him that message. I can't make volunteer committments, as I'll be out of town off and on myself. I am going away to visit a friend at the end of the week for a while, and that will be a huge help to my sanity, keeping me occupied and away from the loneliness of my apt. In fact, for the next 3 days, I have things planned with friends, so I won't be as idle as I was today.

All: believe me, I know I need to focus on me, and I'm going to try to do that. I just feel really duped by my H today.

Oh yeah, and "great" news, my SIL is pregnant, and gets to have a baby and name it after my FIL....I was supposed to be the one to have the first baby, but that won't happen now. I am going to try to be happy for her of course, but it still hurts that she is in that place in life and now I am not. Originally we were both trying to get pregnant and were going to be moms together.

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen:I'm screwed. If I do contact my H or his mom to find out the whole truth, it's bad. If I don't find out, I go nuts, and that's bad. Even if I try to keep busy doing other things, I will still want to know, and it will still tug away at my consciousness.

I went three days without a single tear, and here I am back at square one, in tears and hurting like crazy.

Orchid: Jen, refocus. You don't have to 'perform' or 'conform' for anyone but yourself. You have had the same need to know feelings before? How have your felt after you found out what you previously thought you 'needed' to know? What satisfaction did that knowledge give you? Did it strengthen you, help you heal and move forward?

Or....did that info set you back a bit? Then were you able to move forward or did you feel like the hurdle became higher and it got harder to get back to where you were then have to move forward?

Jen:Howcome so many people on MB feel entitled to know where their WS is, what they're doing and who they're with, and b/c I was dumb enough to move out and separate from my H (at his request), I am not entitled to know these things? Or perhaps even I shouldn't even want to know these things?

Orchid: You are NOT dumb. All BS have a 'right' to know where their spouses are. However, when dealing with the A, a BS loses the ability to know. How each BS adjusts to that 'lack of knowledge' varies. In most cases, the ones who progress better are the ones who are able to work through the 'need to know'. Getting pass that phase is hard but not impossible. Jen, you are a valuable person. Don't forget it.

Jen:I know after doing those personality tests online that it's simply part of my personality that I need to be able to DO something, it's part of my need for CONTROL, it makes me feel worthwhile to be accomplishing something, and it makes me feel less than completely worthwhile as a person if I have to sit by and try to occupy myself and forget about my H altogether. I was good at that for long stretches here and there when I was busy enough to not think about him, but I do have time on my hands now, c'est la vie, I can't shut it out of my head.

Orchid: What are you trying to control? How important is your self worth vs your ability to control? Lots of questions here that can be put forth but I think you see the direction, 'eh?

Jen:I guess I should stop asking people for help. I never like the advice I get (look after you Jen, stop focussing on your H, let go and let God, etc), because, even if it is good advice and it's what's best for me, following it doesn't change anything.

Orchid: Are you sure it doesn't change anything? Don't you see your progress? Your advancement? Are you afraid of it? If you do, you are not alone. Instead it is a hidden fear that many of us silently carry.

When you stop asking, you stop healing.

Jen:I want and need to know if my H has gone away with another woman. Why is that so wrong?? Forgive me if I don't listen very well and this question has already been answered.

Orchid: Why? Because it is hurtful for you. It is ok if you keep asking. One day you won't. When that day occurs, you will feel a freedom you only dreamed about. You will be at a turning point that will help you move forward. You will heal.

take care,
L.

Hope you don't mind me butting in.
Something you said earlier struck a chord with me:

I was supposed to be the one to have the first baby, but that won't happen now. I am going to try to be happy for her of course, but it still hurts that she is in that place in life and now I am not.

I know what you are feeling here Jen. I expected this to be the year too ... (yes, pigs might fly). The only thing I want to say is that you owe it to your yet-to-be-born children to find a much better father for them than your WH has turned out to be.

And Jen needs a better man too.

jen i'm not saying this to upset you first off. i've kept up with your story even though i never answered you before. i do care what you're going through.
did you ever consider when you started this ball rolling that you might lose control of it? momentum picks up and sometimes we can't re-gain control. in my opinion men take infidelity of their spouse much differently than women do. women deal on a very emotional level and men deal both emotionally and through their pride and masculinity. some men can't handle the idea of a spouse betraying them and feel they have something to prove to themselves.
have you done counseling? that might be a good place to start. do you understand why you have your a? you say in this thread that this was the year you were going to have a baby. did you consider that a choice you were making might change that plan forever?
some marriages can be repaired and even made better. some aren't fixable. i think you need to repair ourself before you can even think about the marriage. not to say you're broken but you should deal with your own issues and what led you to make these choices and why it is that now you want to change. luck to you hon.

I was supposed to be the one to have the first baby, but that won't happen now. I am going to try to be happy for her of course, but it still hurts that she is in that place in life and now I am not.

Why were you supposed to? Because that was your plan? I was 'supposed' to with my ex-h but he was not ready to have babies. He is having one next month with OW. She ditched her 2.5 year old for my ex-h who she only knew 3 weeks. I don't think she is 'supposed' to have a baby but she is. The point is, we don't have the power or the control to decide who is supposed to have kids. And we all make choices that mess up our plans- you happened to make a big choice that messed up that plan unfortunately. I have told you several times that you have to forgive yourself of your past and change and move on- BUT you still have to face consequences of your actions. And like Claire said, why would you want your ex to be a father to your children? You should not even have to try to be happy for your SIL, you just should be. Her situation is totally separate from yours and it would be selfish NOT to be happy for her. You have to suck it up and care more about her than your situation in this case. BTW, my best friend just had a baby in May, and I have 3 other very close friends who are pregnant. So I have to suck it up everyday. and you know what? I really am happy for them. Because they are in a place in their lives where they are ready to have children, and no matter what I have gone through, they deserve to have me by their side, happy for them.

Hi Jen,
Again, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I did want to clarify something I said to you yesterday.

You said in your reply: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know about the "supposed to feel great pain and misery" part....I don't think I'm supposed to feel great pain and misery. I've had enough of it. I've certainly learned that I will never betray someone I love like I did ever again, it hurts me and them too much, it tore my whole world and life plan apart.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I worded the 'supposed to feel' part in a very bad way. I should have said, "It's normal to feel great misery and pain." "Supposed to" was a bad choice of words.

I know you've felt pain for a long time, but Jen it's still not over. I recently read that people need at the very least a year after a divorce is final to heal at all. I realize you've stopped divorce proceedings, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.

I think you know that just as Orchid said..if you stop asking, you stop learning. Please continue to post here and get the support you need. Isn't it great that we can come here and support each other in this rather 'anonymous' manner.

I'm sorry about the sadness you feel at your SIL having a baby. It is hard when our plans don't turn out the way we wanted them too. I feel this often when I see all of my friends that are still happily married after 20+ years. (We made it for 21) It's another loss. I can only speak for me, but what's worse is that I know, again, that I caused the loss/divorce.

Take care Jen, and again--I'm sorry you're feeling so upset.

H_P

Jen, may I humbly off an alternative goal?

A goal might be that even when you experience intense emotions, you are able to soothe yourself, while you maintain your ability to think clearly.

Think it over.

Pep

<small>[ July 16, 2003, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Thanks to everyone for the numerous replies....I slept in and now I'm running out the door to visit a friend. I'll try to reply more thoughtfully later on today.

Jen

And now for my more thoughtful and detailed reply to your posts....

Orchid: About the need to know feelings....I have found that once I've "found out" what I wanted to know in the past, then I was able to accept it and deal with it and move on (heal). Wondering is what's difficult. Finding out the truth and then accepting and dealing with it is my preference. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are NOT dumb. All BS have a 'right' to know where their spouses are. However, when dealing with the A, a BS loses the ability to know. How each BS adjusts to that 'lack of knowledge' varies. In most cases, the ones who progress better are the ones who are able to work through the 'need to know'. Getting pass that phase is hard but not impossible. Jen, you are a valuable person. Don't forget it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After several days of going crazy with frustration, and getting the tears out, I have calmed down a lot and accepted the fact that I may not ever get the truth about where my H is or why he left w/o telling me, or who he is travelling with.

But at least I can see what info my MIL is willing to provide me with. She invited me to meet her for lunch today, and that is what I am doing. I will ask at the END of the lunch if she knows where my H is, who he is with, and when he'll be home. I'll try to not tell her all about how he's been going away camping with this woman on weekends since May and sharing a bed with her, as my MIL is probably unaware of that fact, and it would be sheer mudslinging on my part.

As for my silly remark about how I shouldn't ask for advice as it isn't helping, I shouldn't have said that. I DO see how much I've learned and grown in the past year or so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Jen:I want and need to know if my H has gone away with another woman. Why is that so wrong?? Forgive me if I don't listen very well and this question has already been answered.

Orchid: Why? Because it is hurtful for you. It is ok if you keep asking. One day you won't. When that day occurs, you will feel a freedom you only dreamed about. You will be at a turning point that will help you move forward. You will heal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The day that I stop asking is the day that I will have given up on this M altogether, and then I can start true healing on my own.

ClaireL: Thanks, I agree, my H in the state he is currently in is not fit to be a father at all, and I would like a better man too, or at least my H with a true willingness to work on the M and treat me well again.

MJ-OH: I did IC last summer and fall, and feel I have gotten to the root of why I had my A. I won't get into that again here, but I understand it, and have been working on changes in myself because of it.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you say in this thread that this was the year you were going to have a baby. did you consider that a choice you were making might change that plan forever? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At the drunken time when I commenced the A, of course I didn't think consciously about how that might change that plan forever. I obviously see that now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think you need to repair ourself before you can even think about the marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, and I've been working on repairing myself. I think my H also needs to work on repairing himself, but he refuses to go for counselling, and he's literally a mess IMHO, especially b/c he's not only dealing with marital problems, but he lost his father this year too. He is still insistant on "avoiding thinking" as his means of coping.

adgirl:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was supposed to be the one to have the first baby, but that won't happen now. I am going to try to be happy for her of course, but it still hurts that she is in that place in life and now I am not.

Why were you supposed to? Because that was your plan? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that WAS our plan. But that's out the window now I realize. Like you I know so many women who have either gotten pregnant or given birth since my H and I separated it isn't funny. I think the number is at 9 now if you include my SIL.
Believe me, I've had to develop coping skills, espeically when people regularly say, "OH, maybe you'll be next!"

h_p: I will keep posting and asking, I know I will, I know I need to. I am sorry for your loss too, I see how hard it can be for you too.

Pep: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Jen, may I humbly off an alternative goal?

A goal might be that even when you experience intense emotions, you are able to soothe yourself, while you maintain your ability to think clearly.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely, I think that's one of the most brilliant things I've read in a while. Thank-you pepper!! You're awesome!

As I said, today I'm going for lunch with my MIL. I'm going to do my darndest to keep it as a friendly visit, and leave my H out of it unless she brings him up. And then I'll ask my burning questions at the end. The fact that we'll be in a restaurant will be a huge help for both of us to keep our temptation to burst into tears in check, I hope. I'll check in later today and let you all know how it went. Wish me well or say a prayer if you can!!

Jen

Good luck Jen. I pray your lunch goes well.

S&C

Thanks s&c!

Lunch went well, we both managed to avoid breaking into tears. We had a good visit, and she still loves me and said she'd even want to remain in contact if my H and I were to end up divorced. To an extent, she and I share a lot of the same pain, she without her H and me without mine, but the difference is hers is gone forever, and mine needs to wake up and make a decision about what he wants. She has no idea where my H is either. She said she hasn't brought me or the marriage/separation up since March, since she knows my H doesn't want to hear anything from her on the subject and I thanked her for that. I resisted saying a great many things, knowing that to tell her some of my fears and some of the things my H has done would serve no purpose other than to upset her further.

Apparently, my H and his brother (and my now pregnant SIL) were all away fishing/camping together, but my BIL and SIL came home to attend a wedding, and my H stayed where they were, but mentioned moving on to go fishing elsewhere at a place well known for its good fishing. He told them he may stay away for a few more days or a few weeks who knows. There is a good chance he is off fishing all by himself. No one in the family has heard from him since. My MIL said nothing about GF #2 (C - the one he lived with and went camping with a few times this spring) being with him, so I didn't either. She asked if I've been in contact with GF #1 (A) and I said no, that it was a conscious choice to not be in contact with her anymore, and I also explained how I felt that A was my competition, even if she thinks she can be friends with both my H and I. I explained to my MIL the concept of how C and A are meeting all of my H's emotional needs, and so long as they're doing that, he doesn't really need me. That made her pause and think a bit, but she still reminded me that A truly is just a friend to my H, that's all her intentions are, and that I really should get in touch with her and spend some time with her, as she is lonely and stuck at home this summer too. I said I didn't think I would. (A apparently even tried one of those freaky "speed dating" events, and has been sort of seeing one guy from that night a few times, but she isn't crazy about him.)

My MIL also reminded me that A has told her that she thinks my H still loves me.

My MIL really feels that it's a very good thing that my H is still talking to me, that it's probably a sign that he still loves me.

Something that really upsets me, but that I gave no reaction too (I forced myself to keep my mouth shut), is the fact that A is probably going to go with my H and his family to the coast on their annual family fishing trip. This is the same trip my H told me there wasn't a chance in he** he'd take me on. I can't believe A would be comfortable going in my place. It would put up another big wall between me and her that is for sure. That family fishing trip has always been a "family only" event, one that even girlfriends (even of 5+ years) were not allowed to go on, but my MIL would allow A to go. That makes me very upset (but I didn't reveal that to my MIL). But since I can't do anything about it, I am not going to worry about it.

Now the really odd thing is that the place my H was intending to go fishing at is on the way to my best friend's place (who I'm leaving to go visit tomorrow). My MIL and I both agreed I really should stop there and see if he's there. My only fear is that he IS there, but with GF#2. But if he is there alone, oh I can only dream, it would be a chance for us to be alone together, away from all distractions, doing one of the things we love doing together more than anything (camping and fishing). So I'm a bit excited and anxious about checking that fishing/camping spot, but trying not to get my hopes up as the odds of me finding him are probably slim anyway, and if I do find him, he may not want me around.

Apparently my H HAS TO come home next week as he is driving the family camper out to the coast with his mom, so while I'm away is when he'll be returning. AFTER I've checked the fishing spot he may be at I'll phone his cell and house again and leave a message as to my whereabouts.

So there's today's update! I don't leave until tomorrow. Let me know what you think!

Jen

<small>[ July 17, 2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

I agree, and I've been working on repairing myself. I think my H also needs to work on repairing himself, but he refuses to go for counselling, and he's literally a mess IMHO, especially b/c he's not only dealing with marital problems, but he lost his father this year too. He is still insistant on "avoiding thinking" as his means of coping.

Not long ago you mentioned going back to the counselor yourself. Have you made that appointment?

No, I'm going for my own special kind of therapy, hanging out with my best friend in sunny British Columbia.

Quite frankly, I stopped going to see my IC b/c I felt like I was paying her to tell her everything I write down in my journal with little or no real useful response from her. She usually just confirms exactly what I'm thinking and how I feel. Her usefulness ceased to exist to the point where even she said to me that I seem to be coping well on my own, and that I could continue to see her if I wanted, but that she didn't think it was a dire necessity.

I'm still curious if you folks think my convo with my MIL went well. (I think it did!)

Jen