TMD,

Ok, I’m an avid lurker and have never posted before. I have been following your story. I’m not even going to attempt to give you advice because I’m going through my own personal hell and have no wisdom to offer, but I just have to ask because it's bothering me ever since I started reading your story. Could there be another reason why you are posting here, other than to seek solace and advice? You mentioned in your very first posting that your OW found this site and is using it on you, could you be hoping that your OW has found your thread and is reading and following, thus, this is your way of continuing communication with her, albeit one way?

Rushed Fool !!!

What an interesting angle.

I never thought of that ... but .... wow, interesting.

I have my own idea of what is actually going on here ... I also sense there is a hidden agenda afoot ..... but your notion is stunning!

I wish you'd post your story Rushed ... your own personel hell.

Pep

Hmmm... thinking about what rushed fool suggested might be happening with TMD using MB to communicate with OW.

Makes sense - show OW what a struggle he is going thru for her, how tormented he is but his love for her is unchanged, how certain he is that his marriage is doomed, etc.. etc.. dropping morsels in hopes of piqueing her curiousity perhaps?

TMD - what's the story? partial truth?

Shelle

TMD....

Let me get this straight...
You do not want this kind of marriage, yet you refuse to do anything to change it, nor are you doing anything to end it.

Sounds to me that you are under the impression that she owes you, and come hell or high water, you are going to make her pay the debt...That you are willing to lose something if losing it will prove that it was worth losing.

Sort of similar to fighting over something...only to destroy it in the struggle....but having the attitude of "by gawd, I got it back"...even though now, it has become useless....

If you succeed at that which you are presently doing, what have you really accomplished? What have you gained?

If I didn't know any better, I would think that you are beginning to believe that the only way to make your life better is to make your W's life hell.

As a side note, I would bet the farm that if you were to see her happy with someone else, that your heart would feel like it was as big as a watermelon....While it seemed to be in your throat...

HCII

Cynical </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rushed fool:
<strong>TMD,

Ok, I’m an avid lurker and have never posted before. I have been following your story. I’m not even going to attempt to give you advice because I’m going through my own personal hell and have no wisdom to offer, but I just have to ask because it's bothering me ever since I started reading your story. Could there be another reason why you are posting here, other than to seek solace and advice? You mentioned in your very first posting that your OW found this site and is using it on you, could you be hoping that your OW has found your thread and is reading and following, thus, this is your way of continuing communication with her, albeit one way?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(Pondering with a light chuckle) Well... I'm not sure the OW would know exactly what an online forum is let alone follow a thread on one. She's not techy by any stretch. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> BUT... I suppose it's possible. I had to go back and look and sure enough I say “the OW found this site…” Base assumption on my part because the words were verbatim off the ‘Ending and Affair’ section on Infidelity. Are the same words in any of Harley’s books? It's as likely she read the book "Surviving an Affair", for instance, and knows nothing about the MB site...

All that aside. If she IS following this thread, then let me pause for a moment to say…

Hi There.

Seriously though… If she is following this thread, she's not read anything concerning my love for her she hasn't already heard from my mouth, and then some quite frankly, ... and maybe, just maybe, she’s gained perspective from the good people on this board, just as I have, which will help her too. I could only hope for such a boon.

Rushed Fool? I'm proud to be the one to draw you from your silent scrutiny to compose your first post. You are a true cynic. Now our thread is more rounded than ever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You've piqued my interest in your personal hell. I wonder what it is about my story that has kept you quietly immersed for such a long-winded thread? I mustn’t allow the cynic in me to overtake my purpose here. Is there a parallel of significance? Please do share. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
-TMD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hcii:
<strong>TMD....

Let me get this straight...
You do not want this kind of marriage, yet you refuse to do anything to change it, nor are you doing anything to end it.

</strong>
Correct... and correct... and... on the contrary. I have seen the lawyer, I actually have already presented my W with dissolution papers. Our finances have been separated since mid May and we are both prepping the house for sale. We have gone shopping for her next abode. The process is well underway. But I have not closed the communication channel. <strong>

Sounds to me that you are under the impression that she owes you, and come hell or high water, you are going to make her pay the debt...That you are willing to lose something if losing it will prove that it was worth losing. </strong>

Odd thought process there... To keep with your nomenclature... She 'owes' our marriage a 'debt' that 'I' feel has been lacking over the years. and per your last comment... giving 'worth' to a loss is an oxymoron unless you're an accountant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <strong>

Sort of similar to fighting over something...only to destroy it in the struggle....but having the attitude of "by gawd, I got it back"...even though now, it has become useless....

</strong> Well THAT is basically where the marriage is right NOW. <strong>

If you succeed at that which you are presently doing, what have you really accomplished?

</strong> Well... as per my more recent replys: Success will be measured by my having found a means to cope with or resolve and set aside my feelings for the OW.<strong>

What have you gained?

</strong> If I succeed in that? LOADS!

And furthermore... though you would rush to have me end my marriage... If I can set the OW aside on my own terms... and my W can wait for that before she decides enough is enough... THAT might be the setting for... at a minimum... effective communication... A means by which we establish a meaningful relationship, post-marriage or otherwise, for the sake of our son. <strong>

If I didn't know any better, I would think that you are beginning to believe that the only way to make your life better is to make your W's life hell. </strong>

Now you sound like my W on one of her rants. Suffice it to say that you don't know any better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <strong>

As a side note, I would bet the farm that if you were to see her happy with someone else, that your heart would feel like it was as big as a watermelon....While it seemed to be in your throat...

</strong> Does the farm have a lake? You will have lost a nice property. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If there's one solitary thing that I have ALWAYS been a sucker for it's seeing two people together who are truly in love. I get that big, stupid, toothy grin before I realize I'm smiling.

Because I DO care for my W, which I'm sure is contrary to popular belief here, I would be genuinely happy for her if she could find that kind of love. and yes... I might even get a little choked up. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

-TMD

HCII[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

TMD, I went back & reviewed this thread. You have presented your marital history as we might expect of a WS who is in withdrawl, with much of the problems mentioned being blamed on your W. This may be true, we don't know, we weren't there. And if it is true, then you standing up for your rights in your M sounds like it has been a long time coming.

"so basically... she has to figure out if she can forgive me... on her own time..."
Yep - and you cannot rush this.

"...and she has to get over the fact that I'm not letting go of this feeling inside..."
WRONG! She does not HAVE to "get over" anything.
This comment again shows you have no idea how HUGE the pain of an A is for the BS. I told my H once that only by "murdering our child", could he have hurt me more than he did with his A.

All the arguments and problems you had before were on a level playing field - score one for her, score two for you, minus one for her, etc... etc.. we all do it. With your A, you took away all options and broke all rules. She didn't have a say in it, she didn't have a choice, she was not given an informed chance to prevent it. You no longer were just having typical marital problems that she probably thought were "normal". You flat out REJECTED HER AS A HUMAN BEING AND CHOSE SOMEONE ELSE OVER HER - REPEATEDLY. She is going to take that VERY PERSONALLY. You cannot expect her to just be able to turn that off and talk to you about the "normal" stuff again. She HAS to deal with the A, even though you may want to set it aside and deal with the marriage issues. (Which are secondary at this point)

"I'm supposed to take the abuse from her because any and all of it is warranted. UGGHhh! No - it is your choice whether you take it or not. I know I went overboard and crossed lines when I was angry with my H. Your W is probably doing that and more - due to you being out of the house, her time to "vent" on you is limited, and she may feel like "what do I have to lose - he's already out of the house". My H & I went thru all of our stuff in the same house. Neither of us left, not even to sleep on the couch. It was very painful, but I think it helped us move along faster than if we had been separated. You have a choice to stay away, not engage in non-essential conversation, just visit your kid, etc...

What I am left to wonder is why are you in a holding pattern? It seems that you have pretty well figured out that you don't want your W or your M anymore, and you are out of the house.

So -
What is keeping you in the M?
What is holding you back from initiating DV and really moving on?

Just wondering.....
Shelle

Ok, TMD, you say your marriage is over, you don't want it, wife never validates...blah blah blah, cliche cliche cliche!
SO WHY ARE YOU HERE? THIS IS A MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE! Not a sight to get acceptance of your actions since you have every excuse in the WS HANDBOOK. WHY ARE YOU HERE? Please don't say TO UNDERSTAND another POV! You don't want to understand anything of your part in this breakdown. Yes we know, you told your wife it is your fault, you chose to have an affair. Well isn't that nice of you, that makes you a GOOD HONEST MAN in your world. HINT: WORDS aren't enough to make it true, actions are. So again, why are you at a MARRIAGE BUILDING site that is formed to help people SAVE THEIR MARRIAGE?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ShelleBelle66:
<strong>TMD, I went back & reviewed this thread. You have presented your marital history as we might expect of a WS who is in withdrawl, with much of the problems mentioned being blamed on your W. This may be true, we don't know, we weren't there. And if it is true, then you standing up for your rights in your M sounds like it has been a long time coming.

"so basically... she has to figure out if she can forgive me... on her own time..."
Yep - and you cannot rush this.

"...and she has to get over the fact that I'm not letting go of this feeling inside..."
WRONG! She does not HAVE to "get over" anything.
This comment again shows you have no idea how HUGE the pain of an A is for the BS. I told my H once that only by "murdering our child", could he have hurt me more than he did with his A.

All the arguments and problems you had before were on a level playing field - score one for her, score two for you, minus one for her, etc... etc.. we all do it. With your A, you took away all options and broke all rules. She didn't have a say in it, she didn't have a choice, she was not given an informed chance to prevent it. You no longer were just having typical marital problems that she probably thought were "normal". You flat out REJECTED HER AS A HUMAN BEING AND CHOSE SOMEONE ELSE OVER HER - REPEATEDLY. She is going to take that VERY PERSONALLY. You cannot expect her to just be able to turn that off and talk to you about the "normal" stuff again. She HAS to deal with the A, even though you may want to set it aside and deal with the marriage issues. (Which are secondary at this point)

</strong> That would be why the points I made were in the order I made them. I understand the linear nature of this... one has to come before the other. I'm with you. Cool? <strong>

"I'm supposed to take the abuse from her because any and all of it is warranted. UGGHhh! No - it is your choice whether you take it or not. I know I went overboard and crossed lines when I was angry with my H. Your W is probably doing that and more - due to you being out of the house, her time to "vent" on you is limited, and she may feel like "what do I have to lose - he's already out of the house". My H & I went thru all of our stuff in the same house. Neither of us left, not even to sleep on the couch. It was very painful, but I think it helped us move along faster than if we had been separated. You have a choice to stay away, not engage in non-essential conversation, just visit your kid, etc...

What I am left to wonder is why are you in a holding pattern? It seems that you have pretty well figured out that you don't want your W or your M anymore, and you are out of the house.

So -
What is keeping you in the M? What is holding you back from initiating DV and really moving on?

</strong> Well... I guess it's because I want to make sure I didn't miss something. It's why I'm in counseling to some extent. I'm always open to the possibility that I've not looked at all the angles. This forum has presented a few that have given me pause.

Maybe a part of me wishes my W would give a @#$%. But oh boy... I've provided her the runway of my A to launch sorties at will. I'm supposed to sit there and take it just as your H did from you. I Did a bad thing. I DID A THING I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD EVER DO IN MY LIFE. WHAT'S WORSE? I RELISH THE MEMORIES. WHAT KIND OF PERSON DOES THAT MAKE ME? TAKE THAT AND STRAP IT ON FOR A DAY SHELLE. Honestly! WHAT ABOUT MY GD TORMENT IN THIS VERITABLE MORAL PARADOX? This is real fecal matter here guys.. on BOTH SIDES OF THE TABLE. And it blows!

Shelle - I have no intention of making a life decision like this under duress. I need to know and feel comfortable that I’ve thought it out. That I’ve heard what people say; tried the things that haven’t been tried. My emotions tell me to have done with it. I’m waiting for my logical thought processes to catch up and bring balance to all this. I don’t know If that can happen. But if it does… then I’ll be sure. Until then… I’m in a ‘holding pattern’. My W may initiate the closure. If so, I’ll go with it. I said it’s her choice right now. I told her if SHE wanted to try counseling… she deserved my effort in that regard. No interest on her part. At least none at the present time.

Then there is the long-shot. My proverbial hold-out. This may be more than anyone wants to hear. The fantasy if you will. The possibility that the OW can’t continue in her life as it is anymore. Yes Rushed Fool… I hear you… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The possibility that she spends the next 2, 3, 4 years changing her life…. Seeing what it’s like to be a single mom… seeing if she has the capacity to make it professionally in that environment … Finding herself as it were. Maybe then finding me as I near the end of that same cycle. The OW and I talked about this too. Nothing new for her Rushed Fool… significant content for the rest of you though I’m sure.

That’s the part I have to deal with on my own terms. I told the OW I would wait for her -- ‘as long as it takes’ were my exact words.

She said to me…. “what if you meet the love of your life and marry her and I call you five years down the road.” and Rushed Fool… now the content is getting specific enough for there to be no question who I am if she’s following.

I replied: hypothetically, If this imaginary woman IS the love of my life, there would be no room in my heart for YOU. I would talk to you… I would listen. I would even offer advice if you asked for it… but that would be all. I then said: Today – right now—I cannot see that person as being anyone but you. TRUTH

How’s that for opening up PEP?

Shelle said Just wondering.....

Shelle – all I know right now with certainty is that I’m Truly Madly Deeply #$%^&* up. I don’t think anyone but ME can really get me through this… That scares the hell out of me.
- I’m scared of the prospect of going back to the same old same old.
- I’m scared of the prospect of the effects of this change on my son and my ability to cushion that successfully.
- I’m scared of my present capacity financially to provide what I know my W will rightfully demand and still be able to afford to live in a place where gunfire is not commonplace.
- I’m scared of the what ifs. What if I go back to my W but I’m never fully able to come to grips with my feelings for the OW…? then she comes back.
- What if I never reconcile with my W and we D? Then the OW comes back into my life and I’m not everything she thought I would be.
- What if the OW comes back to me and we court and date and the kids turn out to love and respect the respective stepparent and we all live happily ever after?
- What if I’m supposed to be alone? What about that?

It goes on and on…

Yeah Shelle…. I’m wondering too.

-TMD

Shelle[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sin is always pleasurable. That's why it's tempting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by trying2_4give:
<strong>Ok, TMD, you say your marriage is over, you don't want it, wife never validates...blah blah blah, cliche cliche cliche!
SO WHY ARE YOU HERE? THIS IS A MARRIAGE BUILDING SITE! Not a sight to get acceptance of your actions since you have every excuse in the WS HANDBOOK. WHY ARE YOU HERE? Please don't say TO UNDERSTAND another POV! You don't want to understand anything of your part in this breakdown. Yes we know, you told your wife it is your fault, you chose to have an affair. Well isn't that nice of you, that makes you a GOOD HONEST MAN in your world. HINT: WORDS aren't enough to make it true, actions are. So again, why are you at a MARRIAGE BUILDING site that is formed to help people SAVE THEIR MARRIAGE?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since there is nothing I can tell you that falls within the confines of your aforementioned rules, I guess my only option is to cease and desist.

Thank you all for your time. Clearly some of you saw value in helping here. For those of you who did, Thank you. Ark- Thank you especially. I will keep your words in my mind. Maybe- Just maybe- I’ll find a way to salvage this that works for me inside my messed up brain.

For those of you lacking the intestinal fortitude to let this thing run it’s course. I’m not here for your health. I’m here for mine. It’s an infidelity forum and I’m an infidel. Seemed a good fit to glean opposing POV. OOPS! I broke one of your rules. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TTF? Take a lesson or 2 from ARK^^. She can make the same point I think you were attempting but deftly and with care as to not alienate the subject and possibly, with a modicum of tenacity, maneuver the subject into a different line of reasoning. She is a formidable tool and MB is lucky to have her here.

I am taking ARK's advice now and avoiding volitile environments.

Thanks again all... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've printed the thread... I'll study it. For the sake of those who are angered by my 'unique' agenda, I'll not be back.

I wish you all luck and God-speed to healing.

Waving Goodbye, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

-TMD

Correction this is an INFIDELITY FORUM for those that want to SAVE their marriage! If you are looking for an infidelity forum that assists in continuing infidelity you need to go to to another site that thinks infidelity is GLORY-ous! (no pun intended ofcourse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) wink wink
Everything you have stated is why it should not be saved. Everything that we have stated to you regarding affairs you don't want to HEAR because we are the enemy. We are personalizing, blah blah blah. We want to help those that WANT HELP, NOT EXCUSES! And you are truly fooling yourself if you think that your story or agenda is UNIQUE. JMO

<small>[ July 23, 2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: trying2_4give ]</small>

Please don’t go away. Hey once again you are able to draw me out of my silence. Please don’t go away. Of course you might have guessed that I’ve been fascinated with your story because I’m going through something similar, except I would be in the position of your wife. You’ve helped me gain so much insight into my husband’s behavior and rationale. And you can definitely see why I’m a cynic, and how I was conditioned to be. You wanting to leave painfully reminds me of how my husband wants to walk away too, because he holds on to his believes and hates my voice. He becomes angry every time I get support and he gets challenged. This is why I come here silently to find comfort, and read and cheer or disagree silently. I didn’t bother to post my story because I think it’s just very similar to everyone else’s story. Really TMD, though we are at opposite ends but our struggles are probably the same. Similarly your wife’s struggle and yours are more alike than you think. So please stick around and hear these people, not that you have to agree, but they are lending your wife a voice.

ps, Pepperband, thank you for asking about me. I have read so many of your posts and I admire your wisdom. When I sort my thoughts out a little bit and gather more courage I will post my story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rushed fool:
<strong>Please don’t go away. Hey once again you are able to draw me out of my silence. Please don’t go away. Of course you might have guessed that I’ve been fascinated with your story because I’m going through something similar, except I would be in the position of your wife. You’ve helped me gain so much insight into my husband’s behavior and rationale. And you can definitely see why I’m a cynic, and how I was conditioned to be. You wanting to leave painfully reminds me of how my husband wants to walk away too, because he holds on to his believes and hates my voice. He becomes angry every time I get support and he gets challenged. This is why I come here silently to find comfort, and read and cheer or disagree silently. I didn’t bother to post my story because I think it’s just very similar to everyone else’s story. Really TMD, though we are at opposite ends but our struggles are probably the same. Similarly your wife’s struggle and yours are more alike than you think. So please stick around and hear these people, not that you have to agree, but they are lending your wife a voice.

ps, Pepperband, thank you for asking about me. I have read so many of your posts and I admire your wisdom. When I sort my thoughts out a little bit and gather more courage I will post my story.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RUSHED FOOL - My heart goes out to you. If parallels are even close, you're in for a rough ride. If the tone of your posts are like your tone with him... You may have hope. I'll not post here anymore regarding MY story. I have enough "screaming at home" I don't need it here.

If you would like to post your story, I would gladly participate. It might be the closest I'll ever come to communication with my wife... albeit vicariously through you. It may well be healing for both of us. I'm willing to anonymously drop the walls if you are. Game On?

-TMD

TMD, until you posts today, none of us realized how close you were to DV and the steps you had taken in that direction. I understand that you felt you had to withold some of that info so you would get responses.

"Maybe a part of me wishes my W would give a @#$%. Can't speak for your W, but in my case I cared - always did. On d-day I got the biggest shock of my life and went into "save my marriage" mode. Don't know why some people do and some people don't. I just knew that the most important person in the world to me had done something horrible, but he also needed me. For me it all came down to the fact that my love for him was bigger and stronger than my hurt over what he did. The A was only a month out of our 15 year history. I kept that in perspective, and I refused to let his guilt or self-hatred kill our marriage. I stepped up to the plate as I never had before in our M - and *I* was the one treated as you describe you have been treated by your W in your M. The A could have been the "last straw", but I chose it not to be.

"I'm supposed to sit there and take it just as your H did from you." Don't think my H just sat there and "took it" - he didn't have to. Not in the sense that he had the choice to leave, but because I really sucked it up and did not mention the A, the OW, etc... after the first 2-3 weeks. I had the information that I needed to know to make an informed decision, and I chose my marriage. We had tension, we had tears, we had fights, but not specifically about the A. It was as if we were having all the pains that we should have had along the way if we had both communicated better. The A was just the catalyst for all of it. We rode the wave and survived it.

"I Did a bad thing. I DID A THING I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD EVER DO IN MY LIFE. WHAT'S WORSE? I RELISH THE MEMORIES. WHAT KIND OF PERSON DOES THAT MAKE ME? TAKE THAT AND STRAP IT ON FOR A DAY SHELLE. Honestly! WHAT ABOUT MY GD TORMENT IN THIS VERITABLE MORAL PARADOX? This is real fecal matter here guys.. on BOTH SIDES OF THE TABLE. And it blows!" Yes TMD, you did a bad thing. But that does not make you a bad person. I was able to separate that with my H. I hated the sin, but oh how I loved the sinner. You know what? My H had great memories of OW too - and shared them with me. First they were of the hurtful comparison type, those were very hard to take. But then, he began to tell me some history that he had with this OW that really helped me to understand him better as the man he is now. I remember several nights holding his hand while he reminisced and cried over how his life was so different than what he had thought it would be. I cared about his feelings, we talked more than we ever have, and we got through this huge pile of &*$% he had created TOGETHER. Having an A does not doom you to a life of isolation unless you chose that option.

TMD, I have limited time right now, but I want to
respond to your "what if's". Although you said you were leaving, I hope you lurk long enough to see my post.

I'll be back later...
Shelle

I came/come to this boards with no personel agenda...
I have not been the betrayed or the betrayer...nor the OP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ..

As I have confessed before I stood closest to being the WS one time in my life...not with anyone specific...but because I was lost in what not realizing the true sanctity of marriage...
It is a lesson well worth examining, deciding and choosing about....

OK new confession...if jimmy buffet knocks on the door in next five minutes and invites me sailing I might go...but just for a ride on the boat....but not for Barry Mannilow...

I take mine and others vows seriously...and i expect the same from others...

I abhor adultery for it brings great pain to all involved....and throw children in the mix...oy veh...and with no personal agenda I can hear your pain as well as the BS...and know it is the childs' pain that speaks the loudest to me...

I also have a great dislike for powerstruggling...AND have been taught by a great mentor...that there are somethings we can't fix...

you hold on to some beliefs "we can't fix" and as I just noted I don't believe in power struggling...

In regards to the OW...if I were you I would look long and hard on how it has served you and your life...and look long and hard inwards as to why you do hold on to it...I don't think it's there because is it any more real or more true than other feelings....I think it serves a purpose...
that has not necessarily served you well...You have sought a lot of validation from HER to make you think it is true...have you sought any one elses validation as well?

I also would debate the "love" word till the cows come home....that though you claim to love the OW...it can only be a reflection that you held too...for real love is action....and certain actions can not exist in a triangle and people always get hurt....
I digress on that though....and will leave the love debate for another time ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I believe in marriage builders...not at all costs...
and you yourself said that your wife is not interested in reconciling....but this is early in the game...and I advise you to stick around...
like water dripping on a stone....soon the stone will give in....
Ok that does smack of brain washing and mind control...but hey...

all bring to the table much wisdom and pain...
all can be learned from...
take what serves you well...but be sure that you serve without hurting others...

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by trying2_4give:
<strong>Correction this is an INFIDELITY FORUM for those that want to SAVE their marriage! If you are looking for an infidelity forum that assists in continuing infidelity you need to go to to another site that thinks infidelity is GLORY-ous! (no pun intended ofcourse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) wink wink
Everything you have stated is why it should not be saved. Everything that we have stated to you regarding affairs you don't want to HEAR because we are the enemy. We are personalizing, blah blah blah. We want to help those that WANT HELP, NOT EXCUSES! And you are truly fooling yourself if you think that your story or agenda is UNIQUE. JMO</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sheesh! I have as much will power to leave this thread as I do the OW.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What TTF? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> HOLY CRAP!! ARE you the freekin' BAD COP of the MB Forum boards? Unbeliveable! Take a left turn man and keep going till you chill. Wow!

I'm very COOL! I just don't SUGAR COAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong>I came/come to this boards with no personel agenda...
I have not been the betrayed or the betrayer...nor the OP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ..

As I have confessed before I stood closest to being the WS one time in my life...not with anyone specific...but because I was lost in what not realizing the true sanctity of marriage...
It is a lesson well worth examining, deciding and choosing about....

OK new confession...if jimmy buffet knocks on the door in next five minutes and invites me sailing I might go...but just for a ride on the boat....but not for Barry Mannilow...

I take mine and others vows seriously...and i expect the same from others...

I abhor adultery for it brings great pain to all involved....and throw children in the mix...oy veh...and with no personal agenda I can hear your pain as well as the BS...and know it is the childs' pain that speaks the loudest to me...

I also have a great dislike for powerstruggling...AND have been taught by a great mentor...that there are somethings we can't fix...

you hold on to some beliefs "we can't fix" and as I just noted I don't believe in power struggling...

In regards to the OW...if I were you I would look long and hard on how it has served you and your life...and look long and hard inwards as to why you do hold on to it...I don't think it's there because is it any more real or more true than other feelings....I think it serves a purpose...
that has not necessarily served you well...You have sought a lot of validation from HER to make you think it is true...have you sought any one elses validation as well?

I also would debate the "love" word till the cows come home....that though you claim to love the OW...it can only be a reflection that you held too...for real love is action....and certain actions can not exist in a triangle and people always get hurt....
I digress on that though....and will leave the love debate for another time ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I believe in marriage builders...not at all costs...
and you yourself said that your wife is not interested in reconciling....but this is early in the game...and I advise you to stick around...
like water dripping on a stone....soon the stone will give in....
Ok that does smack of brain washing and mind control...but hey...

all bring to the table much wisdom and pain...
all can be learned from...
take what serves you well...but be sure that you serve without hurting others...

ARK</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely astonishing. I'm taking this post and printing it out to keep with me in my wallet.

I'm sitting here at work trying not to cry... thank you very much ARK. I wish I had more time with you.

My counselor tonight will pale in the shadow of these words.

-TMD

TMD,

Please come visit my very own thread that Pepperband created for me.

Now you've done it, I went from a silent lurker to 4 postings in a day. What am I going to do?