Hi Guys,

star*fish:

Yes, actually I did hear from him. Thought I had posted here but maybe on another thread. Heard briefly Monday afternoon via email...said he wasn't ignoring me, just still "working on things."

Emailed quite a bit during the week. I was in Plan A mode and he was pretty receptive. But when I asked to spend some time together over the weekend he refused.

Now I know he has been with her the last two weekends.

Plan A? If that is truly a good idea, how can I when he refuses to move back here? I know the reason he is doing that it that if he were here, he couldn't be there on weekends.

Plan A during withdrawal? I thought I was; but in truth I think it was all marital homework. And, admittedly I completely forgot about the withdrawal thing (stupid, I know!). He was on meds, so I guess I figured that would take care of it. During the time he was home, I tried everything to make him comfortable. He kept withdrawing from me more and more. He got to the point where I couldn't get through to him at all. That's when he decided he "couldn't make me happy" and surprised me by leaving without notice.

Hi Mimi,

I just read about your "falling off the wagon" on your other thread, and I laughed and laughed about what you did!

So your vote is Plan B, huh?

Good luck. You sound so close to recovery. I am really praying for you.

LouLou,

Yes, I now realize after others have advised me that it is nearly impossible for the WS to meet my needs during the early stages of recovery. Too bad I didn't realize that when he was here. Don't know if it would have helped, but it certainly couldn't have hurt.

So now we are two votes for Plan B!

Isgirl,

Here is my fear and the method behind my madness. You did a Plan A. You had to go to B. When your H came home, rather than give him a bit of time to adjust and withdraw, you guys jumped right into marriage homework. And what I am afraid of, is that what your H is going to remember right now, is the stress of rebuilding instead of the excellent Plan A you did. So when I say....Plan A....I mean a very very very short Plan A....just to show him once again that you're not all about questionaires and homework....that you really are a better alternative than OW....because what I'm afraid of is that he took off because he was just overwhelmed intitiallly by both withdrawal AND homework simultaneously. At the same time, I don't want to derail your Plan B....or weaken it. Even if there were a few days where he could see what if feels like for his marriage not to seem so high maintenance....because really....the man is still in the fog and still going through withdrawal so not that receptive. I think there is no doubt that the B is going to have to be reinstated and have even more conditions. And really if he won't come home or see you....you really haven't got a choice but to go straight to Plan B. However, if you get a small window of opportunity.....I'd sure like to see you give him something to think about.

star*fish, what you say makes perfect sense. Add to that the fact that I was expecting my ENs to be met and they weren't. No wonder he considered himself a failure and went running.

But like you say, if he refuses to come home...

BTW, what do you guys make of the fact that except for the day he moved out and the day after than he has only communicated with me by email? No phone calls, no in-person meetings. I even invited him to dinner Friday night because we had had a day of really, really great emails back and forth. He said he was feeling my love (at last). But he declined, saying "don't take this as rejection, but..."

Then he promptly left town, presumable to go you-know-where to see you-know-who!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> BTW, what do you guys make of the fact that except for the day he moved out and the day after than he has only communicated with me by email? No phone calls, no in-person meetings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I make of it is that he is a conflict avoider. Which also explains why he had so much difficulty dealing with your needs and the responsibilties of rebuilding. That doesn't mean he won't eventually have to do those things, but I think that because he usually runs from conflict, you may have to build more slowly testing the waters along the way.

Isgirl, please let me add that I think this is very unfair to you and that I feel deeply for the pain this may be causing you. Please do not blame yourself for anything that has gone wrong....this is his shame.

Having said that, I wish that it wasn't your responsibility to be the most mature partner in this relationship, because you've worked so hard at doing all the right things.....and really....he OUGHT to be stronger, more moral, more loving. I'm just trying very hard to help you deal with the reality of how he actually is. He has alot of catching up to do....and it's scaring him. Back off. Let him come to you. If you get an opportunity to tell him that you know this was scary for him but that you want him back home and you guys can try it more slowly....DO.

star*fish,

You are absolutely the best! You have no idea how much your support means to me.

You are also very astute at "reading" people. My H is a huge conflict avoider.

OK, so when he gets back to town, do I let him know that I realize he is back in the A? He'll probably email me tonight or sometime tomorrow. It is not in my personality to hide my head in the sand. I am pretty direct, outspoken, honest. Of course, these are all things that probably scare and threaten him. But I don't think it is right to just ignore the fact the the OW is back in the picture, that the NC letter didn't work.

It just seems that ignoring the existence of the A is akin to condoning it, and giving him permission, or enabling it. Am I wrong here?

Isgirl,

Your strength is probably the thing that most attracted your husband to you. It is also the thing that frightens him the most and makes him the most uncomfortable. Afterall, it's easy to feel like a failure when you are married to superwife. My H had some of the same complaints....never felt he would be good enough...doomed to fail.

Yes, I believe that you should confront the affair....don't give up your honesty and integrity because of whatever weaknesses he may have. But do be careful about how you communicate, in the sense that you don't want to LB....but you also want to avoid making it seem clinical or business like as well.

I envision it going something like this:

H, I know where you've been and even though I'm disappointed and hurt, I want you to know that I still love you and I know that severing ties when you are afraid of the outcome is difficult for you. This is a scary and unsettling time for both of us, but don't give up. Come home and let's begin again, and this time, let's take it slowly so you are more comfortable and don't feel so pressured and have time to feel successful. Don't let this backslide undo everything. Of course, that can't be done if you have contact with OW. That wouldn't be fair to anyone. We have the rest of our lives to divorce eachother, but we don't have much time left to save our family. Come home and let's try again.

These are my words, but the point is to try and validate (even though it feels impossible) his trouble with completely letting go. These affairs are so addictive. Then tell him all is not lost if he can recommit. And lastly, that you have some idea of why he may have backslid and that the two or you can relax a little bit and take things at a slower pace.

If he refuses to stop all contact or come home chere, you are running out of options and may have to go to Plan B. Even if he does come home, you're practically starting from the beginning again....so take your time. It took me almost a year and a half to reach the state of intimacy after H's A. My H is a conflict avoider too. I found that one of the most productive things that I did was to live these priniciples and talk less about them. I began to negotiate....as opposed to talking about negotiation. My H went to a Harley seminar with me, but quickly tired of the homework. I did mine. I filled his needs and told him what I needed from him as clearly and honestly as I could. Statements. I made lots of statements. "I love when you call me on your way home from work." I stopped criticizing him or complaining....but I still expected him to care. One day, I woke up and realized....he did.

I'm sorry this is such a hard time for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

{{{{{{{{{star*fish}}}}}}}}}

Thank you, thank you. You and your H sound so much like me and mine. Mine wants to be perfect, hates himself when he fails at something, gives up (IMVHO) way too early on himself and his challenges and goals.

I'm a talker, especially about feelings, and it is like learning Russian for him.

Believe I will try your approach first. Everything to be gained.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, it appears he doesn't want to work on recovery. So it will have to be - <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> - Plan B again.

I told him I understood how difficult ending the A was and that I wanted to stand by him and help him. I invited him to come back, to experience "MB Lite" where there is less pressure, less relationship talk, less stress, less focus on MB exercises. He simply replied that he isn't "ready" for it now. So I guess that means he is currently unwilling to work toward rebuilding our M.

He has admitted to spending the weekend with the OW. I have no idea what his intentions in that area are, but I have to protect myself from this insanity.

Yes you do chere. You knew this was a possibility, but like you I was hoping for a different outcome. If he is not ready to stop contact, then truly he will continue to hurt you. Having already done this once, you know that this is to protect you from that and to keep him from sitting on the fence forever. I have heard other people who had to do more than one Plan B and who survived it. To be honest, it isn't a great sign but the fat lady hasn't sung yet either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

<small>[ July 28, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Your WS sounds just like mine did when he first went back. I wouldn't be discouraged if I were you. Unfortunately, like someone here said, it's a process we have to be patient to go through to save our marriages.

PLAN B can work. He's in the honeymoon phase right now. They will begin to show their true selves to each other.

LOL, my WS told me in one of our recent conversations (which we are not supposed be having) that he discovered that the OW is "just like any other woman". What did he think she was? It would have been appropriate if he thought she was an alien.

Star*fish and Mimi,

I love you guys! Thank you so much for your loyalty and support. I am bottomed out tonight. After the phone conversation with my H tonight, where he admitted he was "in love" with her, and when questioned, "in love" with me also, my head is spinning and my emotions raw. It's tough to go to work after a night of tears (swollen eyes, you get the pic!).

He has pretty much agreed to totally move out (remember, he has his office out of the home). I explained why it needed to be a total separation, a duplication of the divorce situation and he has accepted it, just has to make arrangements with his home office.

We were both in tears on the phone tonight. What a totally screwed up situation. How sad. He's sad for what he is experiencing, what he is "putting me through," the sadness he is making me feel...WOW! What a time in my life!

ISgirl,

He will likely regret his choice with a little time. If he is this emotional now, it will probably get worse for him. Strict plan B. I know how hard it is and I myself have waivered. So has Mimi, but look at the success for her that seems to be looming on the horizon. My thoughts are with you.
NW

I had a late appointment this morning, so I was still at the house when he arrived. I sent the Plan B letter last night, but understand there will need to be some communication as he gets ready to make the move out of the house.

He was surprised to see me here, and looked miserable; said he hadn't slept much. Can't say I did either.

I also told him that this time in Plan B I plan to tell more people we are separated, and tell his brothers about the A. No one but two of my friends and my son have known so far. I emailed my SIL last night to tell her the sad news, and to encourage BIL to talk to my H. Also encouraged H to get back to posting here. He's just lurking so far.

Before the letter was sent, I also sent him some MB links, from Knewjie, whose H posted (as the WS) - a very enlightening series of links. He calls the first one, "Diary of a Madman." Knewjie, for that I thank you. It helps us BS's keep the faith that nothing is totally hopeless.

The real deep dark Plan B will start when he moves out.

OK, I started my ISGirl Plan tonight. I have been fighting 10 pounds for a year. Tonight I got back into my exercise program. Walked vigorously for almost five miles.

Actually, as vigorous as it was, I ended up kicking it up a notch toward the end as a looming thunderstorm got closer and closer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

...ahhhh, Florida, gotta love it - Thunderstorm Capital of the World!

So I am committed - lose the weight, get toned again. Take care of me.

Building an ISGirl plan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just a change of focus...gotta do it!

Although I give myself C- on PLAN B, I must say that, as much as I fougnt doing it, it is worthwhile. Like you are realizing IS GIRL, it's great for your self-esteem. I have really gotten more in touch with who I am. I'm displeased about a lot that I am learning about myself. However, I am accepting of myself.

I don't have much to report. I'm basically still Plan Bish-in my holding pattern. I bought a house today that WS is happy with, says that he could live there. He wants a SANCTUARY when he comes back to me, he says. WS is almost, almost in my reach but not quite there yet. Or should I say that I'm almost in his reach. He continues to beg and throw out white flags but has not done the letter yet. He's volunteering to help me with stuff, for example, like my son's auto claim which he initially ignored. I will keep you guys posted.

Let's get ONWARD WITH OUR PLANS!!

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Any updates with you Mimi?

I guess if I had actually read all of your response to Isgirl I would have noticed your update. Sorry, my mind is wandering. You know the feeling.

isgirl,

Just wanted you to know I stopped by. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Good going!

Question:

What do you make of these things he said to me:

(1) "You need to understand that even if I never saw you again, I would not and could not get you out of my life. Regardless of where we are now, there is a very special history -- something I enjoy and treasure. You needed to know that."

I say sounds to me like he wants to ignore any feelings for my and put me in his past - "history."

(2) "I love you and care very much for your well being, peace and comfort. That may sound contradictory because of my actions, but it is true. You are a very special person -- perhaps the most unique person I know. I admire so much about you."

The most unique person I know? I am not sure if that is a compliment.

Anyhow, just wanted to get your opinions and feedback. Thanks all. I'm off to work now. Will check in tonight.

Hey star*fish...don't know where you live, but it looks like you don't sleep...your post said 12:25 a.m.! But thanks for checking in on me.

isgirl,

It sounds like alien fogbabble to me. Have you learned how to babble back yet? I think it's orchid who created it? If not, we'll have to see if she'll come and show you.

Yeah, I'm not a big sleeper. I'm in Houston right now.....just moved here a few months ago from Venezuela.