star,

Yes, I am so sad, and beginning to be so drained. Someday, I would like to hear your whole story. How you arrived at intimacy.

How do we sent private messages here without showing the world our email address?

Thank you, and

{{{{{{{{{{{star*fish}}}}}}}}}}}}

back atcha!

Gotta go dark. Started to send an email to him tonight saying, "Well, what happened in counseling? You said you would let me know."

Then thought better of it. He should know what he promised to tell me.

I am lonely. I am frustrated. I am angry. I am sad. I am hurt. I am...close to the end of my rope. But you know what, I am enough of a competitor, and enough of a b*t$ch that I will not give him up this easily. What a tough place to be in.

ISG

Isgirl,

You can email me at starfish4729@hotmail.com

Then maybe we can message??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello Everyone,

Today I received an email from my WH, saying he didn't think he'd ever find the right counselor, but talked about Promise Keepers and also about a counselor he had used 10 years ago. He asked me if I wanted him to keep my updated on his counseling.

You'd be proud: I re-wrote a PBL, included all the necessary stuff, plus told him:

"I care very deeply about your efforts at counseling. I care that you are seeking the help that we both feel you need. But because you are continuing this affair, I will have to trust you, trust God and trust the counselor(s) to bring about improved health for you. I just can't be an ongoing part of the process until you are ready to tell me the affair is over. At that time I will look forward to hearing from you. We'll have a lot to talk about."

Back to DARK!

I cannot even begin to tell all of you what your support means to me. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart!

))))) standing * ovation (((((

X'celent response!

I am impressed.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep!

I am humbled in the presence of the Pepperband! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I am grateful for your applause. You're a tough critic, and your opinions are appreciated more than many of us allow ourselves to admit.

I feel very strong and proud of my ability to declare my needs, my demands in this relationship. I feel, rightly or wrongly, that this was the right approach, and that it may bring about some sanity on the part of my WH.

...only time will tell.

Thank you most kindly for your praise.

ISG

ISGirl,

I agree, great reply!
NW

Hi Guys,

Not much new, but like Mimi, didn't like my thread disappearing to the second page! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Friday nite I went straight from work to meet some friends. Didn't come home first. Interesting: when I did get home, I discovered my WH's cell phone number on the caller ID. No message had been left. He had called about 7:50pm. Don't know what that was about. Don't know if he thought I would pick up the phone if I saw it was him, who knows?

Rah! Rah! for the First Page Plan Bers!!!

He was, at the least, thinking about you in order to call you. He is missing you. I would predict that the honeymoon phase is over for them. Hopefully, you will be stronger than me and NOW WHAT and not answer when he calls next time. It probably will be soon.

Yes,

Take it from me and Mimi. DO NOT answer the phone call. I recently did because I thought that it was someone else calling. It was actually W calling using this other person's cell phone with a stupid question, "Did you buy oldest daughter a back pack for school?" This after I mailed to her several days prior the school supply list at her request. I also mailed a check to pay for these things and school clothes. Why would I buy the back pack? Why was it the back pack she had to ask about, why not a pair of socks or a note book? Who the hell knows but as I said before, DO NOT answer the phone! Can you sense my frustration? Read the last few pages of my thread, learn from me, learn from Mimi.
NW

Here's the perfect book for you to read whilst applying a loving DARK Plan B to your WH's affair ....

Written by Jill Conner Browne

The book is:

The Sweet Potato Queens' Book Of Love

It is better than Prozac. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It does have a common side-effect ..... known around these parts as ROFLOLPIMP

Might as well make Plan B enjoyable!!!!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep,

That reminds me. I lost my SWEET POTATO QUEEN's BOOK in my move. You are right. What a wonderful find for a PLAN Ber!!!!!

Mimi and Now What,

Thanks for the advice. Yes, I will follow. I had been thinking about that earlier. Last time, he called, stated he was finished with thw OW, ready to write the NC letter. I invited him over, we talked, I guaged his readiness, listened to the words, and let him move in. Obviously, a mistake. For you'll recall that almost as soon as he moved back in, I could tell his resolve was weakening. I'm not sure how to be able to tell if that will happen again, but we WILL have some agreements, one of which is that he WON'T simply move out again without saying a word. No more running away. We will face our problems head-on. I think we should even have something - an agreement - that we both sign.

This time, it is not so much just giving up OW. I need to KNOW what his plans are for the M, for recovery. What is he willing to do for Protection, for balance in our lives (POJA)? I think it is probably healthy for him to live alone for a while with NO ONE. No OW, no W. I don't think it is a good idea to hop from the comfort of the OW into the comfort of the W and his home. Let him be totally alone. Let him think. Let him go thru IC, if he is enrolled.

Now, opinions: during that time, when he is "readying" himself to go to work, does contact between WH and W resume? I would think so but I am surely no expert here.

Pep, I will check into the book. Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Guys,

A quick update. Last night I had a two-hour conversation with an old friend that I have known for over 25 years. He's married, early 50's, with kids. The purpose of the phone call was to give him the story of my life, currently. He knew we were separated, but that is all. He was great, very supportive. Non-judgemental.

Now here is something that stood out in our conversation. He said he believes much of my WH's problems relate to male mid-life crisis. My H's first A was 11 years ago, at age 40. Current A began at age 50. I always considered it a strange coincidence that they were almost exactly 10 years apart, by my H poo-poo'd the idea "What is magical about 10 years that isn't about 6 or 8?"

Well, my friend last night said he has been struggling with MLC for over 10 years, in counseling, buying himself "toys," etc. It started when he turned 40. Never had an A, however. He said, "It is too painful for all involved." Amen, brother.

My friend, a couple of years ago, told his W that he was thinking seriously about Dv. That they would "get through the holidays with the kids" and then take the necessary steps. He said he was unhappy, his needs were not being met and he didn't want to live the rest of his life like this. His W pondered on this a couple of days, then suggested they go away, just the two of them. They spent a long weekend, just talking about the relationship. W admitted there were lots of things she had neglected. H honestly admitted his needs; she hers.

They worked on it and are still together, happy.

Now I gotta tell you. This made me very sad, because this is exactly what I, and many of us, have missed: the honesty of our spouses, coming to us and telling us there is a problem, there is something missing. Instead, our spouses chose to create secret lives, to have affairs, to lie, cheat and deceive.

Honesty and respect. That is what my friends each gave each other during their time of marital crisis.

How I wish each of us here can find that in our marriages. How I hope each of us with WS's experience an awakening in their WS, that creates a relationship based on dignity, respect, admiration, and above all, honesty.

Hugs to All.

ISG

All I can say is "You are so rignt".

It's Me, MIMI, with a 50-year-old WS, having a mid-life crisis. YUK!!!!

Bumping. No real news, no developments. My WH is still spending weekends with the OW. He is making no motions about wanting to come and work on our M.

I am hanging in there, trying to rebuild a social life, but it is hard when you are the one unattached woman in coupleworld. I have no friends who aren't married. It is tough.

No follow up words from H's brothers. I guess my reaching out to them, telling them about the A, while initially they rallied around me, they have now talked with WH and I hear nothing from them. I had hoped that their caring would perhaps make WH see what he was doing, possibly throwing away, but I guess not.

Today I am feeling pretty low, pretty sad. I am so tired of this. Many days I am living without pain, but every once in a while it rears its ugly head. Today is one of those days. And it hurts like H#&&.

Hi ISGirl

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am lonely. I am frustrated. I am angry. I am sad. I am hurt. I am...close to the end of my rope. But you know what, I am enough of a competitor, and enough of a b*t$ch that I will not give him up this easily. What a tough place to be in.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't got a clue how your words felt mine. You are in plan B. And I want to go there for your resons, but don't for the same.

Yes plan B is a pain. Been there (not with all it took), and I'm back on plan A. It's easier, at least for me.

Hang there. Today I was thinking, and keep in mind I'm not ready yet to plan B, but I will tell you this to support you, that for me, is about fear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Fear that all I planted could go to the drain and never flourish again?. That would be a blow to myself.

But in truth, I know I don't have the answer for that.

I know I did a good job as well as you know you did. And only God, and time will tell.

One of the really things that is hard on plan B, is not knowing. In my case, I don't know if my H is still into the A. All points on that he is. But I don't really know.

In your case, you indeed know, and as crazy as it is, I rather know, and think it's better you know why? Because I don't know if you have learned this or not, but the person that is in there, is not your H. I'm a true "believer" that aliens took their brains.

That is what is killing me. Red flags are there, but my H is not the same man as he was when he was into the A. He is more likely the H I used to know. And here is my dilema. He might be getting a better actor or not. Only time will tell.

But if you believe in the "aliens" theory. And I know this will not make your plan B easier. You can keep calm. Because there is so much you can do until the "fog" lift.

Be patiente, be calm and keep the faith. Sooner or later it will lift. It's the waiting and not knowing that kills us. Look for your strenght in whatever you love must, this is not going to last forever.

I will be praying for you

Hi IS!
Just getting a minute to read your last few posts.
I really know what you mean about the honesty thing. That's the thing that bothers me the most, is never having a chance to "fix" whatever was wrong with our M, never having WH come to me and say, something isn't working here for me, what should we do about it. Actually, he knew I wasn't happy with our present situation, his working on the road, and I pretty much thought he felt the same and that his coming home was right around the corner and we would make things right. Surprise to me when I discovered the A and WH decided not to come home!
ANyways, it's been an interesting week here, with the Protection order, repossesion of the car, etc.
Last night I had the whole Football team here after practice for a potluck!! Yeah I'm crazy, but it went well, they stayed outside, the coaches were here too and it only lasted about 2 hrs. THen S had a few friends over and they had a campfire.
WH called during the football thing, talked to S, asked where I was (he wanted to make sure I was not on my way down there!! LOL), S said I was talking to his coach.
I"m glad that he knows that I had the team here, it shows him that life hasn't stopped for us, we are not sitting around crying in our beer!!! And that I continue to be the "involved" parent!
He's coming up tomorrow, sunday, to meet the Bankruptcy Lawyer and sign papers, I have no idea if he plans on coming here to see the kids, I need to make some calls today and find out if he was served the Protection order yet. He may not even know about it yet!
Hang in there IS, and I want you to know that I am proud of you, the way you have let everyone on the PB Support thread feel welcomed and heard. I will try to give you a hand if I can, I know it's a lot of work. Lately, I've just been doing quick lurk bys!
Talk soon,
Shug.

Matilde,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But if you believe in the "aliens" theory. And I know this will not make your plan B easier. You can keep calm. Because there is so much you can do until the "fog" lift.

Be patiente, be calm and keep the faith. Sooner or later it will lift. It's the waiting and not knowing that kills us. Look for your strenght in whatever you love must, this is not going to last forever. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The problem I am experiencing is that I am not a "wait for it to happen" person. I am a take-charge person and I hate it when I have nothing to do to help a situation or make changes happen. I know and understand the advice, but patience in such circumstances is not a virtue I own. That's just my way, and thus my frustration. Sitting around and waiting for the fog to lift is excrutiatingly painful to me.

Thanks for your thoughts and for pumping me up! Just being able to exchange feelings on this board helps - a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Shugah,

Now first off, before you go off telling me you're proud of me, let me give you a belated Attagirl for showing up at your WH's bar! I laughed so hard I nearly ... well, you know! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So Shugah, I am proud of you, gal, for doing that. Gutsy wench, you are! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am also proud of you for the football thing. Crazy? Not in the slightest. You surrounded yourself with people, you are indeed the responsible parent, and WH knows your life is moving along! Bully for you!

The lying thing weighs very heavily on my mind. I don't know if you can change a lyer into an honest person. Perhaps, through counseling, the person can learn to not avoid conflict by hiding out in deceit, I just don't know. I do know it will be the #1 requirement on my list for any reconciliation efforts. Absolutely not a single lie will be stood for, and that means lies of omission as well as commission. If WH can't be honest with me, we have no future. And I think the honesty begins inside...being honest with yourself first. Obviously, WS's aren't honest with themselves or they wouldn't find themselves in Fogland.

Thanks for posting. Keep in touch.