My fwh had a 14 month affair that just ended (as far as I know) this past January. He lied about everything , repeatedly, for a l-o-n-g time. Since the apparent end of his A, and our pitiful attempt at recovery, he sees things as good, and I am miserable. We've tried counseling, read the book, done the surveys, all to no avail. He is a conflict avoider who is most concerned with himself. He's basically a nice guy, and the A was really out of character for him.

Here's the problem. I have felt nothing but devistated by his A (and other things I found out about him after the 'truth' came out) and I do not love him anymore. My needs- all but the financial one have gone completely unmet since shortly after we married. I had asked many times if we could get help. He always said everything was fine. He is unwilling to do the work of recovery, yet says we're recovered and will make it. He refuses to get to the 'why' of the affair or process any of it, or even talk about much of it. We have 2 young sons whom I adore, and I will stay in this unhappy marriage for them.
But I really screwed up.
I gave up on the marriage after he finally admitted the truth, in January. I feel alone, unloved, rejected- and yes, I have told him these feelings.
Then along comes 'Ed' (not his name), quite a bit younger than me, single, very attractive, perfectly sculpted, fun and vivacios man who was instantly attracted to me- 31, had 2 kids, things goin' south, no self esteem, nothin but baggage. But he didn't care.
To make this shorter- I'm now involved with him.
I know it's wrong, I just don't know how to get out. This is not a revenge affair. It's selfish, but it's all about empty love tanks finally being filled. I know I'm being selfish. But to tell me H would almost be too satisfying. To end the A would be to go back to being dead in an dead marriage. But I know that's the right thing to do.
I guess I need some support or something to figure out how to do this.
Help. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Do let me ask you something.....

Are you happy?

Or have you gotten numb to the point that even if its pain you are feeling at least you know you have a pulse when you are having feelings?

You see most betrayed spouses tend to go numb at one point or another trying to process the betrayal.

If the wayward spouse isn't actively trying to repair the marriage when you go numb then you are very vunerable to having an affair yourself.

Deep down you know its wrong do you think feeling pain, guilt and shame is better than feeling nothing?

Because you know this relationship is going nowhere.

Sorry my dear girl .... but you are involved with a predator OM. He saw a lonely vulnerable woman, and he's using you for pleasure. And .... you're using him to avoid actually facing and solving your problems.

When do you find the time to fool around? Your 2 young sons, whom you adore, how much time with their mommie do they miss out of because she is distracted with OM?

This is a lie: "I just don't know how to get out." ..... Oh really? That's not the truth. You just don't know how to be willing to end it. You say to him, "Goodbye. What we're doing is wrong. I have less self respect due to this affair. And it is over as of now. Goodbye." You can tell yourself the lie that you don't know how to get out, we here on MB may call you on your self-deceit .... just to keep you from falling further away from being the woman you want to be.

End the affair. Tell your husband. get outside help.

Do you love your boys enough to give 110% effort over the long haul to recover the marriage and to keep their family intact?

Begin with yourself.

Strength and courage prayers going out to you and your husband. Hugs and kisses go out to your kids.

Pep

Stunned-dad- I've read many of your posts. Your wisdom and sensitivity are apparent in them all. Thank-you for your response.
Numb only begins to describe how I feel. Dead is more like it. I have not been happy for years. But in the last 18 months I have gone from unhappy to wishing I was dead.
My H followed my trial on the computer last night, read this post, and called me at work. I told him the truth. He's really pissed. I don't feel he has a right to be as pissed as he is. But her's really, really mad. I tried to explain how I feel (dead), and that I have been telling him that I feel that way for a long time. He just blew me off, and said that I can't blame him for this. In a way, he's right. I made my chioce. But I can guarantee that I never would have made that chioce if he had not destroyed me (with his A) So in reality, yes, it was his fault.
Passing the buck? No, that's not what I'm doing. He destroyed me. H took away everything from me with his A. My past is littered with sex abuse and family disappointment, and he knew that. He also knows how emotionally labile I am, and that I could not take what he did. He knew what it would do. He chose to do it anyway. For a long time. Then lie about it. Am I better? No.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"In a way, he's right. I made my chioce. So in reality, yes, it was his fault.
Passing the buck? No, that's not what I'm doing. He destroyed me. H took away everything from me with his A."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry but you leave me no choice but to use the ol' virtual 2x4 on you.

You are NOT taking responsibility for your CHOICE in having your own A(affair). How many WS's have not used that same reasoning as yours? I would wager good money that probably the vast majority have done so. Maybe even your WH is used it himself? Afterall you do state that "He's basically a nice guy, and the A was really out of character for him". What were your negative contributions to the marriage that helped to create the environment for your WH to have an A?

Have you thought about asking yourself if you are engaging in rewritting history because you are involved with another man?

You say that:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I can guarantee that I never would have made that chioce if he had not destroyed me (with his A)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I beg to differ with you because it sounds like you were the perfect candidate to have an A if your WH had not beaten you to the punch. I'm practically certain that if you had met your OM before your H started his A, that you and him would have indeed ended up where you are right now.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh and mean to you but your justifications for your A show that you ARE indeed in the fog that all WS find themselves in when they are involved in an A. Your marriage may or may not be worth saving but getting involved with another person while you are still married is definitely NOT an answer either.

What are you going to do to help yourself?

Doing:

Congra2lations for coming clean with your H. Okay, so you're both hurting. You've both given each other a wakeup call. Now's the time 2 turn this in2 an oppor2nity for personal and relationship growth, but 2 do that you've got 2 stop the blame fest.

"Passing the buck? No, that's not what I'm doing."

Bull feathers. It's exactly what you've both been doing.

"He destroyed me."

No, he didn't. His actions have certainly hurt you, but the simple truth is that your own reactions are what are destroying you. The way 2 stop this is 2 stop it. Look inside. Look at your redeeming 2ualities. Your integrity. And maybe you've compromised that, but it's still there or this wouldn't bother you at all. Look for the positive in you and in your H. Focus on those things first. Don't let the negativity overwhelm you anymore.

"H took away everything from me with his A."

How did he do this? Really. Was your well-being entirely dependent on him? I'm not picking on you here. I think we all get in2 si2ations like this because we have a tendency 2 do this - to think that it's "normal" or even good. it's not, because we are so devastated when our spouse does something thoughtless and selfish like having an A.

"My past is littered with sex abuse and family disappointment, and he knew that. He also knows how emotionally labile I am, and that I could not take what he did. He knew what it would do. He chose to do it anyway. For a long time. Then lie about it. Am I better? No. "

WSs all lie for a long time. They have 2, unless the A is part of some "open M" agreement (yecch!). And no, you're not better, but you're not worse, either. You're probably human. Most people are.

Time 2 2rn this around and take the oppor2nity 2 grow. $h!t-can the OM. He's a predator, as Pepper said.

please take care,
-2long

H came home unexpectedly from work yesterday when I was in the middle of typing. I never got to finish my first thought, so I'll do that here:
Pepperband- my 'little boyfriend' as my H so sarcastically calls him- was a victim of me. I was the instigator; he, the very willing participant. But I was in the driver's seat the whole time. He's 21 for pete sake. (yes, I'll take my lashings now) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I made the choices I made, because like Stunned-dad said, it felt good to feel something. I DO take responsibility for my choice. And I have had P-l-e-n-t-y of other opportunities in out 3 1/2 year marriage to cheat. Before H's A, I WAS able to stay faithful. The problem in our marriage before the A is that it was very lopsided. I held us together. I got tired of it. I let go. He fell out. Bounced back. Knocked me off balance. I fell out. Now we have to figure out how to strike some balance and make this work.
I agree that I'm kinda foggy. I've been foggy for a little more than a year now. Living with H's fog, which took a long time to clear, made it really hard to see what's really real around here. We need a light house.
2long, he pushed me over the edge. He knew I was teetering. He knew I wasn't emotionally stable. He knew what I've been through. The A was bad enough- I handled that. But the months of lies and deception that followed were more than I could take. That, and having a baby in the middle of it all. I have considered suicide, and actually did consider it last night. He DID push me over the edge. I am unstable. Can't take the drugs. 4 Therapists haven't helped. My faith has been shaken. I have noting left. Nothing. No self esteem. No value. Nothing.
So last night....H was really pi**ed off. Refused to see the relationship between his A, the unwillingness to deal with it, lack of recovery, and where I am now. I didn't do this to spite him. I didn't. It felt good to be wanted. I don't feel that at home.
He had a lot of nasty words. Wanted to know all the little details. Funny, because when I first learned of his A, he refused to tell the details, and said if he were me, he'd never want to know. I didn't lie about anything. He says my 1 week A is much worse than his 14 month A, because of where we were in our marriage. I don't get that, so if it's th efog, help me out. See, when he had his A, things were supposedly fine. Yes, your normal early marriage challenges. But we were coasting along, and I was thinking everything was ok. Then -BAM! His A. So we're thrown into turmoil. In and out of MC, more lies, continued contact, I keep telling him" we need to get to the 'why' I can't process this without the 'why' he keeps saying 'lets just move on' and nothing changes. He's still off in his own little world, and I feel alone and angry and bitter. So I fall into a 1 week A with a friend at work (yes, we will be working different, non intersecting shifts now) and come clean about it and end it (it's done) right away. Yet somehow what I did was worse. WHAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Bad, yes. Wrong, yes. Worse? Never. No way.
Fog? Whose fog is it anyway? Both?
I never would have cheated if he hadn't. That was a blow I could not stand up against. I've been hurt by sex too many times. I believed in my H. I believed he would protect me from that pain. He knew my past. He made things hell on earth for me. Nobody's given me the 'tools' to fix my broken world. ANd H is nothing but nasty and vindictive.
Not right. I would expect that he would be upset. Disappointed. Hurt. Angry.
But certainly not the holier-than-thou attitude I'm getting.
I don't know what's next. My A is done. I am disappointed with myself for what I did. I am disgusted with H's reaction. I love my 2 boys. They keep me here. Alive. Maybe they need me. Then again, maybe they'd be better off without me.

Doing- Wow, where to start? You have gotten some great responses from others here, it is time to heed their advice. Look inside you and admit the truth.

"He's 21 for pete sake. (yes, I'll take my lashings now)"

I won't lash you for this, you are already doing that on your own...

"The A was bad enough- I handled that. But the months of lies and deception that followed were more than I could take."

Welcome to the world of the BS. You ahve just made you H join that world also. Have you not lied to him? Deceived him?

"Can't take the drugs. 4 Therapists haven't helped. My faith has been shaken. I have noting left. Nothing. No self esteem. No value. Nothing."

That truely is sad. What drugs do you mean? Anti-D's? If so why can't you take them?

"I keep telling him" we need to get to the 'why' I can't process this without the 'why' he keeps saying 'lets just move on' and nothing changes."

You are like me in this regard, I too am struggling to make sense out of a purely selfish and senseless action. That is what an A is, it is all about my happiness at the expense of others. Very selfish.

"Yet somehow what I did was worse. WHAT?"

You both screwed up. You are both human. Now it is time to look inward and see how BOTH of you have contributed to the downfall of your M. Like 2long said, this is the time for personal growth. Look inward and see what YOUR shortcomings are. Your H has them also and he will need to do the same.

"Nobody's given me the 'tools' to fix my broken world."

You have the 'tools' that you are looking for. Currently you are looking outside for those tools, you need to look inside of yourself. You possess those tools you just don't know what drawer they are in so you can't find them. Study the MB concepts and put them to work in your M. You said your H followed you here, hove you tried to get him to read this stuff? If you study the MB concepts we can help you to put them into practice in your M.

First you both need to end the A's. Sounds like that is done. Maybe quit your job so you are not around OM.

Then you need to really look inside and see what YOUR shortcomings are. How can you make your M better?

Learn and understand POJA (W is here helping me with this response and she reminded me of that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) and put it to work.

Then and only then when you are both out of the fog can you look and see if you still love your H or ever will again.

Doing, you have a long and dificult road ahead of you but if you listen to the wonderful posters here and heed their advice you will make it!

Young Lady

Are you ready to grow up spiritually and emotionally while you learn to gain control of yourself?

Running away is easy for you. Do you have the desire to not run away?
Love,

Pep

DWHD if you TRULY want to do everything in your power to rebuild your marriage, then the first thing you will have to do is to let go of the mindset of being a victim of your H. The 'victim' mindset is a the sign of an immature mind. Unlike your children, who have NO choices, you are an adult WITH choices. You have the power and freedom to change your life.

Even if you chose to divorce your H and runaway with any OM, that 'victim' mindset of yours will follow you wherever you go and it will affect your future relationships. So forget about trying to force reason down H's 'victim' mindset throat and concentrate on doing the things that will improve yourself. Do it for yourself and for your children. If your H doesn't want to grow up and improve yourself that is his loss, but at least you will not be in his shoes. And if the time does come where you have truly improved yourself and you decide to divorce your H, then you will be ready to move on with your life without any regrets and with the certainty that you are mature to be in a relationship with a mature minded man.

You're right. I lied to my H for the last 6 1/2 months. See, He promised is A was over, then 6 months later He confessed to continuing contact. That's when I started lying, because I didn't love him anymore, but I pretended to. I hoped the love would come back. I tried to cultivate loving feelings. I tried to changed things in me. I pursued a deeper spiritual life. Alone. H doesn't believe in a relational religion. All along H maintained that things were good, while I saw no change. He totally blew off Valentines Day and Mother's day. (holidays mean a lot to me. I'd be happy with a nice card or hand written letter.) And I just didn't see any real change in the man. I WAS looking for change. It wasn't there. So yes, I lied in a way. I did tell him the night tha I found out about his ongoing A that I did not love him anymore. I should have left him then. A separation would do us both some good. I really believe that. But he would take my kids away, so I won't go that route.
See, what you don't seem to understand is this: the most important person in my H's life is my H. Always been that way.
I did lie to him in the week prior to my involovement, and the week of. And I suppose I have lied since, as I have not been honest about my state of mind. He'd have me locked up.
I cannot take anti-d's partly because I don't want to- because H says I should. He should. And my Doctor says I don't need them. But I'm a nursing mom, can't use any birth control (allergic to it all) so I don't want to put my baby at risk, or run the risk of getting pregnant on meds. Which probably wouldn't happen. H won't be wantin' sex for a long time, by the sounds of it. Funny thing. I never would have gotten away with that.
I've been trying to fix my life for years. No one seems to understand what I mean when I say God doesn't want me. I have been longing, trying not trying, praying for 20 years, and nothing. I was raised Protestant. Still go to church every Sunday (without H). God doesn't want me.
Sttsi- I know what my shortcomings are. I'm depressed. Have been for a long time. That makes everything worse.But even H said I didn't deserve what he did.
Problem is- I have a mind like a steel trap. Stuff goes in, it doesn't leave. No matter how much I want it to.
I will stay, be whatever H needs me to be, get a hystorectomy, go on drug (prescribed ones) and just exsist untill my time here is done. I'm a pretty good actress. I think I can pull it off.
I hate my life. I want to die.

As Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> stated...at some point you have to stop running, face your issues and deal effectively with them. Stop externalizing/blaming/pointing a finger. Take responsibility for yourself and your actions and do what it takes to "fix" yourself. No one can "fix" you but, you. Only you can make yourself happy...don't rely on someone else to do it for you.

<small>[ August 01, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

DWHD-

Guess what. You are me, 3 years ago. This can only STOP when YOU are ready.

1. Taking Anti-D's will NOT hurt your child through breast milk. Your DOCTOR will tell you the same so ASK stop assuming.

2. God DOES want you. He led you to MB didn't he? You have got to belive that.

3. You can feel love for your H again. You both can heal this. The question is as you were asked, Are you ready?

4. Have you read all of the information on this web-site?

5. You are NOT alone and your children need a family. Are you ready to throw that away over a 21 year old?

6. You CAN recover. I suffered from much of the same things you described. I was suicidal. I had an A. I changed. I'll share my story if you are interested. Just ask. Do you want that emptiness and dead feeling to go away? It will not be easy, but it can happen.

I know that feeling of walking into a room and feeling like everyone hates you.
I know the feeling like you have done everything for your partner and nothing you seem to do is the right thing so you give up in hopelessness.
I know the feeling where you can't even get out of bed to play with your children because you just don't want to wake up.

I also know that it can change.

Are YOU ready to face your inner fear. If so, contact me at Kily_MB@hotmail.com.

<small>[ August 01, 2003, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

It's not the 21 year old hottie, it's what I felt about ME when I was with him. Even though the good feelings were overridden by guilt and shame, I did feel good for the first time in many years. Good about me as a person, because somebody saw something of value in me. All I've heard all my life is how I screwed up. My motto inour marriage is: oh, that's right, it's my fault, not yours. Everything in my conversations with my H gets turned around on me. Everything we talk about becomes my fault. Not because I feel that way, because H says so, directly or indirectly.
Kily, I will be [censored] you. Not tonight- too busy with me kids. Baby had shots yesterday and he gets really sick from them. He needs me. Somebody does.
I've been reading on this web site for over a year, and recently changed my identity. I am very familiar with the prioncipls. I plan-A'd my H for the 3 years before we got married, and the first 2 years we were married. Then he had the A. I'm all plan A'd out.
He doesn't need to improve- thats how H feels. He went to counseling for me, not for us, not for him. There's nothing wrong with him, just ask him. The whole problem is me, or so he tells me.
So what's the point? I'll never be good enough for this man. He does not consider me an intellectual equal, even though I graduated cum laude with a 4 year degree, and he finished 3 years with a c- average. He thinks he's better than me. He treats me either like a child, or like his mother ( they have a volital relationship).
I don't expect to be treated like a princess (a girl can dream <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) But just to be treated as an equal.................
Is that a fantasy? Or does it really exsist for people?

DOING,

Here is a hard cold fact. Your H can never treat you as an equal as long as you INSIST on being the victim. You won't allow him to treat you as an equal.

Reading this post it is clear many of your issues predate even knowing your H or being married to him. I don't know his side of things, but your statements suggest that no matter what he says or doesn't say, you are NOT going to listen to him or join him in the marriage. THAT IS YOUR CHOICE AND YOU ARE MAKING IT.

Please please, go see a Doctor, get a full physical, tell him about your feelings of self-worth and how long they have existed, explain to him how you feel now, and see if something can be done to address the issues you clearly have. It could be simply depression or it could be deeper, but DOING you need to help yourself a little bit here.

I hope you do seek help, and then worry about your marriage.

God Bless,

JL

Girl-

You are me. To a tee.

I'll await your email.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I was to my doctor on Thursady. Follow up for post partum hyperactive thyroid. Great for losing weith. Really hard on my already lacking emotional stability. A whacked out thyroid cause a person to be irritable. Additionally, I am seriously deprived of sleep, because my kids like to nurse ALL NIGHT LONG. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I have other hormone (insulin and estrogen)related imbalances that contribute to the problem. There is nothing that can be done for any of these problems. My doctor and I use to work together, so there's a friendship there as well. He had me complete a screening tool for depression. He didn't say anything about it. But I can't tell you how many bridge decks I thought about running into on the way home from work today.
JL, you're right about the whole victim thing. It was a mentality taught tome first by my brother when I was 7, then again when I was 9 by a 70 year old child molester. (shall I keep going?)
I did see an IC for a while, and she talked about learned behavioral patterns from bad life experiences that affect the way you respond to things. I don't think about the things from my past when I feel like everything that's wrong in the world is my fault, but the feeling is there because of what happend so long ago. It was never dealt with properly.
Well how do you deal with it?
I am afraid to trust, listen to join in the marriage again. I am afraid to risk such pain again. I am afraid that - no matter what I do, how good I make myself, my H will always be looking somewhere else. Especially now that I have failed him.
We did have a good talk last night. And now he's actually going to bat for my OM. It's a really long and complicated story. OM and H work together and are friends, too. How complicated could this be???
Kily- tomorrow is the day.

"I am afraid to trust."

Trust starts with you.

You must learn to trust yourself.

As I said to 2Long ....

Feel your feelings.

Act using your principles.

When you recognize yourself acting with integrity and principles, you will trust yourself and your decisions.

If you continue to make decisions based on feelings and not principles, your life will be like a pong-pong ball floating on the ocean.

I don't think you should trust people who have betrayed you. That's stupid.

Do you trust yourself? Do you trust God?

Thyroid can be regulated fairly well. An endocrinologist can help.

Pep

whd-

my dad was a cm. We run a similar path. I swear, it can change.....please contact me...I've walked that path before.

Kim