Just wanted to say 'hi' and to let you know that I'm happy you're dating someone. Don't worry about rushing into things, you're a wise lady.

A Yank...wow! I wonder if our accents sound as charming to you as the British ones sound to us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A friend of mine is married to a very educated British man, and she always says that the biggest attraction for her was his gorgeous accent. (It's been a rough marriage, to say the least...with the accent as the base!) I must admit myself though I love hearing his voice on the answering machine... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care,
H_P

So, I've closed the joint account and sent the e-mail telling the evil Pound Man to leave me alone and that he has got away with the money. Pretty much like my last message said - don't contact me, wishing him well, but telling him that I know how he lied and cheated. I did use some of H_P's words (thanks H_P) about inherent value and needing to return the ring. But I also added that I was going to return it for him to sell which should adequately compensate him for the remaining items which are still at my house......

I feel sad. SS you are right, there are still scars of battle. I don't feel sad because I love or care for him. Far from it, I feel so much indifference and sadness that I was conned by this man about many different things. It is easier to get over someone when they treat you badly. What sort of a person would buy his fiance a fake diamond ring and try and pass it off as real? What sort of a person would itimidate and bully throughout the relationship? What sort of person would manipulate and cheat, but then pass it off as acceptable? Really not someone that I want to talk or think about. You are right. I don't want to come here and keep talking about him and dwelling on a past which is best there - in the past. I don't want to dwell on him anymore.

However, rather than feeling lifted and free, I feel very sad that hopes and dreams of yester-year have all crashed and faded. So many things to look forward to and work towards all gone, and instead just a nasty feeling of being conned. That's how I feel - conned, cheated, like he got one over on me all the time in 12 years, and that now, I can't even bear to think about him because the man I thought I knew doesn't even exist. I hope that with time I can forgive him and will be able to remember happy times, but now, I feel a little introspection isn't a bad thing.

Dear SS and H_P - how it lifts me a little to know that you are out there with so many other dear MB friends routing for me, willing me on, wanting me to succeed and become better. I wish I could share more about my Yank, but not now. With time, I will, but for now, I think I do finally need to grieve and cry for the loss of my M, de-clutter my mind (thanks J), shed my tears and tomorrow wake up hopefully looking forward to a new and better life. One without the evil Pound Man and Shiney Head, those nasty cartoon characters, but one where the fiesty London Girl comes through to tell the story and live another day...... Very sad this evening <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Lisa

(((((((((( Lisa ))))))))))))

You cannot get over grief until you've gone through it first.

That saying has helped me so much since Andrew died... it fits into so many different areas of life. You are still experiencing a death. It's a death of a M. You need to mourn that loss. And we're always here to help you out, if we can.

Luv ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Lisa,

He didn't really get one over on you. You know why? Your weren't playing a game, only he was. I know you still regret your A, and I think that is proper, but you didn't kill this marriage. You weren't being deceitful from the beginning, he was. He was playing so he thought and perhaps thinks he won the game.

The sad fact is that this isn't a game, and when he realizes it, he will lead a very lonely unsatisfactory life. Not a lot of folks will be lined up at his grave site, I figure.

You one the other hand gave it your best. Yes, you faultered, but you did your best to recover from that and learn from that. You KNOW this isn't a game, and because you do I suspect your life will be far richer than you imagine. Even his daughters find you a better friend, than him.

So grieve the loss, but understand YOU DID NOT LOSE. You never started his game.

God Bless,

JL

Yet again, such dear MB friends stopping by to try and put this into perspective.

I think, Karen and JL, before I was grieving the loss of my M as I thought it was and the H that I used to know. In the last few months, it is grieving a different loss, the one where H is no longer the man I thought he was, he is a stranger, who you are right JL, seemed to play a nasty game over many years.

Karen, I feel humbled that you can liken my situation to the loss of your dear child, but I thank you and your words actually with JL's helpe me to articulate what I was feeling and why it hurt so much. It was a new loss, not my M which I have already grieved for, this stranger who has done so many hurtful things, but still seems oh so familiar.

Do you know JL, tonight I was talking to my friend Brits Brat, and she said, if I took away my A, what would be left? The answer is, I would be left with me, someone who had been cheated, conned, lied to, deceived, manipulated, absued, and hurt. I would be left pretty much like a BS, which of course, I became. I never ever justify what I did, and you are right, that is the way it should be. I became a pawn in the game, and again you are right, I didn't start it. The fact that I involved myself in such an unsatisfactory manner, is still something I learn from every day.

It is a game of two parts. My grief is now in the second part, but it is a part which I think I can come to terms with much more quickly.

Thank you both for your words and support. It has taken me a few hours to try and sort out this sadness and feeling. By tomorrow after a good nights sleep, I think things will feel much calmer and better.

Lisa

Well, what a surprise, Pound Man responded to my e-mail. I did block his address, but curiosity got the better of me and I couldn't help myself but read.

How funny JL, he said to me "You and I both know the truth, but you can think you have 'won' if you want to". It was an expression so closely linked to what I had said to him (the first part about knowing the truth), but the winning part just really reinforced what you had said about his game playing.

It was quite spiteful. Even though I wished him well at the end of my message, he said "I can't wish you well". He also said the ring was real - ha ha. So now he is an expert jeweller too.

Of course I want to respond, but I won't. I knew he would react in this way. I will tell my Solicitor to re-iterate when he next writes to him that he should not contact me anymore.

How awful that it all boils down to this. I still feel sad this morning, cross by his response, but not surprised.

Thanks for listening.

Lisa

Edited to say: I almost forgot, he also said he couldn't believe how I had "bullied" him over this whole business. This hard, tough man that used to intimitdate me physically is bullied by little ole me......

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

what a jerk. but you know what, if he manages to make you feel bad, he succeeded in his cunning game. focus instead on the Tube system, NOW you have a reason to feel REALLY depressed.

Hi Lisa,

Ditto Nick - what a jerk - I think when someone responds to you with that kind of spite, its because you hit their sore spot - you hit the nail on the head with him, and he knows it, so all he can do is try to hurt you by trying to make you feel guilty again.

I am really sorry - REALLY sorry - I'm glad you put the part in about sending the ring back and the cost of it can cover the cost of the stuff he still has at your place - did you keep his £5,000 Bose stereo system, BTW? Wouldn't that be nice!!

Lisa, I'm a little out of the loop at the moment, but I do care - all this rain after so much sunshine! Feels like good old England again, doesn't it? Have you got something nice planned for the weekend? I hope so. Take care of yourself, Lisa - you are one strong lady.

All the best,
LIR

Nick, that's the problem. He did make me feel bad, he always does. This was meant to be my cleansing e-mail, my de-cluttering, get rid of him, but of course, it is me who is the bully, everyone else who tells the lies, him who bought the "real" ring in good faith.

What can I do to stop it? I guess with time and distance (i.e. not having to put up with his games anymore) it will get better. I still feel low though.

Oh LIR, how you made me laugh - Pound Man with a £5000 stereo, you jest surely!!!! Yes, the weather is a bit of a downer, but we've had a great summer. I understand fully you being out of the loop, but don't worry, we know where each other are and that we care. That's enough for now, and when you're back in the loop, perhaps we can have lunch again. I think you are right about hitting the nail on the head.

So now, I can't play anymore. For my own self worth and sanity, it has to stop. Today, I was beginning to question myself. Perhaps it is all my fault and wrong-doing.

Tonight I am going out to the West End for a girls night out and tomorrow I'm going "home" to East Sussex to visit friends. I need to find myself again, as I seem to have been recovering Lisa nicely, and then it went a bit weird.

Thanks all for the support.
Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What can I do to stop it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you can stop starting it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Don't send him e-mail, don't look for more information. Look in other places for what happened to the rest of your life. Yeah, I know, you stsill have to get over/through all the crap he threw at you, but heck, life's going to remind you of him enough as it is. Why bother to help it along in that regard?

Decluttering means throwing stuff away. Can't throw stuff away when you're throwing it in a place it'll bounce back and hurt you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So now, I can't play anymore. For my own self worth and sanity, it has to stop. Today, I was beginning to question myself. Perhaps it is all my fault and wrong-doing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, yeah, you did play your own part in all this. So you're right, "all" you have to do is stop playing that part. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Especially with him, but also in the rest of the world. If you can do that, well. That's the hard part, eh? But you'll get there, and it'll all get unweird again, never fear.

<small>[ August 29, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: J of HJK ]</small>

Well J I guess you're right. Mind you I did actually have to get in touch with him about the finances, but at least now I don't have to do that anymore.

I really do want to de-clutter. I feel I have too much junk in my life, and it would be better to downsize.

Funny you should say about looking in other places. I have just returned from a weekend away and I went back to my home town. For those of you who don't know, my Mum moved to Somerset the day before Pound Man moved out. It was a very stressful time for me, and where Mum is is very beautiful, but it really isn't "home" - where I'm from, my roots as it were.

Anyways, it was just GREAT to be back there. The weather was very kind - it was warm and sunny and going to a seaside town when it's like that is great. It just felt right to be back there and I think it is clearly something I should do more often.

Thanks for your support J.

Lisa

Lisa -

You're very welcome. If you're serious about decluttering, go join the Flylady.net mailing list. Don't even attempt to read the web site for a while, though! It's hard to follow at first. Just join the mailing list and start reading it. Delete all the Reminder e-mails at first. Read the stuff from Flylady. Read the introductory e-mail. Decide that it's goofy, but keep reading.

And then... start DOING. Me, I don't do it exactly like they do. But it's a great feeling, filling a box with things you don't love anymore and giving them away to someone who might. It's going to take me many months to go through all the nooks and crannies in my house (and my soul) to get all the clutter out.

But it's a whole lot more therapeutic than going to see my IC. (He's also our MC, and WP's IC, and served as a dv. mediator for a while too. Talk about being too involved in this...) Anyway, he basically said he didn't think I needed therapy and should go spend time doing things like shooting pool or working out.

In other words, stop cluttering up your head, J!

I think he was right, though I'm taking a different approach than he suggested. I also think that for me, this has been a crisis of faith, not a crisis of emotional illness. That, too, can be helped with a solid dose of de-cluttering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just checking in to see how you are doing!!

Hi Lisa, I thought after all your kind and helpful in put on my thread I'd go back and give your thread a good read. This one quote stood out to me: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think, Karen and JL, before I was grieving the loss of my M as I thought it was and the H that I used to know. In the last few months, it is grieving a different loss, the one where H is no longer the man I thought he was, he is a stranger, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly how I felt. First I was grieving the loss of my M, and going through the sadness that I had failed at something that was so important to me in my life's plan - my marriage. Then in the past couple of months I came to grieve the loss of my H, the one I knew, or rather the man I once thought he was. It seems to have been the necessary way my grieving had to go. I feel a lot more at peace now that I've gone through that, hopefully you will find that peace too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what a jerk - I think when someone responds to you with that kind of spite, its because you hit their sore spot - you hit the nail on the head with him, and he knows it, so all he can do is try to hurt you by trying to make you feel guilty again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone could have as easily written this remark about my H. Our H's only method to making themselves feel better seems to be through making us feel guilty, but that only happens if we let it. Remain conscious of it, don't let him control the way you feel, don't let him have any control over you or your life anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I need to find myself again, as I seem to have been recovering Lisa nicely, and then it went a bit weird. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That sort of describes me too. I was all strong and ready to divorce and move on in June, and then it went a bit wierd in July. I hit a whole new level of depression and sadness for what once was, but now was lost. But in retrospect, I guess it's good I went through that "grieving" process, so I could come out where I am now, spending much more time in my rational state and listening to that side of me, rather than letting emotions swirl and pull me down again.

You're a strong and smart girl Lisa, especially when you're GIVING advice to me usually! You'll make it through, put Pound Man and Shiney Head (the cartoon characters that they are, lol) out of your life, and you'll be so much better for it.

Just my words of encouragement today!

Jen

Hi All and thanks to SHMI and Jen for checking in.

J, I did check out the Flylady website and am going to sign up as you suggested. Thanks for the tip. Hope you're doing OK.

SHMI - I actually think I'm doing really well.
Yesterday was ESD's 19th birthday and I went to visit before she left on a weekend birthday trip away on Wednesday night. It's funny, XW1 offered me wine and to stay for dinner - I know she would never do that with Pound Man. The girls are a joy and comfort to me, especially as they get older. YSD started at "big" school this term and had a form to fill in for next of kin. She put her Mum and then asked if she could put me as her second NOK. I have to say I was very touched, and realistically, if anything happend I am nearest to her school during the day. We had a nice time.

So, to this weekend. I had been having some serious doubts about my Cuba bike ride trip (coming up in November). For those of you who don't know, OM's two best friends are booked for the trip. OM got back in touch in June/July and then disappeared again. It just bought back so much pain for me and I kicked myself for allowing it to happen. It has been on my mind again and really distressing. This Saturday was an information day for the trip. I was really scared to see the two best friends. I was even thinking of cancelling the trip because I didn't know if I could face them for 10 days.

Well, I had a "light bulb" moment. I went along and the BFs weren't even there. I know they are doing the trip for sure, and all of a sudden I thought "Why am I still allowing OM to dominate what I do in my life?" And then I decided - NO MORE, NEVER AGAIN!!!!! I am doing that trip, I have every right. I have worked hard on the fundraising, and I always wanted to go to Cuba. I should not be put off by him. I was travelling home on the train and all of a sudden a rainbow came out. It was almost prophetic. I felt liberated and free, not just from the sadness of my M breakdown, but in relation to the pain of the A and OM.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Lisa is free. Free of the guilt, shame, pain, love, despair, anger, sadness and everything else. I deserve to have another chance, I deserve to move on and enjoy my life to the fullest. I have a lovely bloke here helping me (for now anyway), and fab friends and family. Next week I'm making a trip to the States, and in a couple of months I'll be cycling Cuba. I have two marvellous SDs who love me as a parent. And I'm alive and well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jen thanks for your support, and I'm glad I can help you - I sometimes feel I am not qualified to help anyone, but it is weird how at times our paths follow so closely and we realise things at the same time. I am very much back on track now. I know I may have the odd wobble now and again, but I have so much to be grateful for and so much to look forward to. Whatever happens with you, I hope that will be what comes to you in your life soon.

I have said so many times, but I truly mean it, MB saved me and my sanity over a year ago. I am grateful that I found this site. I don't know what I would have done if I didn't. I probably wouldn't have learnt so well, and have found some wonderful new friends.

Thank you all.

Lisa

Lisa,
Glad to see that you're free at last! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I agree with you 100 percent that this MB site has been a lifesaver!

Take care and know that you've done the best you can in all of this.

Hopeful

Lisa so glad to read that yopu are finally able to properly move on rom the pain of what your X did to you. Go and enjoy this trip for yourself. Start your nw life with adventure.

Jante

H_P and Jante - thank you.

H_P, I did do my best, but I can continue to do my best in my life now, in my dealings with my girls, my family, my friends and any new R that may come may way, including the current one.

Jante, I am very excited about the adventures I have to look forward to. I haven't been to the States in two years, so it will be fantastic to catch up with my friends and the Cuba cycle will be amazing. It is a new route and will be very challenging. Must get the bike out regularly now!

Thank you both for your support and kind words.

Lisa

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 03:46 PM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Even if I don't always post to you, I think about you, and I care.

Lots of us wonder about you, and would like to know how you are - just so you know.

SS

Well, now you know that your M was doomed from the start. It wasn't anything you did during M that ended it. It was how he was when he put that engagement ring on your finger.

It's better you found out after 8 years than after 48.