Funny thing I just realized (perhaps realized again).....the BSs that post on MB generally are waiting for their WS or FWS to end their affair and/or/then decide to recommit to working on the marriage. In other words, the BS that post here want, more than anything else, to get their WS and their marriage back.

Has there ever been a BS that posted here that had a FWS that ended the A and wanted to return to the BS and the marriage, but the BS "just didn't have it in them" to take their spouse back? They couldn't find the forgiveness in their heart or they were happier without the FWS?

(I know my own situation is much more complex than that, so just take the question as it's written please!)

Just curious,

Jen

<small>[ September 07, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

JenBrown, yes, there was one lady to whom this happened. I think her name was VenusEnvy. She tried and tried to get her WS back and then eventually decided she he wasn't what she wanted anyway! As soon as she decided she didn't want him back, he was pursued her aggresively. She did forgive him, she just didn't want him. The last we heard, she was blissfully happy in a new relationship with a man who adored her.

Hi Jen,
I was thinking of you just yesterday and decided that I needed to post a thread checking up on you. And here you are today!

Hope you've had a good summer.

As far as your question goes, I've never read of a BS who posts here who won't take back someone after an affair.

There are many BSs like that, but they don't come here to a marriage building site that I've seen BUT I'm sure there might be some I've missed. I know at times I've seen posts where BSs are naturally 'on the fence' and not sure what to do.

Please post an update on your life and the situation, when you have time!

My good news:
BTW after coming here a year and after ending the A over a year ago I'm seeing a bit of progress towards reconciliation.

As JL always says, "Patience and time."

TAke care,
H_P

I think you may already know my story - maybe not, but my BS (MJR2003) does occasionally post here, and he is still struggling with the idea of whether we will be able to continue or not.

He basically puts it like this - he loves me, and cannot think of a life without me, but with his beliefs and what I have done (and us not having children, etc), he is not sure if being with me is the best thing for him.

So I guess he just hasn't determined yet whether he has it in him to take me back. Currently, he says he is starting to see me as a friend again. But he also says a lot that he cannot see himself getting past what I did.

Feel free to post to him if you have any questions - we usually post on recovery. I have followed your story, and have noticed some startling similarities sometime. The main difference is the length of my A (4 months), the # (my first) and the fact that we are still living together. But almost everything else is similar.

I constantly wish you peace with yourself. It seems as if you know what you need to do, but that you are still holding onto guilt. I completely empathize, and wish I could say something really insightful......but all I can say is I'm trying my best to not let my past define who I am now and who I want to be in the future. But it also seems as if you are doing that as well.

Good luck, Jen Brown. Wishing you much deserved peace.

Jen, I just did a search and it looks like someone already told you about her when you asked this question in your previous thread. Did you read her final parting post? http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=020498

How I hope and pray that this is not what happens to me.
I feel so drained so often.
Plan A is so difficult.
I pray to God everyday that my marriage will still be there when the wanderings stop and my H comes back to the marriage. I have forgotten who H is in a marital situation. It has been so long. The thought frightens me. I try not to think about it.

Let us say a prayer for all the BSs out there who are fighting with all they have to get the WS back into the marriage.

xo
H.

Oh gee whiz, thanks MelodyLane, I did do a big search and read a bunch of VenusEnvy's posts once, a few months or so ago. Funny how she "got her spouse back" and then decided that he wasn't what she wanted anyway. I've actually gotten to a point where I don't think my H is what I want anyway.

hopeful_person, it's good to hear from you. I am so happy to hear you report that you're seeing a bit of progress! Yes, patience and time, but it's been 15 months of separation, and I've lived on my own for over a year.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

lostintx, thanks for your post. I may just wander over to In recovery to skim some of your/his posts. The big difference between your H and mine is that yours actually still tells you he loves you...he just sounds a whole lot kinder than my H (as he treats me now). You're all too right about the guilt. It's still niggling at me, even though I've consciously tried to work at putting it to rest. My H is a master of manipulating me through guilt too, which hasn't helped. At least I'm aware of that now though, and won't be further manipulated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> all I can say is I'm trying my best to not let my past define who I am now and who I want to be in the future </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Indeed, that is what I am doing too. I am happy with who I am. I just still suffer from some sadness and regret over failing at my M, and letting it get as bad as it did. I'm also struggling with watching what seems like almost everyone around me getting pregnant and going on to the next phase of what WAS my life plan, while I go backwards. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

When I look back now, I see it all sliding downhill 4 or 5 years ago, when I started letting my H have his first close female friend, and then several months later I had my first sort of affair, when I fooled around with (non-sexual) a male friend of ours. Communication broke down, I avoided conflict, alcohol consumption increased on both our parts, etc. Now I know better. I just can't be bothered to have more than 1 or 2 drinks anymore, I know what kind of trouble I let alcohol get me into, and I know how stupid I act and look when I'm drunk too. That and I'd never let a spouse of mine ever have a close friend of the opposite sex ever again. I know I can't handle it.

Hypatia, perhaps we could add to that prayer, and pray for all BS and FWS who are fighting with all they have to get their spouse and their marriage back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hmmm....how to quickly summarize where I am at....without attracting the same posts that drove me away from this board the last time (although I also thought it was a healthy choice to take an MB break and just live life)....here goes....

My H and I are both teachers and had all of July and most of August off. During the first couple weeks of July, I was really depressed and sad, as I figured this was an excellent opportunity for us to really try spending some time together. He couldn't be bothered, as he claimed I'd set him back to square one in June by starting divorce proceedings without warning him. (Things hadn't changed in months, so I decided to get the ball rolling.) He CLAIMS he had intended to try spending some time away with me this summer, until I hurt him beyond belief by trying to "sue" him and filing for divorce without warning him. He says I tried to "sue" him because I didn't stick to our original homemade separation agreement, since our house has gone up 10% or more in value in the last year, and quite frankly, my lawyer told me I should therefore ask for more.

Since he was so upset, and claimed he had just gotten to the point where he wanted to try when I had bad timing and got the divorce procedures rolling, I got my lawyer to halt everything for the time being. I said fine, I'd give him some more time, but we didn't agree on anything exact.

This summer, he took female friend #1 on vacation with him for a week camping in July, and then in August my MIL invited his other female friend on the annual family fishing trip (that used to have strict FAMILY only rules, until my FIL passed away this year). Did he take a trip with me, even though both I and his mom suggested it, and he claimed he'd considered it? Noooo.

After I realized he'd taken off on a trip with female friend #1 in mid-July (without telling me, I had to do some investigating), I got busy and filled my summer with some small trips and time with my girlfriends and family. I have to say I really didn't miss him that much at all, especially since every time I have interacted with him for the longest time, it's just made me very upset. He doesn't care about how I feel at all (he's even said this!). He sees himself as a victim entitled to an eternity of doing whatever suits him, and making me wait for as long as he bloody well feels like. He figures he's entitled to "get over" his dad's death before he should have to deal with me. He feels completely entitled to his 2 female friends, and holds me responsible for his CHOOSING to cut off all contact with the rest of his friends, not just OM, because he was dumb enough to tell them all I cheated on him, and now he's embarrassed (he thinks they all think he couldn't meet my needs, etc.) He's lied to me on several occasions, about things like saying he slept with a couple of women he picked up at the bar, and then saying it was all an elaborate lie, after he put me in a very upset state.

I think he is just content to not divorce me, and keep me in the wings, maybe get some occasional sex from me, and go about his life. He's living in our beautiful house, so he has no motivation to end things from a financial viewpoint. Myself on the other hand, I need this divorce to go ahead before I can do anything like purchase a new place to live. I'm also really tired of telling white lies to people that don't know we're separated (primarily people I work with), just in case we actually work it out.

Right now, I honestly do not want to remain married to this man. He is not the husband I knew and loved at one time. I still love him, but I don't like him the way he is. Granted, I hurt him horribly, but I ended the affair with d-day and never looked back, and always wanted to save our marriage. My patience has worn thin. He's tired me out, and I am pretty sure I just want my freedom now.

What is important to him right now are: alcohol, pornography, his 2 female friends, his brothers, and his mom. He has even said that his mom takes priority over me.

Quite frankly, I am excited about the notion of removing my H from my life and finding a man someday that will appreciate me for who I am as I am, and treat me with the love and kindness that I deserve.

My H is going to have to come at me with a COMPLETELY different attitude when he next contacts me, or I'm done. (He's been home since last Wed., and hasn't contacted me. I've decided not to contact him for now.) If he doesn't contact me though....then I guess I'll give it 2-3 weeks (I'll let the crazy-busy nature of the first couple weeks of work do its thing), then contact him.

We haven't talked since the end of July actually. I honestly don't know if in that conversation he thinks he made it clear divorce was his choice, or if things are still left open. I'm going to paste in a bit of that phone convo here (I wrote it down in my journal), maybe someone can tell me what it sounds like we left things at: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He went on about how I should be happy that he finds me attractive. I said I am but I wish he would say something else positive about me. I’m just a sex object to him, then he called me selfish again, said I always was and always will be. I told him he thinks he’s superior to me, always acted like he was, and probably always will act like he is. He said “write up the papers.”.........He also said somewhere in there that I never had to have sex with him again. I repeated again that it’s not that I don’t want to have sex with him, but that I want so much more than that......I said wouldn’t it be worth it to try spending 5 uninterrupted days together before we give up? I told him I’d even give him the 3 weeks of camping to think about it, to which he gave no response....He said okay, goodbye then, and I said “I love you, and I always will.” And then he hung up, click. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really, I'm giving him 2 choices when we next talk: work on this marriage for real, NOW, starting with dates in public at least OR divorce, NOW. No more punishing me by dragging this out.

If he does say he wants to be with me and try at it, I will give it a go (and stick to my word that that is what I wanted). But I think I have a better chance of winning the lottery than ever hearing him utter such a statement. (Oh wait, I can't buy lottery tickets because if I win, I have to give him half. lol)

To a degree, I am nervous about calling him or meeting with him, because simply seeing the man that I love(d?) so much, who is just so darn familiar to me, might just drain up all of my rational resolve. But I just have to force myself to be strong I guess. I also am going to do my darndest to not ever cry like a baby in front of him again. I've done way too much of that.

So, if you would like to comment or offer thoughts on my situation, go ahead. But be warned, I will take what I like and leave the rest (just like we're supposed to do on MB)!

Sorry the update was so long, it has been a couple of months! Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

Jen

WOW. My H just showed up here. We chatted for about half an hour. He drank the 3 beer that I had in my fridge in that time. He was going to leave after that until I said no, please have at least one glass of water before you drive anywhere, but he gulped it down and left.

I didn't try to bring up serious stuff at all, I didn't reach out to him at all, other than a sort of pat on the shoulder on his way out. So no, we didn't exactly discuss relationship stuff. We chit chatted about work, exercising, the battle of the bulge (we both put on weight this summer), and his family camping trip.

Apparently Arlene (one of his female best friends) is now dating his youngest brother. She's 26 or 27, he's 23 I think. This is something my H was originally kind of excited about (them getting close), but now he hates it. He says he can't be best friends with her anymore if she's dating his brother. He says they (my H and Arlene) hardly said two words to each other in the three weeks they were away camping with the family. I asked him how come he can't be best friends with Arlene when his brother's dating her. He said he just can't talk to her about everything anymore if she's dating his brother, that it's wrong. So I gently said, but it was fine when we were married, so why is it a problem now? He said well, he's my brother that's why. Pause. Well, I guess it wasn't right then (when we were married) either. I said I know that was partly my fault for encouraging it too, so I don't really have a place to complain. But wow, I'm impressed he realizes that it's wrong to be best friends with a woman while she's in a relationship with another man. That's one small step.

He said somewhere in the midst of things that I am the one that brought us one step closer to divorce (with my filing in June). I didn't really respond to that.

He's still very negative and depressed. He still says he hates everyone. He says life sucks and it won't get any better. I said it's a matter of "choosing your attitude" towards life, but he was annoyed at that, even though I tried to say it in a joking tone.

We were reminiscing about how we were the happiest together when we were "fat", and ate whatever we wanted and didn't exercise. Our marriage and closeness sort of went downhill after that I think in retrospect. (It's when the exercising started that he added Arlene to our lives, b/c he needed someone else to exercise with when I was too busy with work.) He sort of confessed something quite sad sounding to me...the main reason why he wanted to start exercising and losing weight is b/c all of his male friends kept saying to him, "How did YOU get Jen?" (As in how did FAT you get Jen?") Now I realize that in part, he may have been saying this to tug at my heartstrings, or maybe he was just being painfully honest about how much it hurt him. I reminded him that they didn't know the inner him that I loved, but he just said oh whatever.

I worry about him to some degree, but he is choosing to be miserable and isolate himself as he does. He is certainly one sad soul, at least as he portrays himself to me. He needs to do something to be happier, but seems to have resigned himself to sadness and loneliness. I can't rescue him, he has to rescue himself. But, being completely honest here, I am nervous to demand a divorce for fear I send him off the deep end.

Oh yeah, one other interesting tidbit, I joined the same gym as Carolyn, his other female best friend. He said oh great, so I guess you're going to kill her when you see her, and I said no way, I just won't talk to her. I gave him a few examples of how I just can't be bothered to act out about those girls anymore, it's not worth my time, it doesn't accomplish anything.

Oh also, he joked that he hoped to show up and "interrupt me and my boyfriend". I reminded him that I will not try to seek out anyone else so long as we're married, and even if we do go ahead with a divorce, that I wouldn't remove my wedding band or even think about dating anyone else until it was all final.

Before he left I asked him if he ever happened to decide to drop by again if he could possibly bring me copies of some of our favourite recipes that I didn't bring with me when I moved out, and then he was off. No hugs, no kisses, just a pat on the back of sorts from me.

I don't know what to do. I feel a little like I ought to try to be a friend to him, since he seems to need one. But for how long?

I didn't cry at all! I remained calm and in control the whole time! YAY!

But where is my life and our relationship going next? Still only God knows. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen

Jen:

"I love reminiscing with people I've never met" -Stephen Wright.

Not that I'm suggesting you never "met" your H, but I get the feeling that you 2 never really got 2 know each other. And before he can get 2 know you again, he's got 2 face himself, get 2 know himself, learn 2 love himself, and then learn 2 love and respect those around him.

...he's megaparsecs from being able 2 do that right now, Jen. ...maybe someday.

In the meantime, I like the sound of your posts right now. I think you're going 2 be fine. Keep giving YOU time.

all my best,
-ol' 2long

<small>[ September 02, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Hey Jen glad to hear that you are somewhat at peace with things even though they didn't work out as you wanted.

Take care.

Jen:
This is just my opinion but it is time to move on and find someone who you respect and who will respect you. You want to be married and have children. Your husband is so into himself that it is unbelievable. He is also an alcoholic and would be a terrible role model for children. You are wasting your time with this self-centered selfish manipulative man. I honestly do not think
he has the capacity nor desire to love and respect anybody but himself. You are wasting time and energy on this guy. He has the best of all worlds living in the house, have close female friends, having you apologize over and over again and so forth. He is a teacher and drinks three beers in a short time and drives off in a car endangering himself and other innocent people?
Open your eyes and you will realize he will end up hurting and emotionally abusing you forever if you let him. He is a spoiled little man who will drag you down and everyone with him in the end or possible kill somebody when he is driving drunk.
Wake up, move on and close this chapter in your life because you have a new chapter and a new life if you want it so stop wasting your time.
I wish you luck.

Jen:
This is just my opinion but it is time to move on and find someone who you respect and who will respect you. You want to be married and have children. Your husband is so into himself that it is unbelievable. He is also an alcoholic and would be a terrible role model for children. You are wasting your time with this self-centered selfish manipulative man. I honestly do not think
he has the capacity nor desire to love and respect anybody but himself. You are wasting time and energy on this guy. He has the best of all worlds living in the house, have close female friends, having you apologize over and over again and so forth. He is a teacher and drinks three beers in a short time and drives off in a car endangering himself and other innocent people?
Open your eyes and you will realize he will end up hurting and emotionally abusing you forever if you let him. He is a spoiled little man who will drag you down and everyone with him in the end or possible kill somebody when he is driving drunk.
Wake up, move on and close this chapter in your life because you have a new chapter and a new life if you want it so stop wasting your time.
I wish you luck.

Well look who's back, the prodigal daughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm glad your back because I, as well as others, have missed you.

Jen, if you don't mind my condescending question, when are you going to move on?

Hey Jen

I've been wondering about you recently. Glad to see you are back.

Jen, do you know, for the first time ever, I agree with BryanP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Jen, I believe that your H was only upset about DV proceedings, because he had not made the decision to do that. How dare you decide that you no longer want to wait around for him and are actually going to move on with your life after more than a year of remorse, shame, guilt, sorrow, etc. etc.? What more do you have to do to show him that you repent, that you are truly sorry for what you did? I'm sorry, even if you did get back together, I believe this is what you would live with - he would constantly blame you for everything that is wrong in his life. Every row you had, it would be your fault because you had the A, every disagreement would be your fault.

Jen, if I didn't know you better and read your two last posts, I would think it was different people. The first post is Jen, with NC (kind of a forced Plan B as he choose not to be in touch). This Jen is strong, she has come to terms with her own failings and has worked oh so hard to put it right. She knows realistically, that it takes two to make or break a M, and she can't keep working on it by herself. She can't keep taking responsibility for her X and trying to fix him, because only he can do that.

Now the second Jen, well, I'm not quite sure who she is or what she wants. She thinks she can fix things and that if she files for DV it would be her that sends H over the edge. I just think H is manipulative - why did he turn up un-announced after nearly 4 weeks NC? What was his visit for? Jen, you really can't fix him or be responsible for his mental state. He has to start to fix that for himself.

Jen, I had a conversation with my X, Pound Man, and it really reminds me of what your X does.

Pound Man: "You devastated me, I don't know if I can ever really get over it"

Lisa: "Oh yeah, well why are you living with someone else a matter of months later?"

On the Police situation...

"It was your fault that I did that"

Lisa: "The Police told you that if you did anything else they would arrest you. You choose to do something else 4 days later, you have to take responsibility."

Pound: "I tried everything to make this work, I cleaned the house from top to bottom" (that just makes me laugh, but I can imagine your H saying something similar about his efforts)

Pound: "It took me years to come to terms with my infidelity (W No.1), it will take you years too"

Lisa: "No actually, I've come to terms with it already"

Does any of this seem familiar to you? And oh boy Jen, did he heap the guilt on to me. Jen, do you know what, I don't feel guilty anymore, and you know how bad I was when I first came here.

Anyways, I'm sorry this is so long, and I hope I'm not lecturing you, but sometimes, my heart bleeds for you. Jen, you deserve so much better, and Jen, there is hope. I'm going out with someone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I never expected to meet someone so soon, and it really wasn't planned (friend of a friend's). But he's lovely, normal (well ish, because he is a Yank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), I know he would never raise his hand to me, and he really seems to care about me. Jen, he's not the love of my life, and I don't think it will go anywhere too far, but when you're free in your heart from manipulation and fear, there are chances for someone else to come along.

Take care Jen. I know sometimes you get a roasting here, but it does you good to have a break and come back. We all missed you and want the best for you.

Wishing you well from London.
Lisa

Here is one where the BS

I have had the most incredible past four days of my 37 years. Thank God I am leaving in 30 minutes for my appointment with my psychiatrist. Ok, where to start. Well, for anyone reading this that is interested in how we got here - here is a link to my first post.
My first post

Hope that worked - that is the first time I have tried to link something. Anyway, we divorced in Jan. 2002 after 15 years and three great children (12, 9 and 5). I am 37, he is 41 - no affairs, just a whole lot of trust issues, communication problems, legal problems and growing apart and growing resentment over a number of years.

Since the divorce I have posted a few times about the possibility of a reconcilliation - we continued to see each other and we have been intimate a number of times over the past several months. He began 'dating' about a month after the divorce and would see this one particular woman (I call her the snail) once or twice a week. She is someone he has known casually a long time, but I couldn't really tell how serious it may or may not be getting. I have not been interested in dating - however due to the divorce diet and the other stress I am dealing with, I have lost about 25 pounds and look pretty darn good if I do say so myself. I moved into an apartment where a bunch of law/med students live and got hit on a lot! I always just said, "bless your heart, your momma did a good job". Anyway, I didn't want to go out. Didn't have the energy for it and kept hoping that somehow all this stuff would work out to enable our family to reunite. Welcoming a new addition to my nightmare didn't ever seem like the right thing to do.
Well, last Friday - here is how things heated up:

So many huge things have occurred over the past few days it is hard to separate the &#8216;events&#8217; from the &#8216;emotions&#8217;. But, I will try. Mainly because getting this on record is really helpful for my understanding and for my healing. Last Sunday (May 5) was Oldest son's confirmation and we spent most of the day together as a family. XH was very friendly and loving and kept telling how good I look (broken record and yet I continue to want to hear it??..) Then as the week progressed he became more distant and as is the pattern with which I am now familiar he was moving away from me and I knew making plans and seeing snail. He acted weird all week. Then on Friday I knew something was up and sure enough, he was going to (weekend getaway place) with her. I couldn't believe it. In the first place, going out of town is a serious shove into semi-serious and to take her there. To our place. To our family place that has been so special for so many years. I was, needless to say, having a very difficult time. After dropping Oldest son at baseball, I drove straight over to P and B&#8217;s (our best couple friends) and fell apart. Literally, almost couldn&#8217;t stand. They are so awesome. They just let me cry and ***** and they listened and they held me. I know this is progress to open up like this and allow somebody (anybody) to see how broken and beaten I am. I can&#8217;t handle it all. No [censored]? Then we talked and P, who never gives advice, said it is time for you to take care of you. It is time for you to listen to XH with your eyes and not your ears. He loves XH, of course - they have been friends since birth. And he thinks he is genuinely confused (again &#8211; no [censored]?). But, the point is I can&#8217;t solve his confusion for him. I can&#8217;t fix this for him. Hello?? Where have I heard this before? Could this be another broken record? How long does it take me to HEAR and then ABSORB the message?

Well, I began to turn a corner. Really take those steps around the actual corner. We ate dinner, I took the kids home and watched Erin Brockovitch (good, strong, independent woman movie!) and I actually slept. Not for long, but I did. I didn&#8217;t lay there and toss and agonize and wonder and conjure up images &#8211; could this be growth?!
On Saturday morning, I got up determined to take my future into my hands and out of his. I e-mailed DM (an acquaintance who is divorced that we have known for years) and gave him my number. I wanted to call, but that was way too scary and forward. I figured he would get the e-mail in the next few days and maybe or maybe not call me back. It seemed fairly low risk. He called in 15 minutes. He said he had wanted to call me for weeks and had inquired from mutual friends and was basically told to &#8220;stay the he!! away&#8221;. He is such the consummate bachelor and I think my friends were trying to protect my fragile state. Well, big girl I am. He asked me out for Saturday night and for Sunday afternoon (Crawfish Boil and Tennis Tournament). I said yes to both. The weight, you know the 55 pound one that has been sitting in the middle of my chest for 5 months, was lifted. And not because it was DM. I mean he is cute and fun and nice and I do know him (much better than a first date with a complete stranger). But, because somebody out there finds me attractive and desirable is not scared by my piles of **** &#8211; at least not too scared to have a first date. What a relief. What a statement about the future possibilities of life after XH. It was large.

Saturday afternoon at the ballpark XH showed up and looked haggard &#8211; guess an all night f*** fest with probably tons of red wine will do that to you. I was easy going, no questions about anything, friendly, not cold, but not gushy. Right mix. He was less distant than he had been all week. More textbook pursue, run, pursue, run. I left and went home to get ready and go over to D's. I looked good &#8211; would you think any different? We hung out there a while and some other people came over and I had a really nice time. After the crawfish thing we came back there and talked on the porch a while. He asked me if he could kiss me and I said yes. It was actually quite nice. Strange (guess that is why they call it that), but very nice.

On Sunday morning XH and I talked and he asked what I was doing later and I told him about the tennis tournament. He seemed fine till he asked who I was going to that with and I told him &#8220;You said you didn&#8217;t want to know&#8221;. Well, low and behold he had changed his mind and he did indeed want to know. When I said, &#8220;DM&#8221;, you could have heard a pin drop a mile away and then he said, &#8220;That&#8217;s interesting&#8221;. He began his descent into what has been my world since January 9. And especially since February 17 &#8211; which is when they had their first date of which I am aware. He was having difficult time. We met at the park to eat subway sandwiches with the boys and after a few minutes he said he had to go. He said he couldn&#8217;t see me. He couldn&#8217;t stand this and he would miss me. Yes, familiar territory for me. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Plus, we are talking apples and oranges. Two dates versus a several-month-progressively-intensifying relationship.

He called me when I got home and was actually on the phone with me when D got there. It was surreal. After the tennis tournament, which was also fun, we came back to my house for a few minutes and then he had to go pick up hsi daughter and I was headed over to see the kids for Mother&#8217;s Day festivities. XH was in the family room when I got there, but escaped upstairs where I found him supine, face down on the bed. I hate seeing him like this. Because I know what it feels like (and more) and wouldn&#8217;t wish it on the Taliban. It really sucks. So we began a 4-hour discussion. Lots was said. Lots more was felt. He wants to start the process of exploring reconciliation. He wants his family back. Well, I have wanted to hear that for months, but I cannot let myself respond to what may just be a knee-jerk emotional response. Take this battered heart and throw it out there in the middle of I-65 one more time? That seems really risky. And, no, it isn&#8217;t D. He is irrelevant to the process. The only relevance is the strength I feel from actually stepping out there successfully. If this was all it took, I should have gone out with D (or Joe Schmo) 3 months ago. Saved myself a lot of grief. He asked me to stay and I said I would reluctantly. Then he said, no that isn&#8217;t fair &#8211; you go. Then he got really down and started talking about not being able to take it and he should just end it all (not in a threatening or manipulative way &#8211; real pain, which I understand) and I told him that I was first his friend and I would stay. I did and it was really good. Really ok and comfortable &#8211; even knowing he had been in bed with snail 2 days prior. Don&#8217;t know how I got through that. XH says I am more mature than he is. He may well be right.

This a.m. he went over to her house for coffee and told her he was going to embark on putting his marriage back together and couldn&#8217;t see her anymore. She was upset and feels duped (imagine?) and she has already called him back once. He will definitely continue to hear from her. I don&#8217;t know where I am. I don&#8217;t know what to trust. Neither does he. Thank God I am seeing my counselor tomorrow. How to move from here? Careful what you wish for.

Tuesday, May 14, 2002
9:00 a.m. The Office
I just re-read yesterday and realize I wrote much more about what happened than about how I feel about it all. I feel so many things it is hard to separate it all. I feel relief that I may have a future with Xh. I feel scared that I am going to get hurt again. I feel scared that he can&#8217;t really love me the way I need him to &#8211; respect me and who I am and forgive me (REALLY forgive me) for the things I have done. I feel scared that I will resent him for not loving me like I needed him to for years. Maybe I don&#8217;t love him enough to really give myself to him. Maybe I am not capable of the kind of love he wants and needs. I think I am, but I haven&#8217;t demonstrated it with him &#8211; or ever, really.
I am scared I may resort to old patterns of not being honest with him about how I feel and holding things in to keep the peace. I am scared I can&#8217;t be me with him. He says that is what he wants. But, can I trust that? Can he trust me? Do we really want the same things? What are they?

He said last night he doesn&#8217;t think I am ready to try at reconciling. He thinks I have more &#8220;independent stuff&#8221; to get out of my system &#8211; like going out with D again. I told him I am just scared. But, if this is what I have wanted since last August &#8211; why am I scared now? Do I really want him back or did I just want him to want me? I can&#8217;t believe that could be the case. I want us to parent our children together and grow old together and love each other in a real and mature and important way. At least, that is what I think I want. But, I am not sure. He is right. I am not sure. I am not certain that I can ever love him completely because I am not certain I can ever trust fully in his love for me. I want to be loved from the inside out. I know to get that, you have to give that. And I know I have not given that. But, can we give each other that kind of love? Can we? How to know?

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W 37 years old
H 41 years old
Married 15 years
Divorced January 2002
3 children (11, 9 and 5)
Working on reconciliation - planning to re-marry each other
No affairs

"A diamond is a piece of coal that did very well under pressure"

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Posts: 337 | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

Resilient
Member
Member # 6019

posted May 14, 2002 02:11 PM
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OMG! Wiffle!
I'm sitting over my keyboard eating a chicken Caesar salad and my jaw just dropped open .... plus I dropped the salad on my keyboard! lol

I CANNOT believe what Jealousy will do. It's SOOOOO powerful ... I just don't get that, do you???

Jeeeeeez!

Jo

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Married 15+ years, together 21

H is WS and Serial Cheater

2 OW, 2 OCs

Married 9.1.85, Divorced 6.13.2001

H & Abusive Banshee engaged as of 2.14.02

With God's grace, on my way to becoming whole again

"Remain flexible like a reed, as opposed to an oak which can snap in the wind"

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Posts: 4004 | Registered: Jun 2000 | IP: Logged

Wiffle
Member
Member # 12611

posted May 14, 2002 02:40 PM
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No, Jo - I absolutely do not get it. But, it is textbook Harley and Divorce Busting stuff. Move on and they want back. I could never have predicted that his reaction to me having one date (well, two) would be so sudden and so intense.
He has said that it isn't just the emotional reaction, but it is his own amazement at his reaction that tells him how much he really loves me. He is scared to love me, but more scared to lose me forever. Guess he didn't think he had to worry about that until he saw a glimpse of the boat sailing without him in it.

I just don't know what to think. If it is just an emotional, jealous reaction - then that is just like the fire of an affair - it won't last. It can't sustain a relationship. But, if it pointed up real feelings that he has been trying to suppress, then that will be evident over time.
Now, I have patience. What I have prayed for for months. I can allow this to play out and see what happens and where we go. I can because I know (and I knew by going on the date BEFORE I had his reaction) that I am going to not only survive, but THRIVE.

What is so funny to me is that I did not go on the date as part of my "strategy" and yet it worked like I had practiced it for years. Amazing.

Any other thoughts?

Did you clean the salad out of the keyboard??

--------------------
W 37 years old
H 41 years old
Married 15 years
Divorced January 2002
3 children (11, 9 and 5)
Working on reconciliation - planning to re-marry each other
No affairs

"A diamond is a piece of coal that did very well under pressure"

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Posts: 337 | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

Resilient
Member
Member # 6019

posted May 14, 2002 02:43 PM
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Welp, what I'm gonna say is non-MB .... it's more a "Carol-ism" .....
Three words:

MAKE HIM BEG

(sorry) lol
Jo
_________________________________________________

My advice....... act happy just the way things are, start dating, let him think you have left him behind.... What you have been doing has not been working... I have not seen it work for anybody on here.. Maybe time to try another tactic..... Of course it is your life, so do what you want.....

It's good to hear from a lot of familiar folks. Thanks to nearly all of you who posted, who tend to agree with what my rational side tells me, it's time to move on. My H is stuck in a pity party extraordinaire, that only he can get himself out of. He is all about emotionally manipulating and/or abusing me, I know. I even wonder to what degree he really is as upset as he tried to sound yesterday. Maybe it's all an act to whip up my guilt again, who knows. Quite frankly, he's no longer an attractive option to me. The possibility of the future without him is more attractive.

Now, as for TMCM's lovely direct question, when am I going to move on? I guess as soon as I get the balls to go to him and tell him that I've come to this decision. I so wish he would "dump" me, but I guess it's up to me, and it's the first step towards my freedom, so it has to be me. But it still makes me sick inside to have to sit down with him and tell him it's over, and ask him whether he has a lawyer yet or if he wants to pick up the papers from my lawyer.

Lisa, when I read about your H, and think about mine, I almost wonder if men in general prefer to toss blame for their lives and their choices on the people around them, but then I guess it's just certain men, men that are predispositioned to emotionally manipulating and abusing those around them. Would you say your H has self-esteem issues too? (I think my H has low self-esteem that sort of leads to his behaviour.)

Gotta go, first day of school, gotta get there early!!

Jen

PS: Keepmvn4wrd - forgive me if I just don't get it, but I am at a bit of a loss as to why you posted on this thread...???

As I've been skimming over some other WS (or FWS) posts lately, I'm noticing that many of them at least went through a period where they really miss OP, have withdrawal over NC with OP, and just generally struggle with cutting OP out of their lives.

Howcome it was so easy for me to cut OM out of my life, and I didn't really miss him at all? Heck, to be brutally honesty here, the man that I fooled around with a year or so before my A with my H's BF was really easy to cut ties with too, I certainly didn't miss him either.

Why did I have affairs if I didn't really form a deep emotional bond with these men, to the point where I would've missed them after going NC? Why didn't I go through withdrawal like so many WS (FWS) who post here?

Was it just to stroke my ego, build up my self-esteem, meet my need for admiration?

Any ideas?

Curious Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Maybe.

In any case, you weren't emotionally attached 2 them and, as WSs go, your H's treatment of you for so long is damned unfathomable.

I'd LOVE 2 hear that my W doesn't feel an emotional attachment 2 RM. But the opposite is true.

-2long