Okay I went back to tow site and read -- many many threads...

yes it is their site ... and some of the threads are not as bad as we might think.

There are OPs who were just a blindsided by the revelation that their SO was married as the BS is to the A.

Their pain is justified and I'm glad they have a place ..... however. . .

Once it has been discovered that the SO is in fact married... unless there is proof of a separation (living in his/her own place) -- it should be broken off immediately ... hard to do but necessary for your own self, your worth and your values.

You should not get sucked into your "SO" character flaws. And if they say "well it's a loveless (etc.) marriage" it's still a justification and robs you of a clear cut, for YOU, relationship.

Remember you are only hearing ONE side of the problem .. there are two sides.

If you went into the A knowing that your SO was married or you continued after knowing SO was married ... well then that's a while different ball game.

You CANNOT say you were shocked at the lies told to you or that the SO would lie to you ... because the relationship itself is an affair and therefore a lie.

You cannot put yourself on the same level as the BS -- your hurt and your pain over the A, the break up... etc. are not on the same level

you were not blindsided .. they were.

You made a choice to continue with a MM/MW ... they didn't know they were being betrayed.

You may want to believe that the MM/MW was cheating on you with their spouse -- BUT you knew they were married and you are having an A with them -- no claim of their cheating on you with their spouse holds weight -- it's a missunderstanding of what the word "marriage" means that may be tripping you up in understanding this.

Yes some of you OPs are a bit psycho .. and you counter with "well so are BS" ... but again it has to do with being betrayed in the one realtionship that should be sacrosanct .. that between husband and wife.

While you are in the affair with the MM/MW your relationship with them cannot become sacrosanct.. it isn't close to that level -- beyond the paper house that you've made for it.

A BS becomes "psycho" over that violation -- that you particapated in IF you knew your SO was married. Again the siding (unless physically violent or stalking) goes to the BS.

There is a reason MB does not have an OP board ... I know you think MB would be more balanced if it had one. Read the entire MB site... it's not supposed to be balanced ... it's supposed to throw it's entire weight on the side of marriage and marriage restoration.

MBers the TOWers believe that you should come to their site and be willing to learn -- well TOWers we think the same thing.

You believe you get flamed just because you are the OP -- well no -- you get flamed because you don't want to change to a healthier lifestyle and mental attitude.

Those that want to change are always welcome.

But please DO NOT post on the "Just Found Out" board or PlanA/PlanB, or even Recovery and then claim that we are really horrible and mean and want you all to die.

Those are really hurt people there -- leave them alone ... post here on the General Questions board.

Also please understand that the reason a BS throws all their hate and vitriol onto you the OP is for psychological reasons -- it allows them to be able to work with their WS... eveentually they will come around to seeing you in a better light. -- but you are their OP you will always be off limits.

But you are responsible for your own decisions .. if you go into a relationship or continue a relationship with a married person -- who has not separated ... then don't calim to be shocked at the BS response.

And don't belittle us either -- at your site.

But what I said before still holds true...

The marital relationship is the primary realtionship -- OPs should back off and out entirely (the means NC) for many many years while husband and wife work it out and try to restore.

And if they do manage to repair and restore their relationship -- stay out of their lives entirely.

Oh and one more thing ... please don't assume that this site has entirely Christian posters BS/WS ... there are many faiths here.

way2

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Thank God there is no OP site here! they have one on Facereality and it accomplishes nothing good! Nothing but fights, bashing, censoring anyone who gives God credit for the salvaging of their marriages, and more concerned with their star rating than solving their life problems!
I left there, I ask to be unregistered and I was. I wouldn't go back there or here if it contained OP coming to simply wreck what they couldn't in real time!
As a BW, I don't have good feelings for OP, nor will I. I have no respect, nothing but wanting them to go crawl back in the sewer!
One way to ruin this site would be to put a OP site and let them dash back and forth seeing how much trouble they can cause. Let them sink in their own mire over on gloryb or some other site set up for them!
I wouldn't socialize with a OP in my life, so why here?
Keep it as it is here. LouLou

Okay, I'm not going to go over to the TOW board. I've seen first hand what it looks like, and in fact I've been the OW. Hadn't really thought about it that way before, but I have.

I know that one can genuinely love the person you're in the affair with, and that you can be in terrible, terrible pain if something happens to end that relationship.

I also know that those emotions can easily block out the pain that you're causing to the BS and the WS. They can also block out any thoughts of whether your actions are right or wrong.

This is HARD stuff, folks. If it weren't, we wouldn't all suffer from it. There's no way I'm going to judge an OW or OM as being less than me. They ARE me. They are struggling with their emotions and with being caught in a terribly difficult and painful situation.

Several people have said that if the affair partner were going to do the right thing, they'd immediately go NC as soon as they found out that the WS is married. You're right. They should.

Looking at it from the POV of the marriages that I've interfered with (ugh, what a way to think about it), here's what happened:

- One was an EA that didn't become a PA until the marriage was over. That one lasted through the time he was single and didn't end completely until after he'd been married again for TWO YEARS. It was completely long distance. I saw him three or four times in that period of time, and we had a huge amount of e-mail contact. I begged him to be honest with his wife about our relationship, and he refused. I finally ended the romantic part of our relationship when I couldn't take the dishonesty anymore. I went NC with him some time after that, as I began to re-evaluate my own stance on marriage and the boundaries that should and should not be crossed.

- One was an "experiment" in an already-troubled marriage. The wife knew about it, and gave her permission for the PA. She found out in the middle of it that it hurt her very badly. They ended up splitting up almost immediately thereafter for other reasons, but she still considers it (and rightly so) an affair.

- One was an explosive, fast-developing EA. The married partner did the right thing and told her spouse about it. The spouse was very upset and the married partner went NC with me. It was very painful for me, but still the right thing for the marriage, I suspect.

So what have I learned from all of that? Honestly, I don't really know yet. I'm planning to spend a lot of the next year thinking about it. But I do know that I'm SOOO not the person to toss the first stone at an OW or OM. There were great joys in the relationships I had. There were also great sorrows.

About the only thing I am sure about is that living a life of incomplete honesty is a slow way to kill yourself. I think that applies more than anything to the WP, but it also applies to the affair partner, too.

As for all the vitriol and scorn y'all are heaping on the OW? Stop it. Just stop it. Respect the life that they live, even if you do not agree with it and it causes you pain. Respect that they are -human-, and find compassion for the joys and sorrows of their lives. Hate and anger are just not going to do any of us any good.

And as for all the vitriol and scorn the OW are heaping on us? Y'all stop it, too. Same rationale.

Ok, I'm probably gonna get yelled at for putting this link in, but here ya go. If you thought gloryB was bad, check out the link here. **Warning** this site wiil probably cause BS's (as well as most rational thinking people) to hurl in disgust when reading the posts. My friend found this site while doing a paper for one of his classes at USF. Remember, I warned you...

MTD

http://www.philanderers.com/

<small>[ September 25, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

Please do not judge all tow's by that site. Many of us who have been involved with an affair are very sorry for the pain it has caused the BS. As a TOW I visited the site and found that there was very little realistic perspective on the damage an affair caused and that this was a far better site to understand the BS perspective and find the best way to make amends.

This was the worst thread that I ever started .

FIRST I want to say I am sorry for anyone who read it and went to TOW to read there .

All It did for me was damage me and brought me to a BAD stage in my RECOVERY .

And I know anyone who read there it is their choice so I am not responsiable , but it does no good to go to that side .

For anyone new who may have been lurking here and read this or for some one in not such a good palce in there own heeling it can be damaging I see that now . So for that I am sorry .

All I learned is that there are people there (NOT ALL ) that are , yes hurting but also help to hurt others and have no remorse about it cause they excuse them self cause they are not the MP.

I am not nieve , I just find it hard to belive their are so many people out their who wnat to contribute to someone elses pain , and the pain of their children .

I have no real words of wisdom for OW/OM except to say if your in it EXPOSE it .

No one has the right to hold that kind of secret hostage . If their M is meant to be it will survive it , If they are meant to be with you (OP) then your R will survive it .

Secrets and lies are whats the problem , get it all in the open , and these A and betrayals would not go on for so LONG . and for that everyone would be the better .

Please for the health of some NEW BS or someone who doesn't know about these sites let this thread die , just like all the lies and betrayal should .

Thanks .