So sorry it turned out this way Jen. He's made it perfectly clear what his thoughts are. He is abandoning you and the marriage. I don't think he thinks you'll actually go through with your plans for moving on by yourself, but since he's adamant that he can't move on, you must move forward. You've repented, left the door open, engaged him in trying to reconcile and he has refused time after time.

I just bet he changes his tune when he sees how serious you really are. Too sad. Sometimes it's a crisis that acts as a catalyst to change things. Your crisis has been his refusal to change, thus you are making a change. Who knows, maybe the reality of a divorce will be his catalyst to change.Then again maybe he's too deep into his own depression for anything to be a catalyst for change in his life. One thing is certain, he needs to change if he's ever going to have joy in his life again.

Take care dear, you deserve all the best.

He was just about to try reconcilliation in June? Ha! Pigs do fly! Like the abuser who was going to stop beating up his wife tomorrow, if she hadn't called the cops today!

Jen - don't buy into the lie. If you bought his lies you would think you were worth nothing more than dirt under his feet. He's a liar. He was unfaithful to you probably long before you were unfaithful to him. I'm not excusing what you did, but the heart is in the details of effort.

For him to feel good about himself, he has to blame you and keep you responding to his game in your role as lower than dirt. What's the poor baby going to do once you leave his life entirely and he can no longer dump HIS guilt on you? Maybe he'll have to feel it?

You are a sacred unrepeatable child of God. Please remember that above all else.

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

Thanks for your encouraging words everyone. Today I called my lawyer and made an appointment for next week.

I just called my H to ask him if he has a lawyer yet or not, and he played stupid as usual, "what, I thought you and your lawyer just did it all, sent it to me and I signed it?" Whatever. I reminded him that he needs a lawyer of his own to legally sign things off on his end. I even pointed out to him that he could call the free lawyer referral service, but told him he had to look the number up.

I asked him if his trip to Cuba was all booked. (Yes, I know I never needed to ask that, oh well.) He said he didn't know, that he doesn't know anything. He said, You think I want to go? I said, well, it's your choice to go. He said it isn't his choice, that he has no choice.

Then he started on the attack AGAIN, saying that he always had that firgured out, that sometimes you put other people first, and that I never really had that one figured out....(and I could just hear him getting ready to launch into the "you're the most selfish person I've ever met" crap again)and I cut him off and said, look, I don't want to start criticizing each other here, and so he said fine then, goodbye, and we ended the call.

He has no choice about what to do about his Christmas when he's 31 years old? Can you say, someone please pass the scissors, someone still needs to cut the apron strings. (He feels obligated to do whatever his mom asks b/c of his mom's depression since my FIL passed away. I do understand his reasoning, but if going to Cuba is going to make him miserable, he's a big enough boy to say something about it, now isn't he?)

One good thing though, we were still very calm and reasonable during this convo. At least we're not leaving things in a "I f***ing hate you you SOB!" sort of angry state. Things are just not going to work, and that's how it is, so we're both fairly calm thankfully. I know that's a lot better than some couples' behaviour as they begin Dv proceedings.

Jen

Jen:

You sound like you're coming from a position of some inner peace, finally. It's good 2 hear you like this.

Now, I see good things in your fu2re! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-kid 2long

Jen, I honestly don't think the Cuba trip is anything to take personally at all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He has no choice about what to do about his Christmas when he's 31 years old? Can you say, someone please pass the scissors, someone still needs to cut the apron strings. (He feels obligated to do whatever his mom asks b/c of his mom's depression since my FIL passed away. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Might it not be because this is his mom's first Christmas since the death of her H? If one of your parents had lost the other suddenly and become depressed as result would you do anything less? Might not he know that her pain is greater than his own and that especially at the holiday season his mom will really need all of her children to rally around her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do understand his reasoning, but if going to Cuba is going to make him miserable, he's a big enough boy to say something about it, now isn't he?) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And like he said to you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He said it isn't his choice, that he has no choice.

Then he started on the attack AGAIN, saying that he always had that firgured out, that sometimes you put other people first</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe he honestly feels he doesn't have a choice Jen because he'd do anything to see his mom finally feel better, even if that means having a miserable time in Cuba and wishing he was somewhere else.

The first Christmas after the death of a spouse is a critical time in healing, especially if the surviving spouse is suffering from depression. I really don't see that he has any choice in the matter either. It's just the right thing to do, don't you think so?

<small>[ October 01, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</small>

I do see that it's the right thing to do for him and his brothers to rally around his mom and be with her through her first Christmas without her H. I'm not so callous as to not see that. I know it will be VERY hard for her. Last Christmas without me was hard enough for her.

HOWEVER, he is a big enough boy to have said to his mom that he didn't know what to do about going to Cuba because his marriage was still up in the air (if it really was something that was important to him). In fact, he told his mom that we were done and over with in the summer so she'd get off his back about telling him to take me back. That is the point. He couldn't be bothered to make me a priority at all, not even to the point where he could even honestly mention to his mom that there was an outside chance of us reconciling and wanting to be together in December, in Cuba or here.

The reason I ever brought it up was b/c he made it sound as though we shouldn't even bother to try working on things since we'd have to spend Christmas apart anyway. Lame excuse to add to a list of them.

I guess I also forgot to say that he has said that he does not want to go to Cuba, and has made that clear to me, but feels he has no choice.

BUT, Cuba and Christmas realistically have nothing to do with anything here, and may as well not be focused on at all. He has said that he does not want things (our relationship, and how often we see each other, and how we treat each other, etc.) to change from the way that they are. He is not willing to make our marriage a priority, he is not willing to be open and honest with me, he is not willing to be honest with his family if we were to continue seeing each other, he is not willing to be seen in public with me, and the list goes on. He's just not willing to try treating me like a wife deserving of any real love, kindness and attention on his part.

Sorry to have gone off on the tangent about Cuba. It's really beside the point.

Gee whiz, here I went defending myself again.

Jen

Gee Whiz! Don't see why you'd feel like you had to defend yourself when I was just pointing out that your H may honestly feel like he really needs to support his newly widowed mom over the holidays and not to take his decision to be there for her as a direct rejection of you.

Yep, it's all beside the point anyway.