AD have you conveyed to your W that it is not your intention in stonewalling her or tuning her out but that you are simply having a hard time understanding what she means?

<small>[ October 03, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"sufdb...Hey, didn't you just post about horseman and how this kind of communication is ineffectual (cross complaining under defensiveness)?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not married to Jen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm back from school, based on my fairly clean record, I just needed the AM session. No 2x4 on this one, just contemplateing the horseman thingy, does it only then apply to married couples? Not a model for communication in general? That is why I added the additional comments, cause it is a legitmate question in understanding her circumstances, but somehow the phrasing um..... felt.....conflictual.

sufdb, all kidding aside, you do make a valid argument because it is much easier to avoid the Four Horsemen of the Apocalipse if we do practice it on others as well. So I concede to you sir that I probably did let the horseman called defensiveness into my post to Jen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>AD have you conveyed to your W that it is not your intention in stonewalling her or tuning her out but that you are simply having a hard time understanding what she means?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TMCM,

Well, it's not just that - it's that she drags everything into the "discussion" - and mixes things around so much and ties things together in so many surprising ways that there is no way for me to respond to every issue she raises - and then she talks over me so that I can't even say on sentence. It doesn't happen often but lately more and more often I just shut down - sit on the floor and wait for her to stop.

I feel like I'm waving the white flag and she's lobbing the grenades, sweeping the room with heavy machine-guns and calling in the airstrikes all at the same time. Finaly, I don't even bother to wave the flag. I don't think I could give an accurate account of one of these sessions because I just can't keep up with it. I don't know what she said and I don't even know what I said.

Once a couple months ago, I walked out and left her sitting on the kitchen floor crying - because I tried everything I could think of and everything seemed to make her feel worse.

Sorry, I don't think I'm asking for help in a useful way. In short, I'm completely overwhelmed on a regular basis and I don't seem to be able to slow things down.

I think something like this happens. W is very sensitive to being ignored. When I don't respond to her in a way which indicates that I hear her, she reacts with anger - which drives me further away - which makes her feel more ignored - which makes her more angry - and so the cycles goes - until she does something she is ashamed of - and appologizes and we are back to the beginning.

Early in our marriage I learned to load on the "uh-huh"'s, "I see"'s, etc. etc. by the dump-truck load because she is so insecure in her communication.

Part of that insecurity lies in the fact that English is not her first language, or even her second - although she has lived in the US for about 7 years, she still has some insecurity about whether or not she said the right thing.

Also, I think she mis-reads faces - or at least my face - but not only mine. She often asks "was friend angry with me?" - when I was in convo with her and her friend.

Also, she feels low self-worth - as if nobody would bother to listen to her. When she calls people on the phone (I overhear only half of convo), she usually says "sorry to bother you" and other such phrases several times in the call - as if she is very insecure about other people's willingness to talk to her.

All of these factors cause difficulties in our communication.

-AD