BB, kily,Making-it et al
I will go to counseling despite what I said earlier.
W has said that she has to get over me holding this secret for so long (as you said). As I began this is about how much should I reveal. W still says she wants to know everything. OK maybe tonight's the night

Hiker-

As XWS of several EA's/PA's I feel compelled to respond here.

I wish to share with you that my x wanted to know everything right down to the last drop (unintended pun, I know we have both moved on with our lives so no malice here!). For many reasons not unlike yours (fear of pushing her away et al) I chose to share bits and pieces never peeling the onion back all the way!

Through IC and several good reads on affairs (I shall never claim to be a resident expert, however) only 1 marriage too late for me to act upon, it is imperative once the A is revealed the WS share unconditionally with the BS. This accomplishes several things but most importantly your w's ability to be whole again (I've seen many disgruntled threads here on religion so I'll keep this as non-sectarian as possible). God created us, individually, whole...in marriage he makes us complete...WE (you and I) have made our spouse, x-spouse less than whole as a person and incomplete in marriage by our actions. Through brutal, absolute truth of the A you can once again facilitate your w's wholeness. Your completeness in your marriage can only return through continued truth and honesty and perhaps with a MC, reading books on affairs together and support of close friends and family. Through this process, you both can achieve an even greater completion than what you once had.

Not at all certain that this helps but again I felt compelled to share what I was not able to put into practice. You are on the right track, Hiker...you ARE a better man than I for coming forth and taking the necessary steps to recover your marriage! AWESOME!

God's Blessings, Hiker!
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<small>[ October 10, 2003, 12:41 PM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

Your knows you're not telling everything, and believe me, her imagination can be FAR worse than the truths you will tell her.

Telling her the WHOLE truth can be an amazing gift and an incredible relief for her. She can begin healing not worrying that she'll find something else to rise up and bite her in the behind. She can begin to deal with the facts. Be prepared for questions though. I ask my FWH about 1-2 questions a week. Just want to get it all straight in my mind. Make sure there's not something else I need to keep a lookout for...make sure I don't get blindsided again. Kind of like putting up mirrors in your car when you have an accident.

Good luck, we're here for ya.

Catch,
Thanks for the response. There things we have going for us: love and commitment to make our marriage work. W is struggeling to understand and I am struggeling to help her know what went on inside of me then and what is going on in me now. I am very fearful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> as we are going through this. I want to save our marriage. I do not want to be left with nothing. No one else(grown children) know of our struggle. In fact they think we have lived a perfect life as I am sure our famlies,friends and aquaintences do/have. Thanks for your response <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OK guys I guess you'll have to wait until I return to know how this eve turns out. I spoke to MFC and she is not sure about "telling all". She seems to feel that it would have been better if that had happened closer to D-Day. I am inclined to agree but on the other hand I want to be fair,and show compassion to my W... I guess the best thing to do now is to ask for your prayers and besure to ask for wisdom

Hiker,
Your MC is wrong!!

Like you my W had had a PA/EA that started 2 years and finally ended last year.She only admited to a EA 18 months ago. But the story just didn't make sense. I kept picking at the edges in my mind until this even affected the Plan A I was doing. I started to backslide. Had the attitude "well if she won't tell the whole truth, why should I keep trying to be this better person and H." Throughout my journey I never got an honest answer to my questions. Finally this past summer I told my W while on our summer vacation I felt that she was still withholding the complete truth. A week later she woke me up in the middle of the night and told me that I was right it had been a one time PA. But because of all the previous lies do I believe the one time story. Please learn from her mistake tell the truth now while you have the chance to show her that you can be honest and truthful without the evidence being presented. BTW for the past 18 months we thought we were in recovery but it was a false one. If she had told me all of the truth back then we would be much farther down the road of recovery. Are you in a false recovery?!

Hiker, Steve Harley, one of the most successful MCers in this country would disagree with your C. It doesn't matter how close or far away you are from D-Day, recovery is not going to take place until total honesty occurs in your marriage.

Your wife KNOWS that you haven't told her everything. And since she knows that, she knows that you still hold secrets with the OW to which she is not privy. It is the TRUTH that will heal and deceit that will continue the damage. Withholding information to which she has a RIGHT to know only compunds the damage.

Here is what Harley says about it:
“From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate. Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

The Policy of Radical Honesty is one of two rules you must follow to protect your spouse from your self-centered behavior, which includes affairs. The other rule is the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). If you were to be completely honest with you spouse, and you were to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, an affair would be impossible, unless for some reason your spouse wanted you to have one.

If you knew that your affair would be discovered -- that right after having sex with your co-worker, your spouse were to find out about it -- you would probably not go through with it. And if you were honest enough with your spouse so that YOU would be the one to tell him or her what you did, your honesty would be a huge reason to avoid any affair.

How the victimized spouse should respond to the revelation of an affair is a subject of a later column. I do not have the space to treat it here. But a spouse is twice victimized when he or she is lied to about an affair. Truth is far easier to handle than lies.”

<small>[ October 10, 2003, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

My biggest challange has been dealing with the loss of OW. I found myself trying to keep on a happy face despite the devestation that was going on inside of me. At times the pain seemed to be more than I could bear yet I had to mask my true feelings. I went to a group to help me understand what was going on with in me but lied about where I was going. I came forth aand said what I was doing and why evn though my W was unsure of where it put her it allowed me at least to be honest with my feelings. She was very upset that I lied about the meeting and said that it would take awhile for her to get over that. I know that it was wrong to do that but at the time I thought it was better "go figure". The more I read and the more I come here it helps me to rebuild what is missing inside of me and has allowed me to "seperate" from OW even though we are not seeing or coomunicating with eachother. more later

A bit of clarification. I haven't seen or comunicated with OW, in anyway, for sometime now. I do not know what will trigger the feelings of loss or emptiness in me most times it catches me by surprise and then I panic. Instead of saying what I am feeling I have tried to conceal what is going on inside of me. Of course W is more on alert than in the past and so she wonders what is going on. Which then leads to more "fast talking" on my part. Now that the "secret" is out I hope to be able to fight this fight with the help of W instead of trying to go it alone. So much of what everyone says makes very good sense to me but somehow I lose perspective when I get wrapped up in my emotion and fear.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Hi Hiker,

Your feelings are very understandable and I am glad you have decided to talk to your W about them. Can you send her to us so we can help her? I would also make things easier for you if she adopted MB principles. She could help her help you through this. You don't have to tell her your name on this forum.

I think it is too soon for a "smiley face" but I have shared my feelings for OW to my W. My W seems to have at least accepted what I've said.
After D-day W wanted me to ID OW so that she would know what her "competition" was. I didn't for along time because I wanted to protect OW and her marriage. My W was determined to "get even" (who would blame her)and when she started doing things that were humiliating for her (hanging out OW's office looking for a familiar face)I decided to let her know who OW was.
I am sharing this because it is one of the facts that I tried to keep hidden and to let other WS know that keeping secrets will only make your S crazy

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

I just edited 2 posts out because they said the same thing...sorry I'm a bit of a novice here.

<small>[ October 13, 2003, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Hiker ]</small>

Hiker,

I think you have really "gotten it". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It's going to be a hard and rocky path that your BS and you will be taking but at the end, you are both going to love what you have.
It can become "Better than Ever" and 33 years is surely worth it.

Just one more thing I wanted to mention. Please even if you cannot "understand" the pain your BW is going through, it's real and she needs all the "comfort" she can get from you.
She needs you more than you would ever imagine.

take care
bb

keeping secrets will only make your S crazy
Keep this inmind when your spouse asks the same questions over & over & over.
She so badly wants to belive you but it's pretty difficult after what has happened.

If you tell the truth (and nothing but the truth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) then you can't get caught in a lie cause the story will stay the same.

BB,

Well I don't know that I have "gotten it" but I hope that I am moving in the right direction. I know that OW didn't seem to be interested in the "whys" of the A. She said "it would take a shrink to figure that out". OTOH I wanted to know her side and my side of the story. Now I am left with finding out my side.
I want my W to know that she is the most important one in my life and it is with her that I will have "secrets". It is a difficult battle because I still have this fire within for OW. I was still disappointed that there were no messages from OW this AM when I came into work. This Jeckle and Hyde(sp?) exsistance is for the birds.

I was still disappointed that there were no messages from OW this AM when I came into work.
Are you telling your wife you are receiving these messages?
Why aren't you blocking these messages or filtering them out?

This Jeckle and Hyde(sp?) exsistance is for the birds.
When an affair is going really strong and the ws is hiding it, they are often very burnt out. When they finally get discevered, the ws almost always has such a sens eof relief at not having to hide it anymore, they get the best sleep they have since the affair began.

Since it is "for the birds", be honest with your spouse and you dnon't have to wory about "Jeckle and Hyde".

Sorry I guess I mis-comunicated. I haven't heard from OW in anyway. Either by e-mail, phone or otherwise. I was just trying to express this feeling of wanting to hear from OW and at the same time knowing that all contact should be stopped, and it has. I know that the only way I and our marriage can be "whole again" is to stop the A. The A has ended and I am determined to not revive it. At the same time I still have this attachment to OW that I am trying to break. I've admitted it to my S and have shared that I still have some of the old feelings for OW. In admitting this to my S Iam saying that I need her help in overcoming this obstacle and I am trying to honest about what is going on inside of this and in this wasy I am not continuing in the cycle of keeping secrets from my S

Hiker,
I agree with completely with Chris.

If you "understand" how important "honesty" is for your wife and you, then you have "gotten it"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As Chris wrote, with complete honesty, you can be asked the same questions over and over again without having to worry.

As crazy as it might appear for most WS, asking questions "over and over" again appears to be quit normal for the BS. I too went through this.
Sometimes I felt like I was going crazy and yet, within time I felt "calmer" and the "safe" feeling started to come back again.

I truely think that all people are looking for the same things in life.
Love, comfort, admiration, excitement and honesty.

In order to achieve this, I also believe it has to begin with honesty and not with "sneaking" and "cheating".

You and your wife have so many "good memories" to look back at and to feel prowd about.
Just try to think back when you met your BS. You were prowd and you were able to "scream it out to the world". You had NO reason to feel shame nor did you have any reasons to lie about anything.

A relationship that started off like this, can make it. You and your wife have succeeded in so many battles, you can succeed again.

I wish you the best and keep us tuned in.
Don't forget: Show and let your wife feel how important and loved she is.

take care
bb

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hiker:
[QB]Sorry I guess I mis-comunicated. I haven't heard from OW in anyway. Either by e-mail, phone or otherwise. I was just trying to express this feeling of wanting to hear from OW and at the same time knowing that all contact should be stopped, and it has. I know that the only way I and our marriage can be "whole again" is to stop the A. The A has ended and I am determined to not revive it. At the same time I still have this attachment to OW that I am trying to break. I've admitted it to my S and have shared that I still have some of the old feelings for OW. In admitting this to my S I am saying that I need her help in overcoming this obstacle and I am trying to be honest about what is going on inside of me. This way I am not continuing in the cycle of keeping secrets from my S