For some reason I wasn't able to post earlier...so I'll try now. FF, I am concerned that acknowledging her in any way is acknowledging that she has some role with your kids. She doesn't. She's an interloper. And probably a temporary one. When (and if) there's a divorce and remarriage, you will probably have to acknowledge her, as she will have at least a titular role as a stepmom.

I am NOT suggesting you pout, cry, sit in the car and be morose, but be friendly and professional with your H. You will avoid interaction with OW in the same way you would avoid a solicitor that showed up on H's doorstep. She is just not your business right now.

Unlike sufdb, I'm not sure you will learn anything important from interacting with OW. Her interaction with you will be a snapshot, not a movie, and snapshots can deceive. She won't be "natural" around you, and you won't get a view of the normal ongoing situation.

Moreover, I'm not sure YOU are up to such an interaction. If you are not sure you can do it with enormous poise and self-assurance, it's not worth attempting.

Again, sufdb, I'm not trying to dis your suggestion -- I find it intriguing. But I'm just not sure it will work in this instance.

WOW!

Thank you everyone who posted replies this afternoon. Each and every one of you has valid points. I have to say with some relief that the interaction did not take place as expected.

My WH showed up alone with kids. He appeared to have definitely been crying. I asked if he was okay? He said no; I asked if he will be okay?
He said no. Our son didn't want to get out of truck and go inside. WH took kid out and managed to get the words I love you to our son out despite all WH's crying/tears.

I asked if WH wanted to talk about it. He said maybe sometime. I then said to him, I hope that no matter what happens in the future that neither of us lets our pride get in the way of telling the other person how we feel and if we are having 2nd thoughts or whatever. WH said okay (I think, can't remember).

WH kept crying and said he feels his is short-changing the kids and that he is sorry. I said thanks for saying that. He said he knows he won't be able to see the kids a lot for two weeks again. I said if you want to talk, just let me know. He said okay and then left.

I found out later from daughter that WH dropped OW and her kid off at local gas station before he came to drop off our kids. Then WH goes back to pick up OW and kid. So this tells me that WH will probably never bring her here to my house (at least until things are final if they reach that point). However, I still have to deal with the possibility that the 1st interaction may occur at his house sometime. Due to your replies, I feel much more prepared.

Don't feel that your replies went unused because they will still come in handy for the future time that the 1st interaction does happen.

So, what do you make of WH feelings, crying?
We are not in either of Plan A or Plan B right now. We are separated, with divorce proceedings in progress. The plans fell to the wayside the night of my arrest.

Thanks again.
FF

no problem a.m. if anyone had all the answers we could all just give proper homage and go home and live happily ever after <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The benefit of multiple points of view, or ideas, is people can choose what works best for them, and ignore the rest. I see your point too, like most of this stuff it is very much situational, difficult for us to assess on the board, have to trust each will do what's best in real life.

FF re your H, tough to say, feelings about kids are independent of feelings about spouses. One may genuinely be seriously distressed about kids, but have no real desire for a continued marital realtionship. This is so hard on everyone, many a marriage has been "restored" because of kids, only to disintegrate later on badly (kids have a tendency to turn into adults). IMO one should be very certain a restoration is not because someone (especially fathers) fear being seperated from their kids. Far too often women use this threat (either voiced or implied) to "keep" their man....it is a mistake.

IMO there is nothing to do (except what you did), all the moves are his, and must be his choice....I would reassure him you will not use the kids against him in any way....but not protect him from the fact a divorce does have consequences...one being more difficulty in parenting, especially for the non-custodial parent...and keep the communication lines open. I might be inclined to also point out you know he loves his children, and should keep in mind that subjecting them to an unstable enviroment (his life with the ow) is not good for them...

FF,

U did good. The tears are for what? The children or having to drop off the OW at a gas station. Geeze, least he could have done was left her at jack-in-the-box. LOL!! Maybe she isn't worth that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Let him have his tears. He needs to cry and then some.

Just a suggestion, don't be too obliging or else those tears could turn into crocodile tears and make you feel bad.

Recommend a plan. Plan A if you can or else plan B. Plan A sounds better if he is shedding tears. Let the OW deal with his attitude. I had to go through that. OWs will eventually show their real ugly side and you can get her to do that without doing more than being a good mom and looking good. That infidelity diet does wonders and makes the WS wonder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

Sufdb & Orchid,

Thanks a lot. I'm glad to hear I did and said the right things.

I do agree with you Sufdb about the independent feelings for the kids and those feelings for me. That's why I'm trying not to get my hopes up for any drastic move on his part. Even though his heart is torn over the visitation time, he may still think OW is great and that their relationship is worth all this. HOPEFULLY THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE!!!!

Orchid, I also agree with the crocodile tears. I almost thought of offering more visitation, but then that would mean I am okay with helping WH to facilitate the A and to ease his conscience over abandoning his kids.

I am going to try quickly re-reading the story of Jon and Sue in SAA since that is the type of A my WH is in, soulmate one, even though WH has said there is no soulmate thing/feeling back in Aug. 03.

I was wondering one thing now that tears are being shed. I did get a computer about 2 weeks ago and have email, but have not told WH this. I suspect that WH has not revealed to OW his feelings about short-changing his kids and his sadness & stress. Do you think it would be the right time to let WH know what my email address is so he can feel he has the opportunity to email me from his work w/o ever having to let OW know we are communicating?

Well, thanks again. I hope I am on the right PATH, one of recovery. One question more, how do you input the instant graemlins into the posts?

Take care, last night I included everyone I have communicated with on MB in my prayers. I am praying for everyone's marriage or situation as well as my own.

FF

I just had a phone call from WH wanting to discuss the holiday visitation scheduling. Thanksgiving naturally falls on his weekend and I said I wanted the kids on Christmas.

So he is picking up kids on Wed. night before Turkey day and having them thru Sunday.

He asked what my plans are for X-mas. I said I am planning to leave the 23rd. He said, "You mean that I will miss that regular Wed. night visit too (meaning along with the holiday and his other regular scheduled weekend)? I said well, yes, but if you like you can have them for the evening visit on that Monday instead. He said well, I guess I'll have to.

He also informed me that he fired his atty. today. I asked why did you do that? He said that the atty was an hour away and that the atty. wasn't doing a good enough job for him. He got a new female atty. in his town and said he's sure my atty. will get all the info re: this change.

This surprises me but also scares me. It scares me to think that WH might have done this cuz if he misses his kids and he still seems to want physical custody, that he might want a female fighting harder for this for him. I also don't know if I trust that he actually got a new one. It may also mean he may file on his own for just legal sep., I have myself in a worried frenzy here. What does this step mean? I know you nor anyone but God really knows, but I am sick of wondering all these questions and thoughts in my mind and trying to figure out what WH is thinking, planning and seeking to achieve.

Time will only tell.

Thanks,
FF

Meeting OW .... try this .... with VERY direct eye contact, but a VERY soft and quiet voice:

Isn't it stressful meeting someone under these bizarre circumstances? This has never happened to me before. Speaking for myself, this is weird, and I'm not sure how to feel. "

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ November 17, 2003, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Originally posted by foreverfaithful:
I did get a computer about 2 weeks ago and have email, but have not told WH this. I suspect that WH has not revealed to OW his feelings about short-changing his kids and his sadness & stress. Do you think it would be the right time to let WH know what my email address is so he can feel he has the opportunity to email me from his work w/o ever having to let OW know we are communicating?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like this idea of becoming "safe" first by email. I like it lots!

When you do email him, "speak" softly and with great concern for HIS welfare, as well as the kids.

Why not simply send him an email. I wouldn't go to great lengths to hide your communications with YOUR husband from OW. She is a non-important "aside" for your marriage. Just work your plan A around her and even under her nose if you like.

Email your husband and become his confidant. You know him well enough after all these years to be really good at this.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Pep,

THanks a lot for both replies. Good answers on both too. I will remember the comment for OW.

As for emailing WH, one of my friends (not from the net) said email has been a main source for hers and her ex-husbands communication, who subsequently are on their way back to eachothers arms eventually. She suggested start out slow and keep it to the subject of visitation or ask how he is doing? Thank you for the ideas.

FF

I'm going to email today. Hopefully it will come across as I want it to, concern and offering to be his confidant.

FF

hey ff, wanna go for a dry run and post what you want to email here before you send it? Maybe a few extra pairs of eyes would be good to start in the beginning.

just a thought.

Stung by Bee,

Thanks for the advice. I wish I had stayed on the net a bit longer to receive your reply, cuz I sent it already just 30 minutes after your post was written. I do however, need and want yours and everyone else's out there OPINIONs on how to respond to my WH email reply. For your convenience I pasted both the email I wrote to WH and his reply in this post. For my protection, I changed the names just in case WH is watching. I hope I worded it well, and I think I did cuz it got a response.

Here it is:

Hi WH,

I wanted to send a message so you have my new email address.

I am thinking of making a doctor apt. for DD for her cough/cold.
She's had it for 2 weeks now, and it's not getting better. I will also
have DS checked for his dry raspy cough that he's had for 1-1 1/2
weeks. Do you agree it is time? I'm only thinking this since pneumonia
and bronchitis have been going around a lot.

After you left on Sunday night I couldn't stop thinking about what you
said. (while shedding tears, he said he feels he's short-changing the kids). It pains me to see you hurting this way. I hope you are doing
better by way of letting me know what you are feeling. I am also very
concerned about how this is affecting the kids. They want and need their dad too.

Please let me know what you think re: the doctor visit.

Thank you,
BS

THIS IS WH REPLY AN HOUR LATER

BS,

Thank you for sending your email address. It does make communication much easier.

I know DD has been coughing. It doesn't seem that bad to me, however, I would prefer it be taken care of if you believe it needs to be.
Please bring her in and I'll plan on the copay.

I really miss the kids a lot. I would like to take you up on your offer to talk a few minutes. I am thinking when I pick the kids up next Wednesday 11/26 that we could sit in the garage and discuss the kids and how we are all handling this. Could that work for you?

Please let me know.
Thank you,

Sincerely,
WH


Well, there you have it. It is exactly what we both wrote. It pains me also to see that WH says he misses the kids a lot, but no mention of me anywhere. I guess I could hope that the sentence he wrote about discussing the kids and how we are ALL handling this could possibly include me as well as WH. I hope that OW would not be waiting at the gas station which would only give WH a few minutes. I would love for us to not be rushed in our discussion. I would also like to invite WH into our (my) house so we are more comfortable and so he can see what he is missing (his new house is of far less elegance and is in need of many repairs than our homestead). The only thing about this is that the kids would be here unless I got the neighbor to watch them for a 1/2 hour or so. That is in fact a good idea, since I would not want the kids to see us together and get their hopes up again for reconciliation.

What does anyone think of this latest development? How obliging should I be? I want to have this talk with him, but would rather wait possibly until after Turkey day holiday so if he's not interested in him & I, it does not upset me before I head on a 6 hour drive to my holiday destination. But on the other hand, what I find out may delight me and I would have something to be thankful for and something to cheer me up over the holiday alone w/o him and kids with me. He does not know what I'm doing for the holiday yet.

I can see myself going either way.

Thanks,
FF

Invite him over for a visit. Let him see the new and improved you.

Change something about your looks. Hair highlighting, or an up-dated cut. Or a type of clothing you seldom wear. If you are usually seen in sweats, wear cool jeans and a man's shirt. In fact, if there are some of H's shirts around, wash, iron, and starch one of HIS shirts... and wear THAT shirt for his visit. Something different .... and interestng.

Scented candles.
A new CD.
Have something in the oven that has an overwhelming "delicious" smell.

Yes, invite him over.

You are ready.

Go slow.
Be patient.
Be persistant.
Be consistant.

Don't worry about him not showing feelings for YOU right now ... be patient.

This niceness on your part will throw a monkey wrench into the A. OW won't like this. And she may put up a big old fuss about him visiting his kids because he'll run into you (LBing).... well, tough nookies for her, sister!

Pep

Thanks Pep,

That is a good plan and approach. I think I will have the neighbor or someone watch the kids for that time if possible with the holiday and all.

I have been planning on highlighting my hair again anyway. I also thought of the outfit I will wear already. Thank you so much. Anyone else, please give your .02 also. I can use all the help and ideas I can get.

FF

At the very least this person is a factor in your kids lives
And at the very least, this person should NOT be a factor in your kids lives until a divorce is FINAL.

Why are you allowing them to interact with ow?

<small>[ November 18, 2003, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

ChrisCA123,

I told WH that the kids are to not meet OW until he knows what the h--- he wants AND that things are final.

He ignored my request. I told my atty. this situation. She said there isn't a whole lot I can do about it. So I have been dealing with it.

FF

Why didn't he mention you? Don't underestimate pride.

Expect OW to be hunkered down at the gas station like a spider. It will be good for her, anyway!

Any chance it's an Exxon station? "Sign of the double cross!"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

-ol' mischevous 2long

A.M.Martin,

I don't know if it is just wishful thinking, but I believe the pride issue is what is preventing WH from mentioning me in the I miss ... sentence.

I just started re-reading the story of Jon & Sue in SAA and I'm at the point where Sue decides she needs her kids and asks Jon to move out. It is really interesting to re-read it now after some time and after WH and OW are living together. I'm starting to see some resemblances between the book story and my own situation or should I say my WH situation. Soooo Sooo many people have told me though to NOT get my hopes up and to be VERY cautious.

Thanks
FF

2long,

Nope not an Exxon station, it's a Phillips 66!!

Amusing though.

FF

bump