I can't think of anything 2 say right now. 2 frustrated, I guess. Frustrated with the house issues, with her, with me.

Just going 2 chill a bit.

-2long

Hey ol' 2long!

Gosh I hate to see YOU down...I love your irreverence, your gentle words of wisdom to others, finding every oppor2nity to insert 2 in2 everything!

And a guy that compliments his wife like you did last week is alright with me!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2 frustrated, I guess. Frustrated with the house issues, with her, with me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Could it be that you are simply frustrated? That didn't come out quite right...what I mean is that maybe it's the accumulation of things rather than THE thing that's really bringing you down right now?

Of course the fog & N/C you mention are extremely important but perhaps now isn't the time to dwell on it? Put these issues aside for a time when you are not dealing with a large accumulation of frustration but rather a time when this is the one and only thing you are bothered by? And can focus on?

After all, if you've lived with this recovery battle for 2 years, then what's just a little bit longer?

Good luck with the insurance lawsuit...awed

awed:

Thanks!

Well, it's more that, by some's definition, we STILL haven't STARTED recovery, because she's still silly and foggy and we don't have an NC agreement about Rat Meat...

She called me a little while ago and said that she just wanted 2 tell me that she really does love me. We had talked over the weekend about how hard it is for me 2 tell her about things that concern me, that I'm afraid of. And how I just clam up when she gets angry, which is a lot of the time she's passionate about things anyway. She said that she needs me 2 tell her when I'm upset with her and why, even if I need 2 be angry with her.

So, when she called and said she loves me, I told her that I love her, 2... ...I just think that she's full of $h!+ a lot of the time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

I hope you didn't use those exact words.

AND - she said what???????

SS

And BTW,
Her calling is GOOD.

I just hope your bank isn't so empty that the FDIC comes around and shuts it down for lack of funds.

SS

Ac2ally, still, I DID use those exact words. I delivered it in a "loving" way, 2. And she giggled in response. I thought about it some afterwards, with a little twinge of regret for saying it that way, but it IS what she asked me 2 do (even 2 use those words, if that's what I feel). After all, she's never seemed reluctant 2 call B.S. when the urge hits, so why should I? ...except that I'd like US 2 get beyond THAT kind of communication. If she needs this kind, though, 2 get 2 the more rewarding, considerate-without-being-inauthentic kind, then I'd rather do that than clam up again and let her "friendship" with Rat Meat resume like it already did 3 and a half years ago.

There was more 2 the convo, including me thanking her very much for the call. I don't want 2 minimize the problems we're both facing with this house decision right now, either. I had 2 close my door because I was getting teary thinking about the difficult choice we're about 2 have 2 make. So, it IS hard, for me and for her. But for me, everything is overshadowed by the fact that she's not been willing 2 jettison RM on her own for 2 years now.

My love bank remains healthy, though. Probably because I think I understand her better than she would imagine I do - re fences and dessert consumption...

-ol' insubordinate 2long

Yup yup...I hear you...kinda sounds like me (what used to be me anyhow) and my H...I have wondered what would have happened if it had been me that had the A and him that was trying to reconcile? Not much would be my guess but you just never know -- you've certainly given me something to think about, your quiet perseverance in the face of indomitable will and passion!

I like to dig and probe and talk...one of the first things he said (got it out on the table) in recovery: he doesn't like to talk and I do (which, by the way, he had never said to me before!)...he's not being evasive, he just doesn't verbalize like I do...

But since he obviously just clammed up and said nothing when he was desperately unhappy (ie. leading up to the A), without question I needed him to talk this time although I also had to convince him of this w/o using ANY LBs...and I had already convinced myself that persuasion was a subtle form of control so I was pretty tough on myself in terms of accepting where he was, when he was and letting him figure things out on his own, in his own timeframe...

So I think you and I share perspectives but we have the opposite personalities!

Anyhow, the upshot is that I certainly understand your W when she says she needs to hear from you...she needs that connection she gets from talking, and she's asking you to connect with her...

On the other hand, I suspect you just need a little bit of quiet time to regroup because you're feeling down right now...time to tackle this problem when you're feeling stronger...

Maybe you can leave her with a suggestion to think about and agree not to discuss it for a period of time...let's say a month?

I fully understand what you are saying...you want HER to choose N/C...you recognize that it really is her choice, and furthermore it is important to you that SHE choose it (not choose it to make you happy)...

But yet you still need N/C...

So have you tried to write about this to her? As simply as you can but with emotion..."the time has come for me to state a basic need: I need to have a formal commitment to our marriage. After everything we've been through, I need you to stop having contact with RM. To demonstrate to me that our marriage is more important to you than a lingering friendship, a friendship that hurt me to the core of my body and soul, that ripped my world apart. I cannot imagine an innocent friendship with this man nor can I live with my worst imaginings popping out willy-nilly for the rest of our lives together. I recognize that the decision to go N/C is your choice to make. I've respected your choice in relative silence but now I think I was wrong to do so. I should have stated my objections clearly from the start: N/C is a condition of a successful marital recovery which I want with you more than anything in the world."

Well...you can do a lot better...that's just some stuff off the top of my head...my only point being that if our tables were turned and I got that kind of note from my H, I'd be blown away that he was emotionally verbalizing to the max! And when you surprise your S, it is far more likely that they'll stop and think about what you are saying...

You know, at the risk of having some Betty Crocker cake flung at me I have to also add: even though there's not N/C, I still think you're in recovery. It's not perfect (obviously) but there's a lot of love and forgiveness evident in your posts. And despite your W's fog where continued contact is concerned, well...she's not alone in her thinking is she?

I know: she needs to finally have that last penny drop or you really can't move forward.

So...tackle the issue (later)...and if you don't like the dripping emotional written plea, think about a new way to get your point of view across. Try some 180s of your own as reinforcement.

Whew! A bunch more drivel to lighten your day...but it&#8217;s good to see the ol' is back in the saddle...awed

P.S. Is your W stubborn? It's occurred to me before that sometimes the continued contact is part of a stubborn reaction...almost like "I'm going to be different, prove the exception to the rule" kind of thing...I know my H resisted ANY notion that what he was doing/feeling was at all typical.

awed:

"Well...you can do a lot better...that's just some stuff off the top of my head...my only point being that if our tables were turned and I got that kind of note from my H, I'd be blown away that he was emotionally verbalizing to the max! And when you surprise your S, it is far more likely that they'll stop and think about what you are saying..."

It's also far more likely she'll think about what I'm saying *IF* I'll just SAY something! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like your example letter. I think I need 2 do that one of these days. I did forward an email I got from Still Seeking 2day, after I got not only his permission 2 forward it, but HER permission 2 send it 2 her. Getting 2 this point, where I can send her stuff like that without her feeling like I'm "educating" her, has taken the better part of 2 years. Some stuff I've sent recently has been completely ignored by her - at least she hasn't mentioned receiving it 2 me - but some of the stuff has sparked discussions between us. A vast improvement over just 6 months or so ago, when anything like that would have evoked an angry OT reaction.

Is my W stubborn? IS A DUCK'S BUTT WATERPROOF???? My W is one of the most stubborn life forms on the planet's surface (including the atmosphere, hydrosphere, and upper lithosphere, I can assure you!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

2long,

I have to say I think it's GREAT that she volunteered this information. You know you can't have recovery without it.

So she's still in the fog. I think she's made great progress and your communication is so much better than it used to be.

The stress of the lawsuit & the potential of her affair being drawn into it alarms me! Unless this is something you both can benefit from working together, hand in hand which will make your relationship closer.

I also have to say there's some natural consequences happening here with her A being outed at work by her supposed friend. It might just help her towards NC with RM. Does RM know her friend outed the A? CSue

Hey 2long,

I have been by more than once, but can't figure out anything really profound to say on this thread. (I mean, I don't know how to be helpful with this one.)

Just so you know, I still like you.

SS

CSue:

yeah, RM knows what happened. Not when he
found out it had happened, though.

Remember? In mid-June, he called her in her out of state home just after I'd left for home and asked her if it was *I* that started the "rumor" that he heard from his xW that they'd had a "12-yr A". My W thought this "mole" (at least that's a cut above a "rat"!) must have been me, because I'm the only one she knows that described their "relationship" as a "12-yr A." It wasn't until a couple months ago that my W heard another rumor, from another friend, that she had had an A with RM, and that the "supposed friend" (she really was a good friend for a long time, 2) had started it at work.

I've tried 2 suggest that she contact the rumor friend and try 2 patch things up, or just let go of the need 2 get the last word in, but she's not receptive. I think letting go is a good idea for now, because she can see the sense in letting go of RM 2, as similarly healthy. She just hasn't yet, completely.

SS: This morning, my W said she saw the email I forwarded from you, but she hasn't read it yet, because since her laptop was stolen she's using her old one with the cracked screen, and it's hard 2 read around the black bands in the screen. I need 2 replace her screen for her. ...at least she acknowledged the email this time.

-ol' 2long