UN,

Normally I will not write again to someone that appears intent on following an angry path but I sense something in you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ...I still feel you are conflicted deep within your heart...so I'm going to make one more effort. Please be blunt if I'm wasting my time because it is precious to me. (Lengthy, personal replies take quite long to compose... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Stop the vicious cycle you are in right NOW: take a deep breath...and another...and another...try to think of calming thoughts...stop thinking of your wife!...if you like beaches, think of the most beautiful beach with waves rolling in...think of a river rushing over you as you float along weightless (this is my personal favorite...works even when I'm feeling nauseous!)...find an image that works for you -- you'll know it is working when you feel your pulse slowing down and the thoughts stop churning.

But........I suspect you are not doing this right now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Why? Because you seem to want a magic pill to make everything better. I know...I wanted that too...make it all stop...make it better...come ON already!!!!

Well, sorry bud...it's all up to you. Only YOU can do anything about the anger you are feeling. And you are certainly very angry! Extremely angry.

Do you want to be angry? Do you think being angry is helping you? If you weren't angry, what would happen? Would things get worse?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, how do you keep yourself from lashing out when you KNOW that there's still contact? When you KNOW that the A is still going as strong as ever? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...by emotionally detaching. By repeating your motivational thoughts. By taking control over yourself and your responses to your W's actions.

You'll remember that I gave you the exercise that would help you to do this...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And awed, that's some good info. Now if only I could get an instruction manual on how to implement those ideas. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you do the exercise? I didn't just give you info -- the info was provided to explain the benefits of emotionally detaching. The exercise is the "how to" -- there is no other easy answer. YOU need to figure out what is going on inside you. Only then can you develop a plan for how to deal with your emotions and reactions.

So what's the problem? Are you not convinced that you need to change? Again: are you content with what is going on right now? With how you are feeling?

There are lots of people around MB who think being angry is a "good" thing...as in you have the "right" to be angry, that you "deserve" better, suggesting you "show" her the consequences of her behaviour.

So for the last time... is anger what you want to feel?

If so, here's exactly what you can do: OWN those feelings...they are now YOURS. SHE is not making you angry, you've decided to be angry. You CHOOSE to be angry.

Once you've accepted responsibility for your behaviour: do the right thing. Two wrongs don't make a right. Sneaking around behind her back does not make you right, nor does it balance the scale of all the crap she dished out to you.

Be the person you want to be in future: Make your plan (heading for divorce now) and calmly take action. You will feel better I guarantee it.

But...if you suspect that you don't want to divorce yet...(have you done the anger release technique above yet? You can't make this decision while angry you know)...then PLEASE do yourself a favour. Try to emotionally detach from your wife and her behaviour. Try to get control over your emotions...they are NOT leading you towards your goal!!!

Truly, if you have had enough of her crap, if you have Plan A'd to the best of your ability and your love is fading (and that's actually what I read you saying buddy)...then you need to plan for Plan B. But don't bother LBing like crazy then heading into Plan B. That ain't going to work to fix your marriage.

If you don't like what I have to say, then I will not post to you any longer. But right now, what I hear you saying and doing is leading to the end of your marriage. Of course you always have the "right" to do so...it is your marriage. Only you know when you've had enough.

But if you do not want to end your marriage, then STOP what you are doing. Start working on yourself and taking control of yourself. Stop blaming your wife for your behaviour...she's not responsible for your behaviour, any more than you are responsible for her behaviour.

I hate to see someone work against themselves like you are doing right now...because of the negative emotion of anger.

Basically, even if you want to end the marriage, do so with dignity, calm and rational thought. You will feel better for doing so. Otherwise you are going to wonder, regret, hate, self-doubt, etc...for the rest of your life (or at least for a good long time!).

Take care of yourself UN...awed

P.S. You should never do something for someone because of what they are going to do back for you in return...unless you have an agreement that clearly spells out these expectations. This is a truism of life.

But this goes double during an A or when a WS is in withdrawal. Do NOT buy or give your wife anything and then expect she will do anything back for you. Otherwise you are simply building up resentment inside you.

If you want to give her chocolates, then go ahead. Don't expect a thank you. If you need a thank you, then don't give her the chocolates and save yourself the frustration.

<small>[ December 20, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

Listen to what Awed said. It's good stuff.

And lest you think you're alone, my WP said and did all that you're talking about. And me getting angry about it did NO GOOD AT ALL. It hurt me and my serenity and made me do things that were not productive in terms of my relationship with her.

And I have to say this, too. You're doing very well in terms of the Plan A stuff -- the gifts, the time spent, the good conversations. However, you're also getting to the point where your own pain threatens to overwhelm you. And that means you need to be thinking more and more about Plan B, because your hurt and anger will, if you let them loose, cause all kinds of damage. It is NOT a bad thing to speak softly and say "Hon, I feel really hurt right now, because I see that you took the credit cards and all your jewelry without telling me. I'm upset because it seems like you either want to use the credit cards to hurt me, or keep them away from my use. How would you feel about returning them?" I'm making the specifics up a bit, but the FORMULA is right, and you don't mention that you're using it when you talk to your wife.

This is something you might want to practice. "I feel X about Y. How would you feel about Z?" And then LISTEN to her answer, whatever it is. Allow the conversation to last no more than five minutes (And 30 seconds is fine) and then change the subject to something pleasant.

Perhaps I'm repeating something you already know, but it's something that's worth repeating over and over.

Thanks to both of you. It really means a lot to me.

posting because my internet has been messed up all day...will post more if it works past this point...

awed18: Thank you again, and please, I would really miss you if I drove you away from my posts. You've done a great job so far of talking me down from those nasty spots.

I'm going to work on those excercises for real this time, instead of just reading and kind of thinking about it for a few minutes.

I don't want to be angry, I've had enough of that for the past 2 years or so of our marriage. I don't want my marriage to end either. I love the woman I married. I love the woman who promised to love, honor, and cherish me, as long as we both shall live. I love the woman with whom I've created memories to look back on with a smile, and whom I've dreamed of a wonderful future with.

But I'm having trouble dealing with the woman I see my WW as now. Sometimes I have hopes, and just drea of the day when she finally begins to emerge from the fog, and we can start working together to be better individuals and better partners. Other times, like last night...*sigh*

Just J: Thank you. I haven't even once mentioned the relationship since she moved out. I have brought up finances a few times, and have phrased my comments as "I feel that this would be best. What do you think?" or "This is what I would like. How do you feel about that?"

I guess I just needed to vent. Long week, long day, new medications, dreary weather, my only really good friend besides WW is leaving town for the next two weeks.....so I guess I'd just rather come here and blow my top for a few paragraphs than hold it in and risk exploding when dealing with WW, or even worse, the kids.

Thinking about it, I've only let myself get REALLY angry about this maybe twice. Mostly, I've just been hurt, scared, and feeling sorry for myself. So maybe I need to sit down and type out all of those nasty thoughts and feelings (just to myself), and get them out of my head! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Really though, I need to learn how to let go, to detach, to stop being so connected to her or anyone else. I just find myself so bored and so alone on the weekends. Maybe this would be a good time to actually take some co-workers up on their offers to go do something, anything, and work on a broader range of friends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I've got to admit...

Those things about "Detachment" are exactly the opposite of how I've lived my life for as long as I can remember.

This'll be a long road, but thanks again folks for helping me along. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

A couple of things...

1) From TMCM in another post...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These WS do feel love for their BS and were not contemplating ending their marriages prior to the start of their affairs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yikes! Umm, according to the discussions we had a month or two ago, umm, my WW was contemplating ending our marriage, and had been for months!

It seems that her steps for ending a M are..
</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Find another R</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Leave her H to have more freedom to pursue that R</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that R is bad, come back to her H and hope he never found out, or that he'll forgive her</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If that R is good, end her M once and for all and go on with her life.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Just a thought and observation that her current A didn't just happen, but that it's something she's been looking for to end our M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

2) I've tried and tried and tried to detach. I've found myself able to do so with a few other issues, mostly regarding the kids. But I went over it several times regarding my WW, and I just can't seem to pull it off. I really am trying, and I believe that I might be successful if the A were to end. But while it's still happening? And seems to be stronger than ever now that she has more freedom from our M?

It's like forgiving someone for punching you in the face. They do it once, you forgive, they never do it again, and it's behind you. But this feels like she just keeps punching me, over and over and over again. How can I forgive someone for continuing to hurt me?

I know. Don't let it hurt me. That's where I'm still hung up. I really and truly am trying to figure that one out.

Any suggestions on how to turn thoughts and memories and perceptions of current events around so that I don't take them so personally and feel so much hurt from them would be appreciated.

edited for typos <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

from another thread

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong> It is additionally obvious to me that you are getting something out of all this crisis with your husband being less than honorable.

If this were not so, you would have been posting differently than you are now because your writing is exactly the same frenetic, angry, "MAKE HIM CHANGE" "HOW DO I MAKE HIM SEE" HOW DO I MAKE HIM CARE" kind of posts.

Do you feel superior to him?

Are you prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice? Do you feel that by risking your health because of this crisis that your martyrdom will make him sorry he did what he did?

Do you really want advice, or do you want sympathy and emotional "there-there" responses? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since I see a lot of myself reflected in those questions, I'd like to answer them here if I could.

Do you feel superior to her?
In many ways, I'd honestly have to say that I do, especially considering current events.

Are you prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice?
If you mean Divorce, no. That scares the daylights out of me.

Do you feel that by risking your health because of this crisis that your martyrdom will make her sorry she did what she did?
Again, to honestly asses my feelings, I'd have to say yes. I never thought of it in this way until I read this, but yes.

Do you really want advice, or do you want sympathy and emotional "there-there" responses?
I REALLY want advice, and maybe a bit of coaching. In the past, it seems all I've really wanted was the other responses, attention for the sake of attention, being the poor victim in life that everyone wants to take care of, that kind of garbage. But that's another major flaw in my character that I REALLY want to change. So any and all advice and coaching would be VERY MUCH appreciated.

And yes, I am going to IC, and trying to work through some of this with him. But even once a week visits for 50 minutes leaves me with a LOT of time to say and do and think and feel the wrong things.

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

UN - you asked me to comment on your situation compared to the other thread you posted that request on.

Some major differences to make note of:

1. Your DDay is recent - in the last two months.

2. Your focus for the most part has been accepting that you can't change her, so how do you change yourself to deal with the situation.

3. I see you actually reading and responding to the feedback people have cared enough to give you; and trying to implement Plan A/Plan B - even though it's hard and even though you haven't made it completely stick yet - you're really truly trying.

4. You have been open and honest in recognizing your part in the faltering of your relationship - awareness that is essential in boosting your chances for recovery as a human being, and if given the chance, in your marriage.

5. While your spouse may have similarities in behavior and attitude and expression of love and commitment toward you as Lefty's spouse does, you have an entirely different focus on a solution. You may agonize over cruel spousal behavior, but you don't express any tendency to expect change coming from her any time soon. You recognize that you can only work on yourself.

6. The bouts with anger are natural - and they stem from a sensation of being at someone else's mercy. Please notice that while you have these moments of powerlessness, you also bounce back to focus on your own behavior quickly.

So bottom line - Definition of insanity doesn't apply to you in this insane situation - because you're not posting from the same POV as you were in November. You're evolving - feeling your way and getting guidance - not all of which is applicable, but most of which is well intended anyway.

So please, reach around and pat yourself on the back. You are making progress!!!

P.S. U.N. - I strongly suggest that while you are in this PLAN B-Against-your-will that you study any kind of material that will help you gain confidence in yourself.

Here are some books that I have found to be extremely helpful in "taking back my power".
Toughness Training for Life
Breathe In Breathe Out; Inhale Energy Exhale Stress
Mentally Tough The Mental Game

Another excellent book which helps change the polarity that we live in our lives from fear toward dreams and goals is EXCUSE ME! Your Life Is Waiting

Very powerful book on getting what you want instead of what you fear.

P.S.

U.N. By "ultimate sacrifice" - I'm speaking in terms of life and death. The individual I gave this feedback to has been bound and determined to force her husband to care that his affair hurts her. To the point that her health is at stake and she still does nothing to create some distance between herself and her dishonest, openly cheating husband.

In other words, she's willing to put HER life completely into his uncaring, uncompassionate hands.

I don't see you doing that.

Another thought that I failed in pointing out in my first response to you.

Once you have mastered the "mental toughness" challenge, then you are ready for a 180-type program.

This is where U.N. becomes as attractive as possible because he is no longer begging for reconcilliation - he gives every appearance of being prepared to move on. He's confident, self-assured, and now potentially unattainable. A very attractive proposition for an unrepentent cake-eater - because even though she's cut off contact with you, the minute she feels you aren't there as her fall-back 2nd choice if her current fling doesn't work out, she may be rethinking her options.

do a search under the "180" reference on General Questions and JFO boards

WOW! Thank you so much for commenting. You folks here really are amazing, and I really do apprecaite your willingness to be there for so many of us.

As for the ultimate sacrifice, well, I'd have to say that right now, I would not be willing to die for this woman or this relationship. As much as it makes me miserable to even think about the end of my marriage, I would not make that sacrifice, because the woman she is right now, and the relationship we have right now is just not worth it.

If you'd have asked me even as recently as 3 months ago, then yes, I'd have gladly done anything for this woman and our family. I'd have suffered through any pains and problems and made whatever sacrifices I had to.

In fact, with the numerous health problems WW has had during our 7 years together (6 surgeries that I can count), and the changes I've made to my lifestyle, and the things that I feel like I've "put up with" over the years, I'd say I already have suffered through quite a bit, and made quite a few sacrifices.

I'll definitey take a look at those books you've suggested to see which one(s) look like a good fit for me.

Again, you folks really have been wonderful! I hope you know just how much your thoughts and ideas and support have meant to me for these past several weeks. It really does mean a lot to me, really does help, and really does give me something to look forward to each day.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

oh geeze...now I'm making myself all teary-eyd <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

UN:

"2) I've tried and tried and tried to detach. I've found myself able to do so with a few other issues, mostly regarding the kids. But I went over it several times regarding my WW, and I just can't seem to pull it off. I really am trying, and I believe that I might be successful if the A were to end. But while it's still happening? And seems to be stronger than ever now that she has more freedom from our M?"

All the more reason 2 detach. Because, you never could control what your W chooses 2 do, anymore than any of the rest of us could affect our S' behavior. ONly our own. Really, insisting on NC while the A is ongoing will get you nothing but resentment of YOU. ...just like it did ME 2 be so adamant that RM had 2 go NOW... ...for more than a year and a half - even when I wasn't saying it 2 my W, I was thinking it loud enough she could feel it! I have no control over my W. I have even less over RM.

Freedom from your M? Well, look at it that way if you insist, but it won't help you stop dwelling. Think of it as freedom for her 2 take time 2 think. And maybe right now she's choosing NOT 2 think, but that's her choice. It's her time.

"It's like forgiving someone for punching you in the face. They do it once, you forgive, they never do it again, and it's behind you. But this feels like she just keeps punching me, over and over and over again. How can I forgive someone for continuing to hurt me?
I know. Don't let it hurt me. That's where I'm still hung up. I really and truly am trying to figure that one out."

Yep. You have choices, just as difficult 2 make and hard 2 face the consequences of as those your W is facing. Usually, we make choices that alleviate our current pain, or that appear 2. In reality, we're usually avoiding pain that we NEED 2 experience in order 2 grow as individuals. Like, try 2 2rn adversity in2 oppor2nity. Oppor2nity 2 grow. Personally. Never mind what your W is doing, especially what YOU perceive she is doing 2 hurt YOU.

When we're angry, it's because we've chosen 2 react 2 some perceived wrong done 2 us, rather than respond with thoughtful kindness and consideration. Greg Baer, in his book "The Truth About Relationships" (or maybe it was his CDs, I can't remember), gives an example si2ation that plainly illustrates that people don't make us angry, we choose 2 be angry. The example has him meeting different people on a walk, literally bumping into them on his way. The reactions range from simple "excuse me"s, 2 "you're carelessness is the reason for all my problems", and yet he did nothing more or less 2 any of them than he "did" 2 the others.

Anger can consume you, as can your imagination. I know this from personal experience. I still struggle with my demons, but at least I'm realizing they're mine, not anybody else's. I can defeat them, or let them (imaginary though they are) defeat me. You have the same choices.

"Any suggestions on how to turn thoughts and memories and perceptions of current events around so that I don't take them so personally and feel so much hurt from them would be appreciated."

Yeah. Set them aside. Don't focus on them, on the things you perceive as wrongs done 2 you. Focus your attentions on those things you CAN change, and perhaps should. What has your W told you about YOU that annoys HER? Change those, but don't hold them up triumphantly 2 her and proclaim "See? I fixed that! I'm a better man! Will you go NC now and come home?" Just make the changes. Keep making them. Make them for YOU, first and foremost, because you are who you're clearly going 2 have 2 live with for the rest of your life. If your W, some day, decides she likes being around the "new you", then let her decide what she wants 2 do about it. Be patient... ...one of the hardest things 2 do during a time like this. But one of the most imperative.

-ol' 2long

HOLY MOLY!!!

Ok, so let me set up the scenario here. In trying to get gifts to Grandparens, I had 3 of the 4 addresses needed. I have been waiting for about 10 days for my WW to get me the 4th address for her Grandmother. Well, I finally gave up on that, got off my lazy butt, and called her Mom to get it, and to make sure of plans for Christmas Day.

In the process,we talked for a while (total phone time ended up being about an hour), and of course, the situation of what's happening with me and WW came up. We talked mostly about things being difficult, both of us making mistakes, and I was trying to be very vague about things, not being sure if I was ready to "expose" her affair to her Mom.

In the process, she said something about friends in general, and I said that she had plenty of those on the internet. I then started to say how that was one of the problems, being how much time she had been spending on the computer, and what did she say?

"What's his name, Chris? Is that it?"

HOLY MOLY!!! She already knew the name of the OM!!!

Well, she didn't know the extent of their relationship, but once she mentioned his name, I couldn't hold back anymore, and I told her the basics about the types of conversations they had been having for months, and that he had flown out to meet her when she took her little trip last month.

Being the kind of person she is, my MIL let things be. She expressed how wrong she felt it was, and how she felt that nothing excussed cheating on your spouse. But then she was willing to talkto me for the second half of that hour. We talked about WW, about me, about life, about relationships, and she never gave me the impression that I was suddenly "persona non grata".

Now, the scariest part was how many times MIL expressed her impression that WW didn't want to work on our marriage, both before I spilled the beans, and after.

Anyway, I was pretty much FLOORED when she spoke his name. So here my WW has talked to her mother about this guy already. So what the **** does that mean?

Wild man, just wild. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

And now I'm finally understanding the idea behind telling everyone.

I think I'll be letting her S and BIL know what's going on when they get back from their trip. And sooner or later, I/we will have to let the kids know more about why things are the way they are, at least the oldest child.

And if WW gets upset about this? If she feels betrayed? If she never forgives me? SO WHAT!

She made a choice, and she going to have todeal with the consequences. Besides, what have I got to lose? An unfaithful spouse who doesn't want to put any effort into our marriage anyway?

Well, if that's all she's ever willing to be to me from now until the end of time, then I'm really not losing anything of value anyway. But if she wants to work on things, she'll have to do so in the ligh of day, and not by sweeping all of her dirty little secrets under the rug, hoping to protect her precious image.

And the best part is that, for some reason, I feel free. I feel like some weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I feel like I can start to look at things as they really are right now, not as how they were when we were married, and not as how I hope they might be someday.

Somehow, I feel magically transformed into an indivdual again.

Interesting.....

So I went over the good old "180 Degree List" this morning. Up until now, I've avoided it like the plague, because almost everything suggested on there was contrary to how I felt, and thus doing those things would make me feel like a liar, if that makes sense.

But now I look at that list, and it all seems so easy! Not saying "I Love You", not waiting around on her, and most of all "12. Act as if you are moving on with your life."

Act? No need! I AM moving on with my life! Not that I'm giving up on our marriage, but the roadblock for me about this plan has always been the "acting". Now I don't have to act, so everything on that list will come so much easier!

Also, in the long run, I think this is the next best step for me to take, between Plan A and Plan B. As I've said, I'm confident that moving to Plan B would be just the same to her as already being divorced, and the only result of that would be Divorce. Since I don't want to take a path that could be so destructive to the marriage (I am here to find help in saving this thing after all), then I should avoid Plan B until I am truly ready accept Divorce.

So it's now time to implement the 180 Degree List. And not even to try and show her anything or to prove anything to her, but simply to regain some self-respect and strength and a better perspective on my current life.

Now a question...

One of the things on that list is "Do not buy gifts." Well, I already have a card and gift for her for Christmas. So should I just throw away the card and return the gift? Or does that "rule" apply more to things like leaving a box of chocolates in her car at work, or sending her flowers?

Okay, I'm a little feaked out again, so please bear with me, as I'm really just trying to understand.

When WW moved out, in our very last conversation, she said that she still wanted to be married to me, that she thought our marriage deserved a chance, and that she was looking at our separation as temporary.

Well, I keep getting these little hints and indications that she's completely moved on, but I don't know how to address it. We haven't spoken even one sentence about our marriage or relationship or feelings about each other since she moved out almost 4 weeks ago.

As part of Plan A, or at least as a final attempt at Plan A, aren't I expected to mention how I'm feeling, how things are still hurting me, and how she's feeling?

I mean, I'm certainly not supposed to drop everything personal from what little interaction we have, am I?

If not, how do I approach this?

In order to properly implement the 180 Degree List after Christmas, for my own mental and emotional health, I need to get all of Plan A "out of my system". Bbecause if I'm going to go that route, where I never talk about the future, I never talk about our marriage, I never say "I Love You", or any of that, shouldn't I get a one-month update first, just to see what her thoughts and feelings are now? Instead of doing like I usually have, and just trying to "read her mind", and act like I already know that stuff.

Your continued help is greatly appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Yes, you're allowed to talk about how you feel. Keep it short, though:

"Hon, I love you and I'm feeling pretty lonely these days because you moved out. How are you feeling about ending your affair with OM and comin home?"

Listen to the answer, and then have another subject ready:

"I'm gonna make some popcorn/tea/coffee/pancakes/filet mignon. Do you want some?"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't know how I missed your reply here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> Maybe I just have too many threads going now, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Thanks. I'll contiue my thoughts one the other one located

here