2worlds:<P>As Cleo mentioned, and as I stated: it will take both of you to get your marriage back on track.<P>I have seen both sides of this: I have been the betrayed spouse (exW) and more recently the WS.<P>We WS's excel at self-deception ... given time, we can justify anything in our behavior (after all, no one, to themselves, is the "bad guy"). Hence, a lot of references here (tongue not so quite in cheek) to alien abductions and Moose Brain Worms.<P>As you said, and others (including myself) have pointed out: right now the OM is fulfilling your emotional needs. Because of this, you have this giddy, head-over-heels in love feeling. Only natural: when our emotional needs are being met, and we are happy and satisfied, your brain produces chemicals (dopamine, among others). In essence, then, you have become chemically dependent on the OM. Just like with any other substance addiction.<P>The trick is to replace that "fix" with one your husband provides. This can only happen if you both are working diligently to fulfill each other's emotional needs. Reading the material on this site and Dr. Harley's <I>Surviving an Affair</I> and <I>His Needs, Her Needs</I> are a must to get on the road to recovery.<P>As they say in cheesy TV commercials ... but wait, there's more! Just meeting emotional needs alone will not suffice. There is a whole new framework for your marriage, one that encompasses the rules of honesty, care, protection and time.<P>Finally, you and your husband need good, effective marriage coaching (note that I did not say counseling). Click the "Counsel" link at the top of the page ... Steve and Jennifer Harley have effectively helped countless couples recover their marriage. Saving a marriage is definitely worth the cost of one session ... heck most of us spend more than that on a night on the town.<P>Saving the marriage will take both of you. It won't always be easy. I can vouch for that. But I can state with certainty that the relationship zorweb and I now share is far, far better than anything we would have accomplished on our own. And while the road to recovery has an occasional emotional pothole, on the whole, our marriage is now far better off (not that I would recommend this course to get there, far better to read and implement without the messy emotional turmoil caused by an affair).<P>Your first step is to cease all contact with the OM (it tells you how in <I>SAA</I>). Then you and your husband take one step at a time along the road to recovery. Eventually, you will look up and be amazed at how far you have come.<P>So like the line in the movie Armegeddon: Get the book, get the book, get the g-damn book ...<P>Still reading?! Get the book ... run, don't walk (unless carrying sharp pointy objects) ... or you can order it online if you don't have a Barnes and Noble or similar book superstore close by.<P>Godspeed,<BR>STL<p>[This message has been edited by SeenTheLight (edited September 11, 2001).]

Bigsouthwestsucker,<BR>Thank you for all of your input, much was helpful to me. I do realize that you have been through a very bad situaion, like I am causing in my life. I am sorry for all the hurt you have felt and may still be feeling. I also recognize the fact that you do not have all of my details, and your feelings are based on your experience. I am going to make an attempt to address some of your specific thoughts. Please bear with me. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also a word of warning, you name “2world” and your actions, says a lot. You want another life, with OM if need be. But you have a “nice” husband who hasn’t given you any REAL reasons to leave him other that not blowing your skirt op anymore, or enough, no romance, and defiantly OLD NEWS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>....very true. Most of it. It isn't just the sex, it's the fact that he has proven to me time and time again that his family (Mom and Dad and now estranged sister)mean MORE to him than I ever will...you have to understand my situation to see that better. I live in a literal triangle. My house is one corner, MIL's is another, and the third is my SIL's. When it comes down to me, YES he loves me very much, but he is more dedicated to his family then to me. If you haven't already, read my first post of this thread to understand that part. Through it all, I want to move...I can't stand living here..he has only recently said ok to that, but so far it is talk, and when we talk, he is very sad about it, and that breaks my heart. I know he has lost an anormous amount. But when I needed him, he didn't stand up for me. For THREE years! I was the one who had to take action. I do feel an anormous amount of guilt even though I KNOW I did nothing to deserve what happened. But if it wasn't for her feelings for me, they would still be a little family, and they wouldn't have this pain. (just a note..we are all convinced that my sil is a sick woman, and that she brought this on herself, however, it isn't that simple..and she is spreading bad rumors about me in our grade school...I am telling you, it is NOT a good thing for anyone to be falsely accused as a SEXUAL ABUSER of CHILDREN! Mom's?? Can you imagine that???)<P>As far as him being a nice guy and he really hasn't given me reason to leave. Yes he is a nice guy, very nice. But because I love him, I have not left, even though, he HAS given me reason to! I don't think of him as OLD NEWS, and he does turn me on when he DOES make love to me. I am NOT looking for perfection...I think I am looking for a new life, but not willing to give up what I have right now. I am fortunate to have what we have...I am blessed..but I am unhappy. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Ever think your husband wears his dirt and sweat as badges of honor testifying to how hard he works for YOU?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...Nice thought, it actually made me think, and feel bad,,for just a moment though! NO, I think he is LAZY when it comes to having good hygeine! YES! I will make love to him in ANY condition because I do love him! HOWEVER, do I feel romantic on a nightly basis when he ALWAYS comes home from work, dirty, sweaty, with visible dirt on his hands, and climbs into our bed?? COME ON..that is just inconsiderate! Would any woman, want her private parts touched by hands that have dirt on them? Ewwww!!! I WILL push his hands away if he tries to touch me privately if he hasn't showered, and that makes me feel SO special to him! Like I am not even worth a shower?? AND he actually gets mad and insulted that I would ASK him to shower!!!!<P> As far as him wearing his dirt as as badges of honor?? For working FOR ME??? Nuh uh! He and I have had this discussion a few times. I do not fall for the idea that he works FOR ME. It is a family effort. ALSO, IF he wasn't married to me, even if he was a single man, he (with his personality) would wake up every day, go to work the same way he does now, eat the same type of lunch, and come home like he does now. HOW would THAT be different? His daily grind is the same as it was prior to us getting married. Even his habits from when he lived at home (13 years ago) were the same until very recently. Just a few months ago, he FINALLY STOPPED going to his MOMMY's for breakfast EVERYDAY before work, where SHE packed his lunch and he brought her his laundry (EVEN THOUGH I WOULD BE DOING IT) WHY??????????? To make HER happy, even though he KNEW it was making ME nuts!!!!!!! I was home in the morning, and he would leave me to go have breakfast with her. EVEN if we were in the middle of talking, God, forbid he was late to be with her! (ok, so I ranted there..lol) DO I appreciate his working? SURE I DO, and I tell him that, AND show him that in other ways!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, I have a favorite saying for one of the Mad Max movie, “NO matter where you go, there YOU are!” Meaning if YOU do not fix YOU, this is almost sure to happen again. Your husband is the way he is, in PART, because of you. Because of what you allow him to be, and because you let him THINK what he is doing is making you happy. NOW do not bite my head off, I did NOT say this distance and frustration is all YOUR FAULT, ok? But you must acknowledge that SOME of how HE is not satisfying you is a communication.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...I completely agree...I do not take this as all his fault. But I am so tired of trying..but I am willing to try AGAIN.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If I understand you, and my wife, when you first got married years ago, you did not really like sex correct?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Incorrect...I liked it..probably more than I was willing to admit, because I was not sure what was the normal level of liking sex since I didn't have clearly defined line of what was acceptable. In fact, I think I was extremely sexual, but hiding it. And since he was NOT extremely sexual, I let him lead that dance, since I figured he had a healthier approach to it..what did I know? I was 17 when we met??<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He has also stopped doing things too, LOTS OF THINGS, right, it takes to to destroy a marriage and it takes two to MAKE it work, and yes the word WORK is in “making it work”.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> NOPE..he didn't stop doing things, he either never did them, or only recently has finally started doing them. I was just very accepting of what he didn't do, but maybe I need more now? Honestly, we as a coule haven't changed much over the years..but I need to get out more. I need and have begged him to get a sitter and the two of us go out..he is always too tired. BUT I do agree that it takes two to work...I am trying..<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>YOU REALLY NEED TO GIVE HIM A CHANCE! Plus, can you really start a new relationship until you REALLY GO ALL OUT and DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO MAKE THIS MARRIAGE WORK? PLEASE, PLEASE STOP THE AFFAIR NOW.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree with that 100%. I have repeatedly said that a marriage has to die a natural death, after you have tried to save it, taking whatever avenue you need to find the answer. But it should not be murdered. I DO BELIEVE THAT. I WILL not leave for another man. If I leave, if I call it quits it will be because I need different FOR ME. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My advice is, yup, tell him, he deserves that, he is worth it. That may end your marriage, it may save it. Who needs to? You both do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> NO WAY. I see no positive outcome for that. YES it may end my marriage, but my marriage my end anyways. And WHY hurt him that bad? He has no way to find out unless I directly got caught. And that will not happen. NO ONE in my real life knows of the OM. I just do not see the point of hurting him like that. Like I said before, and I meant it, I will bury myself in my own ugly guilt then to hurt him so severely. In any case, I am not in contact with the OM in that way. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He doesn’t SEE, really SEE you right? Your and my story and so many other are so textbook. You have changed! He might have changed or not, but I BET, he really doesn’t KNOW you have changed. Also he has NO IDEA how to give you what you need. Believe me he THINKS he is!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>..I HAVE told him what I need, SHOWED him what I need. It lasts for a week or two...BUT I am willing and wanting to try AGAIN.<P>Thanks for your input..as you see, it wasn't taken lightly. God Bless<BR>2worlds <P><p>[This message has been edited by 2worlds (edited September 12, 2001).]

Thank you Cleo and SeenTheLight...I will get the book, get the g'd' book! (lol)<BR>Also, I am looking for the emotional needs questionere...thank you for all you said..I DID listen. And I DO appreciate it!<P>2worlds

The Emotional Needs Questionnaire is here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html</A> <P>All the best, <BR>Mrs. Job

2 Worlds:<P>Just lurking here, not much to say right now. You will get "great" advice here. I feel for your situation with your in-laws. They can be so damaging.<P>From Orchids post I see you live nearby. Welcome to MB.

Hi again 2 Worlds,<P>As you can see I can only respond to what I read and from things that seem to be similar to my situation.<P>You said: …..“Most of it. It isn't just the sex, it's the fact that he has proven to me time and time again that his family (Mom and Dad and now estranged sister)mean MORE to him than I ever will...you have to understand my situation to see that better. I live in a literal triangle.”………<P>….”I want to move...I can't stand living here..he has only recently said ok to that, but so far it is talk, and when we talk, he is very sad about it, and that breaks my heart.”<P>Would it help if you looked your husbands relation ship with the in-laws like they were the “Other Woman” He goes there for some reason(s). and it seems he would be sad and perhaps face similar withdraws if the in-law relationship was reduced or eliminated, do you agree? If so, aside form his feelings of obligation, could he be getting some of his emotional needs filled there that he THINKS you are not filling? If so perhaps you could use the parts of this site for wives are using with WHs. Maybe even the sections addressing the husbands that can’t or wont stop seeing the OW. I thinks there is also a section called something like, “What to do with the OW waiting in the wings? Remember hoe you described your situation, “I live in a literal triangle.” Aren’t most affair referred to as a triangle also? Just a thought.<P>I have a story you might have already herd that I have said for years, even when I did not know I was living it:<P>An elderly couple returned home after the 50 th anniversary party the kids and grand kids through them. As always he made the sandwiches and she made the tea, like the have done for 50 years at the end of the day. After he set her sandwich down in front of her, she burst into tears. Naturally he asked what was wrong and she said, “YOU WOULD THINK, that on a special day like this, you would NOT GIVE me the heal of the bread like YOU ALWAYS DO!”. He said honey, I thought the heal was your favorite part of the loaf too!”<P>So for fifty years he had been sacrificing up HIS favorite part of the loaf, because he thought that it was HER favorite part ALSO. All this time he THOUGHT he was making love deposited while he was actually making large withdraws! I don’t know if it is a true story or not, but it fits many situations in many marriages.<P>About him not showering and my wrong guess, I did something like that too. My wife had been unhappy for almost two years, myself for about one year. I still haven’t written my whole story because I am not sure where to but it in here. Anyway, at about 6 th month, I was feeling like I was invisible etc. and through lack of caring any more, I let my hygiene go to, (+ to make matters worse, I was working at home) I stopped shaving every week, even had a beard at one point, only showered ONCE or twice a week or more, did not really care what I wore and sometimes didn’t even get out of my bathrobe! I was thinking (and was somewhat right) she did not care why should I etc. etc. <P>I did this, and other things, because of what I thought, she thought about me. She did what she thought because of something about me even further back in time and on and on. Round and round we go on a downward spiral. <P>You said: “As far as him being a nice guy and he really hasn't given me reason to leave. Yes he is a nice guy, very nice. But because I love him, I have not left,…”<P>You haven’t? You have left him, numerous times, you just came back. When you are in the “other world” you have build for yourself, you are definitely with your husband mentally or physically, YOU have left him. Just because he does not know doesn’t meant you did not leave. Yes it is not the textbook definition.<P>You said: “even though, he HAS given me reason to!” What reasons, just so we are clear about the reasons you feel. I gather WSs have very real reasons and CREATE or exaggerate reasons to JUSTIFY the terrible things they are doing and/or are doing. We all do this, we have to so in our mind, WE are not the bad guy. When I was a prison officer I noticed that almost all the inmates had something in common. They all had things worked out in their mind. They ALL believed they HAD to do what they did because ___________________________. ß-Fill in reason here. Some real, some imagined, yet NONE of the reasons could be validated by society. If they did have a REAL reason, they would not be in prison. If you kill someone in self-defense, you were genuinely fearing for your life anther that of another, you will not go to prison. <P> What do you put in the blank space above? Just look here for some where you said”<P>“THANK YOU!!! Hearing that made things so much clearer. That is exactly why I don't want to give OM up. He LISTENS to me, is attentive, romantic, finds me attractive, shows genuine excitement over seeing me….”<P>Your husband doesn’t LISTEN to you, doesn’t shower you with ATTENTION, is not at all ROMANTIC, FIND YOU ATTRACTIVE, and is not ever EXCITED OVER SEEING YOU, right? Also gives of himself to the IN-LAWS (OW?) parts of him you want.<P>Also I wonder if you are clear on this point, your first response is in reference to my statement that your husband is, “not blowing your skirt op anymore, or enough, no romance, and defiantly OLD NEWS ;<P>You said: “I don't think of him as OLD NEWS, and he does turn me on when he DOES make love to me. I am NOT looking for perfection...<P>And yet in another area of your thoughts you said:<P>“When we are intimate, more often than not I feel like a porthole for his pleasure (sorry for the crudeness)and not a woman.” More often than not?! Confusing isn’t it. My wife and I have hade many talks. One problem is that even she in not entirely clear on some of the details regarding what motivated her to have an affair. <P>My wife also talked many times to me about things she was having problems with me about. ONE of which was about me working well over 80 hours a week with no days off for a long time. I thought this, without a doubt, would SHOW HER how much I loved her! She felt the opposite. (the heal of bread). She tried many times, I tried many time regarding problems I was having with her. Why we did not SEE or HEAR the others attempts to make corrections, expressions of love etc. But mostly, she kept quiet about what she was unhappy about. All the wile big dumb me went on my marry way thinking we were ok for along time. Then not knowing, what was wrong etc etc. WELL WE ARE LISTENING NOW!<P>What I am getting at is VERY IMPORTANT. Of all the problems past and present we are having, no matter what it was about, big or small, was a communication problem. ALL OF THEM. Do you really think that your husband wouldn’t please your needs if he really knew what they were? Perhaps he is incapable, you have told him this or that over and over ‘t know with no results or short-lived results. I don’t know HOW you can get your husband to REALLY HEAR YOU, and for YOU TO REALLY HEAR HIM TOO! But is MUST BE DONE. We are all different.<P>Pray. BUT BE CLEAR WHAT YOU PRAY FOR, REALLY CLEAR! I prayed for along time for my wife to be at a weight she was happy with and at first for us to get our marriage back on track, and for her to want sex more than once every month or so. Then after many months, when I thought she would be happier without me, I prayed for God to show me either how to fix the marriage of 19 years or how to end it.<P>Well guess what, she went form about 240LBS (she is about 5’ 5’) to about 130LBS, and had a Internet affair for about 2-3 months that moved into the real world. But it does seem to have answered all my prayers. I love how things are now but would REALLY liked to have had them come about a different way.<P>I hope you have ENDED the affair including telling the OM it is over and even if you do really leave your husband it will not be with or for the OM! Because between the OM and your husband most or ALL of your needs are getting filled, right? Naturally you will not try as hard to have H fill a need that OM is filling, and perhaps don’t want to. Not wanting to because you like the OM filling the need better, but as long as H is not filling the need you can justify you actions. Also your H is less likely to detect what you need if the need is being filled by OM. <P>You don’t like the idea of telling H ALL. I can’t guarantee if he will stay or go, if it will make a better marriage or not. BUT I can guarantee it will not only hurt him in a big way but it will also wake him up and OPEN HIM UP to communicating better to you how you are not, and need to fill HIS NEEDS! If he stays he will be very willing to listen. YOU have decided not to tell him. That is a very difficult decision. It is a huge hit on the head capable of wakening ANYBODY UP! <P>So HOW DO YOU GET YOUR MARRIAGE BACK ON TRACK? The answer is simple, yet difficult. If you are not going to use the “tell him all” hammer to wake him, you and your marriage up, YOU NEED to find a way to have the same IMPACT, same size hammer if you will. If you refuse to tell him you have a big mission, mission wake up. H has gotten lazy, complacent, does take you for granite, is in a rut also, is, in effect asleep. <P>People have been telling the FAA and the USA that more needs to be done to increase security for air travel. Trying to get billions spent. We were ALL complacent, took out freedom for granite, not willing to have any more delays for security checks and on and on. Well we are ALL awake now! Now the changes will be made! How would anyone have gotten the changes made last week, before the world trade center towers collapsed? Well you are that person, dropped in history 30 days ago in a way. I am not sure if I am making this clear with this lame parallel I am trying to draw for you.<P> Comence mission wake up. If you can’t get him to HEAR you, (and you have to HEAR HIM), are you making as big an impact as telling him you are having an affair? If not try harder. I wish I had. Communications and action are the key to ALL YOUR MARRIAGE PROBLEMS. Can I suggest you pray for strength, wisdom and for both your hearts to open to each other?<P>Good luck, God bless<BR>

<small>[ March 24, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: 2worlds ]</small>

2 worlds,<P> Hi Lady. I am so happy to see that you are getting advice from others more in tune with what you are going through. I hope you are starting to feel welcome here. As I told you in your first post to MB, this is a wonderful place with even greater people. <P> I hope that you did not mind that I asked the fine people on the recovery board to come talk with you. I felt there would be some WSes that had been in familar waters such as yourself. While I haven't read all the posts to you I can you are getting lots of advice. I hope it is helping your situation, or at least your understanding of what the BS as well as other WS go through.<P> God Bless, and good luck.<P> jd

2worlds you have said several times now you will not tell H of the affair cause YOU think it is best (for various reasons). I am curious how you come to the conclusion you have any right whatsoever to decide what another human being should or should not know about their life? You have absolutely no right to withhold information vital to his well-being. He is living with a cheater, whether past or present, and does not know, that is a monstroud deception. Do you think he (or anyone including you) would ever accept that another human being (no matter who, parent, spouse, child whatever) has any right to withold information? So your doing so is a huge act of aggression against your husband, and all your rationalizations really don't change that do they? Not only that violation of human rights, but from a relationship standpoint you (everyone) has an obligation to tell a spouse all their feelings, ESPECIALLY the ones that may lead to them deciding not to be married to you. By witholding such info, you are essentailly tricking them into remaining married to you. How is this a marriage?

<BR>sad_n_lonely,<BR>I read your post several times, and I see what you are saying. Suprisingly, I agree with it. But I am not, at this point, going to tell. I am being selfish, I am being ruthless, I will suffer myself. I do not want to make him suffer because of my mistakes. I know, he deserves to know, but he also deserves to be happy. I do not want to give him pain. I am taking as many steps as I can to fix this. As many as I am willing to right now. Hopefully it will be enough. I made copies of the Emotional Needs Questionnaire, and we will work on that. I know, I know, I know..I am probably fooling myself. But this is what I am going to do for now. Maybe later, maybe I will tell him. For now, I will not. <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How is this a marriage?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I can't answer that. It probably isn't. Time will tell.

jdmack1,<BR>Thank you SO much! Your kindness has meant alot to me. Your insights, and other's, have pushed me in the right direction. I have been floundering for a very long time. I still am a little, but I have a better view now, of not only my actions, but my reasons that put me there. I see that <I>some</I> of the reason, wrong or right, was out of anger at him not being there for me when I needed him most. I see I was angry because he had the OW (his mom) and I couldn't compete. I am to blame for most of this I believe, so I have alot of soul searching to do, and figuring out where I am. I know where I want to go. This is going to be a long hard journey, but it is time. <BR>:-)<P>

2worlds, I think you need to read the post again...<P>2worlds...I read your post several times, and I see what you are saying. Suprisingly, I agree with it. But I am not, at this point, going to tell. I am being selfish, I am being ruthless, <P>snl...So far, ok, an acknowledgement of deliberate agression against another human being...you husband.<P>2worlds...I will suffer myself. I do not want to make him suffer because of my mistakes. <P>snl...A bald faced naked self-serving rationalization. No human being ever does anything other than exactly what they want to do, unless coercion is apllied (usually a credible threat of physical violence). You may be suffering now, but your concern is you will suffer more if you tell, either directly on you, or having to deal with his pain, either way you have chosen a path designed to reduce YOUR pain. If it is truly his pain, then tell him now, cause your secrecy is hurting him MORE. This is the common self-serving rationalization of all ws's.... the fact is he already knows, he knows cause you are acting differently than if you did not have an affair. You are not God, and cannot possibly know the many many currents going on between you and he, and the ripple effects in his life or his psychological well-being. You are hurting him everyday, he just doesn't know why. Deliberately witholding the vital information he needs to understand this is a brutal act of hostility.<P>2worlds...I know, he deserves to know, but he also deserves to be happy. I do not want to give him pain. I am taking as many steps as I can to fix this. <P>snl...You have no status to fix anything for another human being. By all means fix yourself, but whether you stop or not, the damage has already been done, you have to tell him, you have no right not to, for any reason at all. Each one of us is a sovereign human being, with a fundamental right to know the truth about ourselves. You are acting as his judge jury and executioner. Whatever affect if has on him is HIS right to live with, and decide how to react too, how in the world did you ever get to the point you decided you are the arbiter of another human beings happiness. What if it were reversed. Do you accept the right of anyone in your life, to censor what you get to know or not about issues which affect your life? Are you a child? Is your H your child?<P>2worlds...As many as I am willing to right now. Hopefully it will be enough. I made copies of the Emotional Needs Questionnaire, and we will work on that. I know, I know, I know..I am probably fooling myself. <P>snl...Yes you are fooling...no not fooling...LIEING to yourself, and your H. You are not trying to work on anything, you are trying to CONTROL, your H can never be an effective participant in this process until he knows all the reality. You sound like a bright woman. But you also are very manipulative, and not very ethical, even for a ws. I cannot imagine why your H would stay married to you if this is how you plan to live. I think you know that, and that also influences not telling (in other words giving up control).<P>2worlds...But this is what I am going to do for now. Maybe later, maybe I will tell him. For now, I will not.<P>snl...Well there it is, your H will keep dancing on your string until you decide to let him be a man, and decide his own destiny. Must feel very powerful 2worlds, to own a human being that , and you know what they say about absolute power....you need to tell, for your sake as well as his, you are turning into kind of a ...well let's just say not a very nice person. <P>I am not trying to be mean here, but what you are doing is very very wrong, and violates your H so badly. You have no status or right to make such a decision. While one can argue a short term deception re affairs is a natural outcome of being messy humans, the secrecy is about the conflict of interests between 2 married people....but it must end pretty quickly and the bs dignity restored by disclosure...either by divorce, or by a reconcilliation effort. To inflict this psychological injury on another human being and never tell them is unacceptable...with the possible exception of fearing for your personal safety, but then of course you should have at least divorced em.<P>

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2Worlds,<P>As a betrayed spouse, I do think you owe your husband a) a certain period of time when you were free of the influence of your lover to try and better your marriage and b) the truth. However, telling him the truth doesn't seem to me that you must do it immediately.<P>If you want to keep your marriage, it seems perfectly reasonable to me for you to end the affair and enter counseling on your own for a brief period of maybe a couple months. You could use that time to prepare yourself for telling your husband about your affair, which at that point will have been over for a couple of months. Do you have the strength to separate from your lover and maintain a strict policy of no contact? <P>I am glad that you followed by link to the emotional needs questionnaire. Have you filled out your portion? Do you think you'll have much luck getting your husband to fill out his? He sounds as if he is in a state of withdrawal from your marriage. Have you read the Harleys material on intimacy, conflict, and withdrawal?<P>I think that if you take some time to work on yourself and your contributions to the breakdown in your marriage, your husband will begin to see the changes and is more likely to want to stay in your marriage you to reveal your affair.<P>Just my thoughts,<BR>Mrs. Job <p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited September 17, 2001).]

2Ws, ClydeA told me to look you up. Boy, do we have a lot in common. I have to run off to work for a bit tonight so not just sure when I can write you but hopefully soon. <P>I skipped page 2 so I don't know if you cut things off with OM yet but beg you to do so, if not. I am a WS, sexually abused in childhood, libido went haywire (always was strong) when I recovered thru therapy from abuse(H told a friend I was too much woman to handle--if only I had remembered that huge compliment when I chose to get entangled emotionally with OM--we did not consummate but it was pretty sexual even so), I am now overweight, so many parallels.<P>Your story is important to me so I will try my best to write you asap. I likely will start a post since this one is getting so long so please look for it Tuesday or Thursday this week (I have Thursday off but hope to reach you tomorrow)<P>You are right..you will ache like crazy when you confess and go into rebuilding mode (I think your H will forgive you--sure hope so) but life gets a lot better and you will not believe the joy and release of living with no secrets.<P>I don't know if SKM has been here; if not, I'll contact her about your story, too.<P>Thanks, ClydeA...<P>Again I apologize for the rush note...it's been a crazy day!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Fresh Start

Thank you for your help, Mrs. Job, ClydeA, Freshstart, and even you, sad_n_lonely. (I'm sorry, I immaturaly say that because I am angry at what you wrote..probably because I don't want to face that..but, nevertheless, I can't avoid it..hence my next statement)<P>Tonight, I am numb...<P>Freshstart..I look foward to talking with you. Thank you.<P>2worlds

ok 2worlds, I have had my say, you have read it, I won't beat ya up anymore, btw in case your have forgotten, I am a ws too, so is not like I haven't been there. And for a time, I too thought it could be kept secret, was just my business...but I read the harley stuff about honesty, relationships, and realized I could never really be any good to anyone (including myself) by hurting someone, then convincing myself it was best not to hurt em more by telling em, that is the road to hell. It may hurt, he may dump you, he may even hurt himself, but the point is, the damage has already been done, he and you, and I and everyone deserve our human dignity, and it is just flat out wrong to take away someones right to decide for themself how to deal with life. It diminishes them, as well as you, when such a secret is kept, no good will ever come from it. Good luck.

2Worlds, come "for coffee" to Other topics..."2Worlds, You are on my list today"...posted today. We do have a lot in common in some ways. I think I may be able to help you a bit and still hope all your friends will also join us--do hope some recovering WSs will also take notice of you.<P>SKM doesn't always visit as often now but I can get in touch with her. She really helped me at the outset of my journey. Go back and read some of her old posts..she is one amazing lady.<P>I am sorry for the hurt feelings and sure hope I will not offend you with my candid remarks in my post to you. For me when I first came here I felt so guilty and hurt that I often recoiled at things said...some people are a little too harsh but usually the hope is to communicate urgently their concern for you. <P>I still hate reading WS bashing posts and tend to ignore them..came across one tonight. I understand that BSs are hurting and really appreciate the many who can find some shreds of hope from our perspectives.<P>So, come over, ok?

2Worlds:<P>Have you read Freshstarts response to you in another thread today.<P>Gosh, it is not in General Questions, but in another forum. Itis worth your reading.<P>Clyde

Sorry .. Hadn't realized Freshstart had posted here telling you to find her response to you in "Other Topics".<P>Clyde