<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by peppermint:<BR><B>And I do see real hope for impulsive's marriage, don't you? Peppermint</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do. I am jealous at his rate of improvement. I have been at this for a year, and my W hasn't communicated as much in total as his did last week...I think there was a lot more love left in her tank than imp thought.<BR>

I feel very lucky because I could have lost her forever. She is very confused right now. I'm mad at myself for getting out of the bed last night but that water under the bridge right now. Griz, Hang in there buddy. I know as well as anyone what that hopeless feeling in the bottom of your stomach feels like. She needs time dude. Time to see some change. As long as I was in my wife's face everyother day saying give me another chance I saw no improvement. I left her alone for about a week and the change set in on her. I'm not out of the woods by a long shot, but I'm still in the game. Peppermint I agree with everything you said. I'm giving her the weekend alone to think things through. I'm taking the boys to Cleveland for a hockey tournament. So she will be here alone. (I think! Then she will be going to California for a week to visit her sister. We will have some time apart and I hope the distance does us some good like it has in the past. I think I have to do a better job, projecting a fun loving personality. She sees my changes as too laid back and reserved I think. Should I get more aggressive trying to meet her needs or should I still stay back? She has made it clear sex is not a priority for her right now so I guess more cold showers are in my immediate future. What is the plan once they start to come out of withdrawal a little?

Well!! I heard the magic words tonight. Let me give you background first. I picked her up for work. She said she had a couple of beers at work. I said well would you like to have a nightcap with me? She said ooh My God, would you really have a drink. I said well I bought a bottle of Cabernet to go with the new new wine rack that I bought today. She always complained in the past that I never bought anything for the house. So today I did. Anyway we sat down and started talking and drinking a very good bottle of R.H. Phillips Cabernet Sauvignon. I started by telling her you know while your at work at night I miss you so much! She said that is so very nice to hear. Then she said but you know the bad part about our situation is that not only am I dealing with the emotional baggage of our marriage but now I'm having to deal with other issues, from my childhood. (Deeper then you can ever imagine)(Sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and a mother with 6 certified personalities, never knowing her father and a step father that sexually abused her) I told her that if I was selfish I would just want to work on our marriage, but I understand and love her enough to want to help her deal with and overcome those issues also, before jumping into our problems. I also made her understand that she is worth it to me. She said that through all the bull**** she has come to realize that I'M NOW THE MAN THAT SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH!!. She said that the issue she is dealing with is where did I go for all that time? That is her highest hurdle. Dealing with what made me get off course knowing that I had our families lives in my hands. I explained that it was two fold. First it comes from my mother. My mother is the most compassionate, giving, and loving person on the face of the earth, but she has depression issues. I'm the same way. I can't function unless I know that everything is going to be o.k. I've grown past that point over the last month. The other part is that I lost my spiritual compass. I made a decision to leave God out of my life! My life was not teh same every since. The other side to is my father. 25 years ago he decides he was not going to eat meat again and he never looked back. I have that in me too. Once I have my mind made up. I'm like a machine. The problem is getting to the point where my mind is made up like it is now! I told her my mind is made up to love, respect, honor and cherish her for the rest of our lives! She said you know I'm horny as hell right now but I'm forcing myself to ignore it because I'm so emotionally drained right now from the tramua of trying to satisfy you while you were depressed. She said the thought of sex makes her emotionally exhausted. I said you know you are worth the patience, and love and supporrt I'm going to have to give you to get to the next level of our journey. The bottom line is I think we took a giant step tonight. She said I'm that guy she fell in love with. She is just scared I'm going to disappear again. She also said that her pipes are working! She is just forcing the overide switch. I'm as happy as I've been in years. I think this is progress!!!!!!!!! Am I right? OHH my God. I love this women more then I can put into words! OK people 4th quarter, two minute warning and the game is on the line! I'm down by a touchdown but I have the ball in the red zone!(Inside the 20 yard line of the opponent) MikeC2, Kareena, Stillhers, Everybody that have ever gave me advice, give me input now. I love this woman and I'm determined to save my family. Call the play. I need a touchdown! What do I do?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B> I'm as happy as I've been in years. I think this is progress!!!!!!!!! Am I right? OHH my God. I love this women more then I can put into words! OK people 4th quarter, two minute warning and the game is on the line! I'm down by a touchdown but I have the ball in the red zone!(Inside the 20 yard line of the opponent) MikeC2, Kareena, Stillhers, Everybody that have ever gave me advice, give me input now. I love this woman and I'm determined to save my family. Call the play. I need a touchdown! What do I do?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>You are NOT down by a touchdown. You just tied the game all by yourself. You are the expert on your wife. Now that you are back at an even tie, she IS open to you meeting many, if not all, of her needs.<P>What play are you thinking of?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B><BR>She said that through all the bull**** she has come to realize that I'M NOW THE MAN THAT SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH!!. She said that the issue she is dealing with is where did I go for all that time? That is her highest hurdle.<P>...OK people 4th quarter, two minute warning and the game is on the line! I'm down by a touchdown but I have the ball in the red zone!(Inside the 20 yard line of the opponent) MikeC2, Kareena, Stillhers, <P>...Call the play. I need a touchdown! What do I do?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If you want a football analogy, I'd say keep running the same plays that have been successful until the other team stops them. In other words, don't get all excited and make a dramatic change now.<P>The real concern I read into the "where did you go all that time?" business is the unspoken question "how do I know you won't go away again?". The only way to reassure her there is time. Keep demonstrating that the changes are permanent.<P>I'd be cautious about coming up with a "new play" at this time, unless there's a good reason to. That's a good way to show her that the changes are not permanent. If the plays you're running now are working, why change? Keep showing the consistency. Sometimes what works is not a new play, but playing hard through the fourth quarter...you just have to be patient and have endurance.<P>If you have something else in mind, like Karenna, I'd ask what is it?<P>Just my quick thoughts. I couldn't sleep and decided to check your thread.<P>Steve<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Then she said but you know the bad part about our situation is that not only am I dealing with the emotional baggage of our marriage but now I'm having to deal with other issues, from my childhood. (Deeper then you can ever imagine)(Sexual abuse, emotional abuse, and a mother with 6 certified personalities, never knowing her father and a step father that sexually abused her) I told her that if I was selfish I would just want to work on our marriage, but I understand and love her enough to want to help her deal with and overcome those issues also, before jumping into our problems. I also made her understand that she is worth it to me. She said that through all the bull**** she has come to realize that I'M NOW THE MAN THAT SHE FELL IN LOVE WITH!!. She said that the issue she is dealing with is where did I go for all that time?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, that's an ugly enough childhood for anyone to have to endure. She's a real <I>survivor</I> just to be able to live day-to-day. She'll also <I>flood</I> emotionally much more easily than the average woman. The normal protective mechanisms that women possess are <I>absent</I> or at least crippled. It's hard for her to have difficult discussions--<I>you</I> need to be very gentle.<P>With this new information, I would say the problem was neither in you nor in her, but obviously <I>between</I> the two of you. How to explain this? <P>Suppose you're both perfect. Well, obviously things are <I>always</I> good (I know: impossible, or hardly ever happens). Like Tolstoy said: "All happy families are alike. Each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."<P>So both of you are imperfect. But when things are pretty good, you can both keep the parts of yourselves that function well "out front" doing the job of keeping the marriage in good shape. If one of you starts slipping a little, the other corrects the imbalance. <P>The problem starts snowballing when one of you is having a problem moment simultaneously with the other. Then <I>A</I>is too distracted, troubled, etc. to help <I>B</I>, so <I>both</I> A <I>and</I> B's problems start spiralling. Who should take the blame? I don't think either of you should.<P>Where did you go? Well where did she go? The problem is not resting <I>inside</I> either of you, you need to be bouncing it back and forth between you like a basketball. Yes, you both still have your own internal "<I>issues</I>" that need to be addressed on their own. But the problem is outside both of you.<P>And if you feel you'll score brownie points you can still take the blame for the bulk of it--of course you still have plenty of bad behavior to answer for. But, without expressing any certainty in it, plant the seed in her mind that it wasn't <I>entirely</I> you, especially since she now knows she had the other issues going. <P>Try to bring her to the conclusion that both of you are still a little disoriented by everything that has gone on, and it's time to try to sort everything out with a professional. <P>While the pendulum of her emotional state has swung toward acceptance of you, it's important to plug her into committment to a <I>process</I> of restoring your marriage. This moment is that elusive <I>momentum</I> that must be taken advantage of in order to get <I>traction</I> so that you two can move forward. If you miss taking advantage of it, you may have to endure another cycle.<P>The fallback position would be that she and you should work on your issues <I>separately</I> and be patient to see if addressing them will help rejuvenate the marriage. Frankly, I don't like the idea of a shrink getting hold of her alone--there are no guarantees that the therapist's approach will be friendly to the marriage <I>unless</I> they're carefully vetted first. But if you do the latter, it's better than nothing.<P>Remember the Harleys.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 02, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Call the play. I need a touchdown! What do I do?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't fumble. Ball control.<P>Rather than look at this great, albeit alcohol-aided, milestone as an end game or a turning point, look at it as another probe into the new you. If you overreact in jubilation, she will feel the need to correct with a downer for you. A volatile reaction from you will make her less likely to poke her nose out again. Don't be surprised if she doesn't feel the need to dampen your enthusiasm today or tonite. <P>Then again,. maybe the Nasdaq just has me depressed today <P>Either way, try not to get too high or too low. Think about what is working, and stay with that plan. <P>But between you and me...YAY! <BR>

GREAT NEWS!<P>Question: Have you seen improvement with what you have been doing? If so, KEEP DOING IT! Patience and steady progress. Remember that your marital problems happened gradually and so will the improvement. Changes that you make slowly and steadily will become lifetime changes, not just "flash-in-the-pan" events.<P>You're doing great!<P>Peppermint

Not much advice that I can give, but I do agree with Mike. Ball Control. Hail Mary passes are rarely effective in any situation. You may feel like you are a touchdown behind, but you still have all your time outs. Stick with what you have been doing. <I>No trick plays now.</I> <P>Griz

Hi Folks,<P> Looks like you guys have the right idea - sorry if what I said came across as an "Admonishment" - was really more intended as a "be careful" - but even more "be NICE!"<P> Folks on this board (me included) are here because we have, will, or possibly expect to encounter "challenges" with our marriages. Some folks coming here for the first time are already very upset and on the edge of walking out of doing some other such drastic thing. <P> Guess I would just add that people are especially sensitive at time like this, and the folks who have been through it and maybe formed some strong opinions need to handle our "newbies" with kid gloves. I've had a couple of complaints/concerns of people being "chased off" or "scared away" - and that or outright abuse is the only time I will say anything as Moderator. <P>This forum is great - it is actually one of the better ones I have seen - on any subject - and considering people here are hurt, needy, and unsure (speaking for myself, of course - the rest of you guys have it all together!) we manage to keep pretty civil. I think that speaks very highly of us all!<P><BR>So once again - the only caution is be nice! As for the newer folks, don't let a strong personality or forceful presentation scare you away - you will find the full range of opinions on this forum - pick and choose as you see fit.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Valiant, Moderator<BR>Marriage Builders Forum

I growing very tired of the roller coaster routine here! We had what I thought was a break through. I go away for two days, and it's like we are back at step 1. I'm starting to think that maybe this whole thing is a mistake. I will maintain my changes but maybe I'm changing for someone else the Lord wants to put in my life? Just the day to day struggle of dealing with this situation is all that I can bear. This progress one day and the next like nothing happened is way over the top for me. I am so pissed right now it not even funny. I went out to day and bought her some underwear from Victoria's Secret. We were talking and she said that she went to buy herself some underwear and didn't know her sizes because since we've been together I always bought her undies. So I sneak off and buy her some Vicky's Secret, and some Chocolate from Godiva's at the mall. She see's me come in with it and asks me is that for me? I said of course! She said ooh I didn't know if it was for a girlfriend or something I don't know about. This aggrevated the crap out of me because I'm busting my butt trying to plan A and get across the gravity of my sincerity, and that was like a slap in the face to me! OK you don't want to be married no more that's one thing but this whole BS routine rubbing my nose in it while she benefits from the fruits of my pain is draining love units out of my bank faster then crap through a goose! Right now I want to say the HELL with it all. She came in from work last night, and didn't even have the courtesy to say goodnight. She seems distracted to me and I'm starting to think there is more to this equation then what meets the eye. I don't need to be here to suffer. I don't need her rubbing my nose in it. I can be out the house, and be just as miserable, at least then is just pure misery, not misery one day and jubilation the next, and then back to misery. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I growing very tired of the roller coaster routine here! We had what I thought was a break through. I go away for two days, and it's like we are back at step 1.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm sorry you've had a bad day. I'm going to give you my take here. Call it Steve's(me not Steve H) corollary to Harley's theorem if you like math . Hang with me while I give an example.<P>As you know, Dr. Harley talks about making love bank deposits. Say your wife needs 500 LBUs (Love Bank Units) to be deposited in order to be in love with you. You are at perhaps -150 when you realize you have a real problem and start making deposits. You see very few results from you first few hundred LBUs deposited. The temptation is to think that nothing is happening. However, the deposits do have an effect even when you don't see it. When you get to 350 units (arbitrary figure) she starts to at least like you somewhat, enough to make some difference at times, but not enough to be in love.<P>This is where my corollary comes in. Harley basically regards a deposit as a deposit which has a set value. If you don't make any for a while you keep the same balance if you don't love bust. You don't get interest and it doesn't evaporate. I think that when you're close to the 500 LBU threshhold something different happens. You've been making deposits, you make another one for 25 LBUs to get to 375. You've become a pretty good customer of the Love Bank and just made another deposit. In the moment, she doesn't check your balance, just feels good about another deposit. In the good feeling of the moment she treats you like a customer with 600 LBUs on deposit. Later, she records the deposit and does the math. You're at 375, still short of the 500.<P>You got treated temporarily like a customer with a 500 LBU balance. You didn't really have it, you just got a taste of what you're not really entitled to yet. You did get credit for your deposit, you are at 375. You're not really there yet, but you're getting there. Just like Harley says, your deposits didn't evaporate, you just thought they did because you were misled into thinking you'd gone over the magic 500 mark when you hadn't.<P>Don't be misled, though. Those moments when you get treated like you have do have 500 mean you are getting closer.<P>Does this sound farfetched? Well, I'm a BS not a WS, but I'm in your wife's position. My wife had really depleted my love bank badly. I basically let her know that she was in danger of losing me if she didn't change, and she has been trying.<P>She's made some deposits, her balance in my love bank has been going up, but I'm not in love. However, a couple of times lately after she's made a deposit I've found myself feeling pretty good for awhile. I'm talking about a deposit no different from the ones she has been making, just starting from a higher Love Bank balance. However, after a while I stop feeling good, tally up her balance and I'm not in love. I feel again the anger at the things she's done and the frustrations I have with her. It's like she'd never made any deposits.<P>The key is, she has made deposits and is getting closer to the magic amount. Right now, though, her balance is only high enough to get a temporary effect. In time that will change IF SHE DOESN'T GIVE UP.<P>I suspect the same is happening with your situation.<P>I hope you'll hang in there--you really haven't been at this all that long. Keep up the good work, vent here not at your wife.<P>Hope this helps.<P>Steve<P><BR>

impulsive,<P>Maybe you should change your name to IMPATIENT. Try to think about things from the other side for a bit. How tired do you think your wife became living with you the way things were? As you described the situation, it didn't sound like you were being very pleasant to live with for a long while there either. I often wonder why some people think they can behave very badly, and then just say "I'm sorry" and it will all be over.<P>Let me explain something very simple about withdrawal. It takes steady effort to tear down those walls! I wondered why on earth you thought being apart for a couple of days would be helpful, when it is actually just the opposite. You need to be together as much as you possibly can. Have you actually read the Harley material? That's one of the reasons they emphasize NOT moving out except as a last resort. Being apart allows the withdrawing spouse to harden towards their partner again. In other words, you make some steps forward, and then lose momentum by not being there to constantly reinforce it.<P>In my opinion, the Victoria's Secret thing was a little too strong, though the chocolates were a good idea. When she made the comment about the underwear, you could have offered to take her shopping, or told her that you hoped to have the chance to buy her some lingerie someday soon.<P>When a spouse is withdrawn (from my own experience here), doing something that comes on too strong makes them withdraw from reach a little further. A withdrawn spouse needs to be coaxed to come closer, not lassoed!<P>You sort of need to face the fact that you are in for a long ride, like it or not. Sure, you can decide to just give up and get off, and if your marriage isn't worth the effort to you maybe that is the best choice. I can also tell you this, if you make comments to your wife like the ones you made in your last post, she might be the one to jump off and you will have no choice in the matter. I mentioned this to you previously, but it is true. It took a while for your marriage to get in trouble and it will take just as long to get out of it. I wish it were easier, but it isn't.<P>Your wife is not going to do everything you want. That's life. You are not doing everything she wants either. That's life too.<P>Peppermint

Stillhers thanks for the clarification. I appreciate that scenario however I need a graph. I need to know what my balance is today. I need to know what my balance was a month ago, and I would like to know how many LBU I get for every kind act. This in the dark is crushing. <BR>Peppermint I hear you lound and clear. It's not that I just want to say I'm sorry and act like nothing happened. I just want a opportunity to show with deeds that I've changed and it's not lip service. If I screw up or go back to the old me, I wouldn't bother her another day in my life, because nobody deserves to live the way I made our lives. I would like to get of ground zero! I would like to go forward even slowly if we were moving. I don't expect a overnight miracle, but why stay in limbo? Does she want to stay where she is now forever? You can never steal 2nd base if your scared to take your foot off of 1st base! It would be easier for me if I just stopped lovebusting and stopped trying to make Love Bank deposits. Is this ok? I mean that way I don't get my hopes so high right? Next week she goes to California for a week. So what happens then? We go forward for a week and then backwards again? I've read in the Harley's material ususally after one spouse withdraws the other one soon follows. Well I see why. It's a natural reaction. There has to be some type positve feedback from the other side. I'm a very results oriented person. It goes along with my entreprenuerial, salesperson personality. If I can't see progress then it feel like a waste of time. Just like it feels permanantly over to her I feel like I'm pissing in the wind, and my leg is getting wet! I just want to go to sleep for a couple of months, and hopefully everything will feel better after I wake up. I would not screw up again if someone gave me $2,000,000.00 dollars to. I feel like withdrawing and maybe I'm impatient but I have given it 100%, once a person has done everything they can to make things better and they don't get better. What can you do?

Impulsive,<P>Perhaps you ARE giving it 100% right now, but your wife doesn't see it yet. And how long have you been giving the 100%, especially in comparison to the amount of time you basically gave 0%?<P>The fact is that it doesn't take much time or effort to screw everything up, but it takes a lot more work and time to make everything right. Answer this HONESTLY- how long have things been going badly in your marriage? How long have you REALLY been working to try to make things right?<P>You are honestly expecting too much too soon. It is totally unrealistic to think that once things start improving there will never be any setbacks. Your main complaint seems to be that your wife isn't giving you enough positive feedback. What kind of feedback were you giving her when your marriage was falling apart? What kind are you honestly giving her now?<P>Even if you are doing everything perfectly right, the feelings you want her to have are not going to reappear overnight. It will take a long time to repair the damage that has been done to your relationship. It might even take years.<P>As to what will happen when the two of you are apart for a week, my best guess is that she will be very cool to you when the two of you see each other again. The wall of withdrawal will be reinforced during the week apart, and you will have to start tearing it down again.<P>Impulsive, after I agreed to stay with my husband I felt that I was doing a lot just by staying with him and allowing him the CHANCE to repair the damage that he had done. Your wife probably feels the same way. It was very hard to be nice and cooperative to someone who had brought me so much unhappiness. It was very difficult not to scream and throw things and tell him how much I hated what he had done to our marriage. Sometimes I did those things even though I tried not to.<P>Your wife is not happy either. She would NEVER have chosen this for her life. You need to really try to see things from her perspective. You seem to be doing things for your wife only because you believe they will bring the result YOU want. Try doing nice things for her because you want to be good to her and because they will make HER feel better, not because you hope for benefits for yourself right now. Believe me, the benefits WILL come for both of you. But maybe not today or tomorrow.<P>It seems that in every marriage there are times when one spouse has to work harder and sacrifice more than the other spouse. Your wife has had to do that in the past, and now you must do it. Your wife doesn't have the desire or energy right now, and if YOU don't take the initiative you will both end up with a failed relationship.<P>I really don't think that is what you want, but maybe I am wrong.<P>Peppermint

[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I went out to day and bought her some underwear from Victoria's Secret.</B><P>Dude, you called for a play from the sidelines, we sent in a fullback up the middle, ball control, low risk play, and you ran a triple reverse with three laterals!<P>She took the lingerie as sexual pressure, no doubt. After your nice talk with her and a good week of LB deposits, you have to learn to savor your successes a little more, rest on your laurels. I'm at the point where when I make a lovebank coup, I almost want to hide, like, not give myself the chance to screw it up. <P>Read back over the advice youhave gotten here. It WILL be a roller coaster. She WILL test you by being cold or b@$chy. There WILL be setbacks. These are all OPPORTUNITIES.<P>Mayube her remark about you having a girlfriend was good natured joking...how did you react, precisely? One bad moment like that can erase a month of deposits, you have to have DISCIPLINE.<P>Your comment about thinking there was something more going on bothered me. Do you now suspect an OM?<P>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by StillHers:<BR><B> In the good feeling of the moment she treats you like a customer with 600 LBUs on deposit. Later, she records the deposit and does the math. You're at 375, still short of the 500. You got treated temporarily like a customer with a 500 LBU balance. You didn't really have it, you just got a taste of what you're not really entitled to yet.</B><P>LOL....I loved this post. I spent a lot of time talking to Steve Harley about "how" my W would fall back in love, whether it would be in one fell weepy swoop, or whether it would be gradual, and sort of sneak up on her, I suspect it is the latter, and I am pretty close to the line. But she definitley has been acting more like she likes me. I remember back in the summer, one of the things that woke me up was a post here from somebody, it may have been KAM, who said "hey, you have to realize, she probably hated your guts until recently" Yow, that was tough to absorb, but it was maybe correct...but it put things in perspective, and humbled me to keep my head down and grind away with Plan A. impulsive, you reading here?<P>The other thing to remember here is that there is a NECESSARY element of time, in order for the withdrawn spouse to heal and trust that the new Plan Aer is for real. It is almost like there is a monthly maximum of 10o units, or something. You can't craft a 500 point mega Lovebank deposit and get there in one day. <p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited March 04, 2001).]

impulsive,<P>The equilibrium of your marriage is disturbed. <I>Both</I> of you are swinging back and forth in <I>cycles</I>, which <I>may</I> or <I>may not</I> coincide at any given time. Your challenge is to damp those cycles and rebuild <I>steadily</I>. Lavish gifts, especially those oriented toward love and sex, don't do it (or if they <I>do</I>, you're teaching the <I>wrong</I> lesson--yes, she has some things to learn too). A certain kind of man who fears abandonment by the wife <I>will</I> go out and buy the gifts. This article may show you which kind of man you really are (when faced with this particular crisis):<BR> <A HREF="http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp</A> <P>You can't observe and predict her rollercoaster very well if you are simultaneously experiencing your own. Give <I>yourself</I> a break--stay even-tempered.

Throughly frustrated last night with the roller coaster ride my wife and I had a enjoyable night. Laying in her bed massaging her. We talked about the relationship a little and she said that we have without a doubt made progress but she is feeling guilty that I seem very impatient. I didn't say to much I just listened. We woke up the next morning and she said a couple of things to me and I gave her 1 word answers and she had a angry outburst. She yelled at me that I am very unfair that I did so much damage to our relationship and now a month later I'm getting myself together and I want everything to be better overnight. I said i don't want everything to be better overnight I just want to make progress. She said it's right back to you everything is centered around you. Then she said God, "I'm Horny" I tried to ignore her. Then she said again, "Why, Am I so Horny?" Then she said Do you want to make love no strings attached? I think I had my clothes off before she finished the sentence. We had unbelievable passionate sex. Afterwards we both layed there in a afterglow. It was totally unexpected, and very gratifiying at the same time. She said I think you just had a little lack of sex frustration going. So I learned a lesson about impatience AGAIN. But where does this put us now. I'm taking no strings attached as a code word for she just needed to get off without the baggage of a relationship. So I guess I'm closer but still far away. Comments please>

Does she <I>mean</I> "no strings"? Of course not. What she means is, no premature conclusion that everything is now "normal" again, or that you are entitled to ask for sex. If she wanted "no strings" sex ... well that's a one-night stand with someone you don't even know. <P>But making love to you is something "big" from her to you and she knows it. Mere thanks from you are <I>not</I> enough. Thank your lucky stars that emotional withdawal doesn't shut down her sex drive, and that she still basically trusts you ... it gives you occasional opportunities like this. <P>So what do you do? Something nice. Something small. Something that is not "pressure". A nice card, or take her out to dinner, or a few flowers from the street vendor. It's time for <I>positive</I> conditioning. Think of any negative consequences that she might see as flowing from here <I>"moment of weakness"</I> and see that she does not experience them, only swift reward.