Do you believe in a personal God who cares about you? Centering your life, perspectives and hopes on a Higher Power should help even out your wild swings and give you a stable emotional platform from which to give. But it takes thought and effort to do this.

You might want to see a doctor. I'm not a big advocate of using medication to control mood, but in your circumstances I think it may be worth considering. And I am a bit concerned about what you have said regarding your diet. You might want to get some advice on that too.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited March 15, 2001).]

Well she is out of town this whole week. So it's just me and my two boys spending a ton of quality time. I've considered medication to control my moods, but I've never been a advocate of medication either. I'm also very scared of side affects. I'm one of those freaks of nature that in 33 years hasn't had as much as a significant common cool, let alone any other type of sickness ever. So I never take medicine for anything. The only sickness I've struggled with is depression lately. I wouldn't struggle with that if I could remain optimistic about the future of this marriage. If my wife would say sit, back, leave me alone and we'll give this marriage another try in a few months or so. I wouldn't have a problem. I could handle that because there is light at the end of the tunnel. It seems like she has gone out of her way to turn out that light despite the positives that have manifested themselves over the last few weeks. We make what is obvious progress and then she not only ignores the progress but she reaches back and dumps a bucket of water over the little flame of hope that is left burning. If I could ignore that and keep going forward when she does that and focus on the next step of progress I would be in better shape. That's why I said I think I would be better off if I withdrew, because then I wouldn't be as emotionally invested in every word that comes out of her mouth, and every single piece of body language. When I say that you guys think I'm saying I want to quit. I just don't want to have mood swings anymore. I don't want to care so much. I don't want to destroy what's left of our marriage, but I also can't keep living the way I've been living the last 7 weeks. I have 3 days to decide whether to continue with plan A when she gets back. Is there any other options besides plan A? On the way to the airport she said to me that a couple of weeks ago I was as close to perfect as a husband could be. So on some levels plan A was working. However rather then trying to capture that and build on it she kills it by thrashing my hopes. I don't know what else to do. Maybe I need a week of vacation to figure out what I want to do.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I've considered medication to control my moods, but I've never been a advocate of medication either. I'm also very scared of side affects. <P>If my wife would say sit, back, leave me alone and we'll give this marriage another try in a few months or so. I wouldn't have a problem. <P>That's why I said I think I would be better off if I withdrew, because then I wouldn't be as emotionally invested in every word that comes out of her mouth, and every single piece of body language.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>#1 check <A HREF="http://www.copewithlife.com" TARGET=_blank>www.copewithlife.com</A> because there are non-medicating choices, as well as a description of the medications. For me, Wellbutrin SR has few side effects.<P>#2 she is saying check back in a while. Only she is saying it in a way that manifests to you her own feelings of hopelessness. In time she will let herself feel hope. <P>#3 What is there besides Plan A? Well, there's Plan B. How are <I>you</I> really doing? If it's <I>only</I> moodswings, then handle those and stay the course. If, however, she's draining your lovebank, then you need to think about Plan B and all that entails. Only you can make that decision, but to me it seems way early for Plan B, because Plan A has not yet been completely sold to her as the <I>essence</I> of what you now <I>are</I>. While it's possible that she will be able to continue to see that while you're in Plan B, I don't think it's that easy. <P>Now the ol' <I>photonegative</I> approach <I>could</I> be described as a <I>modified Plan B</I>, but as you've seen, it is playing with fire. If <I>she</I> approaches again while you are in it, and you don't come toward her a little, you will push her further into withdrawal. Come forward too much, and she is able to top off her affection tanks and push you away again. <P>You're juggling Faberge Eggs while riding a rollercoaster. We all know it <I>ain't fun</I>. And what's happening is affecting brain chemicals. Which have everything to do with your capacity to function. If you can wrestle those chemicals bare-handed, with only talk and thought as your aids, that's fine and dandy. <P>But the hallmark of humanity has been our ability to conceive, create, choose and use tools. Of which drugs are some of our crowning achievements, enabling us to reshape what goes in inside our own bodies and brains. Of course, since you are having a hard time with the very thing that helps you make correct decisions, you should probably have a chat with a physician and lay on him the decision of how you will get better. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>We make what is obvious progress and then she not only ignores the progress but she reaches back and dumps a bucket of water over the little flame of hope that is left burning. If I could ignore that and keep going forward when she does that and focus on the next step of progress I would be in better shape. That's why I said I think I would be better off if I withdrew, because then I wouldn't be as emotionally invested in every word that comes out of her mouth, and every single piece of body language.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to learn to step back and see the forest, not just the trees. You're reacting so strongly to the little bumps on the graph that you have trouble seeing the upward curve.<P>Do you understand <I>why</I> your wife dumps that bucket of water after you make some obvious progress?<P>Have you ever tried to give a treat to a shy animal? When you approach it, it runs away, not sure what to expect from you. Are you a threat, are not? But it wants that treat. How much risk is it willing to take in order to get it? From a relative distance the treat seems worth the risk, but as the animal comes closer, with less opportunity to escape should you prove dangerous, the increased risk becomes more important than the treat, and the animal runs away again. But if you didn't make any threatening moves, it thinks maybe the risk wasn't as great as it thought, and so it comes closer still before running away again. But eventually, if the treat is enticing enough, and if you are patient and don't do anything to scare the animal off, there's a good chance that it will finally drop its guard enough to take the treat. Do this regularly, and the animal will finally come to trust you completely, and will come running when it sees you with a treat.<P>When you experience some "obvious progress", it means your wife has dropped her guard a bit. Then she becomes aware of the risk she's taking and recoils in fear. This is a natural reaction. It is to be <I>expected</I>, and yet each time she reacts this way, you are experiencing it as a personal rejection. That, too, is a natural reaction, but if you remind yourself to look at the big picture, it should be easier to deal with.<P>I don't think withdrawing is a good idea, but I think you <I>do</I> need to reduce your expectations and to stop reading so much into every little thing your wife says and does. <I>Expect</I> slow progress. It's actually what you should <I>want</I>, believe it or not.<P>After a six-month separation, my wife came home prematurely only to panic and run again, this time refusing to have any kind of communication with me and filing for divorce. I'm not saying that to be discouraging: our situations are different. I'm saying it to remind you that slow and steady wins the race.<P>When your wife accepts your overtures and opens up to you, that is a good thing. She's learning tor trust you. When she backs off and withdraws for a time, that's a good thing too. She's building up her strength for another try. Everything that is happening for you can be seen as positive, and it would help a lot if you could just see it that way.<P>I still think your major concern needs to be to take care of yourself while you take advantage of every opportunity your wife gives you to demonstrate your love and trustworthiness. Even with the best perspective and the best attitude, the emotional drain on you is going to be prodigious.<BR>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Well she is out of town this whole week.</B><P>? On business?<P><B>The only sickness I've struggled with is depression lately. I wouldn't struggle with that if I could remain optimistic about the future of this marriage. If my wife would say sit, back, leave me alone and we'll give this marriage another try in a few months or so. I wouldn't have a problem.</B><P>Right. And if you would stop with the roller coaster emotions and depression, your W's outlook would improve. Your depressed periods affect her as much as you relate hers do you. So it is Catch-22...you need something to break the cycle, and maybe medication is it.<P>I think that if you were in counseling with the Harley's, he might be leaning on your W to meet some of your needs now, since your lovebank is drying up. Actually, your W probably sensed this intuitively, hence the sex and invitation back into bed. I think that if you can get your emotions under control, she will repay that with continue intimacy and your outlook will improve.<P>Nothing that is worth it comes easy...it would be nice if she would just snap her fingers and say that all the damage from the years of neglect was over, but you still have work ahead of you to achieve that, But when it does happen, it will be sincere.<P>I would talk to your doctor.<P>Mike <P><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited March 15, 2001).]

I ran into this book on the net. The whole thing is there. I think anybody who is having problems could stand to take a look: <A HREF="http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/" TARGET=_blank>http://mentalhelp.net/psyhelp/</A>

She went to California to visit her sister from Tuesday to Monday. I don't know what to expect when she gets back. I'm really enjoying the boys, though. I think I will take one day at a time and continue to grow as a person, and work on myself and stop focusing on the marriage. I need a friend. I'm tremendously lonely right now, but hey what cha going to do?

Hey Imp,<P>I know how you feel. Take this time to soul search yourself for some of the answers you need. A week is a long time to think, so try not to dwell on things. Keep doing things with your kids. Their strength and outlook on life is very encouraging. They will help you find what it is you are looking for.<P>Stay strong, you are in my prayers. I left my email address on my last post here. The offer is still open if you need to talk.<P>Griz<P>------------------<BR>Sometimes the hardest journeys in life are not the ones you embark on alone, but those that you choose to travel together.

Surprise, Surprise she came back from California as distant as she was when she left. I'm not really surprised it's exactly what I expected. The only change is that for some reason I'm not hurt or upset with the distance between us. It's almost a comfortable discomfort. I picked her up from the airport with the kids and she got off the plane and hugged the kids and looked at me and said hi. We didn't talk much or at all for that matter. I got her bags and we went to the car. We had small talk in the car about her trip, she asked how my week was with the boys. So when she got in the house she went right to the phone, and walked into the other room and talked so I grabbed my bible and left. I went and had a few cups of coffee, and read my bible. When I came home a couple hours later she seemed a little upset that I didn't say goodbye, or tell her I was leaving. Well maybe I'm wrong but you know what I don't feel a connection to her at all. I don't feel compelled to tell her anything unless it's related to the boys or finances. I think my love bank is over drawn. I've lost that loving feeling. She lost it for me and I'm losing it for her rapidly. I guess the future is forthcoming and inevitable. She went and had a tatoo put around her bicep. Chinese letters, or those barb wire type tatoos. Obviously she likes it. Wheteher I would like it never came into the equation, because she is on the island of her. I believe it's a declaration of independence. It is totally uncharacteristic of her. In the past she would never had done something like that but, I guess it's the new her, and it's her body she can do what ever she wants with it. It's just a constant reminder of just how far gone our marriage really is. I'm losing the desire to fight for it. I'm not bitter, I'm not quitting I just don't see the point in trying to save something that she doesn't want saved. It's one thing when you feel guilty about the damage you've caused and you want to fix the marriage. Once you've done all you can do and the other person shows that she is totally pass the marriage and everything I'm doing is useless, I feel like I must disinvest my emotions from this marriage also. Every day that I stay connected and hopeful I lose a part of me. I burning a ton of energy and it's pointless. I love her but I can't afford emotionally to be in love with someone that is not in love with me. Suddenly I'm starting to warm up to her position of forsaking the marriage and let it die on the vine. Regrets. I don't know if I'll have anymore then I already have. I don't even know her anymore. I don't know the woman that would go and get something as permanent as a tatoo put on her body without talking it over with her supposed husband. I guess I am bitter. I feel totally dienfranchised. I thought the time away may help. I was praying that maybe, just maybe she would come back different then she left. I read that the plan A spouse's love bank gets depleated. Well my balance is dropping faster then I care to think about.

dcope/impulsive,<P>Maybe she's having an MLC (mid-life crisis). I think it's time for you to look into the details of those. There's a little intro to it over here: <A HREF="http://www.middleage.org/marriagecrisis.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.middleage.org/marriagecrisis.htm</A> but I'm sure you can do more and better research. <P>It's hard to focus on where to go from here. I hope you'll reconsider ... you have children, and you have a wife who is <I>temporarily</I> fogged up. If she were not meeting your needs because she had some dread disease, you would stick with her regardless. What's happening now is the disease is one where she turns against you. But it's still her, and the disease can go away. <P>Remember, gradualism is important here. What can you do to make those things that were lacking just a little better today, say 5-10% better ... an amount that might escape conscious notice? Maybe something different at the breakfast table, a better way of organizing the kids going off to school in the morning, or picking up a new customer account in your business. <P>When things are good, absence makes the heart grow fonder. When things are bad, coming home can do the opposite. Ease the transition by being exactly what she wants and needs, and no more. And don't <I>demand</I> anything from her.<P>You're not running out of love, you're running out of patience. Pray for patience, do something nice for yourself to help you have patiences, and think of your kids when you're losing patience. I believe your Bible will have things to say about patience and love. Focus on that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I read that the plan A spouse's love bank gets depleated. Well my balance is dropping faster then I care to think about.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm sorry you are so down, Dcope.<P>The one part of this you have to accept is that she will be on an emotional rollercoaster. That is a given. You can't throw your cards in every time that manifests itself, you have to look at it as an opportunity. As Harley said to me, being a loving spouse is <I>contagious</I>, just as being a cold and distant one is, as you saw at the airport.<P>Are you going to lead or follow? <P>As you related elsewhere, there was a lot of neglect on your part for many years....she was in your position....giving and giving and only being met with a Taker. I know, because I was that same person that you were, and I am also paying old bills.<P>If you are going to save the marriage, there is still a big debt to be paid from your side. Hopefully, as time goes forward she will make more lovebank deposits and help your mood...remember...it wasn't long ago that she got you back in the bed, and you got some SF.<P>I counseled with Harley last week, you might want to look up the thread I wrote. He spoke about acting in a loving manner and making it become "contagious" in a marriage. You can't take your cues from a withdrawn partner...you need to lead her back to intimacy.<P>I wonder how it would have been at the airport if you had put a solid hour of full and upbeat attention on her at the airport? Perhaps she would have quickly defrosted.<P>Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited March 20, 2001).]

Well, I feel very bad for you that things have not improved since she left and has now returned. Not much in the way of advice here, but maybe I can relate a little bit of my situation to yours?<P>While I have been trying to be a better spouse to my H (call it plan a if you wish, or self-improvement, or letting God shape me to be the person he wants me to be) my H has been telling me more things about me that are upsetting to him. We rarely have relationship talks. But the last few times we have he tells me "You have a negative attitude about life." Just the other night he told me "The reason I don't talk to you is because you don't listen to me." (These two conversations happened about a month apart.) Thing is, HE IS RIGHT! I am these things! I have fallen into some bad habits over the 17 yrs. of our married life. I recognize this and I am trying to change - but don't make light of change. It is hard work!! In another conversation my H brought up a nebulous number of "For the past 15 yrs..." I was horrified to think that he really believes that for 15 of our 17 yrs. I have used sex as a weapon to manipulate him. I very much take issue with his 15 yr. number and believe I have already taken steps to change this in the last 8 months or so, but evidently he is still feeling sore about all this and carries some resentment about it and I am responsible for a lot of it.<P>I'm finding it to be very true what has been said on this site, that when you plan a, it does create a more safe environment for the withdrawn spouse, and while you are working hard to be loving, kind, and meet their needs, it's like they now feel they can really say what's on their minds and let their feelings out and sometimes what they say hurts! My H is starting to do this.<P>People here have said to you before that, look how long you were treating her cr*ppy and wallowing in your own misery. Can you face it that maybe it is going to take equal that much time before things are a whole lot better? I am getting to that point now. My H tosses out a number like 15 yrs. and in another post Happy_Hus made a reference also to "several years" before things are much better. These are disturbing numbers but I have to face the fact that I have been selfish in my marriage for several years - I may need to live selflessly for several years now and find the strength to suck things up. It is going to be a long road especially if I don't see progress in myself or my marriage along the way. But if I am honest with myself, I can see very small changes for the positive. It is a little bit of "two steps forward and one step back" but it is still progress.<P>You have heard this before, but you really have been at this for a very short time (since mid-Feb?) especially when you compare it to how long you were miserable to her.<P>I think a lot of what your W is doing is she's trying to push your buttons. Like the tattoo. Since you say it is uncharacteristic of her to do it, I see it as kind-of her way of giving you the finger. And a lot of her behaviors to me seem to be her way of saying, "You treated me bad, now you're going to know what it feels like." Try to understand why she is doing these things rather than reacting to them.<P>I am not trying to minimize your pain. I'm really trying to be encouraging to you by saying there are other people here that are struggling in situations too where changes need to be made but they happen very very slowly.<P>Maybe you don't have the strength to keep up the plan a and it is very understandable that her attitude is wearing on you. Just think really hard before you do anything drastic. And keep praying.<P>Em<BR>

A quick point, dcope/impulsive: if you think the intrigue, guessing games, and general nuisance is bad now, remember that you have <I>kids</I> with your W, and you'll have a hard time ever being truly free of one another. I don't even have kids, and look at the kinds of things that still go on: <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002429.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum34/HTML/002429.html</A> <P>You need to make a decision whether you want to wind up living like that. Because I'll tell you, <I>it sucks</I>. <P>There are things asked of me during my marriage I would have thought <I>impossible</I> for me to swallow (something as simple as picking up a second job despite the fact that I thought we were pulling in plenty of money). Today, knowing what I know now, if I could go back in time I would crawl over broken glass to do those things. If that's what would make her happy, that's what I would do.<P>I'm not stuck on XW, because she's treated me badly enough that I've <I>had it</I> with her at this point. But she had to do an awful lot to put me emotionally in the place I am now.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>So when she got in the house she went right to the phone, and walked into the other room and talked so I grabbed my bible and left. I went and had a few cups of coffee, and read my bible. When I came home a couple hours later she seemed a little upset that I didn't say goodbye, or tell her I was leaving.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why <I>did</I> you leave, hmm? What were you trying to communicate to your wife? Were you trying to say "I can be distant too"? Or were you trying to say "I don't want to be around you if you're going to shut me out"? Or what?<P>I can think of a bunch of other messages you may have conveyed by your actions, but none are loving or respectful.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Well maybe I'm wrong but you know what I don't feel a connection to her at all. I don't feel compelled to tell her anything unless it's related to the boys or finances. I think my love bank is over drawn. I've lost that loving feeling. She lost it for me and I'm losing it for her rapidly. I guess the future is forthcoming and inevitable.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Interesting. Changes in your feelings make your choices inevitable, huh? I guess "impulsive" really <I>is</I> a good name for you.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She went and had a tatoo put around her bicep. Chinese letters, or those barb wire type tatoos. Obviously she likes it. Wheteher I would like it never came into the equation, because she is on the island of her. I believe it's a declaration of independence. It is totally uncharacteristic of her. In the past she would never had done something like that but, I guess it's the new her, and it's her body she can do what ever she wants with it. It's just a constant reminder of just how far gone our marriage really is.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your wife is testing the waters. She is trying to adjust to the idea of being independent, which is a big scary step. If all she needs to do to convince herself of her own ability to be daring and different is to get a tattoo, then be grateful.<P>And the fact is, it <I>is</I> her body. If your marriage were healthy, and you were both ecstatically in love with each other, how would you have handled it if your wife decided she wanted to get a tattoo?<P>Your wife has revealed a side of herself you never suspected. But instead of seeing this as an opportunity to learn something more about your wife, and showing your interest in her, all you can do is bemoan the fact that she <I>didn't ask your advice</I> first.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I'm losing the desire to fight for it. I'm not bitter, I'm not quitting I just don't see the point in trying to save something that she doesn't want saved. It's one thing when you feel guilty about the damage you've caused and you want to fix the marriage. Once you've done all you can do and the other person shows that she is totally pass the marriage and everything I'm doing is useless, I feel like I must disinvest my emotions from this marriage also.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First, nothing you have ever said on this forum indicates that your wife is "totally past" your marriage or that everything you're doing is useless. The facts contradict your feelings.<P>Second, you haven't done <I>near</I> everything you <I>can</I> do. Even if you've already thought of everything (which you haven't), you haven't had <I>time</I> to <I>do</I> everything.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Every day that I stay connected and hopeful I lose a part of me. I burning a ton of energy and it's pointless. I love her but I can't afford emotionally to be in love with someone that is not in love with me. Suddenly I'm starting to warm up to her position of forsaking the marriage and let it die on the vine.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're burning out. This is predictable, considering that you went directly from long-term depression to an almost manic effort to single-handedly save your marriage. That's not a sustainable approach. You need to slow down, lower your expectations, and work more on yourself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Regrets. I don't know if I'll have anymore then I already have. I don't even know her anymore. I don't know the woman that would go and get something as permanent as a tatoo put on her body without talking it over with her supposed husband. I guess I am bitter. I feel totally dienfranchised. I thought the time away may help. I was praying that maybe, just maybe she would come back different then she left. I read that the plan A spouse's love bank gets depleated. Well my balance is dropping faster then I care to think about.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There's nothing wrong with praying for a miracle, but that doesn't absolve you of the responsibility to put in your own hard work. If I didn't know first-hand how painful this kind of situation is, I would say you are displaying an astonishing lack of patience. As it is, I'll just say that your impatience is understandable, but you've got a highly unrealistic idea of the amount of time it will take to restore your marriage. You actually seem to be on the <I>fast</I> track to recovery, and all you can do is complain about how everything doesn't instanteously become perfect.<P>Regrets? You <I>will</I> have them if you act impulsively. Right now you're entering withdrawal, but acting on your feelings rather than what you know to be right is one of the very most effective ways of piling up regrets.<P>I'm sorry to be so harsh, but do you have any idea how many of us here would be jumping up and down for joy if we had the opportunities you have? Get some <I>perspective</I>, man! And then go do something nice for yourself. Even the <I>best</I> view from hell is painful as...well... hell!<P><BR>------------------<BR><I>So what's the glory in living?<BR>Doesn't anybody ever stay together any more?<BR>And if love doesn't last forever, tell me<BR>What's forever for?</I> - Rafe Van Hoy<p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited March 20, 2001).]

Thanks, Mike,GDP,SIS, and ESE<BR>I guess the general consensus is I'm over reacting, and I'm being impatient. I just don't know what else to do. The tatoo thing does bother the hell out of me, but what are you going to do? I working as hard as I've worked in years. I'm getting new accounts for my business on a daily basis. I don't run home and tell her all the positive because I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impress her. Like I'm doing it for her. I'm doing it because it's really what I do best when I'm in my right frame of mind. I love business and I'm very good at it. My relationship with my boys is better then ever, and my relationship with God is better then ever also. The only piece missing is the loving, supportive wife. I guess 4 out of 5 is not to bad. The good thing is that I'm really plugged in on my life changes. I've not deviated one iota. That is good. The problem is she hasn't moved any closer either and that is frustrating. So my goal is to maintain my work on me, while deemphasizing my efforts to repair the marriage. If she reaches out and asks for affection or Sf I will jump off a bridge to give it to her. However I can't continue to pour affection into a bottomless pit. I will not lovebust, I will not give up and move on with my life but I won't continue to subject myself to constant rejection after rejection. She wil get out of me what she puts into it also. Here is my problem. Everyone keeps saying look how long you treated her like that. Well I was wrong! When does 2 wrongs make a right. So when do I get retribution? Will it be my turn to treat her like crap again next? Not for real but that's the line of logic this arguement that you provoked this type of treatment with your actions in the past. I will maintain my focus on my changes but I can't shower her with affection if she not asking for it, or initiating it. Am I wrong for feeling this way?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B> I'm getting new accounts for my business on a daily basis.</B><P>Just in general, what sort of business are you in?<P>How do you treat those prospects when you are wooing them to be customers?<P><B>I don't run home and tell her all the positive because I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impress her.</B><P>Just a guess, but probably the best way to score points here is to regularly work on paying down any debt you may have, and make sure she knows it. That is an impoortant way to meet FS when things are tough.<P><B>However I can't continue to pour affection into a bottomless pit. I will not lovebust, I will not give up and move on with my life but I won't continue to subject myself to constant rejection after rejection.</B><P>Who said affection was one of her ENs? If she is withdrawn right now, affection may be a lovebuster. Affection is YOUR EN. By forcing it on her, your Taker is right in her face.<P><B>Everyone keeps saying look how long you treated her like that. Well I was wrong! When does 2 wrongs make a right.</B><P>3 wrongs doesn't either. So break the cycle.<P>Get back on track. The trip broke the progress a little...see if you can connect to her again. Have you talked with her much?<P>Mike<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mike C2 (edited March 21, 2001).]

No, you are not wrong. And if she doesn't even want it, asyou already know, the affection and attentions are lovebusters.<P>You ought not be breaking your neck to impress her with your passion and loveydovey stuff. But do keep in contact with her. Tell her everything you are doing, like going out to the coffee shop. Be constantly polite and considerate. Never lovebust. Leave her a bit of room to approach you. <P>You sound much more calm in this last post than you have in a long long while. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Step back from the situation mentally and visualize the process you are in.<P>Congratulations on the progress so far. This is actually great, even with the tattoo. (Remember, there are such things as lasers in case she changes her mind in a couple of years or so.)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I working as hard as I've worked in years. I'm getting new accounts for my business on a daily basis. I don't run home and tell her all the positive because I don't want to sound like I'm trying to impress her. Like I'm doing it for her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wouldn't be afraid to share more abut what is happening at work ... if you can set up (or enhance) a college fund for the kids, it wil probably do as much to impress her as anything. <I>Trying</I> to impress her? Yoda says "There is no <I>try</I>. <I>Do</I> or <I>do not</I>."<P>

The last 2 days have been some of the most gut wrenching, painful relationship talks that we have had to date. Bottom line my perspective. We have been climbing a very steep hill with a boulder on our backs. We've finally put the boulder down and I can see the top of the hill which is happiness. I'm saying let's take a few steps together and see how easy it is without the boulder. She to scared to take even one step with me. She is starting to go down the hill by herself. I'm staying where I'm at yelling down to her we can do this just trust me. She comes back up the hill during relationship talks, obviously tired from walking down and then having to come all the way back up to me to talk relationship. She is saying you go up the hill by yourself. Get to the top by yourself and MAYBE one day I'll meet you up there. The hard part for me is letting go. Seeing so clearly that we can be happy if she allows her self to just take a few steps and see that we have lightened our load tremendously and we are so close to the top. <BR>Her perspective She is like the little old lady that has listened to the telemarketer tell her that she has won a million dollars. The old lady has sent in $1,000.00 several times hoping to get the million dollars, because the telemarketer which is me is just so good at getting people to believe him, but every time the telemarketer has an excuse why the check didn't come. I'm the telemarketer saying but really I have the check in my hand. I can send it but you have to show trust by sending me more money this time too. <BR>We are at the same place we were at 2 months ago when all this started. She doesn't want to get back in the relationship. She wants us to continue getting on with our lives in the same house together. I'm dying here. The prospect that I've wasted 2 months of agony and pain and I'm at square one is suffucating. As I see it I have two choices. I can continue up the hill by myself while my neck is turned toward her watching her go the other way, or I can turn around and run up the hill by myself towards happiness without ever looking back and totally ignoring the possibilties of us ever reuniting. Maybe I'm screwy but the latter seems more doable at this point. I just don't have the energy to start from scratch. I can't focus on our marriage any longer it's way to exsausting. It takes to much emotional energy from both of us. She says that I have to get on with my life. I take that as she would rather I do the latter scenario also. Has anyone else ever had a setback of this magnitude. Have you picked up the pieces or have you given up. If I go up the hill by myself without looking back wouldn't that be the same as giving up. She says that If I get to the top maybe she will come and meet me, maybe tommorrow, maybe never. However it's important that I get there for my sake and the kids sake. I'm in desparate need of feedback right now. I have to go on with my life. The growth that I Know I made so far is I don't feel depressed or suicidal, or hopeless. I just hat ethat starting over feeling. It's ironic because I usually like starting things I used to hate finishing things. So is today the first day of the rest of my life or am I still on the same old treadmill of Plan A, Make progress, Sabatoge with Impatientce and Stupidity?