OK here is the deal. The wife got a phone call today from the job she was hoping for. It sounded real positive so most likely she will get the job tommorrow on the interview. She asked me to loan her the last $80.00 she need to buy the car she has been putting money towards for the last 2 weeks. I felt uncomfortable with her asking me to loan it because that is her way of saying this is mine, this is about me, and you can help me if you like but it's not ours it's mine. I'm feel very ambivalent about both the car and job. On one hand I'm happy for her because it's like she is making positive progress. She feels better about herself and her future. The other side of the coin is that she is doing it without me. She feels totally emancipated and draws the correlation between this good feeling and not being in the marriage. I'm sure she feels she would never had been able to buy a car, or get a job if she was still in the marriage with me. I do feel somewhat impotent because it seems as though she is moving forward without me. I love her greatly so I only want to see her happy. I'm maintaining a positive outlook because negativity is counter productive. I wish we could have made this progress together then she coud associate our marriage with progress. Well other then feeling powerless I guess everything is going fine. She doesn't see the fact that I'm working hard, and meeting our obligations while she was saving for this car. It feels like now all the pieces to her independence puzzle is coming together. She has a car. She has a good job, why does she need me? I would love for her to see her progress as a reason to give the marriage a try. Maybe somehow it won't seem so risky to her. She has a way out and doesn't feel trapped. I told her I was proud of her which I really am, but I kept the part about me be insecure to myself.

Is insecure a normal feeling while in Plan A?

My sex drive seems to have went out the window. Have not even had the urge. Am I ok?

Ask your minister if you should loan her the money. If he says no, you have backup.

I've already loaned her the money. i don't have a problem helping her, I mean she is my wife and the mother of my children. She was by my side for years and I took her for granted. Now she is trying to move forward and better herself I want the help her do that. In being truthful i wish we were doing things and moving forward together but there is nothing I can do about that now. She feels a need to do things that make her feel good about herself, and I can understand because for so long she did not feel good about herself or our marriage. I understand where she is coming from. She deserves happiness. I want her to understand that she can be happy in the marriage but she doesn't have faith in that, so what can I do? Wanting someone do do bad because they are not with you is not love. I do love her and with or without me I want her to be happy, and prosperous.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>My sex drive seems to have went out the window. Have not even had the urge. Am I ok? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're fine...sex drive is tied to stress and self esteem and confidence and depression and a lot of things that take a beating during marital problems. I've had a plunge on that front lately myself.<P>On the bright side, the lack of a drive may stop you pressuring your W.<P>Impy, maybe this is a good time for a review. If you look back over the past few months, what was effective and forwarded your Plan A, and what missteps hurt your progress? <P>This is not over by any means, and it is important to review and learn from your experiences.<P>PS: I think it would have been a disaster to not loan her $80.....she would have gotten it somewhere, and she would have resented you forever for trying to keep her in handcuffs without transportation. Somewhere there is a pithy saying about if you love someone let them go, if they return, something, something....you may need to think about that a little. <P>Hang in there. I would like to see a post from you on the things that worked and the things that didn't.

This is my first time writing to any internet discussion group. I am 42, a teacher, 3 kids, married 11 years yesterday. My husband shows me no attention, affection, romance, intimacy. I am going crazy. We have had sex twice in 5 months. I even jumped into the shower with him and all he wanted to do was shampoo his hair and then go clean the pool tile at 9:30 at night. I am starving for his affection and want sex from him. I have no interest in looking elsewhere for it. I planned a surprise night out, and nothing happened, except he held my hand for 5 minutes and gave me a long hug this morning. I have said for a year that we need to "date", spend time alone together, have more sex, etc. He does not do it. I have ruled out another woman. He has always put the kids first and I have told him he is wrong for doing that. Help me, help me, help me. I just want to yell in his face...Hello, I am your wife...bed me! What should I say to him ? Last night the kids were gone and he went right to sleep during Jay Leno. I was awake and ready to go. I have told him I hate the tv. All he wants to do is watch it. Somebody respond to me. I am going crazy about this. Even his brother does not understand this.

It is possible for an INFJ who has been pushed over the edge to try to strain a relationship in order to kill it. That can be a specific goal. Although it would sound to me that since she is not experiencing conflict at the moment she will be less driven to kill it right now so trust me, you are doing the right thing by backing down. Cause her more heartache and you will lose her at this point. So the question for you to ask yourself is, “How determined am I to knuckle down myself and make this work?”<P>To answer these questions TO YOURSELF honestly – you need to be in a place where you are REALLY thinking about the best interests of your wife.<P>What caused the unfaithfulness to begin with and what makes you so sure that you will not fall short again? Your wife is now, from the sound of things near her thirties. If she gives this relationship another chance, how can you be sure you will not fall short again? If you love her you will REALLY think about this one long and hard. You won’t want to see her trying to start again at 40 after you’ve had a few more affairs.<P>Chances are that when you met your wife she was a sweet but slightly determined young thing. You admired her mind – you loved her smile, her laugh, her unusual sense of humour (no?) possibly you were flattered that in her discernment she chose you, out of a fair few others that were keen to spend a bit of time with her. But the fact is – you most likely won her too easy – and then lost interest because you didn’t like it much when she got down to worrying about the realities of everyday life.<P>Just guessing here.<P>And now that you are not feeling certain of her you are remembering all that you enjoyed before. There’s a slim chance that you even find her a little more appealing now simply because of the challenge she presents at the moment.<P>Just make sure it’s not the challenge she presents now – but the fact that you really do love her that is driving you now.<P>Make sure that you tell her that you love her, and that you are sorry for the way things are now often. <P>But what will get her attention the most is you getting on with your life. Again, the book on emotional intelligence is excellent. <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553375067/o/qid=990661153/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/104-7518235-9792757" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553375067/o/qid=990661153 /sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/104-7518235-9792757</A> I would like to know if you do look into this book. Or if you intend to. (As an ESTP you’ll be a little uncomfortable with that question. (no?)<P>Essentially it’s message is about delayed gratification, and how having control over natural emotional impulses (it helps show the reader how to do this) can help a person get where they want to be in life. It will certainly help you through this uncertain time in your life.<P>This is not a win at all costs situation here – this is the life of someone you love and have hurt deeply. Make sure you let her know that you are happy that she found a job. Be honest and tell her it scares you and the reiterate that you want her to be happy so you are trying to just deal with your feelings.<P>One of the things that matters greatly to an INFJ is emotional HONESTY.<P>Back to getting on with your life without her.<P>As an ESTP – Routine is most likely not your strong point. That’s who you are. For your family, you may want to consider something you do routinely, like a family man. <P>You might consider a night when you are responsible for dinner and doing something with your boys – on a weekend night would be best. Don’t expect your wife to be a part of this at first – just try to do something – you and the boys.<P>The best way I can describe the way I look at life – and if your wife is the same way, she may see the same thing – is that life is like a structure, a building. Each day you add another brick, another part of the structure. A building with a goal, a plan, maybe even a blueprint that can be changed a little as you progress. But she’ll want to know where things are going.<P>Four times now she’s tried to build – and four times what she has built has been torn down.<P>It’s time for you to build – and you’ll have to build without her.<P>If you find a way to create a safe home – a family home for her you may have a chance. She still may leave. It may take a great deal of time. But the only chance you have is by working on yourself. You will definitely have to win her again – no doubt about that – and it will not be easy.<P>Take it one day at a time and concentrate on your family (you and the boys).<P>Give the idea of a family night once a week for you and your sons a thought. All the better if you cook that one night a week.<p>[This message has been edited by Louise_INFJ (edited May 27, 2001).]

My imprseesion was that infidelity has been involved here - is that correct?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louise_INFJ:<BR><B>My imprseesion was that infidelity has been involved here - is that correct?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not confirmed or even heavily suspected by Imp, Louise. <P>I like your posts.<P>

I think Louise meant <I>his</I> infidelity. And I think he was just randy behavior without ever crossing the line into infidelity (bachelor party type stuff). I guess some women would see that is infidelity.

Impulsive: the kid card. If she is as loyal as Louise states, how can she do this to her kids? Your posts never mention this (or I have missed it).

Impulsive: the kid card. If she is as loyal as Louise states, how can she do this to her kids? Your posts never mention this (or I have missed it).

As far as infidelity, I did some stupid things that betrayed trust but never a affair physical or emotional. Twice I had internet conversations of a sexual nature that was purely based on boredom and the thrill of anonymity. She took it as though I might as well been physical. My wife is at the point where she just doesn't have the energy to go forward because of my baggage. I could be Prince Charming on a white horse and it just won't matter. However if I were a stranger and not the father of her children and the legal husband on paper I might be looked at as quite the catch. I've noticed that she has become quite cynical, and jaded. She went from teh most trusting person on the planet to not trusting anyone, and that's because I betrayed her trust. The one issue that I can't shake is that while i was in my fog she talked of leaving and I said all the things I'm saying now to get another opportunity. Before I said it but didn't mean it so now she saying you had your last chance and you blew it.

Then I must admit that I'm a little lost. Still, the healthiest thing to do might be to get into a one night a week routine of being with your boys. It could be good for you and it will definitely be good for them. Find a way to keep putting one foot before the other. <P>She’s clearly working through some issues – I doubt that very much that you can say at the moment will help – just continue to tell her you love her and find things that help you continue to put one foot before the other. It is hard to get through a time of uncertainty like this. <P>I don't understand fully why this situation exists - so it is possibly best that I not comment any further until I do.

What do you mean when you say that you betrayed her trust? Was this something in a business sense?

Sorry<p>[This message has been edited by Louise_INFJ (edited May 28, 2001).]

There was a series of incidences that betrayed the trust my wife had in me. The first was about 4 years ago. I had a stag party at our brand new home while she was at work. The boys got restless and strippers did more then strip and my wife came home to find used condoms and such in the garbage. She felt totally betrayed and disrespected and I can't say i blame her. My defense was I didn't have sex with anyone but I didn't have enough respect for my brand new home or my 8 month pregnant wife to not do what I did.<BR>We had to move from that house because it was to much for her. Second was a internet relationship I developed with a chick from New Zealand. I sent a email of a sexual nature that my wife intercepted. She was devestated. Then I allowed my grandfather that was suffering from Alzhiermer's to come live with us because he was in a abusive situation. He reguired around the clock care. Since she was a stay at home mom, I kind of leveraged her through guilt to get her to take care of him while he was very abusive to my wife and kids verbally. I minimized it because of his illness she took it very seriously. While this is happening my business was going down hill, I stop meeting her financial security needs and let my physical attractiveness go down the drain. This was around the time where I was forsaking 9 out of her 10 emotional needs. While I was beating her in the head with my taker. I had her convinced that life was so bad beacuse she was not sexual enough. This situation went on for about two to three years. She was miserable. I ws not attentive to the kids like I should have been. I was not supportive to my wife needs I was a terrible husband. Throughout this all she asked to leave three times. I never took her serious. But i said things to convince her that I would change. She trusted me and believed me every time. I never changed. So now when i say I'll change she says I know but I trusted and tried and i can't anymore. She says she just don't have it in her anymore. I'm the boy that cried wolf. All though she believes my changes she still think they may be temporary. There has been a pattern of neglect. She thinks I 'm just the type of person that doesn't learn until it's to late. Now she just wants me to be her friend and raise our kids together and she has no interst in sex or relationship or trying to save out marriage.

Help! I'm growing increasingly impatient. Can it be that no amoount of change on my part will turn my wife around to give me another opportunity? She does not know how to forgive. I can see her conflicted but she does not know how to try again. She won't seek counciling. She won't read any books. All she keeps saying is she is not ready and don't think she will ever be ready. I keep telling her that she will never be ready if all she has to go by is the past. If I back off entirely I would be giving up right? I am focusing alot of time and enrgy in the relationship I have with my kids, but i feel somewhat conflicted with that also. The closer we get, the harder it will be for them to handle a subsequent divorce or official separation. I almost feel like I fattening them up for the slaughter. I can't get her past the negative aspects of our past. So I'm going to spend the next couple of weeks focusing away from her, and our situation. It's difficult because it feels like I'm neglecting the marriage again when i do that.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Help! I'm growing increasingly impatient. Can it be that no amoount of change on my part will turn my wife around to give me another opportunity?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's right, impulsive. No amount of change on your part will turn your wife around. She has to turn around herself. The matter is out of your hands.<P>That doesn't mean that your changes are wasted. For one thing, they are a necessary precondition for the restoration of your marriage. For another, being a better person provides its own reward in how you feel about yourself.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She does not know how to forgive. I can see her conflicted but she does not know how to try again. She won't seek counciling. She won't read any books. All she keeps saying is she is not ready and don't think she will ever be ready. I keep telling her that she will never be ready if all she has to go by is the past.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>But, impulsive, you are now adding to the "past". You are providing good memories to counterbalance the bad memories. The longer your wife stays conflicted (assuming you stick with the "new" you), the more the weight of the past should come down on the side of staying with the marriage.<P>In the meantime, it really isn't fair for you to expect her to forget the past. Sure, you would both benefit if she could let go of her pain. But it just isn't that easy, and she will need to find her own way. Books and counseling only help when one is ready to change.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>If I back off entirely I would be giving up right?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What do you mean by backing off? You can back off your expectations without changing your behavior.<P>My wife and I have not spoken in more than ten months. Except for a number of occasions when we have passed in the street, I have only seen her at the courthouse. But I haven't given up. I can do little more than pray, but I haven't given up.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I am focusing alot of time and enrgy in the relationship I have with my kids, but i feel somewhat conflicted with that also. The closer we get, the harder it will be for them to handle a subsequent divorce or official separation. I almost feel like I fattening them up for the slaughter.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is another indication that you are still assuming responsibility for your wife's choices. Building a good relationship with your kids is not only a good, positive thing; it's also your responsibility as a parent. If your wife acts to hurt them, that is <I>her</I> choice, for which she alone is responsible. For you to evade <I>your</I> responsibility because your wife <I>might</I> do something hurtful makes no sense at all.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I can't get her past the negative aspects of our past. So I'm going to spend the next couple of weeks focusing away from her, and our situation. It's difficult because it feels like I'm neglecting the marriage again when i do that.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Right now, it doesn't sound like you have much of a marriage to neglect. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't take the opportunity to meet your wife's needs. But you need to <I>spread</I> your focus. You're already doing that with your kids. That's great of itself, and frankly may contributing to your wife's needs also. Just don't neglect your <I>own</I> needs.<P>Really, it's "just" a matter of balance. A very tricky balance, of course, but I really believe that with an appropriate mindset your situation is quite sustainable.<BR>