Things are very weird. It seems to be in a very twlight zone like holding pattern. I'm scared out of my mind to do anything that may set us back into the negative zone. I scared to ask for SF, I'm scared to talk relationship. I'm just scared. How long can things stay like this? Is time still on my side?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I'm scared out of my mind to do anything that may set us back into the negative zone.</B><P>Good!<P><B>I scared to ask for SF,</B><P>Good!<P><B>I'm scared to talk relationship.</B><P>Good!<P>This is healthy, Darwinian, survival fear. Harness it and use it. Go one month without initiating relationship talks or pressing your needs on her. See what happens.<P>If she launches into a relationship discussion, LISTEN...don't react. Hear her out. Repeat back what she is saying so she knows you are listening. DON'T ask her for her feelings about the future. You won't like the answer right now, and making her say it will only reinforce it in her mind.<P>Unfortunately, you have trained her over the last few months that any positive cracks in her armor unleash a wave of demands about your needs and questions about the future and her feelings that she can't/doesn't want to address. When she treats you like crap, none of that happens, you don't cross her boundaries, and she is comfortable.<P>You have to show her that she can drop her guard and you will still respect her boundaries.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Things are very weird. It seems to be in a very twlight zone like holding pattern. I'm scared out of my mind to do anything that may set us back into the negative zone. I scared to ask for SF, I'm scared to talk relationship. I'm just scared. How long can things stay like this? Is time still on my side?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Keep playing Boy Scout, stay relaxed and open, do unexpectedly nice things without expecting anything in return, go to dinner and to see a family movie as a family. Practice tranquility and acceptance, but keep your eyes open for ways to gain that next step ... not because <I>you</I> just want it, but because it's time to take it.<BR>

Duplicate Post.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 10, 2001).]

And another duplicate post ... this board was acting up yesterday ... not confirming posts.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 10, 2001).]

Things have taken that expected setback. The wife seems intent on trying to hurt me and I'm tired of being hurt. I don't want to talk relationship because I have reached a point where I really don't care anymore. My wife has become a person I don't even like as a person anymore. She is disrespectful, and rude, and stays out all hours of the night drinking and comes home and gets in the bed smelling like a liqour bottle. She swears without remorse and it's such a turn off. I tried and the next time she initiates a relationship talk I will tell her whatever she wants to do God Bless her. She said that she wants to move out in a month or so. I said O.K. I've reached a point where the pain I'm enduring is not worth the journey anymore. I'm a better person. I'm a better father. I pray for her daily and wish her nothing but happiness. I won't ask her to leave but I won't respond to her disrespect and demands for my attention anymore. She seems happy as long as I'm engaged and suffering. My suffering days are over and my days of considering the hope of reconcilliation is over also.

<A HREF="http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/</A>

Bumping this thread to the top. It's a week later. What's new?

Things are better actually a lot better. We seem to be getting closer as long as we don't talk about it or make mention that we are working things out. It's like a reconciliation by default. We have hade several SF sessions and no arguing at all so considering where we were I guess we are doing great. He grandmother is staying with us for a couple of weeks so I'm on my best behavior.

Be granny's favorite son-in-law, but don't let her <I>linger</I> too long....<P>On second thought, I bet your wife's drinking drops dramatically when her mother's in the house! Who knows, maybe wifey will get out of the habit!<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 23, 2001).]

Well the wife and I had a relationship talk for the first time in a long time. I said that it seems to me that she is dependinng on me more and more finacially. I told her that I don't have a problem with that but that it seems that she has a one track mind. HER AGENDA. Evreything is still her needs and her wants. My needs don't even enter into the picture. She said that she was there for my needs for years. Now all of a sudden I've changed and I want her to throw out the past. She said that she can't do anything about her feelings towards the marriage and that it's impossible to please me. She said that when she is independent I complain that she is leaving me out. When she needs me I complain that my needs are noot being met. Wwe are in a better financial situation now but the problem is that I generate alll the income. She wants to take off and do her own thinng but she can't afford to. It's like the only reason she is still here is because she can't afford to leave. How do I get her to fall back in love with me? She says that she only has sex because I want to. She doesn't feel that spark. That loving feeling.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>She said that she can't do anything about her feelings towards the marriage and that it's impossible to please me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She's right about her inability to change her feelings. All she can do is change her behavior and possibly her attitude.<P>Does she understand that it isn't her responsibility to please you? It's not, you know. She is only responsible for what she <I>does</I>.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>It's like the only reason she is still here is because she can't afford to leave. How do I get her to fall back in love with me? She says that she only has sex because I want to. She doesn't feel that spark. That loving feeling.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wouldn't take her too seriously when she says she only has sex because <I>you</I> want to. She may well want to too, but she doesn't want to admit it to herself. But be very careful not to be demanding in that department.<P>As far as "getting her" to fall in love with you, you can't do that. You <I>can</I> keep up with Plan A and see what happens. I still think your chances are good. And it would be nice if at some point you could get her into counseling.<BR>

<BR>Hi Impy,<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>Well the wife and I had a relationship talk for the first time in a long time. I said that it seems to me that she is dependinng on me more and more finacially.</B><P>I think that FS is such a major issue with you guys that I would try to focus on accenting the positive rather than ratcheting up the tension by tossing blame on her. She wants a provider. Focus on being that.<P><B>Evreything is still her needs and her wants. My needs don't even enter into the picture. She said that she was there for my needs for years.</B><P>Yep. Your Taker burned her love out and it is a long road back. Everytime you bring up your needs, it throws her back to that mindset. You say that your needs don't enter into the picture, but she is giving you SF, right? And that isn't for her needs, she says. So you may not like hearing about her lack of desire, but you have to recognize that the SF she does give is in order to meet your needs. When you ignore that and say "my needs don't even enter into the picture" rather than saying "thank you for Sf for my needs even though you don't feel the need yourself" you just make her remember how your needs were a bottomless pit for her for so many years. She probably feels that it is impossible to please you.<P><B>She said that she can't do anything about her feelings towards the marriage and that it's impossible to please me.</B><P>I knew it! <P>Think of where the "pressure points" are where she feels burdened by your needs (SF?) and see what you can do to impress her by backing off. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>She doesn't feel that spark. That loving feeling. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm surprised she feels <I>anything</I> after all that drinking. <P>

GDP, Mike, SIS,<BR>You are all right. I think I need to spend more time thinking about the positive. The fact that she is still there is a positive and the fact that I have recieved some SF is a positive, but I've been caught up on the fact that it's only when I ask or intiate aand it's never at her prompting. FS is so important to her that it's scary. Ii will focus on being the ultimate provider. Why do I have things feelings like when everything is all better she will be happy again is like a fair wheather friend?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>The fact that she is still there is a positive and the fact that I have recieved some SF is a positive, but I've been caught up on the fact that it's only when I ask or intiate aand it's never at her prompting.</B><P>Yeah, well, baby steps. Her desire will return when her love returns, and that won't happen until you stop pressuring her on your needs. It is a viscious circle, huh?<P><B> FS is so important to her that it's scary. Ii will focus on being the ultimate provider. Why do I have things feelings like when everything is all better she will be happy again is like a fair wheather friend?</B><P>Seen from a different perspective, she is still there when others might have left, so that is a pretty good friend, huh?<BR>

Well Grandma is still with us and I don't mind in the least bit. The problem is that there is absolutely no intimacy between us at all. I pay the bills and handle all my husbandly and fatherly responsibilties but as for us getting any closer.. ZIP, Nothing, NADA. I'm lonely and I feel like giving up. I wake up every morning and go to morning prayer. I leave prayer and go to the park to jog. I leave the park come home shower, and go to work. I come home from work and try to do something fun with the kids, Park, beach or baseball game. I come home she says HI, and goodnight and we have no contact or conversation other then what bills are due and how much money she needs. I don't complain. I don't come across annoyed because that does not help matters. In fact I spend alot of time coming across as positive as possible. It's just getting pretty old at this point. 6 months later and saga continues. I'm convinced that she does not want to be married to me. She wants to be independent. However she can't afford to be independent so in the mean time she just stays in the same house while I maintain and make financial progress. It's a real empty feeling. Yes she is still here but only because she can't afford to leave. No contact, very little if any interaction is wwworse in some ways the her leaving. I think.

My question would be: Is Grandma's presence keeping her <I>sober</I>? And if she <I>is</I> sober, how is she coping with that? <P>If her lifestyle is being altered, and you are able to maintain a positive attitude and interaction, her attitudes may start to change as well. It's not really easy for anyone to know that without more description from you, but whatever keeps her away from <I>Ms. Bad News</I> is certainly good (unless Grandma herself is <I>bad news</I>, which I doubt ... you don't get that old being bad news). <P>Why not try a little test. Think of her favorite romantic restaurant. Ask her: "If Grandma watches the kids, do you think we could go out to dinner?" If she has been denied such outlets for a while, you may be able to get her to do that. After that, you're on your own to work your own magic, if you still can.

Gramma is leaving in a few days and she has been sober since she has been here. The problem is this... The wife is totally content living day in and day out in the limbo position we have been in for so long now. I've reached the end of my rope and I asked her the other morning what are you going to to do? Are we going to save our marriage or let it go? She said she'll think about it. I've haven't asked again because I'm tired. I'm emotionally drained. I told her today that I can no longer live this way. I need a partner in life. A friend. Someone to confide in, someone to talk to, cry with, laugh with, and have fun pursuing common goals. Giving our children the type of life they deserve. I told her that I can't hear one more time how much the past affects her because I can't do anything about the past. She won't get consuling or try to repair the damage so sitting here crying about last year and earlier is a waste of time. She listened and didn't respond because I had to get Gramma off to dialysis. But on one hand had she said she would think about saving our marriage a few months ago I would have thrown a huge bash. Now I'm not as excited because I've been struggling through life alone while she enjoys all the benefits of being married to me with out any of the responsibilities.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by impulsive:<BR><B>I told her that I can't hear one more time how much the past affects her because I can't do anything about the past. She won't get consuling or try to repair the damage so sitting here crying about last year and earlier is a waste of time.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Says you. She needs to do it to process her feelings, and you need to mirror those thoughts back in order for her to understand that she has been understood. She needs to know there will be no repeat. She needs to know that you will continue to do what you can to repair it. <P>And the fact that the damage you've done has made her less of a good person than she in fact could have been (or could be now) should give you pause, not make you throw in the towel when victory has come into view. <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> ... had she said she would think about saving our marriage a few months ago I would have thrown a huge bash. Now I'm not as excited because I've been struggling through life alone while she enjoys all the benefits of being married to me with out any of the responsibilities. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You should be happy with what you have done. Exhausted, yes; wanting to never go through that again, yes. But happy nonetheless. I'm sure she didn't shuck <I>all</I> her responsibilities, but those she did shuck ... were because of damage <I>you</I> created. If you've kicked the <I>hell</I> out of somebody, could they be expected to carry your suitcases, even assuming they were still willing? <P>She <I>is</I> getting counseling already, in the form of your daily example. It has led her to where she is now. Keep it up, be ready for the occasional setback, and keep coming here for the support you need (along with the occasional kick in the behind). <P>Remember, when you rebuild a wrecked city, it almost always comes out <I>better</I>--there are opportunities amidst the rubble.