DJ,<p>Where are you? Haven't seen you posting, and I'm sure many here like myself are concerned. Stay in touch to help keep you strong. Please let us know how you are doing. You are missed...

Hi! A big thanks again to everyone for the concern, encouragement and tremendous words of wisdom!! And, a special thanks to Want2FixIt, for sharing a MM's perspective. Everyone has made points I'd like to comment on, but due to a lack of time right now, I need to be quick. Things have been hectic. My Mom has been hospitalized, so I've been running alot.<p>Reading these replies, I see that each of you have made points that are so true.....it is almost like you can see the real him, while I've been so blind (or maybe stupid). Well, the rose-colored glasses have come off and I'm finally seeing the real him, too. (I don't like what I see, but it is obvious.)<p>Anyway, I found an email from him "telling" me that he may get a chance to visit tomorrow....not asking if I'd be free, or what my plans are...but TELLING me, more or less, to be available, at his convenience, just in case he can visit. (That is the way it usually was, but this time it just rubbed me the wrong way!).<p>It sounded so SELFISH. He WANTS me, so I must be free (leave work early, change plans, whatever it takes to be available). It was all about HIS wants, not mine. He mentioned having a sore back from a weekend home construction project and would like a backrub also. There was no mention of what is happening (if anything) with OW4.<p>MaryRN and Zorweb, your addiction analogy was right on the mark. Yes, withdrawal is indeed painful and difficult. It will be hard to fight, but I must. I still want him more than ever, but know I have to do the right thing.....for me!<p>Love is a two-way street, as Juststartingover said. This street definitely focuses only on HIM. But, I guess I'm to blame for that (at least partially), I've probably spoiled him. Nothing seems to be a two-way street with him...not even his marriage. From the contact I've had with his wife, she does seem to be a fairly nice person. Want2FixIt made me realize that it is possible that HE turned her into the cold, uncaring person that he claims she is. (Constantly being suspicious of OW [as she seems to be] would have to be very difficult to deal with. She's done it for a long time, it seems.)<p>If OW4 refuses and he is hurt in the process...well, that's life. I can almost bet that he has left a trail of broken hearts in his path. I think I've inflated his ego enough the past 2+ years.<p>Yes, he "loves" his family and provides for them (and that will never change), but apparently that just isn't enough for him....he still wants more...and keeps seeking out the attention and affection of women.<p>Maybe it makes him feel superior by his ability to conquer unsuspecting women and make them fall into his trap! (and even make them fall in love with him.)<p>He's quite an athletic guy, so maybe each woman is just another "game" to him....he calls the shots, he is in control and he wins by moving on to another when he is ready.<p>Well, I've decided to let him visit so I can tell him in person that I'm "letting him go". (Mary, I think that terminology would work better too.) I can't email him, since I know that it is being monitored by his wife, and I don't want her reading it. She's been through enough with the suspicion alone.<p>I guess it is time to dive into the water, as ILMF suggested, and do what I have to do. Wish me luck! I hope I can do this! I'll keep you posted soon....

dj,<p>i am so thrilled to hear the kind of strength coming from you this evening. i know i am not the only one who will be waiting to congratulate you when you cut this guy loose. show him what you're really make of....remember he is going to try and play you. i wish you were giving him a no contact letter so that you couldn't be swayed by him....but you sound really good....and i believe you can do this. all the best of luck to you!!!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I definitely need to put a closure on this "relationship" and begin healing. In spite of what he is, I want him in my life so bad...and that is not right. I DO deserve better!!!!! <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, you do. I just wanted to stop back in and see how you were doing. This sentence reminds me of friends I have that really want crack in their lives (not making this up). They want it really badly, but we all know that it is not good for them. We always seem to want what is the least good for us. How many of us sit around craving a rice cake? How about pizza? See?<p>If you allow yourself to cave, you will be setting yourself up for this again. He is not going to change his ways, and he doesn't even sound sorry for them. You don't deserve this the first time, let alone repeatedly.<p>Good for you for seeing his selfishness in his email. You wanted to know where the anger was? Sounds like it may be on it's way. Good for you for recognizing your needs. You've come a long way, and you can go farther. It doesn't feel like it at times (I'm in that situation, different circumstances, though.) It's hard to believe in yourself, but you are on your way. <p>You are partially responsible, yes, as you have allowed him to be this way with you. You don't have to continue being partially responsible. Just because we allow someone to do something doesn't mean it it is right for them to do it. Keep it in mind, and keep YOURSELF and YOUR needs in mind. <p>It doesn't matter whether you want 9 kids or 0. You still deserve to be the one and only light in someone's life. You deserve fidelity for your kindness and patience. Remember what YOU deserve and are worthy of.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by djmusicbox:
<strong>I still want him more than ever, but know I have to do the right thing.....for me!<p>Well, I've decided to let him visit so I can tell him in person that I'm "letting him go".</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I think that given the strong feelings you still have for him, letting him come and see you is a very very risky proposition. The chances of you slipping right back into it are extremely high.<p>You say you can't send him an e-mail... OK, why not leave an envelope at your door when he comes, with a nice succinct no-contact letter? Face to face contact at this point will, most likely, lead to body to body contact... (OK, bad pun, sorry).<p>AGG

i agree dj...think about it....and takola has made some excellent points.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You say you can't send him an e-mail... OK, why not leave an envelope at your door when he comes, with a nice succinct no-contact letter? Face to face contact at this point will, most likely, lead to body to body contact... (OK, bad pun, sorry). <hr></blockquote><p>I agree with oxymoron, I mean...AGoodGuy... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] If you see him face-to-face he will turn on the charm you have been talking about. I won't say don't do it, but make sure you are strong enough, first. Remember: DJ is #1, not MM.

Hi DJMB,
Please DON'T see him face-to-face unless it is in a restaurant and you don't allow him to touch you, even so much as to hold your hand. I'm hypoglycaemic, so I have a lot of empathy here. I go through dreadful cycles where I CRAVE carbs, preferably sweet one, and if I give in and eat even one cookie I've had it! Problem is I have an allergic addiction to sugar. That one cookie will lead to a huge binge, and I will end up with a 3-day cluster headache and gooey ears for a week. This knowledge does not stop me once I've bought the cookies or the chocolate bar!<p>I know this, and I have to be firm. It means eating sensibly all the time, because if I slip and let my metabolism get out of whack, I start getting munchies. <p>The moral? If you see him, your hypoglycaemia will kick in and you're going to have a monster craving and probably binge. <p>Besides, if you say goodbye to him in person, and in private, he's bound to want sex just one more time as a special memory to treasure. And that will hurt you even more, because however good it is at the time, you will remember with loathing how you let yourself down.<p>Hang in, you can do this! I like the idea of a note on your door, with you in some place you cannot get out of to run home and say you changed your mind. Could you invite a (female) coworker for coffee at that time?

DJMB,<p>Sorry to hear about your Mom. I hope it isn't life threatening and that she's ok. <p>I'm glad to see you are starting to see how selfish HE really is. Your eyes are being opened every day, and with this knowledge it will give you strength. We are all pulling for you to get through this, so get that "let him go" speech and letter written [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Be prepared for the spoiled man in him to do everything in his power to try and stop you. You have been fulfilling HIS needs, and he's going to want to continue USING you. But I know you can be strong.<p>Go do the right thing! Come back here for support [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hang in, DJ! Hang tough! Spend time with your mom, not this MM. I have a friend who sticks with her separation from the MM because she says "I have to keep myself clean." Think of it rather as being true to yourself than being untrue to MM. Whatever promises you made him are not valid, because they were made in a void.<p>You say very little about yourself. Are you very much a care giver? Sounds like it. Sounds like you take care of everybody except DJ. She seems to be a very nice person - spend some time getting to know and like her.

Hi dj,<p>You sound so much better today, good for you! I am sorry to hear about your mother, I hope she has a speedy recovery.<p>I had a couple thoughts for you, that may help...<p>I read this somewhere a while ago, and it really turned a light bulb on for me - we women tend to think that if we give more, are loving and sweet and giving, that the man we are with will fall in love with us or love us more. The truth is it doesn't really work that way. If the man knows he doesn't deserve this treatment, isn't as emotionally invested, committed, and giving to us, they will ENJOY it, they will bask in it and take it, it will feed his ego, but they will not appreciate it, and begin to think negitively about our worth and value, disrespect us. I mean we can't really respect someone who just gives without getting much back in return, know what I mean? Think about if you had some guy who you weren't really interested in slaving for you, waiting on your needs and desires, what would you think about this guy? And without respect, without us having boundries, having our own legitimate and reasonable requirements and expectations the guy will not, can not love us. Can you see what I am getting at here?<p>I also agree that you should not see your MM in person. In fact I don't think you need to tell him in any way it is over. I think he MADE it over by ditching you and running after this other OW, by blowing you off for what? a month now with no contact. I understand your desire to talk to him, but I think it is very dangerous. He WANTS you on his string, and as he sees you trying to pull away he will pull out all the charm and persuasion and pretty words and at this point you are still very vulnerable. In my mind I would consider his actions, regarding this other OW, and his blowing me off as HIS break up, a reasonable person would realize the consiquences of doing this to you. He doesn't need or deserve any explaination, and you don't either. I think just consider yourself broke up with him and cut off all contact, he'll eventually get the message.<p>But definately do not meet him face to face, dj, whatever you do. I am afraid you will just put yourself back in the turmoil, when you have made so much progress in seperating emotionally and accepting the truth. It is a very real danger that you would get right back where you were, and later have to go through all this trauma again. Don't take those steps back dj, you are doing so well, and getting stronger.<p>Best to you, keep us posted.<p>Juanita

Hi DJ,
I have to agree with everyone, face to face is VERY dangerous. I tried to leave MM several times, but everytime I saw that smile and that bald head (too sexy for me!!!) I would turn to Jello. And was right back in his arms, cause I felt I belonged there.
If you cannot send him an email, the letter on the door is excellent. You have to end it one way or another, and I do not think you are strong enough yet to do it face to face (trust me, as you know I have been there).But I can hear the strength in you everyday.
When you have more time ( sorry to hear about Mom, hope she is doing better)go back and read your posts fro the beginning. You can hear the strength in your letters with each one.You will have set backs, you will cry, but allow yourself those tears. Something that helped me in the dark days in the beginning of the end ( or was it the beginning of the beginning ? Think about it...) was to set the timer on the stove when I was alone(for 30 mins or more) and just cry.Do not deny the tears.Bizarre, but helpful...try it.
Please get back to all of us, you know we all care, you know we are all pulling for you. I just wish we could sit, have coffee and I could personally tell you have great I feel after 4 months.And I was where you are today, honest!<p>Be good, hug your mother..... Mary

DJ,<p>Please please please do NOT see him in person!! Leave the note as suggested and avoid all contact after he recives the letter you leave him.<p>Now you know he has told you that he doesnt love you. But you can bet your bottom dollar that those words will be uttered from his mouth as a means to try to keep you there. Dont believe it for a second. He loves his CONTROL over YOU, having you be his puppet on a string, there to USE as he pleases, when he pleases. To keep that control, he is going to say many things, tug on each and every one of those heart strings and push all the right buttons. Being in his physical presence is really NOT a good idea!!<p>Also, dont be surprised if he thinks your idea to end it is because he was going to move on to OW4. And expect the, but nothing happened with her, and you mean so much to me. Please dont leave me, I need you. WHATEVER!!! As I stated before, nobody means anything to him other then himself. Not you, not his wife, or the other trail of broken and crushed hearts and hopes this man has left behind. <p>Stay strong and come back here to us!! You know were all supporting you!!!!!<p>((((((((((DJ))))))))))))<p>Ann [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

DJ,<p>Where are you ? It has been two days since we heard from you. We are all worried. If you have fallen that is okay, as there are enough of us here to pick you back up.
Please let us know how you are doing.<p>Mary

DJ, please check in. I'm worried. Is your mom okay?

DJ - We all are pulling for you so don't stay away too long. There are many wise and caring people here that understand your struggle. You are missed...

Hi everyone! Yes, I'm still around. My Mom is home now, doing much better. She had a bout with pneumonia (she's 81, so it was scary). Thank you everyone for your concern, I really appreciate it and it means alot to me. I've just been busy getting things taken care of for her, and haven't been online much.<p>As for me, the night he was supposed to visit, I was all ready to tell him it is over.....but, he didn't come. I'm used to that, too....the family needs him and he can't make it, so I just sit and wait...and wait....finally when it gets late enough, I realize he isn't coming.<p>He called me the next day asking a favor....a long time ago, he told me he planned to give his wife a surprise birthday party for her 40th birthday in June. Being nice, I offered to help, since he didn't have any sisters in the area. Well, he reminded me of my offer and needed some party advice. Of course, I made a few phone calls for him to help out. Why do I do that????<p>The next day was a hectic one at work. I also had some family issues to deal with and personal business. It was a nightmare day, to say the least. When I got home, there he was!!!! All of that anger I had for him flew right out the window. He caught me in a weak moment and I needed him so bad. He always made me smile and made all of the my problems disappear. I am so ashamed and sorry...I disappointed all of you plus myself. I couldn't say anything I wanted to say. <p>Today was the clincher, though. I had some information on a hall rental for him (for the party) and wanted to drop it off during his lunch. I knew where he would be so decided to take it to him, rather than call. Well, when I pulled in the parking lot, there he was.....in a car with a woman!!!!! Yes, OW4, I'd imagine! He saw me and put his head down, probably thinking I wouldn't see him, but I did.<p>It was just a knife through my heart. They weren't doing anything (at that point, anyway), just sitting there. Just seeing him in her car tore me apart. I drove away. I knew he'd call me, and sure enough, a short time later my cell phone rang. I didn't answer. When I got home, I found two messages on my answering machine also. I'm not talking to him. He knows how much this hurt me and now he can wonder what I'm going to do....<p>Everyone's advice on not seeing him was great. I wanted to tell him in person because it was something that I needed to do for myself. I could have if he came the night he was supposed to. I needed to be strong enough to look him in those darn eyes and tell him its over. <p>But maybe now I won't have to. He knows I'm upset and hurt. I am going to avoid his calls, emails or whatever. I just can't and don't want to talk to him or see him right now.<p>It is funny that Justartingover mentioned me being a care giver. You're right on the button with that one. Everyone else has always come first in my life (family, my MM of course, work, friends...). There is just no time for ME. Maybe that is why the time I spent with him was so special. It was time that I spent doing what I wanted, not something someone else wanted me to do for them. <p>Well, that's what has been happening. I know I shouldn't see him in person. I don't think I will after today's incident. I don't care to anymore. Even though I knew about OW4 it just hurt to see them together. (Especially somewhere him and I used to be.) <p>I feel hurt, sad, angry and yet relieved, if that is possible. I know he will try to contact me soon, but I'm avoiding him.<p>A big thank you to everyone for caring! I'll be in touch!

sigh....we warned you....well, enough of that...try REAL NO CONTACT this time. Write the no contact letter. Change your phone numbers. And for goodness sake......stop helping this f***ing jerk!!! i'm glad you came back. keep trying to do the right thing dj. i wish you had the nerve to call his wife....probably get blasted for saying that...but i do.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> i wish you had the nerve to call his wife....probably get blasted for saying that...but i do. <hr></blockquote><p>No blasts here, Star. I agree with all of your post, 100%!<p>As for what happened, DJ, I am sorry. I do wish this hadn't happened, and I'm sure you do, too. It did happen, though, and you still aren't a bad person. We all make mistakes, especially where we care the most. We are all weak sometimes. What makes us stronger is picking ourselves up, dusting off, and going on. <p>Stop any and all contact with him. Send him a no-contact letter. I'd send it to his house, but that's just me. However you do it, make sure you do it. No contact, not for birthdays, halloween, cinco de mayo, the third tuesday after equinox, whatever. Not for any reason. You have to protect yourself, this jerk will not do it for you.<p>He's like a fungus, he will just take and take and take without any regard for you. Until DJ is destroyed. He is about 90% taker, especially where you are concerned. Contact with him will only bring you more pain, especially since your eyes are opened now and you know what to look for.<p>You say you are a care-giver. Please give DJ some care, you really need it right now.

Hi DJ,<p>Glad you are still with us, and I am sorry you are hurting.It feels very strange to love and hate someone at the same time, doesn't it?<p>And, Starfish is very correct, you have to write that no contact letter, if you are serious about ending it with him. My MM kept coming back over and over after attempted break ups, but my letter made it final.And true no contact is just that, no contact.Let him plan his own party, let him make his own phone calls. You have much better uses for your time, like spending it on yourself. Avoid all places he will be.Tell him his wife gets a call everytime he tries to contact you.
And keep in mind, this will hurt like nothing else, but it is so worth it in the end.<p>Sometimes anger is a good motivator, so this seeing him with OW4 could be a blessing in discuise (but it is difficult to see that right now).Make it final, do not wait for him to come crawling back, and you and I know he will.<p>Enough of my lecturing.... hope Mom is doing well at home. Pneumonia in the elderly can be scary.Give her a big hug for us, cause we all love our Mommies!!<p>We will continue to support you in this,honest we will.I am 4 months into my recovery and really do feel better with each passing day. I do recall the pain of those first few days, knowing it was final.But I live each day staying true to my end of the no contact deal. I avoid his area of town(he is a cop), I try not to speed , and I do not drive by his house. Why set myself up for pain.He also knows how much it will hurt me to see him, so he avoids the hospital. Someone said he respects me by doing this, so I am happy for that.Like I said to you before, I may fall all to pieces if and when I do see him again.But I am holding myself accountable to me, and to everyone here who are all so supportive.
No contact works well, you just have to take the first step.Yeah, it hurts, prepare for that one.But the pain eventually eases.<p>Take care...... Mary