Sorry....my last post went thru twice! I wanted to delete it, but couldn't! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Sounds like you are on the right track!

Hang in there, DJ. You can do it, you will do it.<p>I understand how hard it is. For me, as a BS, it made far more sense to just get the hell out of this broken marriage. I saw my H in a very different light, not exactly heroic or even admirable. Yet I still love him and that's why I hung in. I've been lucky. My FWH is completely with me now, but I will never again trust him or love him with that innocence and shine. <p>You know what? Letting the betrayer go sets you free yourself! True! From my own experience.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by djmusicbox:
<strong>To AGG and Takola:
I can understand your frustration with me and apologize if I offend you (or anyone else).</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . I certainly am not offended, just frustrated...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>The recent contact that I've had with him has NOT been physical....</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm, maybe I misunderstood this phrase then: "He caught me in a weak moment and I needed him so bad."...??<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I do not arrange to "run into him".</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Then what does this mean: "I had some information on a hall rental for him (for the party) and wanted to drop it off during his lunch. I knew where he would be so decided to take it to him, rather than call."???

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>You say that writing the no contact letter should have been fairly easy. Why? Yes, I am angry and disappointed with him, but it is still not an easy thing to do.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Why is it not easy? Never mind, I'll write one for you:
"Dear MM, I am finished with our relationship. Please do not contact me in any way shape or form from this day forward. DJ". How's that? <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I am not making excuses but my time has been hectic lately with family and work issues. Writing the no contact letter is one more thing I will deal with.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Excuses is exactly what you are making...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong> Although I'll always love him dearly...</strong><hr></blockquote><p>You'll be surprised how quickly this will change, once you stop contact!<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>I will do the right thing, as soon as I can. Thank you everyone for your care and concern.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Just don't see the MM until then, please! Good luck DJ!<p>AGG<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: AGoodGuy ]</p>

AGG - I had to chuckle at your suggested no contact letter, "Dear MM, I am finished with our relationship. Please do not contact me in any way shape or form from this day forward. DJ". As my suggestion was similar "I can no longer be involved with a married man." Or, better yet, no letter at all, just cut off all contact. But I do understand dj when you say that writing the no contact letter is so hard, part of why I think it best for you to consider yourself broken up with him NOW and act accordingly, with or without a no contact letter. I can't think of much that is harder to do than break up with someone you sincerely love, and whether or not she should, whether or not this guy reciprocates or deserves it, I believe dj's feelings are sincere. So, I just wanted to pop in dj and say I do understand it is very, very hard. Best to just continue to avoid contact, and take steps to make that even more definate, with or without a no contact letter.<p>Dj, I think it's very likely that you are more in love with who you thought this guy was, who he allowed you to see, than the real him. Now that you are starting to see and realize some negitive things about him, perhaps you may realize it isn't the real him you've been in love with, and maybe that would help your resolve and emotional distancing.<p>This MM reminding you of your offer to help with his wife's birthday party, while he's persuing yet another woman no less, and has blown you off for a month to do so, just makes me want to puke. What a user, dj! Ok, you had offered, but if this man had any decency at all, he wouldn't be married to one lady, chasing after an OW, then allowing you, when he is of course aware of your feelings, to help with a birthday party for the woman he is committed to (such as it is in this case). Dj that is just so disrespectful and thoughtless.<p>But, it sounds like you are begining to see how this man acts and treats you, and I am glad. I understand how painful this must be for you dj, but you sound so much better and I know you will continue to get better and see clearer if you hang in there. <p>What helped me was to just break things off, regardless of my feelings, then deal with those feelings within myself, while still acting as I had decided to and should act - with no contact. Don't act on your feelings dj regarding him, act on what your head is telling you.<p>glad to hear your mom is doing better.<p>Put dj first dj, work on your self esteem, work on teaching yourself you deserve to have someone who cares for, takes care of, respects you. Work on your inner strength and your boundries - so that next time you are considering a relationship you expect and insist on good and equal treatment. Insist on something that is healthy and mutual, where you are on equal footing. Pamper yourself for a while dj, learn to meet your own needs and find happiness and fulfillment with yourself, and take care of your mom and your life, find a healthy balance again without this man. Become detirmined not to be used or taken advantage of again. Embrace the fact that you deserve that, and have the right to expect it. Build your life back up without this man. You very likely are going to be a stronger and healthier lady after going through this rough time dj. And even though I'd give up some of my strength for not having gone through some of the really tough things I've had to, it's still something [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Best of luck, keep us posted.<p>Juanita<p>[ May 08, 2002: Message edited by: Juanita ]</p>

DJ<p>How old are you? How old is MM?<p>Does anyone remember an age given?<p>Just courious?

DJ, how are you?<p>You really can do this, even though you fear the loneliness and emptiness. Tell you what, it is much easier to deal with loneliness on your own than be lonely when you're with somebody. And even if you stayed with this guy, you will always be lonely now, always wondering who's in his mind, who he's thinking of when he's in your bed, who's next on his "to do" list. BSs have this to live through as well.<p>I just wanted to make it very clear that I do not blame my FWH's XOW for the A. Had my H been the man I thought he was, he would not have responded to her lures (yes, she was the aggressor) and he would not have betrayed me in the way he did, while still continuing to assure me of his love and being affectionate with me. So my H is NOT the man I thought he was. But I have come to know both him and myself, truely, and on those grounds I made the decision to stay - on the absolutely non-negotiable basis that he was fully committed to the same ideal of marriage, or I was out, love or no love.<p>Hon, I want you to look at this picture. A man who will be glorying in all the praise and admiration for giving his W such a lovely 40th birthday party. Who did the real work? One of his OW, who is running around and making calls, organising a hall and getting catering quotes while he uses the time she saves him to pursue yet another OW. At the same time this man complains that his W is not loving or generous with him....

Doesn't that set your teeth on edge? Makes me want to barf, bigtime.

DJ<p>I was under the impression that you were in your 20's. <p>This was MY mistake. Your MOM is 81 so you would have to be in your 40's? Not that this changes anything but---Hmm.<p>How are you doing?<p>Hmmmmmm

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Takola, as an adult, I take full responsibility for my actions. I am to blame -- not him, not his wife, or the state of their marriage. I never passed the blame onto anyone. As for his wife, a marriage based on a lack of trust, doubt and tension must not be a happy one. I do sympathize with her for that. <hr></blockquote><p>Taking full responsibilty is a first step. You haven't passed the blame for your actions, no. I do not believe that you are a vicious OW out to destroy marriages. S*** happens. It is how you deal with it that counts.<p>The point that I AM trying to make is that you have been over a month now trying to get over this MM. That part is ok, it will take a very long time. What concerns me is that in that month, you have yet to draft or send a no contact letter. It seems an awful lot like procrastination. Emotionally, it is hard to do. But physically, it is not. Takes just a small amount of time, a stamp, and a mailbox. That's all. <p>I'm concerned that you are waiting until you are "ready". You will be waiting a long time for that, I'm afraid. Like waiting to be "ready" to be stuck with a needle. Just do it and get it over with. 3 months from now the no contact letter will probably not be any easier to write, either. <p>You can't stop your feelings, or your hurt. You can control your actions and take meaningful steps forward.

This whole thread is making me puke! Sorry but she could end it if she wanted to, the MM is not holding a gun to her head! A Good Guy's analysis of the situation is right on! END IT ALREADY! AND QUIT LYING TO US AND TO YOURSELF!<p>Perhaps there is an "Affair Builders" board that would be more helpful...<p>[ May 09, 2002: Message edited by: baba2 ]</p>

Gottruth?, for what it is worth, I am 46, MM is 42 and his wife will soon be 40. We are definitely old enough to know better....so I can't blame all this on being young and naive.<p>I'm doing ok. Haven't had any contact with him. He is still leaving messages, but I am not responding in any way, shape or form.<p>Juanita, it was good to hear from you. I hope you are doing well, also. As you suggested, I do consider myself broken up with him. I do NOT plan on seeing him or having contact with him. He can try all he wants, but I'm not responding. I've changed and learned way too much.<p>You've made a point that really hit home. It made me realize that I was indeed in love with who I thought he was....the image of the "perfect man" that I wanted him to be. Although I knew there never could be a future for us, I really felt that he was the guy meant for me. Now, seeing him for what he really is, instead of what I thought he was, changes everything. I'm not saying I don't still love him, because I do. He brought too much joy into my life to just forget or pretend it never happened. But, it is a different kind of love now. It is no longer that beautiful, romantic, exciting kind of love it once was. Now it is more of a mellow, "caring" type of love. In spite of what AGG says, I will always have feelings for him; not the same deep love I once had, but feelings, nontheless.<p>Takola, ok maybe my lack of writing a no contact letter sounds like procrastination. I have NO intention to see him. With or without a letter, I know it is over. But I do understand why such a letter is so important. I think he will get the message after repeated attempts at contacting me with no response. And you are right, months from now it will not be any easier to write. I just don't know if it is really necessary, as long as I know I do NOT want to be with him. As for HIM knowing that, maybe I should just let him figure it out.<p>So everyone, for now things are ok. I'm dealing with this day-by-day. There really is a small glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel.

DJ,<p>I am glad you are well, and sounding so much stronger....day by day....it is a process. The no contact letter could help a lot. It is a symbol, a written representation of you severing your relationship with this man. It is somewhat like a funeral in the sense that it provides closure for everyone. I would strongly suggest that you mail a copy of it to his wife....she deserves better than him, as do you. I am glad to see you responding with grace and determination, accepting responsibility...and I look forward to the day you come here and say...."What did I ever see in that man!" Good luck to you. Keep going.

[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

djmusicbox,<p>I'm happy to see you have decided on no contact and to break it off. You have come so far since you first came to this website [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I would like to encourage you to write the no contact letter because it is important to give yourself every opportunity to have a successful breakup. We all have our weaknesses, and we need to protect against them. The letter helps to do that. It makes it clear to the OM what's going on, so you aren't tempted with emails, phone calls, drive by's etc. You allow him to be part of the solution. You owe it to yourself and his family to take this step. It may be painful, but I think you will feel better for it because for once, you will be in control, not him.<p>The letter shouldn't say or have anything in it that would provide hope for the OM (no purfume). He needs to be totally clear that there isn't any point to contact you. If you are serious about making this breakup stick, you need to take this step. I get the feeling you aren't taking this step, because you really do want to keep your options open. That means you haven't given him up yet.<p>Let's use an analogy. If you were a drug addict, and your best friend were a dealer, would it be dangerous to ever see your drug dealer friend again, once you decided to get sober? Well you are the addict, and he's the dealer. I think if you were in this situation, it would be obvious that you needed to never see the dealer again!<p>Here's a no contact letter sample for you to use:
MM, I want you to know, that I have come to realize that our relationship was wrong and is damaging to everyone involved especially your wife and children. I hope you will seek help for your families sake. I will not make any further contact with you, and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship. Sincerely, djmusicbox
CC: MM Wife<p>dj, Please take this important step!<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Want2FixIt ]</p>

Hello to everyone again!<p>The no contact is still in effect. When I think about his lies and deceit, I'm more determined than ever not to see him. I don't think I'd be able to trust him or anything he ever said, anyway. A part of me wishes there was a possibility of just being "friends" (nothing more) with him, since we did have so much in common. But I'm smart enough to know that can't happen because this "addiction" has to end.<p>Want2FixIt, thank you so much for the sample letter! It will help me tremendously! Whenever I tried to think about writing one, I was lost for words.<p>I do have a question, though:<p>Although I understand the purpose of the letter and how important it is (for him and I), I don't understand why his wife should see it.<p>It would seem to me, that since she has been suspicious for so long, giving her such a letter would be like pouring salt on her wound. How could I tell her that her "loving" husband really DID betray her??? (And not just with a one-night stand, but a lengthy relationship with me.) She HAS accused him of infidelity and of course he always had an answer for her. He told her he didn't have time, he's too busy with her and the kids, he loves her too much and was offended that she even thought he would do such a thing.<p>I am somewhat acquainted with her, and I wouldn't have the heart to hurt her even more. She seems to have a low self-esteem of herself, usually calling herself "fat, ugly and stupid." How could I rub her nose into the fact that "yes, for whatever reason, it really DID happen"? And how could her knowing possibly help her or their marriage?? (Ok, I know their marriage situation is their problem, not mine, but I'm curious.)<p>I will consider sending him the letter to put a closure on this relationship. Thanks again for your words of wisdom and concern!<p>PS: Starfish, I don't know if I'll ever ask myself "what did I see in him". It was something I never saw before in anyone and doubt I'll ever see again! But whatever it was, it left an impression on my heart.

dj,<p>I'm happy to see the letter helps [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I can understand why it would be difficult to put words to it when you are in the fog, which is why I did it.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I do have a question, though:<p>Although I understand the purpose of the letter and how important it is (for him and I), I don't understand why his wife should see it.
<hr></blockquote>
Others may disagree, but I think she has a right to know. She is the one being betrayed, and he continues this behavior with others. This gives her the chance to deal with it in a meaningful way. You are doing her a favor - she may be subjected to STD's, not to mention the cheating that continues to this day.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
It would seem to me, that since she has been suspicious for so long, giving her such a letter would be like pouring salt on her wound. How could I tell her that her "loving" husband really DID betray her??? (And not just with a one-night stand, but a lengthy relationship with me.)
<hr></blockquote>
You aren't the one pouring the salt, he is with his behavior. You are helping her. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
She HAS accused him of infidelity and of course he always had an answer for her. He told her he didn't have time, he's too busy with her and the kids, he loves her too much and was offended that she even thought he would do such a thing.
<hr></blockquote>
There are consequenses to our actions. He will have to face up to them too. Might as well be now.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>
I am somewhat acquainted with her, and I wouldn't have the heart to hurt her even more. She seems to have a low self-esteem of herself, usually calling herself "fat, ugly and stupid." How could I rub her nose into the fact that "yes, for whatever reason, it really DID happen"? And how could her knowing possibly help her or their marriage?? (Ok, I know their marriage situation is their problem, not mine, but I'm curious.)
<hr></blockquote>
You can't help her self esteem by keeping it secret. The most important thing is to give it to him. If you can get the courage to give it to his wife also, I think it will be a good thing for her in the long run. You are doing the right thing by realizing it is wrong, and then breaking it off cleanly. Their marriage is indeed their problem so just move on. You have to keep in mind your future is what you have to worry about from here on out.<p>Best wishes<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Want2FixIt ]</p>

DJ,<p>I just thought of another reason to send a copy of the letter to the wife. When she finds out about the A on her own, she will be suspicious about whether or not it is continuing. By sending her the letter, she at least has some assurances that you aren't willing to continue it any more. This would help them to get closure on it quicker. As far as the other A's he continues, those may come to a halt also by forcing the issue.

DJ,<p>I won't push you to do something that you don't want to, but I can think of several reasons also to send the letter to his wife.<p>1. When my husband was unfaithful to me, he compromised my safety and health, by exposing me to his promiscuity. I had a right to know that I was in danger and protect myself and my children. What if I had gotten pregnant for instance with an STD that could potentially harm my child...like herpes which can cause blindness....or an STD that caused severe endomitriosis that would render me sterile, god forbid the ones that are worse.<p>2. As a human being, I have a right to choose whether I want to live with a liar and a cheater and have that man as a role model for my children.<p>3. If I want to keep this man in my life, I have a right to peace of mind that his affair(s) are over so we can try to rebuild our marriage and can feel secure in my life and not miserable and suspicious forever.<p>4. If you don't give this letter to his wife, he will possibly never be accountable for his actions, he will never grow, he will never learn to make a true commitment to anyone, or be a true caring human being. He will always think that he can operate outside of the rules.<p>This is just what comes to mind. I'm sure others can think of more. I know you are not a mean vindictive person....in fact you are loving to a fault....which is why he picked you. You are safe. You are selfless. You are loyal. I know you would never seek to hurt him. But you are not responsible for his deeds. And you will not help him as a human being by protecting him. And you will hurt others by protecting him.<p>I know you cannot now ever imagine being able to say that you don't know what you ever saw in him....but I can almost promise you, that you will. And you will not look at losing him as a mistake....but meeting him in the first place, believing his lies, and wasting so much of yourself and your time in pleasing him. I don't expect you to believe me. Right now it is still too raw. That's okay. It is enough that you have been strong so far. But I hope you will consider truly finalizing this separation and begin the search for someone who is truly worthy of your affection and love. <p>My prayers go with you.

Excellent reasons Starfish!

Thanks Fix,<p>Hope DJ hears them.