STOP!! Don't do anything. Don't break Plan B AGAIN by sending him a message when you have told him you are ending contact. Stick to no contact and show him you are serious....this time.

You are the cause of this Plan B breach. I told you right from the start this would happen. All you need to do is go into an airtight Plan B. It is up to YOU, not him, to uphold your Plan B.

He doesn't care, amac.

It's been 5 years since my divorce and my WxH is not really in the fog anymore but he is still a very lousy father (you can ask MelodyLane or some of the other posters here who know my situation well!).

You can point x, y and z out to him to his face and he will seem to get it and then one minute later it's all about him again.

This would be a good thing for you to accept now because this may never change with your WH and no amount of talking to him about it (just like with your attempts to "talk" him out of his affair) will help.

It will just frustrate you and set you back. It's not worth it and it won't work.

Sue is correct, he won't care. That is about as effective as lecturing a falling down drunk.

p.s. if you will really take Plan B seriously and shut this down, it might wake him up. So far, he has maintained full control of you via the continued contact. That has kept him out there in affairland.

One thing that does SCARE him is your divorce action. He has been trying to shut that down for a while now by throwing you empty little crumbs.

Your best chance comes from a) moving forward with the divorce and staying completely DARK. No more little messages from you through your sister and no more breaches of contact.

Yes, I thought that might be it, which was why I posted.

It went well with the babysitter, did relieve a lot of pressure for me.

I will do it!

That is sad to hear, but I know its true. And if I plan to parallel parent I can't pick and choose what issues to concern him with. I plan to act that he doesn't even exist as a parent except for what Im legally obligated to apprise him of, I've already been doing that pretty much.

Yes, that seems painfully obvious now. Plan B and D here I come.

Hi amac, when I was struggling with plan B, I was mentally making up reasons why I absolutely had to contact him - and believing my own justifications that it was impossible to avoid. I now know I was wrong and was keeping myself in the drama unnecessarily. The reasons were things like: if I was going to be out in the evening with the kids and we would miss the usual skype call time, so I would let him know we were not there; or sending him mails to complain about him not paying the medical insurance and demanding that it was done; or thinking that direct contact would make him pay maintenance on time. But since I decided to TOTALLY cut off all that contact, I realise that I didn't really need to even mention those things anyway. So what if he calls on skype and we are not in? The fact that we don't answer will tell him we are out and he can try later if he can be bothered to make the effort. If he was going to pay the medical insurance, he would have done it. Me complaining will not make that happen. So I've left it to the lawyer now.

I am SO SO much calmer and happier now that we have total zero contact. I have no idea what he is doing, no way to hear anything about it, and, the best thing is, I don't even care.

If he crosses my mind at all, i just smile to myself knowing that I have managed to take all the family assets, I've got all the children, he doesn't have a visa for this country, and I'm submitting another urgent application today for the maintenance money, so the kids and I have done pretty well out of the situation so far! I know WH is going to be having a miserable time soon, if not already, and that is enough justice for me.

Hi Chalk, you are so lucky that you are literally in a different country then WH! It is truly amazing what you have been able to accomplish. Maybe I just need to pretend the same thing exists for me, WH and I are clearly on different planets mentally

I think alot about what I have read on other Plan B threads, that this is really our time. If we get to the point of recovery, its going to be hard. I got a taste of it for the 2 weeks WH had claimed to have ended the affair and its a hard state to want to go back to. I know I wasn't strong enough to do it 3 months ago. Though I have struggled with no contact, one thing I have been very good at in Plan B is making a life for myself and my kids without WH. I'm almost afraid of enjoying myself too much. When WH has come to me with his crumbs I'm not even tempted to take him back. I find myself thinking now, "If WH were to come back now then I wouldnt be able to do x,y,and z, because that would be too independent behavior." Unless he is coming with an very attractive alternative I'm taking my x,y, and z.

Gotta say, I'm loving dark Plan B. WH is not to happy about it though, it seems. My sister (IM) warned me of a potential ambush last night. Sorry bud, babysitter at the drop off so no way to get at me!

Today is the deadline for him to respond to my agreement. I thought he would sign it to provoke me but I'm guessing he is not feeling that confident anymore so he will probably do nothing. Which means I have to move the divorce along without him. I have proposed that my attorney tell him that since he is not signing I will seek retroactive child support from the court for the last 4 months. That will really squeeze him, and he will probably see it as a declaration of war which I am kind of afraid of. I think I could also get a divorce by default since he has not responded. That means everything gets split 50/50 which I am not too excited about, but may be better then having this drag out for years. That also means the divorce would effectively be done (except for our marital status remaining for the mandatory 6 months, which would put me to end of Jan 2018 I think). Or I could do nothing and wait around for him to get pissed enough to sign it to spite me. But I'm not a fan of anymore waiting around, hard to know what to do.

Hi Amac, it's so good to hear that Plan B is working for you too! Did you WH sign? I wouldn't worry about provoking him or doing things he might think of as "a declaration of war". I think (from reading other threads and from my own experience) that waywards are primarily concerned with trying to move on from the mess they have created as cleanly and easily as possible, so they can maintain their fantasy that they haven't just dumped their wife and kids to pursue their totally selfish desires.

From what you've said before, 50/50 sounds like it might be quite a good outcome for you. So take it as a blessing if your WH doesn't want to respond! Although just make sure you don't let your guard down in case he throws in a curve-ball somehow.

I like to remind myself of this quote from the Art of War: "To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself."

Plan B, with some good financial planning and legal strategy, protects us from defeat. Then we just have to wait for the WS to deliver us the opportunity to get the better of them. And because they are only thinking about themselves and their immediate happiness, those opportunities are many.

Hi Chalk - no, WH has not responded at all to my proposed agreement. Seems that he just prefers to ignore that the divorce is happening, much like your WH. I asked for the child support payment through my IM, and if he does not deposit it today my attorney is going to send him a letter detailing all of his lack of response and thus making it so I will have to file an action in court for child support and will be requesting attorneys fees. Hopefully that threat will do something, I cannot imagine WH will be happy about the prospect of being brought into court as a deadbeat dad in front of judges he knows and colleagues. But my attorney says to even get a hearing date is 6 weeks!!

WH has told my IM he does not plan on seeing the kids this weekend because he wants to go to Seattle, where his parents live. I feel like this is some kind of play on his part, not sure what though. I had asked him to do that months ago as a way to separate himself from the affair. Doesn't mean much to me for him to go now, but there would be no reason for him to just go up there on whim like this. To me just means another weekend of him not seeing his kids. There is no figuring out these people.

Things are starting to come to a head, for good or worse. WH did not send the money, and when my sister sent a text to confirm that it was sent and that he was not seeing the kids this weekend, he never responded. His sister posted pictures on facebook that show he was in seattle, which surprised me. Last I heard from his mom no one wanted to see or talk to him. I bet he is spinning some tale to them which is frustrating and I want to set them straight, but I know I need to stay dark so I won't. Most significantly, he filed a response to the divorce on Friday. That kind of stung but I was preparing myself for something. I knew after our last conversation that he would do something to provoke a reaction from me. I was hoping it would be signing the agreement, but that was too much to lose for him, the response was his best play because now I think that stops me from getting a default.

Things are probably going to get nasty now. Since he has not paid my attorney will request the child support from the court. WH is crazy. To not pay, not respond, and not see his kids all look very bad for him in court. I have no clue what he is doing. I dont think he is going to respond well to this request at all, but it has to be done. If I get what I'm asking for (and entitled to) he will be out of money pretty quick.

His fantasyland is going to come crashing down on him I think, but how often does the crash make them realize it was THEMSELVES who did this, or do they continue to point the finger at the BS?

The city where I live has had a massive fire over the last few days. My house was not evacuated but my kids daycare was. Luckily it was a holiday for me when it broke out so they were with me driving back from Utah. I read stories from other parents about the evacuation. The fire literally burnt right up to the street where it is located. The babies were wheeled out in their cribs, covered in blankets from head to toe because of the embers and ash in the air and taken to a local fire station. The fire is still raging but going the opposite direction now.

Friends, family, cowokers all have sent me worried texts asking how we are. Even WH's sister in Utah sent a text saying she was thinking of us. WH did not reach out at all to my IM. When she told him he needed to pick up the kids at the house instead of the daycare because of the evacuation and asked him to come earlier then he usually gets them he responded he "wish he had more notice." He has seen them a total of 5 hours in 2 weeks and probably less then a days worth the entire month.

I am literally pulsing with anger. I know my sister should not have told me what he said, she was too mad. I told her she needs to be tighter and tell me nothing. I feel the way I did when I first discovered contact after he claimed the affair was over. I felt non stop anger for an entire month. I do not want to feel this way, what can I do?

Hi Amac, I'm so sorry!! This is really one of the hardest things to deal with because you love your children so much and you want them to have a great father - which they currently do not. I understand the anger and the frustration and the pain of that feeling, and how it is a totally separate and different betrayal to the actual affair.

I saw a social worker last week about my kids and she had some quite good advice about making myself understand that my husband's relationship with his children is not my responsibility and I have to let go of what I want for them from him, because it is totally out of my control. I cannot give them a father. Only he can do that. All I can do is make sure I am the best mum I can be, and be there to answer their questions truthfully about why WH is not there when they ask.

I struggle a bit with the line between being truthful/not being disrespectful about WH to the kids when he tells them blatent lies every day on Skype and they pass on these things to me. But I'm trying. Yours are still so small though, so I guess you don't have so much of an issue with difficult questions to answer.

This betrayal is so much worse. I truly believe I could get over and forgive the affair. But I knew all along and I have told him this many times in the past, what I will hate him for and probably never forgive is the consequences his actions bring on our children. The greatest of them at this point being depriving them of a father. I know I can't control it which is why I am so grateful for Plan B and being introduced to the concept of parallel parenting; since he is not acting like a parent I will not give him the title of "co parent" but that means I need to get my expectations in line with that as well.

The stark reality of what "wayward" actually is, an individual so entrenched in mental fog, he/she is incapable of rational thought or compassion for others...

I am sorry your WH is being so insensitive to this event, and specifically seems to have very little concern for the safety of your children. Chalk this up as a feather in your cap with regards to custody hearings, I would have your sister print out his response so as to keep it for your documentation.

Good to hear you are OK, lots of devastation out there.

Thanks Unwritten, yes I am glad there is some way I can use his waywardness against him to my benefit.

I'm having a very strong temptation to contact OWBH again. Wondering if I should or not. I think there are a few motivations behind this temptation. First, I dont know if he is aware that the affair is physical and that has always bothered me a bit. I just assumed he did so I never addressed it specifically with him when we spoke, but when I spoke to OW mother awhile back she said OW told her it was not physical, I told OW mother it was, but I think its likely she would not share that information with OWBH. Also, WH has recently told my mother in law that OW and her husband are still together but for their pending adoption. OW is like a teenager who posts her emotions on facebook and put up a quote "i love us" a few weeks ago, I know this is in reference to my WH because he wrote it to her in an email before, but OWBH liked the post! I dont get it, but I think he must assume she was talking about him? Can he be that clueless? I also hate the idea that her lies to him are effecting the life of that poor child who will likely be adopted into a broken home. At the same time, I dont know how much more I should feel obligated to help this BH see the truth when he seems to be willfully ignoring things.

Also, now that I have filed the order for child support with the court WH is REALLY feeling the pressure to get off the couch and find a place of his own. On Friday my mother in law told me he was looking for a place, but yesterday when my daughter came home from her time with him she said "daddys house is really cute." That shocked me. I dont know if he actually found a place of his own, or brought her to the house he has been living at for the last few months, or worst thought of all, to OW's house. The thought of my children being around OW is unbearable, so that's what makes me want to start messing with the affair again. Other then that aspect, ive pretty much gotten to the place that I could care less what WH is doing, but do not want my children exposed to his filth.

So what do you think, contact OWBH again and risk more drama? Or just accept that at this point I have done what I could for OWBH and that I can't control whether WH brings the kids around her or not and just keep myself in the dark as much as possible?

I have requested a clause that the children not be exposed to significant others until the divorce is final and there has been a continuous dating relationship for a year, but its not an enforceable order yet and would be hard for me to enforce without seeing it myself since my kids are so young.

If this was me, I would contact the OWH and make sure he understands the truth about the affair. I have seen betrayed husbands dismiss or justify affairs because they didn't believe it was physical. Of course, he seems to be pretty wimpy so it likely won't make a difference.

Also, I would not permit my child to be exposed to his affair.