Hello All,
I�ll try and keep this short!

My WW BD on the 8th January 2017 informing me that she is involved emotionally with a co-worker, this R started in November 2016. She told me this due to it becoming a PA from that point on.

We have been together for 12 years and married 7 with two sons aged 10 and 8.

In February I moved out of the family home due to her continuing PA and the mental torture being inflicted on not just me but the effect this was having on my children, she wouldn�t leave and was adamant about this so had no other choice. Since then I have been sharing custody of our children 50:50.

Neither of us have mentioned D except in anger (always by her when she doesn�t get her way) as I want to try and keep my family together as it�s the right thing to do. Having read you �newcomer� feeds I feel I have been doing most of the principles already�
1. Basically have little contact with WW except drop off and pick up of the kids.
2. Never get in touch with WW at all except for emergencies.

I should mention it is impossible for me to truly Plan B and will always have some although very little contact with WW due to our circumstances.

What I�m struggling with is detachment, early in the situation I was constantly thinking of her and what she was doing but as times gone by this is getting less frequent but not total I can�t see how anybody can emotionally detach totally!

I need to mention I am STANDING for my MR, I still L my WW and can see and understand that 50% of the reason she had her A was down to me but the other 50% of the issues in our MR must be down to her but I never crossed the line!!!

I�ve been stalking the boards and come to the point where I feel I�m moving nowhere regarding my situation and ask for the sites advice as to how I can progress this with a view to ultimately get to RC my MR.

Thanks.

Mark.

Hi Mark, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am not sure where you got the idea for your current plan, because it is the last thing we would ever suggest. First off, we would not recommend Plan B for a betrayed husband until you had done Plan A for several months. Secondly, what you describe is not Plan B, but Plan C, which is more likely to lead to divorce.

Even though alot of time has passed with no effective plan in place, you have a small chance at recovery if you can follow Plan A. Plan A is two-fold: offering to meet her needs if she ends her affair and fighting the affair.

Your best hope comes in defeating her affair because her detachment is almost entirely due to her affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so your best chance is to expose her affair wide and far. This is much more impactful when done earlier in the affair, but you can still damage her affair if you do it now.

Is the OM married? If so, does his wife know? Is he her boss at work?

Check this out: What is Plan A and Plan B?

Exposure 101

Hi MelodyLane,

Thanks for your response.

Initially once I found out about the A I did all the usual things that the BS does but obviously this got me nowhere! WW continued to see her AP and created an environment at home that was extremely detrimental to my children and I AFTER several weeks of this basically missed Plan A and feel straight into a type of Plan B by separating from her.

The mental and verbal abuse was something I wasn�t willing to take and seeing the damage it was causing to my MR and to my son�s took the hardest decision to find a place where I could get away from her chaos. I never had the chance to Plan A as it was so volatile I had to protect my kids and I.
Once apart I then realised that the space helped immensely I found some peace and started to work on how I could best protect my MR and my children. My WW never contacted me at all and I would never pursue her unless it was logistics for the children.

Regarding exposure the AP is married and has two young sons also, his W knows about his A with my W. All family members and a few well-chosen work colleagues are also aware. The AP is NOT her boss, I know I�m mind reading BUT it would seem everyone involved with WW isn�t condoning her actions towards her family!!!

Could you outline where my version of Plan B differs from the boards and what is Plan C?

�Plan B is to avoid all contact with the unfaithful spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery.� �In general, I recommend separation when at least one spouse cannot control destructive behaviour. An ongoing affair, of course, is one of those situations. Hence, plan B. But other situations such as physical and verbal abuse, where one spouse's mental or physical safety is as risk, are also grounds for separation.�� But in some cases, the safety risks are so great that plan B should be implemented immediately, with no time for plan A.�

This above ^^^^ statement is spot on with my situation at the beginning!

Unfortunately the situation with my WW means we are having to have F2F 3-days a week when she does not have custody of the kids, I will not allow her actions towards me affect their relationship with their mother. I basically allow her to have access to them but remove myself and return once goodbyes have been spoken then show her out stay civil and move on.

I feel though through all of this that it�s all irrelevant due to him being a co-worker, there's 0.0% chance on NC after the A comes to an end BUT won�t be the one who files and be responsible for the breakup of our family, she did this she should be �man� enough to end it.

Mark.

I don't think you understand what Plan B means. Plan B is a complete and total separation, which you have not done. You are still in touch with her, which is actually PLAN C. PLAN C is the most likely to result in divorce.


I don't know what an "MR" is, however, most wayward wives are mean and abusive. And most BH's [betrayed husbands] can deal with this for some time. Leaving your home only facilitated the affair and made your children more vulnerable to your wife's reckless lifestyle.


These people know WHAT EXACTLY? And who told them?


Have you personally exposed the affair to "everyone involved? Have you personally exposed the affair to the OM's wife? His parents? The authorities in the workplace?

It's very hard to believe that all these people know yet they sit by idly.

What do your children think about the affair? Is the OM coming into your home being exposed to your children?


Plan B is NO CONTACT. Plan C is limited contact which makes the situation worse. Dr Harley explains why Plan C is a bad idea: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2798


You are not in Plan B. Nor is it appropriate for your situation.


Her actions towards you HAVE affected your relationship with their mother. Again, this is not Plan B and is the most negative thing you can do for your relationship.


If the workplace authorities knew about the affair, they might feel differently. I don't know many companies that will allow their employees to carry on an affair in the workplace. Nor do workplace cheaters hang around for long once every one knows.

Mark, did you read these threads?

Welome to MB.

It is evident from the terminology you used in your first post ("BD"; "Newcomer feeds"; "detachment"; "standing"; "RC"; "MR") that you have been posting on the Divorce Busters forum, and trying to follow their advice. It seems that you have then browsed this forum and come across "Plan B", which seems to you to be the same as the advice given on DB to "detach".

The problem is that the two programmes are not the same, and you cannot mix the approaches and expect to have success.

DB teaches the betrayed spouse to "detach" or do the "180" from the outset. This is done to create the impression of indifference towards the wayward spouse, with a goal of making that spouse curious and jealous. The problem with that approach for men is that it doesn't work. The unfaithful wife is very likely to be in love with her affair partner, and giving her space and detaching from her only supports her view that you have been an uncaring husband who could not have cared less if she dropped off the planet this instant. The other man, with his flattering emails, texts and phone calls, and constant attention, is bound to look like the better choice, compared to your indifference towards her.

Marriage Builders does not recommend game-playing in this way. For men, the advice (if you want to save the marriage) is to go into Plan A, which starts with exposing the affair (a move that DB flat-out rejects) and asking for support from your families and caring friends. If the OM is married, his wife must be informed (the kids too, if they are contactable), and if this is a workplace affair, it should be exposed to both employers if your wife refuses to end it immediately.

Plan A (for a husband) then involves offering to address the unfaithful wife's complaints about the marriage, and meeting any emotional needs that she will allow you to meet. Executing Plan A is hard on husbands, but Dr Harley knows that most can do it for a sustained period of time - up to two years. It is essential to do this if you want to win your wife back, or at the very least, remain attractive to her when the affair breaks down (as most do, within short order). Giving up in frustration and moving out of the house, as you have done, is a very bad idea, as it gives your wife the freedom she needs to cement the relationship with OM. Also, it gives you little or no opportunity to Plan A and win her back from him.

Plan B - the complete ending of contact - should only be done when a husband cannot take the emotional toll any more - but in admitting this and going to plan B, a husband needs to realise that his marriage is unlikely ever to recover. Plan B might have the effect of making your wife realise what she is missing, but it is more likely to make her realise that you are unreliable, while OM is supportive.

If you want to follow Dr Harley's MB plan, you needs to scrap DB. You should be in Plan A, and "indifference", "detachment" and Plan A do not mix.

Thanks again Melody,

It would seem I'm in Plan C but don't really have a choice!

My situation does not allow me to TOTALLY go NC with my WW due to family commitments. Do you suggest I should NOT allow my boys to see their mum when they can? Again that doesn't involve me as I'm not in the picture, civil goodbyes is all the conversation I have when this happens.

I have no other contact at all except logistics for hand overs and emergencies.

I have to co-parent and keep this very business like no friendly conversations just give or take the boys depending on where they are on our parenting rota.

Now that I'm in Plan C how can I make this as best as I can to give me any chance of reconciling my MR (marriage)?

WW has met with AP's W but you are right about his side as I only know about WW family as I have told them all. Again not sure about there work colleagues either and would appreciate anybody's templates for HR letters regarding their exposure.

Mark.

What are "the usual things that the BS does"?

Did those things involve a formal exposure of the affair, to his wife and to their employers?

Exactly WHAT does his wife know about the affair with her husband? If she really knew, he would not still be living there. His wife would not put up with this. Women do not accept their husbands having sex, and dating, and having intimate conversations, and falling in love, with another woman, while she washes his shirts and cooks his food and gets treated like the maid. She would kick him out and get legal help with financial support for her and the children. What you have written is highly unlikely.

What conversations have you had with the wife?

Do any of the "well-chosen" work colleagues include the line managers and HR? If not, why not? What do you expect the "well-chosen" colleagues to do? Do they have the power to do anything, if they are not in positions of authority?

Do your wife's parents know that she is being unfaithful to you, having sex with a married man whose family she might well destroy, and hurting her own children? What do they say about that? Have you ever explicitly asked for their help?

Did AP's wife rip her a new one?

Hi SugarCane,

Please I had no choice but to leave the family home it was one of the hardest decisions I had to make BUT I had to do it for my children and my own sanity. There was no way the Plan A approach would have had any affect on her in this state!

We were being systematically abused mentally and verbally and me staying would have escalated it immensely. One thing the DR members do say is research the subject and some members are/were WW, they have given me a great insight to the wayward and there disrespectful ways towards the BS.

Question is now how do I manage my situation..? More research I feel is necessary but will start by gaining back my friendship with her and being her safe place if she feels the need to interact with me.

Hopefully she doesn't see this as cake eating. So confused.

Mark.

SugarCane,

AP has moved back in with his parents but does spend time in the family home with my WW, I have had NO conversations with AP wife.

I will start talking to my WW but feel her attitude towards me at the moment is one of no respect AT ALL.

Why would I want to wait around for her to choose me as a plan b if her A goes sour? She would have the best of both worlds and all her EN's are being met that could go on forever...

You need to do a proper exposure. Did you read the exposure thread?

Here BSs Plan C is not a Plan

Yes you do have choices and you have made the wrong one. You should be in Plan A.


NC is for you and your wife, not your children. Even so, you should not be in Plan B. All you did was hand your wife and your children over to the OM for no good reason.

[quote\I have no other contact at all except logistics for hand overs and emergencies. [/quote]

You have remained in contact which has made the situation WORSE.


i agree it is cute and trendy to say "co-parenting" but that is not healthy for anyone concerned here. Least of all your marriage.


You can stop Plan C and go into Plan B.


First off, you have no idea if the OM's wife even knows about the affair. And secondly, the authorities at the workplace would very much apperciate knowing that they are being placed in legal jeopardy by a reckless workplace affair.

She has the best of both worlds right now with you enabling her affair. Your strategy serves the AFFAIR, not your marriage, not your children. Your marriage, home and children have been handed over to the OM. BY YOU.

Anyway, did you need some help? WE might be able to help you, but we won't help you with a failed strategy.

Mark_P,

I wanted to make sure you understood that MelodyLane and BrainHurts are among the most experienced and knowledgeable on this forum. Their advice may be counter to what you've read on DB, but then DB does not have a good track record saving marriages like MB does. Their advice is directly in line with Dr. Harley's advice...and his advice is based on 40 years of experience of successfully saving marriages.

MelodyLane, BrainHurts and many others here will help you save your M if that is what you wish, they care more than you can imagine. Please follow their advice, even though some of it might be difficult. Believe me, your best odds at saving your M is to listen to them.

I wish you well.

Hello All,

Right off the bat I appreciate all of your contributions and advice given it�s a very difficult time for me and my children.

I suppose we are where we are in regards to my situation but let me clarify.
1. I had no choice but to leave the family home � as much as this was and is wrong it had to happen for the wellbeing of my children and me.
2. Logistically I can�t truly Plan B as there HAS to be contact due to family commitments � obviously if I could this would be different IT JUST CAN�T. I have no means to have an intermediary so have to modify the contact as best I can.

Now I understand this isn�t helping my cause and understand your frustration for me but there isn�t much else I can do. Exposure I assure you the A is known my WW and AP are blatantly going about town flaunting this and had family members and colleagues testify to this, work staff have reported back to me personally that the A is known there as well. I have not pursued this they did it because they felt �I needed to know�.

Please understand I�m not fighting anybody on these boards, I�m in a bad situation and am looking for a way to try and gain a successful resolution so for me as Melody would suggest Plan B is now my path and try to plug the hole in the bucket of her �love bank�.

I very much want to fight for my MR but will always be hampered due to my circumstances please don�t disregard my problem due to me unable to follow the �plan� word for word! I hope you will continue to help me in my situation but understand this is a massive challenge�

Mark.

Here our suggestion: 1. EXPOSE the affair. Expose the affair to the wife, the OM's family and the workplace. Don't tell us "everybody knows." You don't know what they know and if they know unless you do it.

2. Go into Plan A. All you are doing with Plan C is making the OM look better and greatly harming your chances. Giving her the cold shoulder and being "businesslike" [whatever this means] makes the OM more attractive. Do you think the OM is being "businesslike" with her? I really don't think you want to do that. So far you have only helped the OM destroy your family.

So, we will help you do things that are helpful, not harmful. We won't help you do destructive things. That is like asking us to help you push the car up the hill and you refuse to turn off the parking brake. Drop your plan, it sucks.

Hi Melody,

Thanks this is exactly what I need and I bow to your experience, does me going to Plan A even though I�m separated from WW smack of cake eating? Does this not extend the timescale further? Will I pursuing her not just push her more towards the AP�?

I intend to make sure AP W is aware and use the template to communicate to WW/AP workplace.

I know I ask a lot BUT could the forum share its thoughts on how I can instigate Plan A in my current situation?

Thanks.

Mark.

You have already pushed her away with your cold shoulder treatment. That is not attractive to a woman. Plan A gives you the best chance because it serves to attract her back.

But you have to buck up here and do everything you can to bust up this affair. You have allowed the OM to just come in and take your family. There are no guarantees but your marriage is guaranteed to end if you don't start fighting for it.


I would call the OM's wife yourself and give her all the facts. in addition, you need to expose to his family and friends and your own children.


Others can comment, but the best way is to be kind and inviting and look for opportunities to meet her needs and make yourself look better than the OM.
You have a distinct advantage over him in taht you are the father of your chldren.

Do your kids know what is going on? Have they been exposed to this rat?