I agree with ML. Also, you don't want to open the door to "changes", that is an awful idea with a wayward.

The situation with your in-laws is a big NO. They should be seeing the kids during your WH's time not to mention seeing them is not going to help you with your Plan B.

Ok, got it.

I am livid. WH did not make his 15th child support payment, did not make today's payment, and because I prepared for him not to make his payment I had a message sent he needs to pay our kids daycare directly his half. The daycare emailed me today and said he did not pay and wants to know when to expect it. I dont know what to do. I emailed my attorney but I know there is no short term solution. We can start the process of garnishing his wages but that takes time, and I dont think that includes his daycare.

Of course this makes no sense, and i know thats par for the course for a wayward. But really, he does this for a living! How can he think he can get away with this - and why!!

I am writing nasty emails to him in my head and i want to post on facebook about him being a deadbeat dad. I wont do it though, but its sooo hard not to lash out. I think he has to be doing this to get a reaction from me, I cannot see any other explanation. My sister thinks I shouldn't let him see the kids anymore, there is no court orders for his time, only for child support. But I dont think that would look good for me in court.

How am I going to deal with these games for the rest of my life?

It may be that he's pouting but really this is just what waywards do. Thinking only of yourself is hard on the wallet and on anybody who relies on you.

I get the anger, but let it cool into something usable. Since this is inevitable you just need to find a way with your lawyer to make his unreliability work for you.

Hi Amac, i can empathise with how annoying this is!! But just try to remember that the more examples you have of his unreliable and selfish behaviour, the better it is for you in court. I found it useful that my WH proved that he could not be trusted to pay bills directly (after he cancelled out health insurance without telling me, leaving me and the kids uninsured for 4 months) because the judge ordered that all maintenance has to come in cash to me - and that gives me much more flexibility to manage household costs then I would have had otherwise. Even the defaulting on maintenance is useful if it enables you to garnish him. It is frustrating while you wait for the legal processes to go through, but it won't be forever.

I think I threw one letter at the wall, the one which claimed 'the respondent has his own reasons for ending the marriage too'. I should have stamped on it as well; yes and had a good bonfire.

I can't even imagine how much more painful this casual rejection of the children is. He sucks and I know paper bags who would make better fathers. How lucky they are to have you!

In a weird way though, in retrospect, I'm really glad he wasnt amenable or helpful or even polite through the divorce process. What I got, and what I have is mine by right and by keeping my head, and I can feel proud of that while there is an absolute and clear cut distance between us which might not be there had he been inclined to generosity and legal remorse.

I did not feel that way while it was on going!

Slightly annoyed, the daycare jumped the gun a bit contacting me. WH made the payment in the evening when he picked up the kids. I guess, they, like everyone else, are used to me taking care of every detail of our lives so its going to be an adjustment for people to have to expect him to do things on his own. He made the 1st of the month child support payment, but still has not paid what was owed for the 15th last month. So strange. But in any case, you are right Chalk, in the end its all the better for me. Since he is still deficient I will start the garnishment process and that will make it so I am no longer at his whim.

I'm hoping that with time and more emotional distance these instances will cause less of a tizzy. In all honesty, I'm lucky enough that if WH pulls these stunts it is an annoyance for me, but I can always find a way to pay what needs to be paid and get compensation in the end. It makes me so angry now I think not because of the practical effect on my life, but that I still cannot believe that the man I married and choose to procreate with is capable of being so horrendous. I struggle with beating myself up for not knowing he had this capacity for evil in him. The more awful things he does, it seems the more angrier I get at myself for some how missing something. His bad acts are an affront to my own judgment.

Totally get this. Since the legal stuff is really the only window I have now into what WH is like (thank goodness) I'm glad what is reflected is a selfish mess, its keeps me motivated to keep pushing forward and gain as much distance as possible. If he was not the disaster he is I might think he was actually becoming a better, more self reliant person, and someone I might actually want to be with. Defiantly not the case.

Amac this stuff isn't on the curriculum. Or was it? Did you go to a class called how to be awesome in the wake of betrayal? Wouldn't surprise me.

In any case I think you can stop beating yourself up.

Thanks Indie, that's nice to hear It means alot to hear from other people who have gone through this that I'm handling it well, because only we can understand how fracturing it really is.

Im having a hard day. Our car insurance payment is due and I had a message sent to WH that he needs to pay his part to me by today, or I would take his non payment as consent to have him removed from my policy (in CA no policies can be changed once divorce is filed without consent). I was really hoping he would not pay, one less thing to bind us together, but he called the insurance company and paid them directly. This made me cry. Oh, and I have creditors calling my cell number looking for him because he is not paying his credit cards and student loans.

I feel so trapped. I want my divorce to be done, I want to really be able to move on with my life. It has been over 6 months since I filed. I know the custody and financial stuff could take a long time to be resolved but if WH had his own health insurance then I could at least get a bifurcation to no longer be married to him. But he, and his employer, are not providing any info about his employment benefits despite numerous subpoenas.

I try not to feel sorry for myself, and generally I don't, I know I am so much better off then many women who this happens to, but this sucks.

Oh honey. I was dealing with nonsense like that for three years.

It stinks and there isn't anything you can do about those bad days. It does teach you to pack in lots of good days around them and to seize the day.

When you do emerge from this mess, you won't have lost that habit, which is pretty cool.

The only time I'm at all tempted to break Plan B nowadays is right now; when I get a bill from my lawyer. I know I am completely delusional, but my urge is to write a proposal to WH to just end all this. Its very hard to swallow that I am an attorney and WH is a divorce attorney yet, I have to spend thousands of dollars and get nowhere. If WH was at all sane this should have been easy. My lawyer even said, no Judge is going to like our case because they will think we should have been able to work things out our selves.

My plan has been to wait until WH is really desperate for money, which he will be when he has to pay all the taxes he didnt from last year, and then make him a low ball offer. Unfortunately, WH will certainly ask for a tax extension, so this plan involves waiting until October (all of this will be through my attorney). But in the meantime, I have to garnish his wages and pay for my attorney to file motions to compel because WH is not complying with subpoenas.

This never ends, does it?

Writing a proposal that he then accepts is no guarantee that you will get anywhere with your WH.

My xWH didn't follow many court orders (pendente lite and parenting agreement in final divorce), I had to file contempt on him a few times and show him I was willing to take him to court over it. Post D he still did not comply with things (relating to paperwork for 401k and house) and again, had to file contempt. He filed for sole custody in retaliation. It was a nightmare. My lawyer told me several times that my ex did not "live in reality". It's just wayward fog. Many of them do this kind of thing.

Sorry you are going through this. Whatever you can do to push it along, I would try doing. I wouldn't wait for x, y or z to happen hoping it will scare him or make him more willing to negotiate. I don't think that strategy works with waywards.

Thank you, SusieQ. Did your WH comply with the divorce orders any better when he was out of the fog? It just seems, as you said, that when someone is not living in reality everything I try to do legally ends up getting nowhere because they don't care about rule and order, even when faced with potential court consequences. With every avenue it feels like I'm paying $$ to bang my head against a wall.

To avoid repeating myself I will asterisk the mantra you need:

But if you had a sane, reasonable husband * you wouldn't need a divorce at all!*

Susie is right, negotiating doesn't work, appeasement doesn't work; any plan where you are hoping he will comply does not work.

Waywards just.... don't.

In my case I just had to keep playing whack a mole, pushing for resolution and waiting for his irrational craziness to bite him instead of me.

I had possession of the house. If he wanted a share he had to play nice.

So he just went totally silent, passive and non compliant, against his own financial interests. Purely out of spite because I needed his signature to move on in life. Eventually I did it without waiting for him and he came out of the woodwork the moment I quit my job and was a student (After years of offering to buy him out the house he chooses a time when I appeared unable to raise cash. More fool him. Art of War: When strong appear weak).

It does happen eventually, even without compliance. But it takes longer to win a war against a foe than it does to conclude a negotiation with an ally. But if he was your ally .... *

The lawyers I spoke sometimes advised me to to swap from war mode to peace treaty mode. Like I could! Like I didn't want to!

It's rough, and endlessly exasperating, but in a war between a crazy general and a sane one, guess who wins?

1) Live your life while this is going on. Don't wait.
2) Expect chaos. Plan for it.
3) You'll win. Big.

I have to agree with indie, here. My WS was nowhere near as crazy as others that I've read about here, but WW's demands during the D proceedings were irrational. Her lawyer even told mine that WW was over-emotional, very indecisive, changing her mind multiple times daily. It sounds like she drove her lawyer crazy, and that he didn't like dealing with her. She seemed obsessed that she get "her fair share" and my not getting more than she thought I deserved. All I was asking for was 50/50 split of finances and assets. She stonewalled at mediation (refused to even discuss finances/assets), dragged out the D (easily doubling both of our legal fees), and took it to court. She finally agreed on the division of finances/assets the day before the final hearing. The hearing only covered alimony, tax deductions, and who would get the dog. The judge awarded a third of the alimony she was asking for, which is even less than I would have agreed to at mediation. I won on the tax deductions, and I got the dog. (her apartment didn't allow dogs, the judge was p*ssed that she even brought it up).

Her irrational decisions and behavior hurt her in the D. I paid a lot in legal fees, and I'm sure she did (more likely, her parents did). But I believe my money was well spent. My legal fees will be paid off by January, and I'll be debt free, save for the house.

So use your wayward's irrationality to your benefit, it could work out in your favor in the end!

Exact same abrra. I spent more on fees because he dragged it out but his tactics hurt him in the settlement. He also had to pay some of my fees because of delays he'd caused.

There's no way to stop them from making it dragged out and difficult. There really isn't.

I just ended up viewing the extra fees as paying for an extra IM and paying for luxury-level protection from the craziness.

Worth every penny.

I have a "forever" wayward ex H - he is not in an affair fog but his entitlement, victim mentality, and poor judgement seems to be permanently entrenched.

Yes, now he does comply with the orders but it has been a very long road with many court filings and hearings and mandatory counseling sessions.

Even though he complies with the orders, he from time to time tries to talk my son into "living full-time" with him (aka so he doesn't have to pay CS anymore) which would absolutely not work due our circumstances. I have to call him out on it every time and drag him to our parenting coordinator to set him straight. It's very confusing to my son and makes NO sense for him to pursue it, however he has tried this about 3-4 times now.

The only advice I can give you is follow through on whatever you can when he doesn't comply (contempt, etc), document (!), make sure you are following orders on your end...in addition to a DARK Plan B and excellent self care (exercise, good diet, plenty of sleep, hobbies, etc). You will make it through this. I promise!

Thanks for sharing your experience, Arrba. I'm glad to hear your money was well spent, I think I will eventually feel that way to, but so hard to stomach it when you are the process of forking it out and there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

I can't believe your WW went to hearing over the dog when she couldn't even have it! The spitefulness of the wayward is so irrational, you would think they were the ones that were betrayed.