Do you have a keylogger on his phone? Do you have access to his work email?

This is not wise.

And you should be afraid of contact w OW. She is still a very real threat to your M.

Would you write to Dr Harley, amac?

I don't think you need to kick him out but this is a huge red flag....I think it would be best to get Dr Harley's feedback.

I have webwatcher on his phone. Still trying to get the hang of it, but i can see websites accessed, words searched, photos, call log, and apps used. I have not been able to see email through it, but the emails he has on his phone are gmail and work. I have full access to his gmail. His work email is on his phone so I can access once in awhile (i'll ask to see it randomly and covertly once in awhile), I dont have separate access from that. I dont know if I could ever get that.

I ordered the VAR, will put it in his car this week.

Where should I write to Dr. Harely?

haha "i sent it to myself," hilarious! Man, ugh it really is a disadvantage when the WH finally realize who they are dealing with. I have tried to keep my information gathering as close to the vest as possible so he cant use that against me as proof of his innocence.

IDK Chalk, I dont think there has a ever been a time in my life where I could sit back and let someone else do the work with anything. I'm just not wired that way, and its kind of problematic. That doesn't mean I'm gonna make it easy for him, though. The more work I do, the more work I expect from others.

I also have this problem! But the result was that I took all WH's responsibility away and he had a totally free ride. If you get things for free without putting in the work, you don't appreciate them - and you spend the time you should have spent working on your family on other things. The devil makes work for idle hands. Also, when the dynamic is focused on you monitoring and identifying his transgressions - rather than him trying to prove there are no transgressions to find - it very easily slips into a teacher/pupil or policeman/criminal thing which I think makes it easier for waywards to tell themselves you are controlling them or restricting them a little while down the line, rather than that they are CHOOSING to enforce EPs themselves because they are committed to their marriage and they want to prove it to you.

I would be really worried about the time he spends at work when you can't monitor anything. And please don't be falsely reassured about having access to his emails. I had access to what i thought were all WH's accounts starting from 2012 (the previous time I uncovered cheating): facebook, three email accounts, skype, pin codes for phones, etc. But he just set up new email accounts, a new skype login, and an instagram using a different name and managed to push enough traffic through his previous ones that if I randomly checked it would look as though he still used them. He started "cleaning" his phones of suspicious stuff before he came home from work every day. He totally changed his lifestyle, started coming home for dinner with the kids and I every single day, only going out with the husbands of our friends on Fridays, which I thought was "safe". No suspicious calls or even any messages when he was at home, and he spent all weekend every weekend at home. He also stopped interacting with people through facebook and moved over to whatsapp where you can delete everything (although he didn't know sent images get stored in device storage). It was only when I threw him out that I discovered that he had been conducting the entire 4-year affair during the working day, that he had lied about the time his working day ended so he had a couple of hours free between 5pm and 7pm before dinner (have you heard of the French "cinq a sept"?!) and that he had been seeing her on Friday evenings, after spending a couple of hours with the guys he said he was drinking with before going to her place. He installed whatsapp on another phone and hid the app so I thought he only had whatsapp on one of his phones. After a while I stopped checking because I thought there was nothing to find. Duh! How stupid do I feel now. Bascially, you can't monitor well enough to rule out EP violations if he goes to work and uses a computer you don't have a keylogger on. And if he knows what you are monitoring, you give him an easy checklist of items he needs to maintain innocently in order to throw you off the scent - which totally undermines the whole idea. But if he is focused on PROVING to you that he hasn't done anything, it puts you in a position power - although only if you have a plan about what you are going to do when you find something that doesn't seem right. If you are susceptible to him telling you black is white, or swearing to you with big wide eyes, crying and begging you to believe him, or confusing you by telling you it would be absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for him to do anything because you are so good at monitoring him - like I was - then he will evade all of these precautions and carry on living the life he wants, while you get increasingly confused about how things seem to be fine, but you just have this niggly feeling that something is not quite right......

He could also have a different phone that he only uses at work - and leaves at work so you never see it.

One thing that might help is if you download all his contacts from his phone and email address books into an excel chart, so that you can easily verify any new numbers - and then call them to check they actually have the name they are saved as on his phone. Waywards will save female numbers under male names, and will change the names associated with a number if you get suspicious. My WH saved numbers he didn't want me to find out about as Memos in memopad on his phone rather than in contacts.

Does webwatcher give you GPS location? And does it tell you if he downloads new apps? I used it briefly but I can't remember. I think I used flexispy which was quite good. WH found out that i could monitor his GPS location but didn't know about the other stuff I could see. He then tried to download a "fake GPS" app that allows you to send a misleading location. But I saw that because flexispy shows you when they download apps.

But he also would just tell me the GPS location was wrong and that he wasn't where the GPS said he was. Or he would say he was just driving past that place and he didn't stop there, so the GPS must have just given a point location. I was not confident about how accurate the GPS was, or how it worked when someone is moving, so he introduced enough doubt into my mind that it took me much longer to clock on to what was really happening than it should have done.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

What happened to IG's suggestion that he not use the work computer and only use a personal laptop? They can put the billing software on his laptop and you move the PC out of the office.

I really REALLY do not think your H will be safe on a work computer. This is really his mess to clean up. He's the one who wanted to use the computers to conduct online affairs.

He can't give you the log in information? And then you set it up on your phone or computer? This needs to get figured out, amac.

Have you read the "False Recovery" thread?

I'm worried if you don't plug up these holes, especially given the failed poly and his history of multiple offenses, you will be headed for one.

Have you read this? False Recovery-Need voices of the experience

There is no way his firm would go for that. He is a lawyer guys, there are major issues with client confidentiality when it comes to his work computer access and email. This is not coming from him, this is from me because I know how it is for me. We dont even have direct access to our own email accounts. The administrator puts it on the selected devices for us so they have control, we dont even get passwords to it. I was able to see his work email before because I had his old iPhone and it was already on there.

Does anyone know of a software that I can put on his phone were I would be able to see it since it is a mailbox on his phone? Webwatcher isn't working that way, though it has an email function nothing shows up. I think thats the only way.

Ok, can you now tell me how while simultaneously assuming he is still a liar and a cheater and we are in false recovery I'm supposed to be working on building a good marriage? You guys need to give me something here. With all these posts you make it seem as if I might as well throw in the towel now. That is not helpful to me. Please give me a little credit for everything we have already done and been through. It's not like oh he had an affair and he apologized and I took him back with open arms. He was out for almost a year, dark Plan B for half of it. His life was SH$T. Most WS that I have seen on here did not get the kind of consequences my WH did. Does that mean he won't do it again? No, but it has to count for something since he knows firsthand what will happen if he does it again.

My divorce is still pending, and I believe he will sign the post nup, so I have a safety net.

At some point I need to put being a wife in there along with being a super spy.

Yeah I hear you, you can't conduct Shroedinger's marriage; that would be expecting too much of flesh and blood.

That's why I think Susie' s suggestion to contact Dr H is a great one. He's a mechanic who's seen every hitch and glitch and he can often tell just by the sound of the engine what the issue is.

As a psychologist he will probably have some idea why this question repeatedly tripped up your husband.

The thing is, unless you plug these holes that are being pointed out to you, you CAN'T build a good marriage. This is part of the process towards building a good marriage.

And it's mostly up to him, remember.

Yep. This.

Let�s back up a bit here... uh, suddenly we believe him because he submitted to a poly? Nope. You don�t ever believe a habitual liar. I think that he�s holding back and you should simply call his bluff. He failed the poly question. He has you running in circles to explain why? That shouldn�t be your job. If it was truly poly error (uber rare) then he should be able to clear it up with another poly. l

As a spouse to an addict, poly has been the game changer. As others have said, an addict has habits. Those die hard (ie: all of those searches as a min). Your expert Secret-Second-Lifer needs to become a habitual Come-Cleaner. This is a process and you cannot be tearing your hair out over snooping, especially with work computer issues. Yes, you should be snooping. Yes, you should contact the Harleys for more insight and direction. But poly will cut through the crap. And you need to believe the poly report!

�Dear, as soon as you pass the poly, and commit to repeated poly tests over time, at my request, we can move forward with recovery. �

Question:
Are there any instances of inappropriate personal or sexual contact or behavior which you have not disclosed to your wife?

Wow, I'm sorry that you are frustrated...but this sounds very much like you are taking this personally. Nobody is trying to attack you or make you feel bad about your recovery. We are giving you Dr Harley's advice for EPs for YOUR situation. It's that simple. You should know by now that here at MB we don't ever just pat people on the back if we see a red flag or potential issue.

You yourself have expressed concern about how you would ever recover with your H given his access to computer at work - and you were told this is something that would need to get figured out. This is something that has come up early and more than once in the thread so to be completely honest, I'm surprised at your tone, here.


A WS who was thrown out while the BS went to Plan B is not a reason to not close up loopholes in EPs. That implies that the affair was not addiction or that the WS has willpower to not slide back into bad habits if there are not appropriate EPs. That is not something that Dr Harley has said (as far as I know) A post-nup is also not something that is going to keep you safe from a WS who is determined to continue his secret second life.

It's all about EPs and transparency - a WS who lives a life where having an affair is impossible. Even more so for a multiple offender. I know it frustrates you to hear that - but that's the truth and there is no way around it.

Here, on page 7 shortly after you arrived at MB:

This is where I am frustrated. I feel like I am being hammered with things I already know. Yes its a red flag, yes its a problem, yes yes yes.

So, again, because I cannot put anything on his work computer (which is monitored by admin and I think the chances of him using for his SSL are very low, it would be easier to get a burner phone, another tablet etc. before using that) I throw in the towel?

I need advice on how to work with the circumstances I have, not continually being blasted with the obvious problems that I have always been, and am still, fully aware of. Please don't take my frustration as contempt. I am SO grateful for you SusieQ, and all the other posters. I dont think I would be as mentally healthy today as I am without it.

To me, I think the VAR will help alot. I dont see how he could entirely conduct a SSL on a work computer and not have it spill into outside of his physical office.

I think I may need some clarification on things. What parts of all this monitoring should WH be involved in and know about? To me alot of this is geared toward CATCHING him in an affair. But in order for that to be effective it must be covert. But putting the spyware on this phone, monitoring all his devices, etc. does nothing to PREVENT an affair, unless he knows about them and that acts as a deterrent. What parts should be be involved in to help with PREVENTION?

I plan on emailing Dr. Harely. I just feel like its gonna take some time to write it to explain everything.

Knowing about spyware does nothing to prevent an affair. It just allows the WS to circumvent the known spy method. A billy goat can work around that. Prevention is achieved by eliminating any dark holes in his lifestyle, which makes it impossible for him to cheat.

Spyware, etc, is just double insurance so you can catch him slipping up so you can put a stop to it early. But spyware he knows about is a) worthless and b) does nothing to prevent an affair