You also have serious problems with intimacy. For example, you try to get her to do sexual things she is not comfortable with. That is a way to completely turn off a woman and cause a sexual aversion. The fact that she doesn't want you to touch her tells me she has a serious sexual aversion TO YOU. In order to enjoy sex, you need to focus on things she enjoys or you shouldn't do it. Sex has to be enjoyable for both, not just one person.

The other big issue is your porn addiction. That is just as damaging as her sexual aversion and pretty much ensures you will NEVER have a normal sexual relationship with any woman.

bingo!!!

Before everyone jumps on the porn bandwagon and tries defending her and think I'm more about the sex than her infidelity, these boards don't lend towards alot of description and when I do, people gloss over it...

When we first got married there was no porn at all, that came much later. I begged her for us to get counseling and she refused. I threw everything in there including the kitchen sink, pastoral, male christian, female christian, support groups etc and she flat out said she wasn't interested. She didn't want me going either because that would be embarrasing to her and put pressure on her. She said that having violent reactions to touching or breathing on her neck was normal and normalized everything else that it was quite normal not to ever try any position than missionary and not to let your husband touch your body. As a man you're darned if you do and darned if you don't. I told her that God gave us sexual desires and if they aren't allowed to come out through their proper channels that they will rise up in sinful areas. So yes, she got with a child molester and got involved in a "swinger's" lifestyle and I got into porn. I own the porn addiciton, I didn't have to go that route.

The root of my anger towards her is that she refused to see her violent responses to touch as abnormal and refused to get help about it. You can coddle her and say she was a victim or that I should have done this or that but at the end of the day she has individual responsiblity, she refused to get help when begged and she went from victim to abuser in attempting to get illicit photos of a minor for a child molester. It was all about me for the first 10 years to provide her a safe space and as little pressure as humanly possible to perform the most basic functions of foreplay. She stopped cheating but as many of you have correctly stated, the underlying causes have not been resolved.


I recognize that the onus is generally on the man to provide a safe space, romantic and gentle for her to be willing to step out and feel safe to open up. That went out the window with her filthy behavior that directly placed my children in danger with a child molester. Where's her personal responsiblity to reach out and seek help. She's not on this or other sites or calling counselors... But that's her motus operanda, pretend there's nothing wrong and then claim forgetfullness. The world is fine to her right now asking me for another child and to purchase a home instead of rent. Its a cold day in hell before I purposefully put myself out there on extending my comitment to her untill I see her do some real steps forward here. Granted I'm alot more gentle at the phrasing to her. I'm at the point of giving her an ultimatum of you will try this counseling or I'm kicking your but out. I have enough electronic evidence and her confessing to being in a 2 year relationship with a 2x convicted child molester, allowing him into our home alone with her and my children, he asked her if my daughter was out of bounds and wanted to teach my son how to hunt for women and that she tried to get illicit photos of a minor. You can try to lead a donkey but in the end, they're going to go where they're going to go. I have lost respect for her because she refused to trust me, her pastor and her own licensed therapist that she selected and went to that said she had a sexual addictions problem and needed intensive therapy with emphasis on adults with child sexual trauma.

The crux of the problem is she doesn't want to recognize that there's a problem to get the help yet she's just fine with pretending everything is okay and move forward without resolving the issues that caused the infidelity (such a light word compared to what she did). If it were my brother or other extended family member, I could say yup, that's messed up, oh well. But I can't do that here, she's the mother of my children and my wife so we're all screwed if she doesn't do anything about it. I haven't always been this harsh and it really wasn't till after d-day of her cheating. Before, I had never even cussed in front of her.

I usually think about what I have to say and its so easy on these boards just to post and to spew pain and really just venom of bitterness...

So to try to keep things positive in my own head I'll rephrase in the form of a question rather than complaint:

How do you enact this program if you only have one willing participant or the one doesn't believe there's a problem to take it seriously enough?

h3ll0, that is the scenario we almost always see here. Just one willing participant, and the other is reluctant. Usually if there are two willing participants they just follow the program and restore love in their marriage. Usually the reason people have to post here is their spouse isn't interested.

So I've had that in mind the entire time I've been posting to you.

Have you emailed Dr. Harley, yet?

Understood. And I'm sure you understand that if you do that it will probably lead to divorce, not marital recovery.

Would you like to know how to get this plan working in your marriage?

Markos did it.
Other men on this site did it.
Success depends upon whether you are willing to follow a program of recovery or not.

One of the biggest problems I see in your marriage is that neither of you followed a program of recovery. As a result, your marriage is worse now than it was pre-affair.

Except you blame her.

That is one of the most disrespectful and demanding things I've read on this board, and we have dealt with some pretty bitter husbands.

Most women would not be sexually attracted to a man who talked this way.

You can turn this around, but you've got a lot of learning to do. Success will hinge on your willingness to learn.

Then you might as well file for divorce. Recovery is impossible if you are unwilling to protect her in the most basic of ways.

Prisca, my wife has never let ANY MAN kiss her on the lips with any meaning to it even the many cheaters. She has never let any man "accidentally" breathe on her neck without swift retribution of an elbow jab or push away. She was engaged to a man before me and he had the same things. Before him, she never voluntarily engaged in intimacy because of the abuse. Her previous fiance according to her words was a good man who was patient and gentle to her and she still wouldn't do that stuff with him. She ran off on him come to find out later after talking to him and then she later told the truth many years later. She was scared to be intimately involved and left him. Well the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, she ran off on me to many other men but couldn't leave because I have the children.

I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO KISS MY WIFE! I'm not a chicken giving little bird pecks thinkning that's intimate. I'm also not trying to get into her face and perform tonselectomy. This really is serious and not soemthing that any healthy red blooded man can overlook without alot of support. She doesn't want to? Well heck, I don't always want to go to work but I do every time because I know that I must meet my family's needs. There are limits to, "not feeling like it." There's alot she felt like doing such as ....(names of many men).... And it was uncomfortable for her to quit,,, she didn't want to quit. Well now she doesn't feel like doing what's right... and its not going to be comfortable but you have to get on the track to ride the train.

Regarding the porn, You are spot on about the porn and what the impacts are and will be. I've installed accountability software but keeps uninstalling itself on my particular brand phone so I'm getting a different phone. If that doesn't work, I'll be moving to the flip phone. The problem is, I'm a penetration tester for the gov't. Its very hard to stop myself. I told my pastor right away and am in counseling with him but it isn't as fast or as effective as I need. The anger doesn't help with it either. I need her support and accountability for some of this and it is very hard to get her to stay on it with me (not as the babysitter) but as the accountability partner. She agreed with our pastor that she could do that but hasn't been. Not blaming her for that, this is my problem, just telling you were I'm at with this right now.


Regarding contacting Dr Harley, I see only an email address for his wife to email questions and then a phone number to dial during the radio show and you may or may not be selected. I do not see any options to hire his services for a private phone call. It is easy to place this stuff on an "anonymous" blog rather than speak on a rebroadcasted national podcast. Am I missing anything with this?

It's not a 'who is to blame' issue, its a romantic love issue. And romantic love, with its accompanying passion, can be created by just one person. In fact, that is the typical scenario we see here.

It's called plan A. Meeting the needs of the spouse with no thoughts of getting your own needs met. The idea is to fill her lovebank, because without a full lovebank she cannot honestly or sincerely meet your needs. The first step (and even two willing people without problems would be in trouble if they did not take this step) is avoiding lovebusters. They are:
1) Angry outbursts. (This includes moodiness and sulkiness and silent treatment. ESPECIALLY moodiness related to sexual disappointments. When you make complaints, be pleasant)
2) Disrespectful judgements (Like, trying to lecture her into bed via counselling and convince her she's defective? Stop doing that)
3) Selfish demands (Sex is now something only for her and can be left off the table indefinitely ESPECIALLY talk of specific sexual acts. Stop treating a sex act like a collectible card she's too mean to give you).
4) Annoying habits/independent behaviour: Stuff you know bugs her. Doing your own thng in terms of ... well definitely porn.

I've been the higher sex drive partner in a marriage where there was a refusal to own the problem, so I'm sympathetic. I think your response was human and natural and panicked. ..but wrong. Our spouses dont owe us sex and they certainly dont owe us a shame dance where their sex drives are described as abnormal.

Most importantly the panic response doesn't work. Nobody has ever been lectured, shamed or coerced into lust. However Plan A DOES. Husbands whose wives had full blown sexual aversions learned how to create the exactly right environment for passion.

I just want to add, that I do think a spouse has a responsibility to join in 'how shall we meet both our needs' discussions. Her embarrassment and inactivity was a problem...a nut sized problem that would have opened out of its shell with time and patience, but yeah you're right it was a failure to act.

But it wasn't a lovebuster, while I think you used several. You've been using a hammer to crack a nut, and all youre going to be left with is nut dust.

Annnnd how's that been working for you?

You see, here's the thing. We've got a plan here that will lead to both you and your wife having an enjoyable sexual experience together. But it won't work if you don't follow it. And it won't work if you continue with anger, disrespect, and demands. What you have done, as has already been pointed out to you, is create a sexual aversion in your wife TOWARDS YOU.

That is the correct email address. You can talk to him, for free.
Many people, including myself, make up fake names when writing in to protect privacy. They don't need your real name.

I think you might have missed a lot of what we posted above. I suggest you reread and make yourself a todo list.

Definitely go on the Marriage Builders radio show - send Dr. Harley an email and talk with him about your situation on the show. You can do that anonymously. mbradio@marriagebuilders.com You'll get the best professional advice you could possibly get.

Not sure where you saw a phone number, but there's no number to dial into the show.

And her inability to act now doesn't mean this can't be fixed.

And while you're at it, if you really want to stay married and fix this, start listening to the show daily so you can start learning what to do in situations where one spouse doesn't want to fix the marriage.

You're right, I am now using a hammer, maybe even a sledgehammer but she just got done a long term affair with a child molester. I don't want to rehash the description because it makes me physically angry. IF she doesn't agree to therapy, the only recourse I can see is to separate from her. I cannot risk her doing this again and that is why I can't take no for an answer. I've worked very hard at giving her ultimatums but I don't know how much of this I can keep going. My boss has been gracious and allowing me as a fed to work 100% from home to be able to be around my children. This has to come to a head and I don't see the win win happening unless she agrees. This will be a loose loose loose. God forbid if she ended up getting even partial custody and hookup with another child molester. I daily battle with how much am I willing to put up with to maintain the hope of keeping my family together and actually more than that, heal.

I'm not normally an angry person and this is eating me from the inside out. I'm bleeding over eveything I touch with hurt. Many of you have rightfully said that too will be a detriment to reconciation. I wish I didn't care so much about my family so I could preserve self and just ditch.

Regarding the suggestion to take SRIs, I found out that child molester raped a girl 18 or 19 year old in our church and it was rugswept. She was blamed for being in the building alone with him but he was hired by the pastor to do work while she was there. Long story short, the father confessed this and had audio recording his daughter made begging the man to stop. Come to find out, this man had a history of this behavior and churches would just sweep it under the rug so they wouldn't have a scandal. I went over to the man's house to kill him but he skipped town. So I went to counseling realizing I could be sitting in a jail cell. What would a man do to stop a predator? To this day, I don't think it would be morally wrong to protect other girls from this predator but it is not socially acceptable. I told the CPT in charge of investigations about it and my wife's actions and the predator. He said audio recordings wasn't enough evidence to charge my wife unless she admitted to them and she refused to talk to them. The police captian told me he was in his 4th marriage and all four of his previous wives cheated on him. He walked in on 2 and put a gun to the male cheater's heads both times. People may find this paragraph disturbing... I find it more disturbing that a man is allowed to commit these attrocities against young girls and get away with it. What would a bear do if you threaten her cubs? The Bible even warns that... and that is a God given natural response to a legitimate repeated threat to your children.

Rehashing her childhood will not "fix" her or save your marriage. It will not prevent her from having another affair.

Would you like to know how to prevent another affair? Would you like to know how to fix your sexual life?

Regarding the phone number:

To schedule an appointment with Steve Harley, please call (651)762-8570 or e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com). If you leave a message or email your request, we will respond within one business day.

Appointments may be scheduled as early as 5:45am Central Time (GMT -06:00).

All this and you have no empathy for the sexual abuse your wife suffered as a child?
You would prefer that she just do the sexual things you want, and by golly, she'd better enjoy it?
And you don't see how damaging that kind of demand is to her?