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I am curious to get a different perspective, and appreciate any time or help you can offer.

One big difference between the sites is the number of people here who say to expose the affair. While I have done that, I am no longer looking to "tell" on her. My in laws definitely don't know the extent of what she is doing, and I have not spoken with them in a few weeks. Before a few weeks ago, I talked to them several times a week, in person and on the phone. My WW is trying hard to get them "on her side".

Welcome to MB and sorry for what has brought you here. First thing you will find here at MB that is different from those other sites is that there is a plan here. Dr. Harley has a proven track record for saving marriages.

You say you have exposed. Who all have you exposed to? Who is the OM?

I have exposed to my her sister, mother, father, some of my friends, some of my family, one of her friends. But I didn't do it the way this board recommends, I just found this board. She works under the table, nannying. I don't see how I expose further without seeming super controlling over the situation.

The OM is an old friend from high school, they may have dated briefly. Exposing to his family wouldn't do anything, he lives at his parents house, where she has gone to stay several times. They are hoosier to the core, and obviously they don't care.

She tried, just last week, to tell me to coerce my friend into not telling anyone else. In April, she tried manipulating me into not telling anyone.

I know this site will be different, I am interested in hearing the different take. Thanks!

Just want to say I too came from that site, had read the books, even tried coaching, but nothing was working.
I found this site read a ton of posts and started reading Surviving An Affair. I jumped in, a little hesitantly at first but take the advice here. Gather all your evidence as fast as you can and expose to everyone on your side, hers and OM. Leave no one out. Do this fast though the longer it goes on the worse it is for you.

I dunno, it just seems to create the pursuit/distancer relationship again. It seems like the more I press her, the more she will resist. Telling everyone seems like definite pressure. If she doesn't want to be in the marriage, I cannot force her. So help me out everyone!

How'd that work out for you?

You need to expose on OM�s side. Just because he lives with his parents doesn�t mean they are supporting his affair. He could have lied to his parents and said she was already divorced.

Has anyone from your family or her family said anything to her?

Moderators note: we have removed links to the other website. Please don't post links to websites that are not supported by this forum. Thank you

Hi overtherainbow, welcome to Marriage Builders. Just so you know, the advice we give here is not our personal opinions, but the views of the founder and clinical psychologist, Dr Bill Harley. I have been on this forum every day for 17 years and am here to tell you that almost every recovered marriage in that time attributes it to exposure. Exposure is the most powerful weapon against infidelity. The reason is because affairs thrive on secrecy. Exposure is like bringing a crowd of people into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It ruins the high! It is the same with infidelity. The more people who know, the better. It sounds like you might have a little trickle, trickle, trickle exposure, which is very ineffective. if you want to save your marriage, you need to take this much more seriously.

I suggest you read the link in my signature for Dr Harley's recommendations and best practices. Don't cut corners, my friend. All you do by cutting corners is cut your odds of success.

You can read through my thread on this page. My wife and I had barely spoken in 3 months and she had been all but out the door. I exposed the affair fully and within a couple days she was talking (or rather yelling) either way we're communicating now with what looks like a possibility of staying together and building a better marriage.
How that happens is why I'm still here. I'm not out of the weeds yet and still have a lot of work to do, not just on her and us but on myself.
Either way since listening to the senior members here and reading SAA and reading through tons of posts I see more results and something actually happening.

I read almost all of that today, thank you for posting, Melody Lane.

This is what I am trying to understand: it just seems to create the pursuit/distancer relationship again. It seems like the more I press her, the more she will resist. Telling everyone seems like definite pressure. If she doesn't want to be in the marriage, I cannot force her. So help me out everyone!

Exposure puts pressure on the affair. If it would decay in time anyway, it speeds up the process. Affairs and openness don't go well together. If you don't expose and wait for the affair to end (or not), you will suffer longer. You want to minimize damage to you and your marriage, exposure is critical for that.

What exposure does is hasten the death of the affair. We are thinking long term, you are thinking very short term.

We are not advising that you "press her;" we are advising you to expose the affair, which hurts it. We never told you to "force her" into a marriage, that is impossible. I think you are drawing incorrect conclusions about the advise based on your own personal biases. My suggestion would be to put aside your own ideas and keep an open mind.

By not exposing, you are enabling the affair because affairs thrive on secrecy. It is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler. Keeping the secret helps NO ONE in any way.

Yes, this is PRESSURE. It is your job to put MAXIMUM pressure on the affair. A complacent approach to infidelity will get you nowhere and if/when the affair ever ends and your wife sobers up, she will not remember your complacence fondly. She will be grateful that you fought for her.

I think my mind is open, I'm asking for everyone here's perspective and I appreciate your response. I didn't expect to get the same perspective I had been getting.

If you haven't seen it yet, I have exposed it to several people, but not using y'alls method - I just found the site today. She has been largely avoiding her folks the last 3 months. We used to see them 1-3 days per week. No she doesn't see them 1-3 per month and they aren't happy about it.

Here is the last few days of what's been going on. The holiday weekend created extra pressure for her b/c of our and her family's traditions for them. I saw this coming.

Just so you know, the forum is committed to helping posters with Dr Harley's perspective. We came here because we wrecked our marriages and it was his program that saved our marriages. So, the advice that we give comes from his expertise and not our own personal opinions. [I sell soft drinks, after all]


Yes, I saw this. We call this a "trickle exposure." My suggestion is to avoid posting a play by play and focus on the PLAN. It gives you the best chance at saving your marriage if you have the ability to follow a plan!

The plan is just to out the affair to as many people as possible? And then whether the $$#@storm that WW will obviously throw? Then hope she wants to come back to the marraige?

I understand the perspective was developed from Dr Harley, I read quite a bit on here today.

This is the purpose for exposure, from the exposure 101 thread and the exposure article:

The plan is to wreck the affair by exposing it. In order for exposure to be effective, it needs to as strategic and comprehensive as possible. If you have a terrible disease, do you just take a little trickle of medicine or do you take the necessary dose that will hopefully cure the disease. Exposure is THERAPEUTIC, don't you want the benefits of exposure?

Let me put this another way. Exposure is the most likely way to kill the affair. She is more likely to want to recover the marriage if the affair is over.


Not sure what this has to do with anything. Our goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wife's anger at any cost. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure, it can't survive an affair. If your goal is to just avoid her anger at all cost, then you will end up divorced, I promise you. You need to put aside your fear of her anger, if you expect to make it.


good!

I'd love to wreck the affair and more...I feel like that is the bad part of me though. I love to be right and make other wrongs known.

WW doesn't want me talking about it either. Just the other night she was asking me who all I've told about it. I would not tell her, because it's none of my business. If she doesn't like how it sounds or looks, she could always not do it.

I have been working on myself, and getting stronger and making sure I'm the person I want to be. This just seems like a regression (for me) into controlling, manipulative behaviors. I know what this site is about, and I came her for y'alls opinion so please don't take offense.

I am past the point of worrying about aggravating my WW. I have been back in the master bed for 3 weeks now. She doesn't like, wakes me up, tries to start a fight, throws her fit. I am strong, not engaging in a fight, and not giving up my ground. I'm also well aware of her lies and manipulative behavior. I am not trying to fix anything for her and I am not there for her 24/7 or during work hours anymore.

Sometimes it takes a while to truly understand something, or to hear it another way, or at the right time. I am still listening and appreciate everyone's posts a lot.

That's...ok. Affairs aren't planned, wanted, helpful things deserving of respect or privacy. Think of them more as addictions that people fall into and the exposure as an intervention.

If there's nothing wrong with it, then what's wrong with people knowing?

Wrecking the affair is pre-requisite for saving the marriage.
The affair is a terrible and hurtful thing, for both of you actually.
If my wife's affair went any longer than it did we would be divorced, as the love bank drains fast once it starts draining...
If you really want to save your marriage you need to act while you still love her enough to try, believe me, there is a time you will not feel like trying reconcile if you let the love bank run dry, and there is a lot of work to be done.
Don't think of keeping quiet as keeping her secret, or protecting her, think of it as cooperating with the affair partner to help them take your wife and destroy your marriage.

Have you listened to the radio show? Please listen every day, it will help you with the attitude change you are looking for. Your interactions with her should have purpose and make love bank deposits, not comparing her to her Dad when that is a love buster.

You mention not wanting to be manipulative anymore. The radio show will teach you daily how to replace that old mindset and behavior with respect and negotiation. Exposure is the first step and meanwhile you can get the attitude change you need to be a real partner she can fall back in love with. Also you want to hear the same things again for reinforcement to sink in, it will give you that too. Then your time with the posters here you can focus on strategy and planning.

I have not been able to find the radio show, how do you find it?

Here's some updates for you all, it is a lot but maybe you can help:

5/31/18
Talked to WW on phone around 7 PM, maybe I shouldn't have. First thing, she asks "Where are you"? I said "hanging out". I use this response and the "nothing/nowhere" response as casually as if someone had asked me "what's up".

She wanted to know if I'd move a trailer, I had already agreed so I confirmed I would.

Got home from GAL, was reading and went out to eat w/ my sis. Shower, bed, WW is folding laundry in MB, I get in bed and decide to fold a couple things too. She put some of my clothes away actually. She asks "where are you going out so late". I reply just with friends. She didn't say anything about me getting in bed and she got her pillows out of the other bedroom.

Eventually, kind of late, about an 1.5 hours after I fell asleep she moved to the front bedroom. She was disturbed by a late night notification on my phone, I could feel her turn when it buzzed.

6/1/18
WW really needed to call me 3 times in a row to find... air mattress. Told her it's not at home, she informs me her sister's engagement party is tomorrow and that it's going to be really hard for her. Phone call highlights:

--said she never stopped being open with me...while we were married (we still are), even though I hurt her and threw her heart around
-questioned why I had air mattress at the lake, asked how many people, which friends, did I take a girl, was one of my sister's friends there (she views this friend as a threat); says she doesn't care if that girl was there (which is obviously why you brought it up)
-she gets mad that I won't answer, I tell her I'm confused why this matters
-I tell her I'm going to get going several times, she extends conversation several times, asking "can we talk for just a minute"?
-says "this seems like it is really easy for you". I'm just curious. I tell her it's not with a story from my past. She tells me that it is hard for, b/c it's "what you're used to", and it's weird when you're not doing what you're used to.
-a lot of smalltalk
-I go to end conversation a 3rd time, she asks if I've told her parents about her affair. Said she'd rather them not know.
-I asks If I blame her for "that" (her affair), says "do you think I'm bad"? She says she thinks it "looks bad, but what else was I supposed to do"? I just validated this, maybe I was wrong.
-was worried that I was going to try to "mess her up bc of it", and got defensive when I don't quickly respond. Cried and said "I don't want to be screwed over". "I don't know if you're not thinking about me at all". Then she starts bawling (crying).

Then we met in person at a Panera, here's the highlights:
-WW cried a lot, she is sad, how is this "happening to her"?
-WW hates me but loves/cares about me, but doesn't love me
-WW won't have anywhere to live, won't be able to get a loan for anything
-WW says this is very hard
-WW stated (again) that I am doing fine on my own. I informed her that I have feelings too but that I am dealing with them, reading, getting help, talking to people.
-Her mom is mad at her b/c her uncles helped us with a lot of work (for free) and they will be at the party tomorrow
-asked who I've told about her affair. I informed her that she's in a relationship w/ someone else so we aren't freely exchanging info
-we hugged once inside, she initiated a hug before we left
-I validated a lot of feelings, asked her questions about them
-she reiterated before she left that it's going to be hard to be around family tomorrow, so I told her "why don't you just tell them"?
-mad at my friend for discussing her affair with someone else
-wants to know what my mom, dad, and sister all think/say about her/the situation
-stated how it's hard b/c she "doesn't believe in divorce" and she "meant her vows to love me" but that she doesn't love me right now...

6/3/18 to morning of 6/4/18

Last night she woke me up. Lots of floppy hand movements leg movements and making noise playing on her phone loudly. After it woke me up I just tried to go back to sleep but then she was tapping on me a couple of times trying to give me to wake up. Then she asked me a couple of times to hold her and I responded why the first time, she said she's sad. So I said that [censored] and she moaned and whined a couple of things. Then she asked again if I would hold her and I said I don't know. Then I didn't end up doing it. She's sad b/c of our anniversary she says. Ok...

One of the time she woke me up she asked me if we can talk but I said no it's late I'm going to bed. So she says well just a couple of minutes? So I didn't respond she says please couple more times. I go to fall back asleep and she goes back into the breathing loudly and moving around all the time routine.

Then this morning she wakes up early before me and starts doing that again making noise moving around. At one point she even moved closer to me in bed I'm like what the hell. So I decide to just get up she stopped me and asked me for a hug I said I don't know (this is my way of saying "No", if you can't tell). And I tried to walk out the door before she asked again and I told her I don't know. Then I'm about to leave and she sound me to hang on for a second to talk and she freaks out cuz she thinks I'm leaving when I was actually just going to get something out of the car. So I come back inside she tells me how she's sad but again but doesn't want my pity. Okay.

Then she asked me if I want to hang out and go to the pool tonight and I don't respond immediately so she gets mad and and says it's okay don't worry about it. So I told her I won't be in a part-time relationship. I asked her then what tomorrow then I go back to not talking to you? And she says well you want me to decide if I'm going to be with you today. So I just say no I'm just telling you what I won't do. And then I go to leave and she asked for another hug. I told her she can hug me and she came over and gave me a hug and I just kind of gave her a little bit of a hug, only one arm, not a good one back after she hugged me and cried.

Now today she asks again about going to the pool and getting dinner. I agreed, but I'm very skeptical.

6/4/18 evening

She was asking where I go and who I'm with. I stuck with friends for my answer.
She asked if I was hanging out with a girl.
She asked if I talked to my best man a lot about our situation. I guess she thinks thats who I'd talk to the most but it hasn't been.
She asked me if I told anyone about us going out tonight, I said no and she said she told her sister and one friend she was going out with me.
She got a new phone and we went to the att store.She was kinda being rude at the cell phone store .
She played on the new phone a lot when we got home so I turned on the TV and fell asleep. Seems like she was on her phone a lot, but maybe that was planned distraction for the situation.
She asked me if it was weird with this being our anniversary. I laughed and said yes.
She asked me about wearing my ring last night, which I thought was strange. Asked when I stopped wearing it, she hasn't worn hers in forever, except to work.
We played the accidentally touching each other game. She's sleeping pretty lightly and so am I bc I woke up a few times and she was awake each time. Or maybe she woke first I'm not sure.
She played the obnoxious phone noises and rustling in bed game again, it woke me up again about 30 min after falling asleep but eh, the TV was still on anyways.

Wasn't bad, wasn't great overall. I thanked her last night for asking me and we hugged this morning.
I'm still skeptical.

6/5/18

I was skeptical on Monday. I even said (and maybe this was too much) to WW "I don't want to go out with you and then you're gone the next night". Which is 100% true about how I feel.

Well, as feared and almost expected, she fled back to OM's place last night. I want to go no contact for a while, definitely need to get back to the good habits of no pursuit, no long convos, and working on myself.

I'm thinking about staying away from home the next few nights but maybe that's too much GAL and not enough stability. I'll be out of town this weekend anyways.

WW is lying hardcore. I told my sister that WW said she was going swimming with Friend 1. My sister said "they put a snapchat of them at a pool". Well, WW was trying to support her story but I know where they really where - the OM's pool (apt complex). WW was deceitful, tried to make her story to me sound good but left out the obvious, wrong part. And she told me where she was going, I didn't ask.

Over, I'm on my phone and having trouble trying to post a link, but if you would scroll up to the top of your screen the link is there. I know you mean well with not wanting to share too much information and all but that is the opposite of the honesty and openness you will develop following this program. Honestly I think this program is the best shot you have at saving your marriage and encourage you to write Dr. Harley because every time I read your posts I am cringing the whole time. It's a totally different mindset and attitude of fighting for your marriage and I believe you and your wife would respect yourself a lot more than "I don't know " when your wife is asking you direct questions.

overtherainbow1, did you have a question for the posters about the Marriage Builders program? It doesn't appear as if you are taking any of the advice to use these steps. If you aren't going to use the program, we will lock the thread. The purpose of the forum is to help others use this program, not to blog about personal plans that are not endorsed by Marriage Builders.

Over, it is difficult to read your posts because you seem to have a lot to work with here. Your wife is practically begging for your attention and for you to fight for her. If you implemented a Plan A, I think your marriage is very salvageable. But acting in this aloof and distant manner, even giving the impression you are seeing someone else (are you?) , is going to push her further away, just as it pushes any woman away with or without an affair. Is your goal to push her away?

Thanks, I don't know how I missed that. I listened to some of his youtube stuff yesterday.

Can you clarify your last sentence? I didn't fully understand it.

Sorry if my posts are difficult to read, so I thank you for responding through that difficulty.

I'm definitely not seeing anyone. Two wrongs don't make a right IMO. She has been looking for more attention frim me, I agree with you there.

I need to reread "Plan A".

My goal is not to push her away, but working on myself and not being there for her like I would have been a year ago has drawn her back over the last month. Or maybe it's something else, bc I truly don't know.

I'm still learning and trying to figure out my crazy life here, so thank you for responding.

Again, Plan A/MB does not work without exposure.

A poster above told you "Wrecking the affair is a prerequisite for saving your marriage." 100% true. I noticed you did not respond or acknowledge that post.

"Working on myself and not being there for her" - this is not Plan A or MB.

She is not drawn back to the marriage if she has not commited to ending her affair and taking steps to never see or talk to the OM again, btw.

What is your question about Marriage Builders, overtherainbow?

Overtherainbow, how is exposure going? That is probably the most critical first step towards recovery and you seem to be glossing over that advice. Instead of blogging about day to day events, can you tell us your progress in following the advice?

She doesn't work a regular job, she is a nanny. No email to go to. I don't know where the OM works. His family knows, so does WW's. I am looking to get a face to face this week with the in laws, but my FIL is out of town so maybe later this week.

Where do you suggest I go from here?

Figured I'd post a little something here.

I looked in the spyware forum, didn't see much of use there. Am I looking in the wrong spot or what do you use to monitor phones? What about cameras in the house?

I've been reading CYK's thread, and trying to find other success stories in here too. I'd like to reconcile with my W, above all else.

Have you hit each of these targets using the methods described?

How did they react when you exposed?