In honestly think I should just plan to move on.

This is beyond humiliating. I think he is up to something, I just can’t help it. He wants to keep his own house and me.

Admittedly what woman would put up with me only seeing him a couple of nights in the week as he has been with me every weekend for the last 12 weeks.

It’s just weird.

I just don’t want to do it anymore.

BF coming over in the morning to take DD to school. Which by the way is not part of the schedule. I am trying the kind, respectful ect....

I cannot believe I am putting effort into this guy.

Such mixed emotions. I was feeling high after the radio session now I am crashing.

Melody Lane

Are you there? You have not posted since I crashed on Plan B.

Any insight on alchoholics??

I don’t want to be in this situation anymore. I want to move on.

It’s excruciating utter rejection and has been this way for 2 years.

I need to get a hold of my emotions - I am letting it rule my thinking.

I go down this destructive path of thinking he doesn't want me and focus on that.

BF came to pick DD up this morning to take her to school. He came in the house and stayed for 30 minutes chatting mostly to me. He looked awful, I asked him if he was ok? He said that when he lost his phone he had lost of all of his contacts, important work info ect... He said everything is going wrong at the moment, everything is such a mess and looked close to tears. I gave him a hug and he left. He has always been disorganised and losing things all the time, its one of the things that use to drive me mad when we were together.

He still hasn't suggested we talk. I guess he is fighting his feelings. He knows how I feel I suggested talking to him last week. He knows the door is open.

I acted as Dr Harley said, calm, kind and respectful.

HI MB Peeps

Wow what a roller coaster. I got in such a state about how things were that I emailed Joyce Harley and described the situation. That BF had not made any effort to talk to me or spend time with me since the fall out last week. I have told him several times that we need to talk and he has made no attempt.

Joyce emailed straight back and said I should go into Plan B. What a relief! I was really struggling being back in situation where he was blowing hot and cold and had not made any attempt to sort things out.

He came to drop of DD from school, took his shoes off and came in the house and sat on the couch. Bearing in mind I haven't told him that I dont want anymore contact with him. I said DS is ready for football, BF said I don't need to go yet!! I told him that I had packed a bag for DS to stay at his house tonight and he could home school him at his house tomorrow. I even offered to pick DS up from his house tomorrow afternoon (this made me chuckle as previously I have refused to even go there as I found it too distressing). BF looked shocked and surprised. Then BF said, I thought we could all go to the toy shop on Saturday after the sports morning, I said but thats not part of the schedule, we need to stick to the schedule? Then BF said ofcourse, then looked really sad and then suggested that we could go Friday?? He is not getting the message. I didnt want to get into the details in front of the children.

I feel so much better now, taking back the control. I am dark Plan B and planning to move on. IN fact I am actually looking forward to moving on.

When he came round tonight, I looked at him in a diffferent way. I am not sure that I even want him anymore. I had no admiration for him, not attraction for him.

Funny how I get more attention from him when I am in Plan B - what the hell is that all about?

Let the darkness begin and my healing start.

Oh and if anyone wants to listen to the radio show - I can email it to them.

Thanks for being here. Sorry I am such a nutcase.

So here I am in Plan B.

Already the requests have come through from the IM on changes to the kids schedule. It’s like as soon as he can’t have me tries to contact me more.

DS starts his new school tomorrow and BF wants to pick him up from school. No problem. I am sad about our situation it should be such an exciting family occasion.

I am in lots of pain which I am trying to self meditate. I am also trying to move myself into the train of thought why on earth would you want to be around someone who mistreats you this way? Dr Harley spoke a lot about thoughtlessness and making decisions without considering the impact on your spouse/partner.

We spoke last week about us having a talk. BF has had so much opportunity to do that. He made no attempt. I really don’t understand the guy he is so confusing. He hates plan b, hates not seeing his children all the time yet has not tried to talk with me. He could see how much pain I was in last week.

If only he hadn’t moved somewhere so public either. He has moved to a really busy area where he bumps into people all the time. Mostly my friends. He has brought so much shame on our family. I am so embarrassed.

Slowly starting to check out. I am tired of being mistreated. I have a wonderful friend who has been helping me through the last few months. Her and her husband are friends with us both. She has been really positive about BF coming back, then after witnessing the way he has been has said you deserve so much better. My husband would never be unkind to me.

Anyone out there?

I am bouncing around all over the place.

I need to GET HAPPY. I am free. I don’t have someone who gives me the silent treatment for weeks for raising an issue with them.

I really need to be more upbeat.

Let someone else deal with him?

Things I put up with to remind me;

Silent treatment for weeks
Lack of commitment
Weekly hangovers
Never been good enough
Rage
Name calling
Moods
Jealousy
Accused of having affairs
Nothing nice to say about me....ever
Playing the victim
Making mean jokes about me in front of others
No affection unless it’s for SF
Rolling over in bed and not even saying goodnight


I just found from my mother that when he dropped the children off to her once he said to my step dad “thank god that’s over 5 years of hell with that little minx”.

Comeon CoolB do you like being abused?

Are you really finished with him? How settled are your feelings?

The main problem I have had with responding to your posts is that you have always been all over the place - and I can understand and empathise with that, as that's how I was was for years during my H's affair.

The problem is that it's hard to give advice under those circumstances. We've given advice and you appear to agree with it, but then you act in the opposite way. Just on Tuesday you said:

You can't be in Plan B if he is coming into the house and sitting on the sofa.

I worry that your going in and out of Plan B, and never having really being in it, must seem silly and childish to him, and must irritate your IM brother as well. You've never shown BF that you will maintain your high demands unless he lives up to them.

I can understand still being in love with and not wanting the relationship to end for good. If that's how you feel, you need to take control and insist that he ends his drinking. There can be no relationship with him while he behaves as he does. When he has been dry for months you can date again, and when that goes well you can plan the wedding.

Which long-term strategy do you want to pursue? We can advise you on either of them, but you need to pick one and stick to it. If you're finished with him, take a deep breath and let the relationship go for good. If you would prefer to stay together, which would be a really good thing to do for the kids and if you love him, get him into rehab so that he stops destroying his brain and can think clearly and be a good husband.

Is most of this as a result of his drinking?

If most of it is then when he stops drinking, you date again. If there is any further appearance of silent treatment, name calling, never been good enough, nothing nice to say, moods, no affection - things that do not seem to be directly related to drinking, but to his attitude and (lack of) love for you, you know that this is as good as it gets and you say goodbye.

Actually, reading that list I'm sure hardly anybody would understand why you want to make this relationship work - but there must be something he does for you that creates the feeling of love. I can't believe that you keep trying with him just because he's the father of your children. If you've been free of the humiliating behaviour for months now while he hasn't lived with you, you must be happier; so why do you keep trying with him? Why haven't you said that it's over - weeks and weeks ago?

Thank you so much for posting Sugar. I have been an absolute wreck and I believe it is been a build up of home schooling 2 children, working and dealing with the separation. I have let my emotions rule me and acted immaturely. I must look silly and childish and have allowed things to spin out of control.

I am reacting to what he is saying and doing, rather than what is best for the children and I and part of a plan.

I have also opened up to a few people, and they have given advice and its made me into a confused mess.

It all started to go out of control 3 weeks ago when I got upset about BF taking the children out for the day and didn't deal with it effectively. BF took the children to see his Dad for his birthday, it ended up being a whole day out. I felt excluded and that BF was pushing me away again when in reality he just got caught up in the day. He phoned me a few times during that day to let me know he was running late. I am feeling generally very insecure about his feelings for me.

Dr Harley said I must learnt to communicate my emotions in a more positive way. When I got upset with BF he backed off from me completely, which is when I started to panic and get angry. It reminded me of how it was when we were together, he does not like any criticism or complaints at all, and could sometimes give me the cold shoulder for weeks on end. Then when I asked him about his lease on his house, he said well I need to keep it until we get us right. I know this is the sensible thing to do, but cant help feeling that it is another rejection that he is still unsure about me even though we spent 12 weeks together. I feel like he should be fighting for me and desperate to come home and it should be me saying lets wait. At first when he came back I kept my distance and kept things at a sensible pace, then I let my guard down and just wanted things to get back to normal so I don't have to worry or think about 'us' anymore. I got fixated on him coming home. I was finding the terms of living separately but spending time together very difficult. Not being sure if I was seeing him that night or that weekend. Worrying about what he was upto when he was not with me.

In those 12 weeks when I broke 'Plan B' there were no angry outbursts and he was trying to prove to me that there was no other women in his life. Dr Harley saw this very positively and I guess I was taken a back. Dr Harley said that he has met 2 of your conditions in your Plan B letter. Dr Harley said that this guy wants to be in your life and for the rest of your life. I am scared that it is giving me false hope.


I do still love him and do not want the relationship to end for good. I am scared that deep down he doesn't want me or he loves me but never thinks its going to work, and I am trying to protect myself from anymore pain or trying to come to terms with it being over as quickly as possible. I have been posting here for 13 months now.

Dr Harley said if you can do one thing for him it is to get him to stop drinking. That your BF should see this as a great act of care for him. That I should tell him that I will stand by his side and do it with him, offer an alchohol free relationship and that BF promises he will stop drinking now, and if he starts drinking again that he enters a rehab clinic. That it is something you do TOGETHER. If he doesn't want to give up drinking then you should move into Plan B. Dr Harley said I should give him his email address.

The day before I gave BF the silent treatment about going out for the day, he woke up from a hangover and said to me unprompted - I need to give up drinking and I need to do it to get us right. So he knows. Thats why I was so upset about him going off for the day as I felt we had made huge progress about him admitting his drinking as he has never done that before.

The problem is now, when he told me he was keeping the house, I pulled away and we are estranged again. Although he has been texting and calling a lot mainly about the kids. He also emailed me saying that he has booked a family outing and we should all go together. He is clearly in some sort of pain with us being estranged again.

I have offered for us to talk about 3 times now and he has not taken me up on the opportunity to do so.

I am not in any sort of plan, I have been in plan p for panic.

Please help me formulate a plan. Steady she goes.

I don't know if its a result of his drinking. There are some things on the list that he does when he is drunk. I don't have any experience with alchoholics or how it impacts the brain. I have asked Melody as I know she has some experience here and I have googled a lot.

Dr Harley touched on his lack of care and thoughtlessness of the radio show. He said that women are programmed to think of others and men aren't always programmed that way. That he has to learn how to take your feelings into consideration each time he does things.

Dr Harley said that generally speaking that women turn men into a more thoughtful person. That women tend to spend time when they are married try to turn their spouse into a more thoughtful person for her.

Dr Harley offered to counsel us.

Dr Harley has already given you the first thing to do. Nothing else can be done until this is complete:

Have you given Dr Harley his email address?

Thank you SugarCane

OK but BF and I are currently separated and not really dating. So it’s a bit tricky to have a conversation with him at the moment.

He just dropped off DS chatted for half hour gave me a kiss on the cheek and left. He is being a bit aloof with me.

He told me he has no plans this weekend and to let me know if I need help with the children.

That’s what I meant about what do I do now? I guess I just need to wait until he initiates some kind of conversation and in the meantime live my best life!

I find him so confusing. He clearly is distressed when we have little contact, in fact he contacts me more when I am cooler but he makes no attempts to start a conversation. This is what happened before when I was in Plan B.

Just want to clairify. You said that you were going back into Plan B (this was after you talked with Dr. Harley), but you obviously are not in Plan B, correct?

It’s all a bit messy BH. Dr Harley has advised to talk to BF to see if he will agree to stopping drinking, but to offer to join him in and do it together. BF and I were getting along well but we had a disagreement a couple of weeks and BF has pulled back, we are on friendly terms but really only exchanging the children.

I am trying to plan carefully next steps.

Hi Sugar

Do I pull him to one side and chat to him when he nexts drops the children off?
Do I wait for him to come to me?
Do I send him an email?
Do I go straight into Plan B?

I am really trying to manage my anxiety at the moment. I have been awake since 4am and have woke early practically every day this week. I woke up today and thought if I can just make it through today then it will be ok. I really need to pull myself together but hard on little sleep.

I understand Dr Harley to have told you to get the drinking dealt with first, and THEN begin dating. If he's not willing to stop drinking, your relationship should be over.

That means you need to have a conversation in which you tell him how important your relationship is to you, and how much you want to rebuild it so that you are committed to each other, and you treat each other well, and you are happy. This is for you because you love him and don't want to stay permanently estranged, and for the children because they will be infinitely more secure and happy if their parents are together, happy and committed. The problem is that you haven't been committed, because you never showed your commitment through marriage. He has also been unpleasant, bad-tempered and moody towards you, and you have been unhappy for a long time. You'd like to know whether he has the same hopes (of happiness and commitment) for the two of you, and if he wants his future to be with you and the children. If he wants the same as you, you have a plan so that you can bring that about. If he doesn't, or if he feels that things were okay as they were and he'd like to go back to that (moving in with you and not changing his behaviour), that's okay, but it isn't what you want, and if you don't have the same vision, the relationship will have to end.

If he wants the same as you, he must see that you have been unhappy in the relationship for most of the time you've lived together. His moodiness, silent treatment, put-downs and general indifference have hurt you, and they need to stop immediately. If he can admit that he did those things, and acknowledge that he actively hurt you, and if he will put all his efforts into un-learning all those behaviours and to stop doing anything that you identify as hurtful, you can begin again - and this starts with his stopping drinking for good.

So if he desires to commit, and accepts and acknowledges that his various behaviours hurt you and must stop, you tell him that the first stage must to for him to stop drinking right then and then. He must never touch another drop of alcohol. If he can't commit to that first stage, there is no point in discussing things any further.

If he can commit to that first stage, he needs to get help. I'm unfamiliar with how this would be done. You asked about MelodyLane, and I remember reading in her long history of posting that her ex-husband (the father of her kids) gave her the choice of going to AA right then and there or losing the kids. She joined AA on the spot and as far as I know, never drank again, without ever relapsing. However, I have read other people say that when an addiction is removed, the relationship often collapses as a result. I don't fully understand the dynamics, but it seems the addicted spouse either finds another addiction - which can be attending AA itself, or hooking up with someone that they meet there - or looks at their life and decides they don't like it, and becomes even more unpleasant to live with, or leaves. Ending the addiction needs to be handled carefully.

IF BF joins AA, it must be a single-sex group, and his sponsor must be male. Going into residential rehab needs to have the same precautions.

BF might try simply giving up without joining anything, and if that fails, then speaking to his GP for more help, or contacting AA. I've never had any experience of this so I'm not the best person to ask, but bear in mind that Dr Harley recommended that you do this together. You need to find a way where you can know every single day that he hasn't had a drink - and this does not involve his moving back in with you. You need to maintain a relationship where you can encourage him, check up on him, and keep the level of love you have from falling even further - not through dating, but through conversation.

Only when there have been months of sobriety can you move on to dating.

This is a long process and a wedding, and moving back together, might be a year or more away. For now, you are seeking commitment to that future, to abstinence, and to warm and loving conversation and behaviour without sarcasm, put-downs, sulks and the rest of it, along with good fatherhood.

Try never to bring up the affair in your talks. However, I'm unsure whether he ever sent that woman a no-contact letter. Sending one would be a step towards commitment. I would seek advice from
Dr Harley about whether sending one now (if one were never sent before) is necessary.

You didn't answer my question about whether Dr Harley has his email address. Ask him whether he is willing to use Dr Harley's free help, and explain how you feel his work has already helped you, and would bring about the best marriage possible because of the guidance it offers. Persuade him to at least have an email conversation with Dr Harley so that he can get you started.

Thank you Sugar Cane, I read this a lot over the weekend.

It all makes complete sense.

Dr Harley didn’t really clarify the realms of our relationship when he stops drinking just that I should offer to do it with him.

BF took the children out for the day as I hosted a baby shower at the house. He came to the house and mowed all the lawns for me and tidied up a bit outside.

I was at the house with girlfriends and I feel it’s difficult to know what to say about BF. Do I say we are currently separated? I am really embarrassed about it and feel so sad. I was not myself.

BF dropped the kids off and came in for half hour to chat. He was mainly telling me about what the children and him did during the day and asking about the baby shower. I asked him if he drank at the weekend and he said he had a few gins Friday and a couple Saturday but that was all. I was disappointed as I thought he may use this time to give up. He is acting all puffed up like a peacock and probably feels like he is in the drivers seat. He stroked and squeezed my shoulder and kissed me on the cheek and left. I put the kids to bed. He is putting on some big act like I am doing fine without you.

I asked BF if he would like to meet for lunch one day and he said yes that would be nice. So we are going to meet Wednesday. I can’t help feeling I am going to put my head in the lions mouth and I am going to be back in Plan B by the end of the week. I probably won’t even finish my first sentence without him cutting across me.

Maybe my negative thinking again but I can’t quite believe what Dr Harley said about BF wanting to be in your life for the rest of your life. It certainly doesn’t feel that way at the moment.