Thank you Sugar Cane. I think I do need to chill out a lot! I actually really enjoyed my time alone today, I think I did a pretty good job of not reacting to things.

Dr Harley kindly responded to my questions to;

1. Do we keep the children in a visitation schedule between our two properties?

Yes. It should be as if you are both divorced and dating in an effort to reconcile.

2. I am still concerned about his lack of commitment, I could go through this process and he still does not want to marry. any way I can test this?

The test comes after he has proven to be consistent in keeping his other commitments. The marriage issue is about whether or not you will be living together with your children or shuttling them back and forth for the remaining years you are raising them. And don't sign a prenuptial agreement.

That makes things clearer. He is one clever man!

I need to start enjoying life a little more even through all this turmoil,

I appreciate your copying Dr Harley's answer here. As you continue to post, his answers will help us to ensure that we coach you in accordance with his advice, rather than inventing advice of our own.

If we knew how to save marriages, we would never have screwed up our own!

Basically I could be here for another 10 years posting! I bet your all real excited to hear that!! Lol.

Amazing place and my sounding board.

Thank you

I hope you all had a good weekend.

Just a quick update. BF came over yesterday morning with the children, it was so good to see them all after 2 nights away.

When BF turned up on the drive he got out the car and gave me a kiss on the lips. We sat and had a couple of hours in the garden just chatting the 2 of us whilst the children watched TV. We were filling each other in on the weekend, and I told him about my pre booked plans Friday night, and how it was a quiet dinner just my girlfriend and I. I also told him how I had a quiet day Saturday planning tennis then doing some gardening in the afternoon. Sunday afternoon we all went go karting which was such fun.

2 main positives about yesterday is BF asked me to sit down and make some plans for over the summer dates for him and I to spend time together and dates for us to spend family time. The other thing he kept telling me about was his lack of drinking over the weekend and how he took the children for dinner Sat evening and he drank mineral water, I didn't even have to ask! He looks so much better already and I so prefer him when he is not drinking. I think he is really taking this seriously. So far so good.

I am so happy. One thing I do need to sort out is my highs and lows. LAst week I got into such a state and really wandering about my hormones? I seem to get hit with a real low mid month. Something for me to sort out?

Anyway Happy Monday all.

This sounds very good. How did he respond when you told him about Friday? Even if he didn't speak, did he look as if he appreciated the information?

It would be good practice for you to tell him conversationally about your plans to spend time doing whatever. If you were married and living together Dr Harley would encourage you to lead integrated lives where you do not plan activities without taking each other into account. You wouldn't make plans and then announce them; you would spend most of your recreational time with him anyway, and ask him how he would feel about your doing whatever. While you are separated ad building up towards marriage you could practice this kind of behaviour, showing him how you expect to live later, and how fulfilling that lifestyle would be,

Each time, tell him that you're pleased when he says he didn't drink, and tell him from time to time how much better he's looking. Show him that you're pleased to make plans to spend time together. You're trying to let him know that you want to be together as a (married) family, and that the way to achieve that is to both change the behaviours that made you unhappy in the past.

Remember that the changes that you are asking from him are non-negotiable, and that you need to see them over a sustained period before you contemplate marrying and moving in together. You don't need to tell him that unless something forces you to; this is for you to bear in mind every day, so that your confidence grows and you're not let down again.

If you find the highs and lows continue over the next month, consider talking to your GP about a change of anti-depressants. In had to go on them a while back, and a low dose just took the edge off my worrying, broken sleep and general anxiety. I took them for about 2.5 years and came off them very easily.

Morning SugarCane


He looked like he appreciated the information. When I told him what I did on the Saturday he said that sounded like a lovely day. During this whole process he has been telling me what he has been doing and where he has been the whole time. We are both on a running app together Strava and I often see when he is at his house going out for evening runs. Wen we were living together he really only wanted to spend time with us all as a family, he use to ask me not to plan evenings out on a Friday as he looked forward to coming home and spending time together. We just didn't get much time together as a couple. Towards the end he avoided couple time which was horrible.

Its strange, I almost like I feel he is pleased that I told him to stop drinking, all these years and I have never mentioned it. How is it possible to get like that? Its like I am showing him care and he appreciates that. Dr HArley said it will be the greatest act of care you can ever make. Its amazing how much alchohol can actually change someones personality?

This weekend, is my weekend to have the kids. BF has asked me if I would like to go away with him on the boat with the kids overnight on Sunday. I would really like to go but not sure if thats a good idea overnight? I am not considering having SF with him.

BF is still contacting me lots throughout the day and I am practically seeing him every day even if its just a short visit for 30 minutes.

Still massively worrying that I am going to invest all this time and attention and its not going to end up where I want it to be. Worrying again lol.

There is lots of questions to this news arrangement / dating phase... such as

Should I make my own plans for the weekends I have the kids?

Do you think he is now complacent as he now has his “me time” and the kids and I?

Has there ever been anyone in a similar situation here on MB?

Also jobs....my current job is good pay flexible around the children and a lot of home working. However I am at home a lot and quite lonely under the new situation. Thinking I should go out there and get a new job which will mean more commitment / less flexible but more sociable?

I just can’t believe it is 6 months since we have been living appart. He has just signed a new lease for 6 months. He must be happier in his new situation. I miss him being in my bed every night. He doesn’t seem to miss any of this???

Can’t help wandering what I am doing waiting around for someone who is so complacent about me. Hanging in there on this and sticking to the plan.

I miss my son tonight too . He didn’t want to go to dads tonight.

Can’t help it but ringing in my ears is what Melody said - he is getting the best of both worlds now.

OK temporary low moment yesterday. I am still on PLan. I just find it hard thats all . Just coming to terms with living apart and dealing with this new situation.

I know I am much further along that this time last year.

This is so hard, I am just saying.

We went to do the school pick up together again yesterday. We picked the children up and took them out on the boat after school and then had dinner together. It was lovely.

When we were having dinner and the children played in the garden BF told me that he had a melt down that morning that he is really upset with himself that he had gone through 3 brand new phones this year and had either lost or broken them. That he keeps losing things all the time and forgetting stuff. He blamed it on his age but I think it’s probably to do with his heavy drinking over the years. DR Harley said on the show you may see signs of it already.

Then we headed back and said bye to Dad. DD said Daddy can you sleep at our house tonight? Then said I think you two should go on honeymoon. Clearly DD wants us to be together breaks my heart.

We all said goodbye BF gave me a kiss on the lips.

I think you need to continue asking Dr Harley for answers to your questions. The ones about making your own plans for the weekends, and going away on the boat on Sunday night, would good. The problem for me is that I haven't come across any cases like yours, where the couple has separated but there is a plan to date and then marry. As a rule, we don't get unmarried couples with children on this board. Unmarried people here might have children of their own, but not together, and not having lived together and then separated. One of them is usually asking about the wisdom and practicalities of getting married. This is the first case that I've been involved with where we're trying to get an unmarried couple back together, and I don't know what Dr Harley would advise unless you ask him. I'm only interested in coaching you according to Dr Harley's advice, not my own. (I haven't got a clue!)

The only experience similar to yours that I have seen is where the couple is married and separated, with a view to getting back together. The fact of the marriage makes a big difference to the intention to get them back together - as long as there is no abuse. Both spouses want to rebuild their marriage. Dr Harley has coached couples like that on the private forum. In your case, BF was not committed to marriage (otherwise he would have married you) and it's hard to know whether he's committed to it now, as you are. It could be that his original lack of commitment has not changed, and that's why he has been happy to renew his lease and does not seem to be desperate to get back "home".

I don't think you can second-guess what BF is feeling, or what the future will bring. He might indeed be enjoying his single life, and moving back together might bring back the horrible behaviour that led you to separate in the first place. That has happened to a couple recently on the private forum.

I think all you can do is follow the advice that Dr Harley gives, accepting that things might not work out. It's either that, or walk away now. Fretting about it isn't going to change BF's behaviour and attitudes.

Thank you Sugar Cane everything you are saying makes total sense.

I think things with BF are going well. I need to stop focusing on the lease of the house or him going cold.

Since we had the chat last weeks things have been great. He has stopped drinking, making lots of plans for couple time and family time. I couldn’t ask for more really.

Like Dr Harley said, just follow your Plan B letter.

Nothing’s worth having if it’s not worth fighting for.

Have a good weekend all.

CoolB.

So glad Sugar Cane is helping you.


You could see the extension of the lease as an act of love. He wants to find a way to make this work and knows the time is needed.


Has he agreed to go to AA? He is not going to be able to shake the addiction unless he gets support. Anyone can stop for a while. Then a trigger comes along and it is back to the beginning again. Gently guide him to the next step.

Thank you Living_Well

I hope all is good with you and thanks for all your help over the last year.

Things are going really well with BF. He can't get enough of me really. He is over at 'my house' all the time, messaging and calling throughout the day. We went away on the boat at the weekend for one night and had the best time. That felt really good to be away from the house and everything in our own little bubble. He was lovely, and kept calling me 'the mrs' how ironic. He has still not been drinking and he was invited out on a boys night this Friday but has declined and said he would rather be with us lot than out damaging his liver anymore.

He has not agreed to go to AA, although I did say to him would he agree to go if he went on another 'binge session'? Dr Harley said that if he stopped drinking great, but if he started to drink again and go on another binge then he had to agree to rehab or I should go into Plan B.

Everytime I meet up with friends or family it brings it all back though my situation, I do feel a lot of shame and embarrassment around his cheating and splitting up. Then I feel anger bubbling up towards BF for putting us through all of this. I hide it though in front him. It would be interesting to hear from the vets how they dealt with this side of things? I do feel that I have kept a bit of distant from friends and family during this separation.

I suppose the question is how much did you tell friends and family about what was going on? Also did you feel embarrassed about it all??

Did he say why?


What did he say to that?


You do know that AA and rehab are two different things? AA holds meetings where people support one another's efforts to stay off alcohol. Rehab is far more serious; you are an inpatient for up to three months with intensive therapy. It is for those for whom AA is not sufficient.

Does he know that he can never touch alcohol again? Even Christmas pudding is off limits.


As Sugar Cane says, your situation is highly unusual around here. 80% of shack-ups break down so what happened is not surprising. This new pathway will either take you to a stronger, healthier relationship or it will draw a line under it. Either is better than what you have now,

Hi Living Well

He has not agreed to go to AA yet - but if he starts to drink again then I will ask him to. If he does start to drink again Dr Harley advised to go straight into Plan B.

Dating is continuing to go well. BF is being very attentive and kind. He has not had one angry outburst with me this year. This is huge progress. He also is constantly contacting me every day.

I do feel myself 'more in love' with him, rather than just desperate to put the family back together again. We are spending lots of family time together, not as much just the 2 of us. Although we have some time planned for this over the next few weeks. We are spending the day together this Wednesday and we have one night away in a couple of weeks.

I do feel quite lonely though and do feel there is still some stuff missing. For example if I was dating someone new I would expect more romantic words, like him giving me compliments or telling me he loves me. This is missing. Also, when the kids are in bed during the week then he could spend the odd evening with me.

That anxious feeling still sits there and I feel a lot of internal anger / anxiety about being in this situation.

Thanks all

Does he know you feel this way. Have you told him?


Completely understandable, you have been through some tough times and it will take a while for new positive memories to replace the older negative ones. In the meantime you are being cautious as you have been burnt more than once.

But I wonder if part of the anxiety is coming from the fact that BF has not agreed to go to AA. You do not say why he has refused. Does he know that a single slip up would be the end of everything? Dr Harley recommended (if I remember it right) that you gently guide him into a recovery programme. It is much easier to kick an alcohol addiction with the support of a sponsor and group. Why push a rock up a hill?

Hi Living Well

No I haven’t told BF this yet. I will do though.

It’s all been going well and I even feel BF falling really in love with me again. He is contacting me all day every day, I am seeing him daily and we are enjoying each other’s company.

I feel myself acting so differently with him, I am much warmer towards him than I was before. We were in a really bad place before cold and angry with each other most of the time.

My anxiety about everything has started to go away. I now actually feel a bit sorry for him that he is missing out on so much with his children. I also feel like he really doesn’t want to live apart from us all. The anxiety is mainly to do with his ambivalence and hot / cold behaviour towards me.

I seem to be growing in confidence day by day. As
My confidence and positivity grows he seems to want to be closer to me.