My husband and I are both retirees. We get along well. I love him deeply, but I don't feel "in love" with him. We spend tons of time together. We do fun things together. But I would like to be more than just comfortable and to feel passionate again. Our sex life is waning. Help.

Welcome to MB.

Could you tell us more about yourselves, please? How long have you been married? Children? Ages? What kind of "fun things" do you do? Would you say you were ever passionate together?

We have been married for 40 years. Our children are in their late twenties and early thirties.

We camp. We go to shows.

Thank you for replying, but you're not giving us much to go on. You've come asking for help but are giving very little away. Could you tell us more about your lives together? How do you think your husband feels about your marriage?

And could you please answer SsugarCane’s question? Would you say you were ever passionate together?

Are these things "fun" to you? I know that I love them, but do you? Does your husband?

Dr Harley says that if we spend our most exciting recreational time with our spouses, we will be passionate about each other. I am trying to find out why this doesn't this work for you. How much time per week do you spend alone doing these things?

What effect does "going to shows" have on your conversation and affection afterwards? Usually, during a show the attention is on the show rather than each other, but the show can provide an opportunity for intimate conversation afterwards.

I am glad you came to marriage builders. If you have spent much time on this website, you know that while many people have theories about marriage, Doctor Harley has been actually been successful in helping people.

I found marriage builders in 2002. Just like you, I was looking to make my marriage more passionate and improve the relationship with my spouse. I can tell you that for us, it worked very well.

At this point in time, my wife and I are also retired. We have just finished going back through the Marriage Builders materials. It seems to help to go through it again every four or five years.

If you are OK answering a few questions, we can find a starting place to give advice.

You don't have to reply to anything you are uncomfortable talking about.

First, tell us your cultural background. That is, your country of origin and heritage. (For both of you.) It would also be nice to know which country you live in, and what general area of the country you reside in. If you have recently moved, where did you spend most of your adult lives?

Second, does religion play a big part in your life?
Do you and your spouse share the same belief system?

Background as to why these things were asked -
People of different cultures sometimes look at the marriage relationship differently. Having basic background information on someone can help us to tailor what we say so it is easier to understand, and more helpful. There will not be large differences, but every little bit helps.
Also, I have a christian background, and sometimes use historical religious stories to illustrate a point. I won't do that if It is not helpful to you. I am not trying to be judgmental, just want to make sure that I don't offend in any way, and that the suggestions I make will actually be useful to you based on your background.

Third, Are you widely read on the Marriage Builder's website, and do you understand Dr Harley's materials?

Fourth, Is your spouse onboard with this... That is, do they also want to improve the marriage? Or are you hoping to learn what is needed and then share with them and hope they will work with you on it?

Fifth, approximately how long have you been married, and have you had any recent problems in your marriage.... affairs, death of a close family member, or any emotionally stressful events or traumatic changes in either of your lives?

Again, I can tell you that the materials you find on this website can really help your marriage, If both will learn the materials and then put them into practice.
Look forward to hearing back from you.
SS

PS, I see that as I was writing this, you have received some other posts, Just ignore things you've already talked about.

Hello. I am sorry but I have not been able to get into the forum. It keeps giving me Gateway error when I try. Today, I finally switched browsers.

I would say we were passionate when we were first married. Off and on since. Our daughter recently got engaged and the way the two of them look at each other made me feel a bit jealous I suppose. I would say that since Covid shut the world down and he is all I have that is when it truly waned.

My husband was talking last night about what a wonderful marriage we have and in many ways he is correct. He is a wonderful guy.

I am just feeling lost, lonely and adrift. I don't have a purpose anymore. I miss my friends and I miss my job.

What do we do. When we are home (which isn't often), we take 3-5 miles walks together every morning. (Takes an hour and a half to two and a half hours depending on if we walk a rural road near our house or go to a walking trail.) We eat all of our meals together. He will work on outside projects. I work on inside chores. Once a week or so we will go somewhere we haven't been before in the area: try a new restaurant, see a fun show, go to a museum, etc. Every night we do a marriage devotion together.

Our children live all over the country. We take our RV out for a month at a time or so. A week might be spent in the area where our child lives, but the rest is exploring an area we haven't been. Our son is a musical theater performer and we often go to see whatever show he might be in. We hike, which I do like.

We serve overseas together for a month at a time. I do enjoy that and feel useful there. I have things more things to talk to him about.

But I miss teaching. I miss leading ladies' Bible study. I miss seeing my friends and having a sense of community. I feel so untethered. My husband adores me and could spend 24/7 with me and no one else and be perfectly happy. I feel like when I was teaching and had something of my own, I had more to give him. Not sure if that makes sense.

I have the gateway error every time I log in and try to get on the forum. Have tried computer, tablet, phone, 3 or 4 different browsers from each platform. I wish they would fix it because I think it is the reason so few people post these days. Glad you made it back.
After I login, I cannot get here by clicking on FORUM, I have to click on my user name, then on the number of posts I have made which brings up my post history, then on my last post which brings me here. Anyway, sorry you are having problems, but glad you made it back.

Your user name "comfortable shoe" describes your marriage. Well, not just your marriage, it is your whole life at this point in time.

The title of this thread " comfortable to exciting" is your goal. This is not a small thing for you. It is causing so much hurt inside that you worry or that you wonder if your life will ever feel right again.

I gather that your husband does not know your feelings. He is happy and thinks all is well. Your relationship is good, but not close enough that you can talk to him about this. That is an indicator. I believe you feel that if you had the right kind of marriage your H would come to you and say "there is something in our relationship that doesn't feel quite right, how can I help you with this?"

Sugar Cane and Brainhurts are like medical specialists. They want to define the problem, operate and have the patient be healed. They are very efficient and quite good at this. The problem comes when the patient cannot give a good description of symptoms. I believe there is more going on here than you realize.

It is hard to know what to say next, because
this is kind of complicated. Maybe we can go in this direction...

It is often good to discuss background information. One of the reasons we ask questions, Is so that we can have a better overall view of what the underlying problems are.

So, let's do a little review of what we think we know about you from what you have said so far.

You had a hard time coming here. You are in what many people would consider to be an ideal situation. You are trying very hard not to complain, however you still have a big hole in your psych, and you don't know what to do about it. I think you feel a little guilty about the feelings you are having, but they are still there, you ARE having them. They are not going away.
If my wife and I were to go to dinner tonight with the two of you, you would talk, and laugh, and it would look like everything is wonderful. But you would have this hurt deep down inside that no one knows about.

For every journey there must be a starting place. You have pretty much answered all of my questions, so I think we have enough information to begin. There is so much to talk about, your marriage, your life in general, how to get from where you are to where you want to be... all of that.
But let's start with this.

From Luke chapter 12
6 Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?
7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.

So sparrows are not worth much to men, but God knows every one of them. AND YOU ARE SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN. MUCH, MUCH MORE.
My belief is that God already has a plan for your happiness that will help you through this hard time in your life.

Do you believe this?
This is not a rhetorical question, I would like an answer. Not just a yes or no answer, I want you to explain.

I would guess you have been praying about these feelings you are having. Do you feel like you are getting through, and that you will get help?

I am asking these questions more for you, than for me. For us to have hope and faith, we need to know we will get help.

Still Seeking thinks for a few minutes...
This is probably enough for now.

Take some time to read this and think on it before you reply. Use logic to understand what is happening in your life, but also examine your feelings and try to understand them, then come back and tell us what you have learned so far. There are no right or wrong answers here, you don't have to be afraid to share your feelings. Part of this is to help you understand your feelings and your husband's feelings. The things that are in your heart. OK?

SS

You had a hard time coming here. You are in what many people would consider to be an ideal situation. You are trying very hard not to complain, however you still have a big hole in your psych, and you don't know what to do about it. I think you feel a little guilty about the feelings you are having, but they are still there, you ARE having them. They are not going away.
If my wife and I were to go to dinner tonight with the two of you, you would talk, and laugh, and it would look like everything is wonderful. But you would have this hurt deep down inside that no one knows about.

Wow, yes this is me exactly.

Now, do I feel like I am important to God. Yes, but the chief goal of man (or woman) is to glorify God, not to be happy.

Feelings tell us a story, but we should not act on our feelings. I do the right thing regardless of how I feel about it.

But yes, God loves me and cares for me. He wants my good and to give me hope.

Do you have depression?

Why can’t you do things with your friends?

I don't know. I don't think so.

Because I realized just how activity based my friendships were. I am generally only home for a week or two at a time. They are working and most of them still have children at home and they are going to club soccer or dance practices or end of the year programs, etc. That or they are like us empty nesters who are traveling to take care of a parent or to go see a grandchild or something.

If we do get together, It is awkward because we have separate lives now. But mostly, we cannot seem to find time that fits for us to get together. I am gone. They are gone or they are working or at some kid event. I don't have the teaching job where I see them everyday or the kid activity where I see them all the time. I have realized that most of my friendships have ended whenever the activity has ended that I am doing with them.

I have been reading the articles on the website. I definitely am not good at emotional honesty that is for sure.

That and I don't know what I want. My husband would move heaven and earth for me if I knew what that was, but I do not. I do not know what to tell him to do that he isn't doing. He asks me nearly every day what he can do for me. I tell him nothing.

My husband and I just filled out the recreational inventory. Here is what we found:

Acting: Me 3 Him -3
Bible Study Me3 Him 3
Bowling 2, 2
Camping 3, 3
Church Services 3, 3
Concerts 3, 3
Dancing 3, -3
Fishing 2, 3
Football 2, 2
Gardening -3, 3
Hiking 3, 3
Movies 2, 2
Museums 3, 3
Photography 3, 3
Plays 3, 2
Poetry 3, -3
Skeet shooting -3, 3
Sightseeing 3, 3
Singing 3, 3

It sounds like you have the time together part of this covered pretty well. What remains is that your needs are not being met, or there are love busters going on.

At one point I said this seemed complicated. You HAVE been through life changing emotional trauma. You retired from teaching, and that was/is part of who you are. You are seeing continental drift in your marriage and realizing you want the passion back. We don't like to think these things affect us much, but they can and do.

So... you need to know what emotional needs were being met by activities with friends, and by your vocation. Then your H needs to find a way to meet them for you.

I don't think your situation is terminal. I see you are already sharing things from this site with your H. This is a good thing.

It does not appear from what you have told us so far that there are major love busters in your marriage.

That leaves unmet needs.

I worry that when you read this you will reject it outright.

Having studied Dr Harleys materials for over 20 years, I am sure he is correct about how to bring passion back to a marriage. If the two of you are spending time together, and there are no love busters, it has to be unmet needs.

Have you studied emotional needs yet?
Do you understand what love busters are at this point in time?

Should I stop and let you catch up on your reading?

SS

I could comment on other things you have written, but I think it best to let you read and process everything up to this point. Wanted you to know I am reading your posts.
SS

Ok, so I have been reading about love busters. My husband is very chill, so no angry outbursts in the history of our marriage. In fact, we have had very, very few conflicts in the history of our marriage. We get along very well. Neither one of us make selfish demands or are ever disrespectful to each other. I would say we are both very independent, but I don't think we have independent behaviors that hurt one another. My husband is an open book, but I am not. So dishonesty is a problem I have, not that he has. Annoying habits. I know I have a tone of voice that is like fingernails on a chalkboard to him. It typically happens when I am very tired or very stressed. He lets me know. I apologize. It happens maybe once a quarter or something.

I don't know that this is a love buster exactly. But he is battling a chronic health condition that is causing him a lot of pain. I miss my fun man. Yes, he/we see a doctor. He is getting treated. It is what it is as you grow older I suppose. I feel guilty for missing the energy he used to have.

I laughed when I read your recreational inventory.
This is what I laughed about -
Dancing me 3 H -3
When I met my wife she was on the college ballroom dance team. I thought I would get "points" by taking her to a dance. We walked out on the dance floor, and the first number started. I think we danced for less than sixty seconds, and she stopped. Just stop right in the middle of the floor with everyone dancing around us. She said you don't have to try and dance, and she walked me back over to the side. She told me that I was not a very good dancer. She also told me that she still liked me, and that being a good dancer was not a requirement for being together. This year is forty seven years for us.

I found marriage builders in 2002. I guess our marriage was okay, but like you, I wanted it to be much better than that. The passion kind of melted away over the years. Our sex life was going down hill. When I found the marriage builders website I could not believe how good the material was. I could not believe Dr Harley made it possible for us to print much of it for free, right off the website.

Unlike you, I had a problem with love busters. Angry outbursts, and distrespectful judgments.

I purchased two of Dr Harleys books. "His needs Her needs", And "Love Busters". Both were valuable in getting our marriage back on track. I'm guessing you would not need "Love Busters" near as much as we needed it.

It took us two years to get our marriage to the point where I was happy. After about five years I think it was fabulous. I think it took so long because she needed to learn to trust me again. There was no affair or anything like that, but no one likes to live with someone who is angry all the time.

Right now we are going through the materials again, as I have tended to slip back into bad habits over the years. Not nearly as bad as I was in the beginning, but even an occasional angry out burst is hurtful. After about three months I think we are back to fabulous.

You are a very good study. You are picking up on these materials very well. We need to figure out
how to get you to be honest with your husband, so he can give you more of what you need in your marriage. As soon as you read this last sentence, you will say in your mind "But he already does so well. "Or words to that effect. I don't think you need to go talk to him right now after you read this, but we have to work towards that. Let's help you understand the concepts and maybe give you some tools to help you work with your husband

One of the reasons I said your case seemed complicated, (and there are more than one reason) Is that I don't think you understand all of the emotional needs you are missing.

I can guess at some based on the things you have already told us, but I don't think it's time for me to talk about that yet. I think you need a good understanding of emotional needs first. Please do not reject the concept of emotional needs. Let me say this again... please do not reject the concept of emotional needs. We may need to talk about it some more. I welcome your comments. I enjoy working with you because you are honest. That makes it so much easier for you to succeed.

Continue to work on your recreational inventory. You might as well be doing things you BOTH like, and enjoy.

There are also videos available on the marriage builders website, and on youtube if you search under "marriage builders". I had to include quotes when I searched on youtube, because when I did not, it came up with too much extraneous material. The videos on his needs, her needs, and love busters are a good way to get basic understanding in a short time.

There are some drawbacks to the way we do this here. Sometimes we have things on our mind that we forget between posts. And then we have to wait... sometimes a long time to get a reply. I can tell that you want so badly for this to work for the two of you. I tell you again that it worked really well for us.

If if if the two of you, and my wife and I were able to sit down together and discuss these things, I think in a couple of hours both you and your husband would understand the concepts and know what you needed to do. It's probably not very likely, so we'll just work the best with the media we have.

Once again I say, I don't think it will take you as long as it took us. Please feel free to talk about things you read and give your point of view. Everything you say is valuable in helping us understand how to help you.

SS

LOL, you two do remind me of us. I took dance for over 15 years and so when we were dating we tried. But his rhythm was off and he couldn't lead. (I have danced with other partners. I am capable of following, but they have to be a strong leader.) Every time we have ever tried to dance together we have argued, so we decided never to dance together again for the sake of our marriage. LOL.

I will be reading about the emotional needs this afternoon and tonight. My husband has often asked me what he can do to make our marriage better, but I have no answer. I don't know what I want. I see there are some questionnaires and lots of articles. So I will start reading and reply here tomorrow.

Thanks for the help!