I put this in my post to Hummingbird, but I figured I'd split it out here; maybe get some more answers.<P>Would any of you ladies be interested in giving me some info on movies you thought were "romantic", and why? I want to do an essay on "Romantic movies as female porn" (because they give women unrealistic expectations about men) and I'd like your input on what movies have influenced how you feel men should behave.<P>No identifying info will be used...just anonymous quotes -- maybe. I don't usually see such movies myself, so I'd like to know what resonates with you and why.<P>Now, here's where it gets interesting. Here are some "movie moments" I found "moving", "romantic" or "erotic", along with an insight.<P>What's emerging here is an essay unto itself.<P>Anyone want to chime in? Check these out.<P>BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA: "I have crossed oceans of time to find you..." (Now THAT'S devotion. But yeah, she's cheating on her fiance with Dracula...)<P>THE AGE OF INNOCENCE: That glove-unbuttoning thang... (Yeah, he's in love with someone other than his wife, who knows but never lets on...)<P>TITANIC: "Flying" (yeah, I admit it) (Yeah, she's cheating on her fiance...)<P>JUDE (1996) Two moments: 1) Reading Catullus on the bridge. 2) "You and I are husband and wife if every two people were on this earth!" (=Ahem= Well, in #1 she doesn't know he's married, although separated, but then Sue runs off from her husband (with his permission) to be with Jude.)<P>I'm not sure I like what THIS says.....

I agree that movies "Set us up" for unreal expectations, just as porn messes with a mans head...<P>I was thinking of "Sleepless in Seattle", "You've got Mail" and "Forces of Nature". I am going to have to think on the last two, but remember the whole building lighting up with a message in Sleepless I think... Yeah like thats going to happen...<P>cozy

Hi<P>Personally I think for me the most romantic movie that I ever saw was "pretty woman"<BR>I feel that that was the perfect love story from rags to riches the perfect love, love over comes all kind of thing: the nice house the white picket fence a good husband everything that I ever longed for, that movie made me wonder why I could not have it all, it did not seem so hard on film why is it in real life? <BR>Titanic was a close second the love that lives on through all time "forever" no matter what may happen or come our way, she never forgot him or what he meant to her I think that his dieing to keep her going was the ultimate sacrifice to make her promise that she would go on no matter what I think that was a really special movie I will never forget it and have watched it many times I cry everytime I see it again, a truely all time great !!!<P>Just my opinion though<P>Jenny <P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P><BR>

In the words of Little Bear...Interesting. <P>I agree, too. And it's not just movies that set us up for unreal expectations..it's soaps, too. I mean, really. How many men do you all know who would have to time (or the creativity) to rent a room in a nice hotel, cover the bed with rose petals, have wine chilling, a bubble bath bubbling...etc. And the things they say...*sigh* such romantic words...I think the most romantic thing my husband has ever said to me was actually a quote from a song...Lonestars Amazed...he can't even come up with a romantic word on his own! LOL!<P>Gabbie

It's not so much the creativity as it is the "why's" of it all. I can't speak for my fellow men, but do y'all know how much roses cost? If I'm gonna buy 'em, I ain't gonna pluck the petals off and cover a king-sized bed with 'em. Jeez, you're talkin' <I>at least</I> $100 worth of roses just so you can cover the bed ONCE?<P>Anyhoo, y'all might be amazed at the creativity we men have. The trick is getting us to USE it. What y'all find romantic, we generally don't. It's not that we can't THINK of things to do -- it's that we have a different notion of what's romantic than you do. I look at a bed covered with roses and think "What a waste of money and flowers!" <P>Of course, the street runs both ways. We can't expect y'all to be sex-crazed nymphos all the time like those bimbos in the porn movies! (And I won't even get y'all started on the, ummm, "enhancements" those women use to provoke our libidos).<P>Anyhoo, this is a good thread. I like the comparison between unrealistic romance and unrealistic sex.<P>Good thread, D&C.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

jendan69:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel that that was the perfect love story from rags to riches the perfect love, love over comes all kind of thing: the nice house the white picket fence a good husband<BR> everything that I ever longed for,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for this reply, for this just proves the point I'm trying to make. I hope you don't mind if I quote -- again, anonymously. But this is a perfect example of not seeing the whole picture. I mean, Julia Roberts is a STREET WHORE in that movie!!! How is this romantic? However, it's also the "rescue fantasy" in reverse: "Someday a rich handsome prince will come and take me away from all this."<P>Interesting...<P>TITANIC. Well, I can't much argue with you here, but as author of a fanfic in which Rose marries someone else, has lots of really hot sex with him and lives happily ever after, I have had many an argument about whether "never forgetting" means that you mourn the rest of your life. I got sucked into this one too, obviously. <P>Re: Covering the bed with rose petals. Yeah. And who do you think is going to clean it up? <P>On a recent episode of SEX IN THE CITY, one of the girls went to a friend's wedding, and went with one of the ushers up to strew the bed with rose petals. They had quickie sex on the bed, went downstairs, and when the girl told the guy his father had copped a feel while dancing, that was the end of that.<P>A nice cynical twist on that, IMHO.<P>But men and women are aroused by different things. Men seem to be more turned on by explicit sex, preferably "raw" sex (i.e., BASIC INSTINCT), whereas women are more turned on by SUGGESTION of sex (the glove thing in THE AGE OF INNOCENCE, some of the eroticism in BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA, etc.<P>I recently watched HENRY AND JUNE on Independent Film Channel. This film was released with an NC-17 rating, and had tons of sex, though none of it any more explicit than you see in an R-rated movie. And it was BORING!! <P>Lone Star:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What y'all find romantic, we generally don't. It's not that we can't THINK of things to do -- it's that we have a different notion of what's romantic than you do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, so what do MEN think is romantic?

Movies with roses all over the bed..Hmmm, what was the one with Kevin Bacon as a very rich guy who did that and more... Cant remember the name... And as to men and women differing in thoughts about whats romantic.. Boy, the first think that came to my mind, was how different we feel about things that are a turn on.... Hmmmm We need to discover more about the opposite sex I think...<P>cozy <I loved "Pretty Woman"> Who wouldn't want to sing terrible in the bathtub and have Richard Gere think its irresistable..

D&C:<P>Auuugghhh! I knew you were gonna ask me that. Shoulda deleted my post when I had the chance! <P>Seriously, I can't speak for other men, but I know that things I find romantic are generally not the expensive "one-time" things. They are things that you don't do often, but that don't necessarily cost an arm and a leg, or that are extravagances that seem contrived.<P>I like taking a long, hot shower with my W. We plan to do a nice relaxing bubble bath together (probably with lots of candles, if she has her way) when we can afford a place with a tub big enough for both of us.<P>I also like taking walks with her in "romantic" places. For instance, when we lived in St. Louis, I took her down to the riverfront and we strolled near the Arch after a downtown dinner. When we lived in Chicago, we walked down Michigan Avenue during Christmas time and just looked at store windows and people-watched.<P>Sometimes, it's not so much the atmosphere as the company you keep. In Dallas, we used to drive around neighborhoods and look at ritzy houses and dream about one day owning one like that. Here in Austin, we've been out to Lake Travis a couple of times to sit at a cantina overlooking the lake and watch the sun set while drinking margaritas.<P>To some degree, all of that costs money, but it doesn't seem like such an extravagance. I know that occasionally, women (and men too) like to "do it up right" and get gussied up, go to an expensive restaurant, ride in a horse-drawn carriage, and do all that other junk, but for me, I just see so much WASTE in that stuff. I like the precious moments, the unique things that say "This is just US."<P>Does that make sense?<P>Now, having said that, I gotta admit, I'm a consumate guy. Sometimes, I just like the raw, animal sex too! <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

Hi<BR>Bringing this up to the top again come on ladies am I the only romantic here? There have got to be movies that had some great romantic effect on you all. <BR>Jenny<BR>p.s. Dazed inspite of the fact that she was a street hooker she made good once mr right came along, oh I don't know I suppose I am just a hopeless romantic, I think we (women) are perhaps looking for all the things we don't have in our own relationships a kind of fantasy you know "if only !" well I tell you what street hooker or not I wish I were her to have some one love me like that no matter what my past was that is love ! And please feel free to quote away.<BR>Jenny<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Dazed inspite of the fact that she was a street hooker she made good once mr right came along, oh I don't know I suppose I am just a hopeless romantic,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ah, but this is exactly my point....the idea that even a street hooker can have her entire life turned around by a rich guy who just happens to offer "true love."<P>Don't get me wrong, I like a fantasy as much as the next person. (Although sometimes I think the fantasies I respond to are more like those that guys like). It's when the fantasy starts to intrude into real life that it becomes a problem.<P>One problem I have with shrugging off such expectations as "I'm just a romantic" is that they lend them a certain legitimacy. When a man looks at airbrushed magazine photos of pneumatic naked women, he doesn't have anything to give it legitimacy. What's he going to say, "I'm just a sex-crazed, breast-obsessed lunatic?" Whereas women can couch their unrealistic expectations in the word "romance", and of course, we all love "romance."<P>I'm not trying to belittle your input, Jendan...I do appreciate it, because it does prove the point I'm trying to make. My hope is that this discussion helps some of you who are having trouble with real life vs. your expectations recognize the difference and put each in its proper place.

Dazed- I have to say my all time most romantic movie was "Ghost". I haven't seen one that drove me that deep emotionally for years! That both of them loved each other so much-to travel between the untravel-able time and space! I know, you want to know my most romantic part of it is the scene where they are making that pot together, pure sex, just the way I would like it-slow and gentle. (Just forget the clay!) Anyhow, that really set me up! God Bless!<P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P>

Hmm..<P>I liked Titanic, Pretty Woman and lots of other that I cannot remember the names of now because they were entertaining, but I didn't focus on the romance so much (but must say the last part of Pretty Woman was really wonderful). I just never have gotten into the romance part of movies very much.<P>Why is it that romance is something that is passed off as unattainable in a marriage, though? I think it's our expectations of what romance should be is what the problem is. If a woman expects to have a dozen roses every day, serenaded at her bedroom window by her husband every night and whisked off to some tropical locale on a whim at least 4 times a year, that may be a little much. My H has lessened up in the romance department a bit, but I guess we've evolved in this area together.

Hi Dazed<P>I see your point 100%, but what I don't see is why can't we want romance in our marriages? Like Connor said expecting a doz roses every day is unrealistic I would never expect some thing like that ( to me its the little things that count like " put your feet up I will do the dishes" or a chocolate for no good reason at all except I love you etc) and to be honest if my h did that ( the roses thing) I would be pretty suspect that some thing was wrong some where! Knowing the different between real life and fantasy has never been a problem for me I know what I have now is real but to dreamm ahhhh that is something else a place where you can be all and do all and my mom always told me "If you can dream it you can do it" I would love a fairy tale romance but to be realistic the chances of it happening are very slim to remote my husband is who he is and I fell in love with him like that and I still love him, although in light of recent happenings I am starting to wonder if perhaps he pulled the wool over my eyes, just to get me to marry him? But that is another thing all together.<P>Jenny<BR>P.S. Ghost is another all time favorite of mine, again the love that lasts "forever" breaching even death.<P>------------------<BR>Where have all the cowboys gone ?<BR>Paula Cole<P><BR>

Maybe romance for women is like porn for men in another sense:<P>I think even the most hardcore porn addict would probably get tired of porn-style sex if that was ALL he ever got, every day of the week. Personally, I'm not really into porn, but I do enjoy wild, crazy-type sex on occasion. I think what makes it so appealing is that it's NOT an everyday occurrence. It's NOT always what I get.<P>Same goes for romance. I bet y'all wouldn't be happy with a "storybook romance" if you got flowers everyday and cards everyday, and chocolates all the time. It would probably become routine, and you'd be looking for something "more." It's classic desensitization. When the extraordinary <I>becomes</I> ordinary, we look for even MORE extraordinary stuff. Just look at the evolution of television violence for another classic example.<P>My point isn't that women will never be satisfied -- it's that humans, in general, need to take EVERYTHING in moderation. A little romance unexpectedly would probably be a good thing for ALL of us men to remember. Likewise, a little unabashed animal (maybe porn-style ) sex would be a good thing for women to remember.<P>The trick is to keep it <B><I>realistic</I></B>. It can't be that way ALL the time or it loses it's specialness. If everyday was Christmas, how much fun would Dec. 25 be? <P>How're these for romantic movies that may also be interesting for your men - <I>Legends of the Fall</I> & <I>Last of the Mohicans.</I><P>My 2 cents! <P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<p>[This message has been edited by Lone Star (edited November 16, 1999).]

BRAVO LoneStar!!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I bet y'all wouldn't be happy with a "storybook romance" if you got flowers everyday and cards everyday, and chocolates all the time. It would probably become routine, and you'd be looking for something "more." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I couldn't agree more! Perfect example: At one time H started bringing me flowers all the time. It got to the point where I expected them, and it was no longer a pleasant surprise. Also, I have told this story before, how he runs a bubble bath for me, with my favorite book, and then locks me in the bathroom for some relaxing time...when he started doing this 3-4 times a week, it got old..not only because it was the same thing over and over, but because I recognized it as his way of 'foreplay' and he always did it when he expected sex. It's not that I didn't appreciate the thought, but it got old, repititious.<P>Romance: try something new...a midnight picnic under the dogwood tree...give me a massage before bed...come up behind me when I am doing dishes kiss my neck and tell me how special I am.<P>

Lonestar, I really liked what you said. <P>My H is so unromantic, I'm afraid if he did something special I wouldn't remember it because I would suffer head trauma when I fell over with disbelief.<P>I pretty much knew that when I married him, however, so can't complain now. In fact I kind of liked how real and honest he was, without a hint of being phoney or manipulative like some other Romeos were. So in part my H won my heart because he wasn't romantic. How weird is that?<P>Last night one dog barked. H got up to let him in. Stepped in dog poop. (Our 16 year old dog, bless her heart, is starting to have accidents...yuck) Anyway, I sprang up and said "let me help" then ran for paper towels and cleaned up poop. I don't wake easily, so for me, this is a big deal. H got dogs situated and cleaned up. As we climbed back into bed, H instinctively pulled me next to him. I said "You know, this is real love, to work together in ordinary events, then to reach for each other for no other purpose but to cuddle while sleeping." <P>So if this is my idea of romance, then I guess I would have to dig a ditch to lower my expectations any.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Just thought of the movie that gives me the "woushies" all over.....<P>In bed... curled up, she's ready to make love to him and he say's, can I just hold you like this (or something to that point) all night.. Oh my, like this is a real situation.. A womans dream and mans nightmare????<P>The Saint.... Yummy Val Kilmer < MELT ><P>Or "Meet Joe Black" <P>cozy

Dazed,<P>You have a good one going here. Not sure if I have anything to say and Lone Star (Hookem Horns)is doing a fine job of defending us poor unromantic souls. . Thought I would through my two cents in on this thing.<P> I am the romantic in the family not my wife. A few weeks ago I bought her flowers because I saw them at a stand and they looked really nice. She looked at me with this whats up glare. I got a weak thanks as if something was expected. It wasn't, wrong time of month. If I come and kiss her while she is doing something, it is, "will you quit that I am busy." So it goes both ways I guess.<P>About movies, I think men like there movies strong like coffee. A bit of an exageration but let me explain. When it comes to fantasy it is Science Fiction (Star Wars, Terminator, ET, you name it). If not that something where the guns shoot about a million bullets and everyone dies but the good guy and of course the girl. Men don't mind romantism if it is clearly marked not real (SciFi). Porn movies are the same, definitely not realistic but definitely not subtle either. We don't get confused as easily between real life and the movies that way. <P>Women, seem to prefer things closer to life, the distinction between what could happen and what happens on the film are more blurred. Even the Bodice Ripper books have that attribute. The fact that their H or boy friend are as likely to do these things as I am to catch a ride on the Millenium Falcon somehow seems lost.<P>I do think that that many of these movies are a female version of porn, in that it contributes to an unrealistic view of the opposite sex. Yet, men do watch them too. Personally, I try to stay away from these movies, but will make the sacrafice if wife wants to go.<P>Oh Well my $0.02 .<P>Dazed, I am looking forward to what your conclusions from all of this is.

"Like Water for Chocolate" - whew! A good movie. Lots of yearning and romance and some pretty hot parts, too. A good foreign movie!<P>

Thought I would throw my 2 cents worth here.<P>My wife loves romance movies. Since we date more now, I see quite a few. We also stop for coffee afterwards and talk about the show. For me, I'm pretty easy to please. As long as I'm entertained for a couple of hours I don't mind plopping my cash down on the counter. <P>I'm struggling with the idea of romance movies being considered female porn. My wife loves a good romance and especially a good kissing scene. Is that an unrealistic expectation? I don't think so. <P>She likes a rugged leading man - Harrison Ford, Robert Redford, Kevin Costner, etc. She definitely didn't go for Titanic. She just couldn't go for a leading man who hasn't surpassed puberty. <P>She does like flicks where the leading lady is independent and is not needy of her man. (hmmmm....maybe there are expectation here). A recent film that we both enjoyed was the Thomas Crown Affair. A movie that I do regret paying for was Eyes Wide Shut - what a waste of film. <P>For me, put some action in there where a man has to over come what ever obstables are in his way and I'm a happy camper. <P>SHA