This going to be long...please bear with me. I've been married for 8 yrs and we have a 4 yr old and 4 mth old. If you looked at our lives and background, you would say we are living out the American Dream. Let me tell you how my "dream" turned into a nightmare. A year and a half ago, I became aware that my H was on the threshold of becoming involved with a co-worker. It started on a company one day cruise where they met, went on to calls to her cell phone from his (5 calls), a lunch date that lasted all afternoon (because of toll receipts I know how long they were out), a kiss at the end of the lunch date (he claims a peck). When I discovered all this (it wasn't all the same time)I of course jumped to the conclusion that he was having an affair. He adamantly denied it saying that she was a happily married woman with 2 kids, that she was just fun to talk to, fun to be with, nice to him, etc., etc. That he had gotten to the line but had not crossed it. That was very hard for me to believe because of his excessive lying but because of the time frame (this all came out 2 wks after the cruise), I believed that he was attracted to her (obviously),probably would have slept with her given the chance, but that it really didn't get to that. Regardless, we went through a very rough time, loss of trust, feelings of being betrayed, etc. We decided to owrk on our marriage b/c he claimed that we had lost our spark, that we were letting every other aspect of our lives take over and we were neglecting each other. He promised something like this would never happen again, that he would never talk to her again, etc,etc. Months went by and it seemed like things were getting better. I never let my guard down; constantly checked up on him, knew his voicemail codes to his cell phone and work and checked messages on a daily basis, made sure I knew of his whereabouts at all times (I realize I can become EXTREMELY overbearing), checked the last 10 numbers dialed on his cell phone almost on a daily basis and never found our heard anything. I felt pretty comfortable that he was <BR>"behaving" even though I was no where near getting over what had happened. We decided to have our 2nd child. She was born in July and everything seemed fine except for the normal stress a newborn gives.<P>He goes out of town (one nighters) at times; about 3 times while I was pregnant and three times after the baby was born. He always went with another co-worker (male)that he has basically become buddies with over the years. The last time he went away (Oct.11), I had no reason to suspect anything, everything seemed to be on the up & up. He said he was going with 2 other guys (the usual partner and someone else). He called me several times on his way there to check up on his Dad who was having minor surgery (the calls were always when he was alone, never heard anyone else around him). He left the name of the place he was staying at on the machine and when I called, b/c of something the front desk clerk said, I started becoming suspicious. He said, "Oh yeah, they checked in this morning" when H claimed that they had finally gotten there around 6pm. Through a series of investigative efforts on my part, I confirmed that the co-worker from a year and half ago was there, not the 3rd male. The usual partner was there b/c what I did was call the restaurant the H had told me they were going to and asked for her and in the meantime, I heard the usual partner's voice loud and clear (I guess it's a small place). Also, I asked the hostess whether there were any parties of 3 males and she said no, there were 2 couples and 2 guys and a girl. He knew immediately when the hostess said there was a call for %^#*#, that it was me. I hung up when she got on the phone, my intent was not to talk to her, just to confirm that she was there. He called me back immediately, pretending nothing was up (to feel out the situation) and I basically let him have it. He did the usual denying and I told him when he got home the next day that I wanted him out! I was SO angry and hurt. To make a long story not as long, in the last 7 weeks, I have found out (on my own, not because he has offered up any information, he will lie and deny until he has no other choice), that she was also at the overnight trip prior to this one (so was the usual partner)(he also denied her being there until he turned blue in the face and I produced proof that I knew she was there(that's a whole other post)). I also found out that the 3 of them were planning to all stay together in a 1 bdrm condo type place with a pullout in the living room (she was going to sleep in the pullout and the 2 males were going to share the room, so he says) but rushed to get her a room at another place after they realized I knew she was there. Bottom line...he says that there is no relationship, that he has not slept with her, that yes he is attracted to her but that he made the decision of going on this overnight trips that he knew she would be at to just get away from home and have a good time. He says that if he would be having an affair or relationship with her, they would be going away alone, not with the third party (I also use that one to convince myself that what he's saying is true). It's so hard for me to believe that b/c of all the overwhelming evidence against him. I sometimes think, "What else do I need, actually see them in the act?" At one point in a very heated argument when it came out that she had also been on the other trip, in a moment of rage he bursted out and said, "Yeah, I wanted to f**k her, but she doesn't give me the time of day, she's happily married, unlike me!" He later took it back and said he had only said that to hurt me, but of all the things he has said throughout this whole ordeal, it's the one thing that sounds like the truth. Then I think, if she's so happily married, what is she doing accepting to stay in a place with 2 guys especially after having had an encounter previously with one of them? I wonder if he is using that as a ploy to make me believe that she's not interested when in reality she is (my H is very good looking), but the I think, is he that smart? That comment sounded so raw and uncalculated.<BR>I've read in different posts the signs of an affair and I need to tell you, he doesn't fit any of them. He has continued to be as focused and dedicated to his home (projects, home improvements, etc.) as always, there are no unexplained absences, he does not come home late, he has a flexible schedule where he can get away with not really working a couple of days out of the week and on those days, I am either in constant contact with him via cell phone while he runs different errands or he stays with my son and they either hang out at home or go to the movies. He leaves his wallet and cell phone lying around, he lets me drive his car without a problem, there is no interest in improving his appearance..he'll mention every Sunday how he needs to lose weight, but on Monday, there he is pigging out again. Regardless of all of this, it just seems so obvious that there is a relationship going, but I do realize it is very possible to be drawn to someone and want to be around someone because they are different from the person you are with, b/c they give you attention like the person you are with doesn't anymore, b/c they are carefree and fun to be with like the person you are with isn't b/c of the stresses and responsibilities in life without actually sleeping with them. BUT WHAT ARE THE ODDS OF THAT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A GOOD LOOKING WOMAN, WITH A GREAT BODY, PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITY, MOTIVE (LACK OF EXCITEMENT AT HOME, LOSS of SPARK, OVERWEIGHT WIFE B/C OF PREGNANCY) AND A H THAT IS OBVIOUSLY LACKING CHARACTER? <BR>I don't know what to think anymore, some things sway me to believe him, others tell me how could I possibly believe him. I've decided to stay in the marriage because regardless of everything that I do know, I have no confirmation that he slept with her and I have two children and I don't have the GUTS to make a decision that will ultimately affect their lives immensely when I don't know FOR SURE. The guilt would eat away at me. I also have to mention that he is a WONDERFUL father, and besides the recent situations, he has been a wonderful husband that helps me immensly around the house, picks up my slack A LOT and has basically been there for me always.<P>Am I trying too hard to give him the benefit of the doubt? Does it sound to you that he could be possibly telling the truth? Does it look to you as obvious as it does to me or do I feel that way because I am so emotionally involved and have been basically obsessed with the situation since I became aware of her a year and a half ago? <P>I realize that I will never get the truth if there is another truth other than what he is claiming. If it did happen, I KNOW he will deny it til the end..I DIDN'T SEE IT, REMEMBER?<P>So that's why I resort to you and your take on the situation because I have analyzed it from every angle over and over again and it's making me nuts.<P>Sorry for the length...<P>Thanks for listening!

sadmv<BR>Welcome to MB. There are a lot of very wise people here so stay and read and talk all that you can.<BR>My first reaction to your story is this:<BR>Whether or not your H is sleeping with this woman, he is telling lies and keping secrets. This is not good for the marriage in any way. <BR>Read all the information you can on this site. Honesty is a key to a successful marriage.<BR>I have been dealing with lies and secrets from my H for years. His "friendship" with the OW spans 7 years of lies and secret meetings and calls before he actually slept with her.<BR>Any kind of relationship with another woman that excludes the spouse is dangerous and WRONG.<BR>I am not very good at advice becuase I sure didn't do a very good job myself. <BR>There is a lot that you can do besides finding out whether it is a sexual relationship.<BR>Be honest with your H about your feelings. Try to calmly explain to him that the secrets and lies are bertrayal in themselves. See if you can get him to read some of the info that you will find on this site.<BR>Keep posting

Hey, you guys are making me nervous...no one is responding and I really need some feedback!!<P>Please help!!<P><BR>Thanks!

Hi there<BR>Welcome...you have come to the right place.<P>I read you post and can feel your saddness. I have "been there'. I am like wasstubborn and am now happily on the good side of marriage. <P>Please know that everyone here cares for you and will try to help you. Wasstubborn is right, no relationship with another woman that is kept in secret is good. When dishonesty prevails ina marrige, someting is amiss. That something is your ralationship. The important thing is to focus on you and your husband, but primarily on you. Read all the books recommended here, read this entire web site...there is TONS of information. Make yourself a marriage expert, and affair expert. Work on YOU! That is the best you can do.....<P>You will thrive through this experience if you see it for what it is, a way to find yourself. SOunds hoaky right now, I know...but tht is all it is. A way to gain deeper insight into your wants and needs, and to take responsiblity for the part you played in the detoriation of your marriage.<P>This is something that all of us here have learned, that it takes two to make a failed marriage. It happens to almost all (if not, ALL) marriages. It is not *bad*, it is a cycle and an opportunity to become stronger and closer as a result of the troubles.<P>Please, visit here, and keep us up to date! You are a smart woman to have your radar on, and to be advice seeking so early on. Good for you! <P>Lots of luck!<BR>Sally<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

HELLO! Yes, I too have a long and terrible story.You feel like dirt and trapped into making desisions you never wanted.I have a book called "AFTER THE AFFAIR" that helped me work through the pain and desisions. I also had both of us use it as a work book so he could understand how much damage an affair causes ( either emotional or sexual ). My h's affair lasted 18mths. with my friend. It's been 7mths. since he ended it and we are still working on our relationship; still not sure if I'll recover whatever the out come.Till next time.

sadmv--<P>Several people around here already know I'm of the opinion that problems/worries need to be approached head-on. <P>I think you need to meet this woman. H will probably not be too keen on that--he will seem worried about what YOU will say or do, not what SHE will say or do (unless he fears she might slip up and tell you some things HE hasn't told you....). Talk him into it, calmly and nicely. Whether it's dinner, or just a fast hi and only time for a few words, you probably should meet her. Now I'm not saying make it an argumentative confrontation! Just for you to see her and exchange pleasantries (and anything else that might slip).<P>Confronting situations head-on always soothes my highly imaginative mind, puts things back into perspective much better than if I'm left to my own thought devices. That's a scary thing! I can mentally make a mountain out of a molehill in ten seconds flat.<P>Another thought coinciding with meeting her...you be the friendly LADY. Do not snip or act jealous...but you CAN express your feelings, and that actually might help stop anything that hasn't happened yet (and to me, I don't think any sexual has occurred from what you've told us). You could say a few things like "oh hi! I've wanted to meet you, with all these confusing accounts I've been getting about you two spending the night together?" "ahhh, so you're married. then I'm SURE you can understand my concern about what's happened...don't you think, under the circumstances, that separate rooms are warranted?" You see what I mean.<P>How do you feel about the suggestion?

sadmv,<P>First of all. Trust your feelings on this. He has had / is having an affair.<P>Secondly, don't accept blame for him having an affair. It was/is his choice. <P>Whether he has had sexual intercourse with her or not, he has still been unfaithful to you. He has still been sexual in touching, kissing and who knows what. He knows it, the OW knows it, his friend knows it, and you know it. The sex is only an issue if you want to get to the legal definition of adultery. He has some attachment to her and has been keeping secrets from you. <P>You mentioned that his friend being there was a point in his favor and that maybe it wasn't an affair. Friends are often accomplices and enablers in affairs. What do you know about his friend. Who knows, maybe the OW likes threesomes.<P>On the positive side, he has stated that he is attracted to her, has been physical with her, and has been secretive. This means that you can work together to see that the affair doesn't go any farther if it hasn't already. I suggest you read Dr. Harley's books and other good books on the subject of affairs and work towards recovery with the help of counseling.<P>Good luck.

sadmv:<P>Alas, I did respond to you -- a long one, and then my PC froze up -- again. (Windows 98 S*cks!!)<P>Read my profile. See? I've been in the same boat.<P>I wish my message hadn't died, because there was a lot of good stuff in it and I don't have time to compose the whole thing again.<P>Oh, I've been where you are -- analyzing everything, snooping and finding nothing, feeling like you have a sword of Damocles over your head. As people say here, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, the bobbin' head doll, the foam finger, and the cheap ashtray that says "Greetings from Hell."<P>And where did it get me. Nowhere. H has denied, denied, denied. And yeah, it's about a year and a half, just like you.<P>So what did I do? Plan A, Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. Repeat. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. You are NOT responsible for your H's emotional affair (and it doesn't matter where he drew the line -- it was an affair). But clearly there were things in the marriage that weren't quite right. Read "aloof"'s post about his "female friend."<P>I had to look at myself and how I am in the marriage, and I had to change things. I had to become less controlling. I had to ask for his input. I had to be more, yes, submissive, because I tend to be bossy and opinionated. I had to give him lots of love, affection, and nurturing, because he's a bottomless pit for it, and when he wasn't getting it from me, he got it from her.<P>I am not out of the woods yet. He still deals with her through work. The mere mention of her name or sound of her voice gives me an anxiety attack. But we are doing better.<P>I'd be happy to help out or answer any questions you may have along the way.

Hey, I have become the queen of snooping. Never looked before, now don't miss a scrape of paper, so I understand. However, during this time period, did your H feel like you were being overbearing.<P>It is never OK to lie, but if your H's lies may have been more of an attempt to "stay out of trouble with you" rather than to hide an inappropriate relationship. That's a thin line, but it may be useful in your evaluation of the situation.<P>Your H seems to at least want you, your marriage and your family. It sounds like you do to.<P>I'm out on a limb here, but my guess would be there may have been a somewhat inappropriate relationship or a strong attraction, but not something so emotionally involved that the relationship itself is threatening the marriage.<P>What is threatening the marriage is your communication. Specifically his willingness to lie to avoid confrontation or whatever and maybe (if you have been a bit overbearing for 18 months) the toll that your reaction based on mistrust has had on the relationship. In other words, you are feeding off each other.<P>The relationship may have origionally been a challenge, but it has snowballed into so much more. <P>Best of luck<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

I agree with Lucks. Face the co-worker head on, but in a non confrontational manner. Prepare yourself as carefully as possible as to what you will say and how you will act (lady-like, at all costs). Best scenario would be if you could catch her by surprise (a quick visit to the office?).<P>Something is obviously not right if he's lying to you about her being on those trips. Don't let your guard down, but at the same time, don't let H feel like he has an excuse to turn to someone else---by accusing him and fighting with him. <P>Best of luck to you.<P>Merlyn

Golly gosh darn it..... <P>I know how desperate you feel. <P>What Dazed is referring to in her plan A is a pre-disclosure plan A. You actually have enough information to decide that he did have some sort of an affair, even if it wasn't a full-blown sexual affair. It still hurts, and causes just as much pain and then some.<P>Because it wasn't a full blown sexual affair (based on your evidence) - your husband does feel he is justified in denying denying denying. He feels you have over reacted. You haven't over reacted, but he is in denial. This is the worst kind in my opinion, when they can believe in their own minds that what it was that they encountered - was not an affair.<P>Defining an affair may help your husband understand how you feel, but then again, it will probably make him defensive and drive him away.<P>So, you need to go to the "I feel" statements. Pretty hard to argue and justify with "I feel" statements during a discussion. But my husband does - so if that doesn't work, don't be surprised. <P>Blaming you for an unhappy marriage and leaving him vulnerable to an affair isn't fair. But regardless - part of what he is saying is true. Not that it is your fault, but that a marriage that isn't meeting your emotional needs does leave you vulnerable.<P>My suggestion is go to plan A, and then see if it helps. If it helps - then maybe you can figure out how to get a real commitment to the marriage from him again - and then go to basic concepts.<P>On the first page of the site, there are links to the plan A and B, and to basic concepts. Read all you can.<P>I'm glad you ended up at marriagebuilders, because you will get the help to restore your marriage.<P>God Bless, TNT

sadmv:<P>Listen to FHL, she knows what she's talking about, and has helped me immeasurably in keeping perspective.<P>Your H is never going to admit to having an affair if there was no sex involved. In his eyes, other physical contact "doesn't count." He may actually see this as "just a friendship", just as mine does with his, completely unaware of what a minefield it is. It's not an easy thing to live with. In my case. Dragon Lady was instrumental in getting him his current job, she knows a lot of people in the industry he's in, and since his job history over the year prior to working where he is now was less-than-stellar, she's a reference. So asking for "no contact" is just not reasonable.<P>Bottom line: He's not going to admit it, so stop nagging. TnT is right about "predisclosure Plan A" (which is not written about anywhere here), although I'd call it "nondisclosue Plan A", because nothing will ever be acknowledged.<P>If your H is a conflict avoider and noncommunicator, as mine is, couching this stuff as "I feel" isn't going to work either, because he'll HEAR "You did". Either he feels guilty so he's lashing back out at you, or he is in fact that clueless, and he's hurt that you don't trust him (however good your reasons may be).<P>I disagree with those who suggest "confronting" this woman, however "nice" you think you are while you do it. It's a lovebuster, and will just draw your H to her side against his b*tchy wife. Don't do it. Try to be included in gatherings where you know she'll be there. Plan A will help you get those invitations. Then ACT as a couple. TALK to her in no uncertain terms that you are a couple -- not in confrontation, but in ordinary conversation: "We did this, we did that, we're going to go here." Show her that you two are a unit.<P>I ultimately wrote my H a calm, rational letter detailing my feelings about Dragon Lady and why I have them. Did he get it? Somewhat, though not completely. It ain't easy, but what choice do we have?<P>Dazed (whose H just left for work -- again -- on a Saturday, and who is trying mightily to see it as an opportunity to get things done instead of worrying.)<BR>

It sounds to me like your h is a conflict avoider and you are a confronter. Same as my household, so yes your h will do whatever to not face your wrath. You need to start working on yourself! Your h is very close to the line, but all of your nagging will only push him closer. If he is willing, get Dr. Harley's book "His Needs, Her Needs." Sit down calmly with your h and tell him you are scared, love him and don't want to lose him. You feel really threatened by his relationship with ow. You realize that you are not meeting all of his needs and want to work on that. Don't go at him with demands for you. If ow was out of the way, is sounds like you would be quite happy. You are going to have to do the work right now. This will be tough because right after a baby is not a womans best time! Trust me, I had 3 babies in 4 yrs. so I know the demands. Another book that I have read that has been good is by Susan Page, "When one of you wants to Keep the Two of You Together." As unfair as this may be, you are the one that is going to have to do all of the work to begin with. I don't know if I would meet ow, that just seems to be asking for more trouble. Hang in there and get to work! You can make it through this with your marriage intact.

Thank you so much for your responses. It feels good to hear all the positive thoughts when you are wondering if you are being a fool for staying.<BR>I have another concern...I am the type of person that needs to be convinced or as close to it as possible to be able to let something go. If not, I will continue to disect it and go over it over and over again. There are still a couple of incidents that have happened when I look back where I am not convinced of his story. I have ways to dig and investigate that may give me an idea but will never give me something conclusive as to whether he's telling the truth about those incidents or not. Do I look into these things and continue digging or do I let it go (it sounds so easy!)<BR>Please advise!

Hi sadmv:<P>So sorry you are going through this. I wish I could tell you that he is not having an affair, but my experiences with my own husband has taught me that if you have a feeling that its happening...then its probably happening...you seem to have overwhelming evidence that he is...here is what went on with me......I have to say that I was in denial at the beginning and ignored some very obvious signs because I didn't think he could do this to me...but he did......<P>Here is what my H did:<P>1. Claimed to be have to "clean" the shop at night, after work, and this gave him an excuse to be late...he sent the rest of the staff home and he and slut stayed...for sex...<P>2. He was member of an ethnic "club" and would see his "buddies" on sunday nights...when he had actually made a secret call to her and she met him...he would come home at 1:00 and 2:00 AM...I never once followed him or checked in his car was in the parking lot of the "club"...just down the street from me.<P>3. They both had Monday off...she would go off with him for sex...shopping...and other appointments all day...while I cut the lawn for him on Saturday because I felt sorry for him...to be stuck doing it on his day off...needless to say...I do not lift a finger when it comes to yardwork anymore...I was at work and the kids were at school....what a deal.<P>4. He always talked about this employee and always acted defensively when I even remotely suggested that something might be going on...he would tell me that now that he has found the perfect employee...here I am creating problems for him...so..I would drop the subject to avoid an argument...<P>5. He would say things like "she is not just my employee she actually helps me run the place as an assistant manager and the customers love her because she is "nice" and "beautiful"...<P>6. I ignored my own daughter when she asked me "mom, do you think something is going on between dad and ****" I said to her "dont' be silly"....OW was so sweet to him that even she noticed it was "not normal"....<P>I ignored so many signs and let this thing go on for two years...I want to kick myself now....I almost left him....we had so many fights and I was so upset I lost over 20 pounds..........getting him to admit anything was a nightmare.....he always denied.....even<BR>today he has not come fully clean with me......I know he has contacts with her....I hope only phone....but....I am realistic enough to know that she will never really go away....they have known each other for 12 years as friends.....as soon as she separated from her husband she jumped into bed with my husband and viceversa.....I am excusing my husband's behavior in this.....he wanted to jump into bed too....he fought hard to keep me and the family together.....he did not want a divorce....his parents would never have forgiven him...his extended family would have lost all respect for him....his kids would never have forgiven him....his kids and his parents would never have accepted another woman in my place....he almost lost a lot....but....I know I have to live the rest of my life with doubts....and with this slut still in the picture....I wish she would die......<BR>sadforever

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>There are still a couple of incidents that have happened when I look back where I am not convinced of his story. I have ways to dig and investigate that may give me an idea but will never give me something conclusive<BR> as to whether he's telling the truth about those incidents or not. Do I look into these<BR> things and continue digging or do I let it go (it sounds so easy!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh, I know that syndrome full well. The questions you have to ask yourself are these: Do I want to know all the gory details? Am I PREPARED for what I might find out? Do I have a plan of action for what I might find out? Is there an innocuous explanation for what I might find out?<P>What are these overnighters your H does? Are they for work, or fun? If fun, can he include you?<P>My opinion is this, and it's based SOLELY on what I've done. I'm not out of the woods; I may never be. I still worry when my H goes to work on weekends (and while he didn't take me with him Saturday, he did Sunday), but I found that snooping just made me miserable.<P>I am in permanent nondisclosure Plan A. I cater to his every need. I am wonderful. I give him backrubs. We have great sex -- when HE wants it (which isn't as often as when I do). I'm almost always cheerful. I help him out. I ask his opinion on everything. Now, he's home when he's not working. Are all of my needs being met? Hell, no. But it DOES seem to have lessened his NEED for Dragon Lady, if not removing her entirely.<P>If you can, go into Plan A, sit tight, and be vigilant.

sadforever,<BR>What keeps me with a glimmer of hope (as faint as it is), is that he didn't do any of those things, there were never excuses for coming home late, he frequently has free time and he was either home working on some project or hanging out with my son...what I'm trying to say is that he had lost of opportunities to make time to see her (during working hours since she's married also) and he didn't. He could have easily made things up about having to work that I could not question. Even though I know some people work wonders during their lunch hours, I pretty much have him pegged when it comes to his daily activities unless he has gotten REALLY GOOD at lying to me (which I really doubt for obvious reasons, remember, he denies, denies, denies and it's up to me to sense that he's lying and go after the truth).<P>

Dazed and Confused,<BR>I'm probably not PREPARED but I have such a DESPERATE need to put all the loose ends together. We're not even talking about gory details because he's not admitting to a thing. I'm basically trying to put them at the same place at the same time on ocassions he has told me that she hasn't been there. So that's when I realize that even if I confirm my doubts of whether she was there or not, he can still stand firm on his position because "WHAT DOES THAT PROVE?" But it's so hard to give up. I must admit that while I was waiting for a reply I went ahead and attempted to dig but ran into a wall. I thought I had her cell # and was going to be able to pinpoint phone calls on those days I have questions about but it turns out it's her beeper (SHERLOCK FAILED THIS TIME) sooo...I wish I wasn't this relentless.<P>I'm to the point where (and please feel free to tell me if you think I'm sick) I am questioning an incident where I phoned another co-worker of his that I have known for years but really aren't friends with to question her about a time where he told me that he was working with her and had lunch with her( at the time that it actually took place I questioned the fact that it was her and not the OW, so after this last revelation, I REALLY WONDERED, if you know what I mean). The stories matched and that put me at ease...but now I am wondering whether he prepped her before I called her (not that he knew that I was, but maybe he figured)because #1 she said that thinks it was a couple of months ago (it has actually 5 months ago), #2, she mentioned that they had eaten italian but didn't mention the name of the place. Then again, I know myself and I know if it would have been exact to the T, I would have thought the same thing.<P>So am I sick or what?

Oh, sadmv, you and I could be twins. Oh, I understand your thought process perfectly...it's exactly the kind of thing I would do. And I still do it. Then I remind myself to step back.<P>Are you looking for reassurance that he's NOT having a full-blown affair, or evidence that he IS? And will ANYTHING, any amount of evidence, satisfy you that he's NOT, or will you keep digging, and driving yourself crazy, seeing conspiracies everywhere you go, until you become such a raving lunatic that he DOES go ahead and do it, because "he's got the name, he might as well play the game."<P>Sadmv, I know where you're coming from. Believe me, I do. Have you read my profile? I have been in nondisclosure Plan A since March, and at the very least, I have a better marriage. My H is still a lunkhead about his "friend", but at least I know that I'm keeping him happy at home.<P>Right now you can't tell what's real and what isn't anymore; you're seeing conspiracies around every corner and you're going to look like a nut.<P>Again, I say: Plan A, plan A, plan A. Be vigilant without driving yourself crazy. And let me know how it goes.<P>

D&C,<BR>I guess I am looking for evidence to convince myself that he didn't, but I am intelligent enough to realize that it is impossible to find evidence that will prove that. At the same time, unless there is a confession on his part, will I find evidence that will prove that he did. I'm glad to hear I have a twin out there...I really thought I was one of a kind. <BR>My H doesn't even admit to a friendship with her. He's so adamant and firm about it that it drives me crazy.<BR>His version of the entire situation is believable (one way attraction on his part, she doesn't give him the time of day, she's happily married, she is an easy distraction to his "HUM DRUM LIFE", etc.) but boy is my version believable too (it is a two way attraction, she is as unhappy in her marriage as he is, they have been carrying on for over a year and a half, she is aware of what's going on between us as a result of her (he claims that she has some idea b/c of the events that took place during their last "business" trip, but other than that she just thinks that I am an incredibly jealous person)). So I am on this fence needing something to push me either way but realize that the "something" I so desperately need doesn't exist. But who's going to tell my heart and my mind that?? I know I have been trying to for the last 7 wks but haven't done a very good job of it.<P>I more or less understand what this Plan A is all about and realize how helpful it must be (without labelling it Plan A, that is what my friends, my mom and the priest that married us advised that I do), but there is such a great BRICK wall inside of me stopping me from doing that, almost as if I were protecting myself from playing the fool. I can tell myself that I need to be more affectionate and fun-loving and all those good things that supposedly keeps a man happy and truly believe it's what I should do, but when I even contemplate acting this way, I realize it's not going to come naturally and since I am basically an open book, that it is going to be obvious to him how forced those actions are. Then I wonder if they will ever be natural and from the heart, or will I always have this overwhelming force inside of me saying,"You SOB, look at everything you've done (or I think you've done), how I can I possibly be so luvvy-duvvy with you?" <BR>I can wake up one day or finish reading a positive reply in this forum and feel super positive and think to myself, "It's not as bad as I think it is, I can get through this", but just give me a couple of minutes and I can be imagining this huge torrid love affair and have every piece fit into each other to the point where I am convinced that it happened just the way I am imagining it and make myself sick to my stomach and feel such hatred and resentment towards him that would be apparent to him if he were to call me at that moment in time. How do I control myself and my thought? <BR>I'm scared that I can't.