I know that I am probably going to take some flak with this post.<P>In fact, with well meaning intentions to encourage and uplift, on a previous post, someone responded concerning my reply that..<BR>SATAN WAS OPERATING THROUGH ME AND NOT GOD!<P>As I have read over the many boards/posts/replies here....I have heard the heart rending cries of spouses desperate to see their marriages restored/healed.<P>Also, it is encouraging to me that what I feel are the majority of those who post/reply are true Christians that really love the Lord.<P>What I have seen in many of the posts are desperate cries for help, for answers. Sad but true...many of these cries are coming from people looking to people, instead of going to the One and Only Source who has the answers....God.<P>I know the Lord works THROUGH people, but always remember, people are just CHANNELS but God is the SOURCE!<P>I know from my own past experience, how many times I put my eyes on people, looking to people for answers instead of looking to Jesus. It is very easy to do!<P>First of all, let me be so bold as to say to anyone posting on Marriage Builders, if you are not a Christian or at least someone who believes in God and prayer....human wisdom without God's Wisdom will just leave you empty and frustrated.<P>I don't want to attack Psychology or Christian Counseling but let's all remember WHO the True Counselor is... The Holy Spirit!<P>To those who are looking ONLY to counseling and Psychology there is a limit to their ability. In the end there must be a power stronger than ourselves.<P>Many support groups including Marriage Builders do an outstanding job at exposing deep-seated problems and offering methods of treating them.<P>However, much of the mental and physical energy exhibited goes to maintaining the process or perhaps treating the symptoms (i.e. cutting off the branches instead of getting to the root).<P>In Christ, you and I can receive COMPLETE HEALING because He alone is our unchanging strong support!<P>Let me cite a good example: I do believe the Lord is in the business of restoring homes, marriages & relationships. However, the mistake many 'well-meaning' Christian Counselors and even Pastors make is.....<BR>"let's get this couple back together at any cost"....<P>Although this sounds noble, it could be disastrous if both aren't ready to come back together.<P>Even the Bible says "New wine can not be put into old wineskins" and "No one puts a NEW patch on an OLD garment".<P>I hear desperate pleas on this board from both men/women wondering "how can I get my spouse back?"<P>We all, me included (and I have for 3-1/2 years of marital separation) need to deal with the issues IN US that caused our spouse to leave.<P>This is why I so appreciate the wisdom of so many that post on MB in saying that we need to concentrate on what needs to be changed IN us and forget about out spouse!<P>I believe it is wrong for us to pray "Lord, change my wife/husband"....instead we should pray..."Lord, CHANGE ME!"<P>I have quoted this one scripture many times in different posts but I sometimes wonder if anybody is listening...HELLLLOOOOO!<P>Psalms 127:1 "Unless the Lord build the house (restore the marriage), they that labor, labor in vain"<P>When my wife first left back in 96' I remember telling a brother in Christ who, with his wife was really used of the Lord to 'counsel' me.... "I guess my heart will be broken until Dee (my wife) comes back"<P>Then he said the most interesting thing that really got my attention. He said, "Oh, Dee is the healer of broken hearts".<P>Ooops! Get the point?<P>People can't heal broken hearts, only God can heal broken hearts.<P>Psalms 147:3 "He heals the broken hearted and binds up their wounds"<P>In closing, I am not against Christian Counselors but I feel they are meant to be a means to an end and not the end. Here is what I mean.<P>Many times, we can't stand on our own and get the victory for ourselves. We need help. Perhaps we are too shattered/battered/bruised or broken and we need someone.<P>However, I believe it is God's ultimate goal for us to be able to stand on our own and learn to rely directly on the Lord and quit always looking to man.<P>I believe there comes a time when we, as Christians need to quit needing 'hands laid on us' and we become 'the hands laid on' or:<BR>we need to get out of the prayer line of always having to have someone pray over us and we begin our own prayer line and begin to pray over others.<P>In closing (sorry, didn't mean for this to be an epistle); one of the causes of my wife leaving wasd I was co-dependent upon her. She was my security and I was 'addicted' to her.<P>When she left, I transferred the co-dependency over to other people (friends) and ruined several relationships!<P>Like a tire with a slow leak in it, that needs air every couple of days; I had a slow leak in me and I depended upon people to <BR>FIX ME every day so I could make it through til night.<P>I had to have my 'daily fix' of people to hold me up, reassure me etc/etc. Finally, in His Tough Love, the Lord stripped me of every relationship and I had to learn to stand on my own and go directly to the Lord!<P>As one famous Bible teacher has said so well:<BR>"When you get in trouble, do you run to the<BR>PHONE or to the THRONE?"<P>Remember, only God can restore a broken marriage and only God can heal a broken heart.<P>God is no respector of persons, His grace will work in any situation...no matter how hopeless.<P>[censored]

Added thought to above post.<P>If it seems like I am pointing a finger at anyone who posts on MB, remember, I have 4 fingers pointing back at me!<P>In other words, I am talking to myself as well and I need to hear what I have to say and more than that....I need to practice what I say!<P>Just wondered, if we all spent as much time talking/sharing the SOLUTION instead of the PROBLEM, where would we be?<P>In other words, let's look to the Lord (SOLUTION) instead of constantly being bogged down in the problem.<P>Also, food for thought: The more you talk about something, the more you think about it. The more you think about it, the more you talk about!<P>Some of us need to 'fast' our words and quit discussing our situations and just turn them over to Jesus!<P>Ouch! this hits me too!<P>[censored]

Today is my 33rd Wedding Anniversary and I have been 'separated' for 3-1/2 years.<P>I am still believing for restoration and to all who are separated at this time and don't feel you can make it....take it from me, YOU CAN!<P>God's Grace has carried me thus far and will carry you!<P>[censored]

I have been "lurking" here for months and after reading your message feel complelled to respond. I am going thru much the same thing as you, only JUST 7 months.<P>God is definately revealing things to me about myself. I thought in the beginning of this separation, and before, that I was doing everything right. I now realize that I thought I could "save" my husband. I was putting him before God in my life. So, I am learning a difficult, but necessary lesson. <BR>(read My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers - July 28 and 29).<P>I will be praying for you and your wife<P>dls

dls<P>Hey.....thanks for the response! It was the first on this subject.<P>I read your profile and ouch....31 years of marriage, that's a looooong time! Then you can understand me at 33 years not being willing to give up.<P>We have both heard many times what sounds like a glib, little statement but still says it all:<P>LET GO AND LET GOD! (Easier said than done)<P>At least both my wife and I are believers; while you have the added burden of not only standing for your marriage but for your husband's salvation.<P>I have almost come to the conclusion that God doesn't wake up or even begin to go to work on our behalf...UNTIL we totally give up, let go and let the dream/vision die!<P>Oh, have I had to learn this lesson in much pain, having fallen flat on my face so many times!<P>I know this might only sound like words, but it comes from the heart. You've been separated 7 months and you're hurting..but it does get better/better. Remember, Grace is God'ss enabling power to take us through situations that in our own strength..seem hopeless and unbearable.<P>Blessings to you my sister!<P>[censored]<P>P.S.<P>What do you mean 'lurking'? I see that term from time to time. Does it mean you've just been reading/observing without responding?

Yes, just reading and trying to learn how to get through this. Actually some of the problems my husband and I are having (this time) started on the internet. So, I'm not always comfortable corresponding this way. I know first hand where this CAN lead.<P>I guess I felt comfortable answering this because you know God, and your message was something God has been dealing with me about.<P>I, too, am a people person and depend on others to get me through. This last week I have been alone. Our youngest son (17) is on a missions trip and our other two are on their own already. I have had a really difficult time being alone, but everywhere I turn God is telling me to put him first. That HE is my beloved. That's why when I read your post I felt so strongly I needed to respond. If it was for no one else, it was for me and for that I thank you. For being obedient and sharing from your heart.<P>God bless you.<BR>dls<P>Thanks for your response. God bless you/

dls<P>I appreciate your response and I assure you, I understand your 'caution' to post on the inter-net.<P>I'll share with you something that just recently happened to me in posting here. I began sharing back & forth with someone who is separated from their husband.<P>I shared pretty much what you've read. She would respond, then I would respond. Then, it turned to e-mails.<P>It seemed there was a common bond between us and I had asked for her address to send her my testimony in the hopes it might help her husband who seemed to be struggling with some of the same things I had.<P>To make a long story short, I ended up calling her and we spoke for 4 hours. Without meaning to, our hearts became entangled and we had what I term an 'EMOTIONAL AFFAIR'.<P>I've heard it said and it applies to me that "I am ripe for an affair". This is why we both had to go back to square one and realize our initial purpose in communicating with one another was to uplift the other in their situation. In other words, she is married and I am married.<P>Not only that, but I am not willing to throw away 33 years of marriage and 4 beautiful children.<P>I have taken the stance that I will wear my wedding ring and believe for restoration, if it means I am still separated when the trumpet blows!<P>This is a 'grace' God is giving me but as you have just heard, I am still weak and vulnerable.<P>Don't know why I shared all this with you, but if it ministers to you, fine; if not, then just trash it!<P>May I share a verse with you from Philemon which may apply to your situation. Paul is addressing Philemon about the slave, Onesimus.<P>"Perhaps it was for this reason that he was separated from you for a season, that you might have him back forever as yours"<P>Perhaps during the separation is a time the Lord can reach your husband. It does say, how can 2 walk together unless they be agreed.<P>He has to find Jesus for HIMSELF! Then, he has to begin to become the high priest or man of God, God intended.<P>Please don't think I am being negative in what I am about to say; but even divorce doesn't mean it's over! Divorce is only a piece of paper that means nothing to God.<P>Perhaps your husband needs to hit rock bottom and become desperate before he will wake up.<BR>In the meantime, you don't need to be 'Holy Ghost, Jr' - God doesn't need your help (or mine).<P>You let Him work on you and deal with you in areas that need to be dealt with. When we first separated, someone told me (and I agree) that I shouldn't pray 'Lord, change my wife' but rather should pray 'Lord, change ME'<P>By the way, are your children Christians? <BR>Also, if you feel free to share, I see by your profile that you work at a Christian University. Which one?<P>Anyway, hope something I've shared might minister to you.<P>Blessings upon you.<P>[censored] from Texas<P>P.S.<P>Have you ever heard of Joyce Meyer? If so, her message/ministry has literally sustained me over the past 3+ years.

Yes, two of our children are Christians. The third is not and could use prayer. <P>I prayed last fall "whatever it takes, Lord" to bring my husband to his knees. After the seperation I was praying and the Lord said to me "this is what you prayed for". (I hope this doesn't sound too crazy) So, I know God is in this.<P>I am praying for God to change me. This site has helped me with the worldly changes I need to make. I'm counting on God to take care of the spiritual.<P>Yes, I do know who Joyce Meyer is. Have heard her myself. Just finished a book by Gary Chapman titled "Hope for the Seperated". If you haven't read it you might want to. It helped me.<P>Again, thanks for the response and your words of encouragement. Especially the scripture verse. <P>I also looked at your profile. I will continue to pray and hope you will do the same. Sometimes it's easier to pray for someone else. This hurt is too close.....<P>God bless...<P>dls

dls<P>Have heard it said 'we better watch what we pray for....we might just get it'<P>So, God answered your prayer from last fall, but maybe not in the way you expected.<P>I can somewhat relate to this in that I know now that my wife leaving me was of the Lord. This might sound like heresy in some Christian circles. They would say 'brother, it was the devil!'<P>I know now if my wife hadn't left me, I wouldn't be the man I am today. Even my wife told me she didn't want to leave but it was for my own good!<P>I am discouraged that it has been so long, but I Praise God for everything that has happened during the separation...must say it has produced positive results.<P>This is why I am an advocate of separation in lieu of divorce. Separation can be a positive force.<P>Glad you have heard of Joyce Meyer and I would encourage you to ingest as much of her teaching as possible during this time in your life.<P>Bless you!<P>[censored]

[censored],<BR>I am 100% in your corner. Though I am only 36, I hvae been praying that He would change me in some way that she would be able to see Him first and me second. I am often accused of putting book knowledge ahead of letting God do His business. I beg to differ. I have found that God will reveal to me the idea before I go to a book to verify my thoughts with others because I have found that the people I am ususally around have not thought methodically with the help of th Holy Spirit to truly understand the topic being studied. I know God does answer prayer because He allowed our paths to cross. He is using you in a mighty way.<P>You are right about US needing to change. I have found that WE humans want everyone else to change rather than us change so that others can SEE HIM rather than US. We are hedonistic and narcissitic by our very nature which is sinful as you have stated, though not in the same wording. We need to stop focusing on ourselves and start focusing on others. We must put ALL others first, it is at that point that we have truly become a Christian. I have found that there are very few true Christians. And you know them by their fruit. They often sound very cold and hard because the worldly (professed) Christian has itching ears and only wants to hear that which makes them feel good (hedonism).<P>Keep fighting the good fight.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Rob<P>Thanks for the kind words and I am happy if anything I've shared has helped, encouraged or confirmed you.<P>May I say a hearty, "God Bless" to you as well!<P>By the way, you sound like a 'well-read' person and the PROFESSORG seems to fit you!<P>[censored]

[censored],<BR>Thank you as well. Because I went to the Air Force Academy, I had to take loads of classes on a great deal of topics. Most of the well-readness came from undergraduate studies and my never ending quest for God's truth. Most of what I post are my meditation on His word and how it ties in with our current world which we both know is going to be replaced with a new earth. I pray continually and rely on the understanding that He gives me. I give Him all the glory and honor for how I come across because without Him I am nothing.<BR><P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

Hey guys....<P>Go over to CB's string...he's desperate and needs some support.... could you all email him and help him out?? You probably could do it a lot better than I could.<P>Thanks for considering it....<P>Ramy

At times I am overwhelmed with the desperate cries and situations posted on MB, especially on this board.<P>The Bible warns us "not to let things slip that we have learned/heard" (Hebrews).<P>I think it would be good for all who have posted on this string + anyone else who has posted on WHY WOMEN LEAVE MEN, to go back to my initial post here dated July 21st and re-read it.<P>I think there are many who could use a refresher course (including me) that people don't have answers, only God has the answer to whatever we are facing in our marriages and relationships.<P>However, because we are human, those of us who embrace the Christian faith, we sometimes feel as though God has fallen asleep at the wheel and we take matters into our own hands.<P>We forget that wonderful verse in Psalms<BR>that says "Unless the Lord builds the house, they that labor, labor in vain" (127:1)<P>I am grieved to continually read the desperate plights of people here who are grasping for straws, looking to man instead of God, many refusing to follow the advice and counsel of those who respond to their posts.<P>I'm sorry but the most valiant efforts of man, as noble as they may seem, WITHOUT the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, produce only limited results which will not last.<P>The best definition of 'HUMANISM' I can think of is, 'humanism basically says I can do it without God's help'. Not only is there Secular Humanism, but there is also Spiritual Humanism.<P>Spiritual Humanism is practiced by many Christians who believe they can change their situation by works of the flesh, behaviour modification or turning over a new leaf. <P>Jesus is the True Vine and we are only branches..apart from Him, we can do NOTHING!<P>I have learned in my own experience that the EASIEST thing to do is to do SOMETHING, while the HARDEST thing to do is to do NOTHING!<P>We always feel like we have to be doing something to change our spouse's or our situations.<P>So few people really know how to 'rest' and trust God (again, I am speaking to myself as well). The evidence of Faith is REST!<P>It sounds 'trite & glib' but it is still truth: We all need to "Let Go & Let God".<P>You can't change your spouse because change has to come from 'within' and only the Holy Spirit of God can get inside someone.<P>Also, if you are separated from your spouse and you are believing for restoration; you have no business dating, period!<P>Dating while separated is like playing around on a slippery river bank, you are probably gonna fall in! Dating while separated sends mixed signals as well and makes you a double minded individual (again, this only applies to those like me who are believing for eventual restoration).<P>Remember, only the Lord can make a way where there seems to be no way, only the Lord can cause rivers of water to flow in the desert and only the Lord can make the crooked places straight (quotes from Isaiah).<P>I have learned (the hard way) that it is only when we come to the very end of ourselves, when we have exhausted all means of trying to solve our own problems, that God takes over.<P>God doesn't need your help! God doesn't need my help! So many here that I read about are literally pushing their spouses further away by pursuing them, pressuring them, giving them ultimatums etc/etc.<P>The best definition I've heard for INSANITY is doing the same things over and over and expecting different results each time!<P>God gave us all a FREE WILL and even the Lord will NEVER cross our free will. Your spouse, my spouse has a free will and we have to be willing to let them exercise their free wills even if they make poor choices.<P>I just felt impressed to restate the truth that ONLY GOD CAN RESTORE A MARRIAGE AND ONLY GOD CAN HEAL A BROKEN HEART.<P>I hope this has helped somebody!<P>[censored]

Dear [censored],<P>Thank you. After reading your original message I must say that you will not gat any flak. Thank you for sounding what I have felt during this difficult period of my life.<P>I only made my mind up to separate after I spent 3 ugly weeks fighting with my wife ... trying to "reason" with her ... feeling a lot of anger, self-pity and contempt. <P>She declined to see a counselor giving different reasons at different occasions. Then I walked ... and lost over 15 lbs in just 2 weeks. <P>I was badmouthing her to anyone who was dear to me. My pastor, friends both Christian and not. I was spurting out my anger, my hurt, everything MINE. Which also, as it always happens, eventually got back to her. She was very mad for making our problem public. I could not grasp this, as my life was falling apart... so I had to find encouragement and empathy. Or so I thought.<P>In just a few weeks I went through all emotions a man can have - anger, self-pity, more anger, love, hatred ... then I snapped and felt nothing. As this was happening, my wife tried to restore the relationship, and even suggested counseling, which was denied when I offered it. My hurt and my pride did not let me accept her hand.<P>Now it is her that is separated from me. Hurting badly, as she cannot deal with her hurt, her pain. And, she is not a christian.<P>After I surrendered the circumstances to the Lord (and it was already too late) He started peeling me like an onion, showing me layer by layer how I destroyed our marriage and love.<P>Your message is 100% true. This is how I feel now, after a lot of tears and prayer.<P>BUT, God, help us act on what is written there. I know I must walk myself... without the cheap high of getting "encouragement" ... but I find it very hard to practise.<P>Thank you , and God bless you<P>Frankie

Before this slips off the page into the archives, I felt there might be some more people that might benefit from what I and others have shared.<P>[censored]

I just want to thank you [censored] for sharing.<BR>I believe you can love someone to much, Jesus said we must leave father mother sister brother Husband Wife etc. and follow me, Jesus must come first, then our mate. <BR>My husband just ended a 8 months long emotional affair with another women. We are both Christians and We both listen to Joyce Meyer He opened up the door to be deceived by talking to other women on the computer and Satan throw him the bait and He took it. But I stayed with him through all the emotional pain and He admits now that Satan tried to destroy us, we have been married 21 years. I praise God that He is faithful, God told me not to leave him, even though people in and out of church told me they could not handle what I was going through and said I should leave. Even though it was painful God has turned around what Satan meant for our harm<BR>Satan had convinced my husband it was ok as long as he wasn't having sex with the other woman. But I just kept walking In love thats the only way the power of God can move, and just because you cry dosen't mean you don't believe God, when you fall down you get back up again. I sang alot of Praises to God I talked to people in church and kept on keeping on, and made it through the srorm. I had to love my husband enough to let him go,<BR>Thats how much God loves us He dosen't force anything on us, He loves us enough to let us go to Hell if we want to. <BR>Like you said [censored] God is our source not people, God is our source of Happieness not people, We have to learn to be Happy no matter what the other one does. I learned the hard way I'm not my husbands mommy I'm not his Judge and I'm not Holy Ghost Junior.<BR>To God be the Glory!<P>------------------<BR>Carla

Carla<P>Thanks so much for your response, it meant alot to me. To be honest, I have all but quit posting and responding here. <P>I'm not crying 'sour grapes' because I don't feel I got the response I'd hoped for on this thread, it's just that it seems people that I thought were really believers and were trusting God to restore their marriages, keep rehashing their problems.<P>Some of these people I have responded to and tried to encourage. However it seems that some people would rather continually talk the problem instead of the solution (Jesus Christ).<P>It got discouraging to respond to some of these situations, pour out my heart and even get a 'thank you [censored], I agree with you'. Yet, a day or two later, these same people are right back where they were, rehashing the same problems.<P>So, I decided to back off and not respond.<P>In my 3-1/2 year separation, because I made so many mistakes; I have had to learn the hard way to not talk about the PROBLEM, but focus on the SOLUTION (The Lord).<P>I rarely ever discuss my situation anymore because I know there is nothing I can do. The more you talk about something, the more you think about it; the more you think about it, the more you talk about it.<P>I hurt for the people that post here, but for now I believe the Lord has told me to back off in responding. <P>I am not a marriage counselor, but I am a man who has learned alot in the past 3+ years and I had hoped I could have helped others by sharing my experiences.<P>Carla, I too am a devoted Joyce Meyer fan. Her ministry/message has changed my life over the past 3+ years. I have many of her tapes, both audio/video.<P>You said you thought you could love someone too much...I don't know about that, but I understand where you are coming from. <P>I have heard it said and I agree, that THE MORE YOU NEED SOMEONE, THE LESS YOU CAN LOVE THEM.<P>In my opinion, for a married man to chat with women on the internet and have an 'emotional' affair, is the same as a 'sexual affair'. I fell into that trap recently myself and had what I called a 2 day emotional affair. <P>The Lord really convicted me and I saw how wrong I was.<P>I haven't dated at all during my separation (even though I have wanted to). A good friend of mine told me that 'dating while separated is like playing around on a slippery river bank (you're gonna fall in!)'<P>From your reply, it sounds like you and your husband are still together; if you are both Joyce Meyer fans, she has some excellent tapes on Marriage.<P>One of the most difficult things I have had to swallow (and still choke on); is that God gives us a FREE WILL and He will not cross our wills. He gives us room to make mistakes and wrong choices and we have to be willing to do the same with people (especially our mates).<P>Anyway, thank you again for responding and giving me this opportunity to share with you.<P>[censored] from Texas<P><BR>

[censored] - <BR>You have mentioned a couple of times about Emailing and responding to another person regarding your situations on this site and have referred to is as an "emotional affair". I don't agree that because two people (and one just happens to be male and one female) are legitimately discussing their problems and trying to help one another out with their spouses and problems that its an "emotional affair". We're all doing that every day here on MB, male talking to female - its no different than "chat" - we're talking about our marriages and our problems. Those are not affairs. Now, when your willing to let it go further than the conversation and talking; yes, I agree, but not for what you said it was. I don't see that as emotional affair. Just my 2 cents.

Carla,<BR>It is nice to see another fellow Christian post. God is goodl all the time and all the time God is good. He is always on time and provides us a way out. AS far as loving to much, only if you try to do it from the worldly perspective. When you do it from God's perspective, you have reached the greatest possible love you can give because it only comes from Him. Once you love them enough to let them go then you know that you have arried at letting God's love flow through you like the the living water that He spoke to the lady at the well about. <P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>