To all my dear friends, I am overwhelmed at your responses. I thank you for your compassion towards me.<P>Lostva - thank you for your comments. Sometimes I wonder if I'm an inspiration or not. <P>Sheba - OK, I'll crawl out from under the desk. It smells kinda funny under there anyway. thank you so much for the hugs they mean so much.<P>NSR - Thank you for the references. One thing I have realized is that no matter what prodding I do, she (the betrayer) has to be the one to let go. She isn't ready to do that yet. She honestly believes she can maintain just a friendship with this guy. As many of the other women have eluded to, this is one of the key ingredients that made the affair so enticing - the friendship aspect. I will touch on Plan B later in this post.<P>Sweetpea - I know we start recovery over each time - she just doesn't see it and as I stated she seems content. <P>Maya - Well what can I say to you? I jumped down your throat last week about the way you feel towards your marriage. I suppose I was lashing out at you with things I wanted to say to my wife. I have always thought that you two share similar feelings in this regard. You, however, have removed the OM from the formula - so God bless you for that. Maybe she is trying to wear me down. She's doing a good job. The primary thing that confuses me is the long term talks we have. She wants to go to europe with me this summer and is looking forward to going. She wants us to move into a nicer house and we have actually started looking together. There's the paradox in this whole thing. I guess I want to say I'm sorry for jumping on your case last week. I continue to learn each day as to the destruction infidelity can do.<P>Apollo13 - I've started reading some of your posts. You are on the other side of the fence completely from me, in fact, I suppose you are some what like my W's OM. He's married too and I'm not sure his wife even knows what he did. My wife has always been an incredibly strong lady. Able to overcome huge obstacles. But this, she's addicted and she doesn't see the hurt it causes.<P>Wasstubborn - Thank you. I need to reestablish my old friendships. I have basically forsaken everyone in trying to win my wife back. I also need to do something for myself again. <P>Nlitend - Hey buddy, gosh I haven't heard from you in a while. Thanks for posting to me. I'm going to touch on Plan B later in this post since so many asked the same question. As far as depression goes, I think you are right. I have stepped up on my St John's Wort dosage, but I feel that isn't going to be enough. <P>Paul Moyers - Your post hit me hard. You are so right. Why is it my prayer time wanes when things go well. I think God still is working something in me I wish I knew what. Why can't I be happier in my marriage? Gosh, a year ago I would be overjoyed to be to this point. Paul, I lean on "give and it will be given unto you…" but it's just not coming from my wife. Maybe I'm missing out on where it is coming from - I don't know. <P>Keystone - thanks. I hesitated in posting at all because I know my situation is better than some, and that I should be thankful for what I have. <P>new_beginning - The moon? Maybe you're right. Add in PMS and some level of withdrawal and I guess you see where she is at. Thanks for caring. Dang this is so tough.<P>Roll Me Away - What a great post. You want what I want. I am weary and I guess we are in a stalemate. Why isn't she unhappy? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But, if he chooses a life without me, do I believe there is no one else in this world?? No, there will be another in time for me if my H doesn't want me. Do you believe there will be a life and a love for SHA if things don't work out with the wife you dearly love??<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've thought about this. It still hurts so much to think that my wife betrayed our vows. That she gave herself to another. As for me, I just can't see myself holding any other woman in my arms. I can only imagine life without my wife and it comes up a lot. But, I never see myself with another. I just don't think I'm capable of marriage again. I'm willing to give this one everything I have, but if it doesn't work, then I would probably stay on my own. I believe Monogamy is a myth and I just couldn't go through this again.<P>To all - I have thought about plan B. Early on in this mess, my wife was ready to move out. We even found an apartment for her. But, she decided to stay for the kids. Our kids don't know what has happened. The oldest (a teenager) thought we were going to get a divorce about this time last year. We were able to squelch that concern. He didn't know why we were having troubles, he could only see there was a problem. Now, they think mommy and daddy are just really happy with one another. So, my dilemma is this; my wife would not move out. She would say "if you are that unhappy, then you go". And I can't leave my kids. I would be the bad guy. Either of us leaving would completely crush them. My wife is a wonderful mother. I think I'm a great father. Plan B would destroy that. We have one son in counseling now due to emotional problems he is having at night. <P>My wife refuses to talk about "us". It's all been said in her mind. She will listen to me but not say anything about herself. I meet a lot of her needs. She gets a friend to talk to every day. She gets loads of touching from me. I make a ton of money (I'm baffled by how much money I make sometimes) and so our lifestyle is pretty comfy. She basically wants for nothing. I'm a good father to our kids. She thinks we are doing OK. She thinks we are working on our marriage. I have even heard her give advice to one of her friends who was having problems and she basically told her to do some of the things I'm doing not what she's doing. <P>I don't know. If someone out there has done a Plan B with kids, I'm interested in how you did it. As I said before, if anyone would have to leave the house it would be me. I did tell my wife several months ago, that if I found out she was intimate with this guy or anyone again then that would be it for me. I would leave. I could not put up with that any more. <P>Thanks for help, your insight, and your hugs (they are about the only ones I get now adays).<P>SHA

SHA, my friend, I feel very, very bad for you and wish there was something I could say to cheer you up. I don't like the idea of taking anti-deps, but maybe, since your depression sounds pretty severe at times, you might want to consider this. Also, maybe, some talk therapy for yourself (Sorry, but forget offhand whether you and W are doing couples work? Doesn't sound like you are.)<P>You're aware, I know, of how similar our situations are. (Paul M's and nlitend's too.) Practically the only difference is that I don't know who the OM is and my W hasn't yet admitted that there is one, despite my repeated confrontations of her about this. I think the worst part is just as you describe it. That is, the lack of sexual interest that your W shows in you. It's exactly the same for me. So we both know how hurtful it feels for me to be holding my W in bed in the morning after waking up, and then, when I try and get a little excitement going, for her to say, "I've got to get up." (My W won't even kiss me on the lips any more for longer than 1-2 secs and even that's hard to come by!)<P>Know what? I've finally accepted that my W no longer has any sexual interest in me because she's given that part of herself completely to the OM. After our last couples session (no more, thank God!) where our counselor actually encouraged us to split, I think I've even accepted the idea that if she wants to go, I'm going to let her go. (I wanted to kill the guy - our couples counselor - and am refusing to go to a holiday party where he and his W are going to be.) W and I are staying together now basically for practical reasons as it sounds like you and your W are too (at least from her side). So I know how frustrating and hurtful it is for you, because my W still really turns me on even though it's no longer reciprocal. (I'd stay in her 24/7 if possible!)<P>This is the woe that is marriage, man. I keep from getting seriously depressed by focusing on work when I'm at work, and then focusing on my own stuff at home. It's the best I can tell you. Regards, blessings, and all my wishes for a turn for the better in your situation, my friend. (Also thanks for all the great words of support you've given me and many others on the forum.)<P>--Wex

SHA, the long-term talk shows ME that she's content to live in this comfortable situation. I wish I could get to THAT point. Evidently she doesn't HATE being around you ... or she'd not be interested in going to Europe. <P>Maybe she's just looking at this life as a meal ticket .... sorry to be so blunt. Perhaps she realizes that she cannot have that with the OM .... and doesn't want to live alone .... so she's "made peace" with her feelings.<P>As long as you're willing to live like this, she's not gonna rock the boat. Be prepared to NOT be on the receiving end of having YOUR needs met.<P>I know how she feels though. I'm right there too. But I'm willing to be alone. I want to be alone ....

SHA,<P>You asked why your W isn't unhappy? I think Sheba pegged it. She gets many of her needs met by you - family, financial, whatever else and others met by the OM -emotional, conversation, whatever else. She is as content as can be UNDER the circumstances. If it was an option, I will bet she would continue the affair and stay at home if you would let her. My H actually told me he would do this. HA! FAT CHANCE!!<P>I think you have to face this: you either have to accept this level of what she will give you (because she is comfortable exactly where she is, and she WON'T change that comfort zone)or you have to decide this is not acceptable to you and you want more.<P>I am doing PlanB because I want more. You have to balance what is important to you against what you will get with either option. Unfortunately, looks like he changing to want to actively work on your marriage is not one of the options available to you. This is between a rock and a hard place - I know - I am there. All you can do is evaluate your options aginst your values and then come up with the best answer for SHA, under the current circumstances.<P>You are SUCH a NICE GUY!!!!!! I would give alot to have a H who could love me the way you obviously love your W and value your family. No matter what happens, you will personally TRIUMPH. No one can endure all this and not become a better person in the end.....<P>Roll Me Away<P>

SHA:<P>I'm going to encourage you to give Steve Harley a call, and to start counseling with him. To the best of my recollections, you haven't really done any formal counseling yet, and with the "tons of money" at your disposal, the financial strain aspect won't be an issue.<P>It may indicate to your wife that you're really serious about wanting this marriage to be great. Talking to Steve will give you some help and insight---at least, it always did for me. And it may convince your wife to start participating in the counseling process, and that would be a tremendous help.<P>You should consider antidepressants at this point. No excuses---get to a doctor. Otherwise you won't be much good for yourself or your family.<P>You ask about Plan B with kids. I was in your situation (well, my wife's affair was "out" and continuing). After a good effort in Plan A, I had to leave for my own sake. If you get to the point of Plan B (please talk with Steve before you do this), you will probably have to prepare to leave. It'd be great if your wife offered to leave, but it's probably not going to happen.<P>In this situation, plan B was a complete nightmare for me. I couldn't fathom leaving my kids. I figured that I would never have them "daily" in my life ever again. How could anything be worse??? But I also knew that it was time, and that if I stayed, I would be trapped in a marriage that would quickly deteriorate. There are no guarantees when you go to Plan B; it's like stepping off of a cliff in pitch blackness. You may drop 6". You may drop 6 miles. You can't possibly know. But there are times where it's completely appropriate.<P>I don't think you're quite there yet. But I think you're in a situation similar to Maya. So I'll urge you to get treatment for depression, and to start counseling with Steve Harley. <P>Maybe if you'd both follow my "script", we could get to the happy ending part... <P>God bless.<P>

Why can't SHA leave AND take the kids with him?<P>

Hi SHA-<P>I'm not here a whole lot, but I always look forward to reading a post from you. You are a wonderful person and have meant a lot to us who need a kind word of wisdom once in a while.<P>I don't know how you can tear them away from eachother, but that's definitely the problem. I will pray for you and that your wife's heart changes and she sees the truth, that YOU are the one for her and not the dufus she's in la-la land with. I hope you can snap out of the depression soon, even tho I know how hard it is. God bless to you.<P><BR>Kathy

Maya who pissed on your paper again? I believe SHA wishes his marriage to work and he stated that his W is a wonderful mother. Are you a good mother? How would you feel if your H took your kids and left. SHA is in a really tough spot.<P>To have so much love, so much emotion, and have it pulled in so many directions. God, family, W, kids, one's self.<P>Only one of these will win out SHA, after He as everything else will fall in place. I just wish I knew what to say to help you get there. To help us all get there. We do tend to take for granted what God has given us when things are well just as we take our spouse for granted when they are with us. Only difference is that God will never leave us. We may leave Him, but He will never leave us.<P>In helping others SHA I think you help yourself. You may be your best help right now. I'll remember you in my prayers<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul, do you think we get to cuss in heaven?

LOL! No, I don't think so. Why do you ask?

Well, it's so funny to see you cussing AND quoting scriptures.

Are you attacking me personally? I did not realise I was cussing. I assume you are speaking of piss, again I did not know this was considered cussing. If I have offended you I apologize.

My apologies SHA for using your serious post for such a stupid and trivial reply.

Sir HA,<BR>now that sheba got you to come out from under the desk, wassy perscribed exercise ( and I agree with it completley ) and all the nice people in here gave you their support, there isn't much that I can add.<BR>But I just want to tell you that I'm thinking of you, and I'm sorry you're feeling down.<P>Well, maybe I can say something else after all <BR>A couple of weeks ago it was "her" birthday. Now I have no reason to worry about that. Things are still great with us and he's even considering looking for another job. But I suddenly felt pretty depressed, and when I did, it seemed that everything was going wrong. It felt like he was distant again, it felt like he was avoiding sex, it felt like ...I don't know how it felt. It wasn't real though, or at least not in that way ( yes he was having a rough time at work, yes he was quite tired and would fall asleep even before getting to bed , but it had nothing to do with her , neither was or marriage shaky again. AS I pushed myself off the depression train, thing were still looking as good as they have been lately.<BR>SO do things that you enjoy - try to include her if she wants - , exercise, and chek with the doctor for the depression thing. It might help.<P>A big hug<P>Kat<P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.

Uggghhhhh, what a day. Shades of six months ago dance through my head. The knotted stomach, the weight on your shoulders feeling, the heaviness in your chest where it seems hard to breath - INFIDELITY SUCKS!!!! Sorry.<P>Professorg - How do you do it? Eight affairs??? You are a rock of patience. I suppose one year isn't too long then. I don't know - it sure is tough sometimes. Thanks for the encouragement.<P>Maya - when are you going to tell me how you really feel! I've considered what you have said. No she doesn't hate me. A year ago she did - big time. I was able to over come that. But, we have hit a plateau. I think she has made peace with her self - I'm just surprised she is willing to live like this. She was telling me about a time she was out with her friends and they were all ragging on their husbands or boy friends. I asked her what she said about me - she said "what can I say - you're practically perfect. I told them that you sometimes cook my steak a little more than I like it." Yeah, maybe I am a meal ticket or just a cook. One more quote by her "I know I'm self absorbed right now, I just don't know how to break out of it." Don't know what to do with that one.<P>Roll Me Away - When I read your post I thought - of course I want more; who doesn't? I have to change something. I think I have been able to restore friendship but I am falling short in regards to intimacy. Yeah, I'm a nice guy - but we all know where nice guys finish. Thanks for the compliment. Believe it or not, I do like myself now more than last year. I am finding my strengths and I know where I am weak. I continue to cherish her because I don't want to live with regrets anymore. <P>Wexwill - hey buddy. Thanks for posting, I hadn't seen you post in a while and was wondering how you were doing. I have hesitated in taking the big anti-deps. Unfortunately I turned to alcohol to take the edge off. I never drank prior to this mess. I don't get blasted - just a beer or a glass a wine at night. It helps. My W won't go to any counseling - we're doing fine in her eyes. I certainly am in the same boat as you in regards to how I feel towards my wife. I got a chuckle out of your "I'd stay in her 24/7 if possible". I just got this image of actually trying to live like that - it would be fun to see how long one could go. Anyway, I am really sorry to hear things aren't going well for you either. And to top it off, your W has yet to confess - how frustrating for you. This can't be the plan for marriage Wex. <P>K - I am very happy that you posted. Your posts, as usual, ooze wisdom. I guess I set my self up with that "tons of money" quote. It's all relative you know - maybe it's a mere "load" of money to you or perhaps a small pile. Anyway, you're right of course. I have hesitated to go to counseling because I didn't want to go alone. I thought my wife and I should go as a couple since this is a couple's issue. As far as the anti-deps go, I suppose I have shied away form the heavy stuff because I thought I could handle this and anti-dps would prove to me that I couldn't. You are right though - I need to get something more than St John's Wort. How old were your kids when you went to Plan B and what was their reaction to you leaving? I am more afraid on the affect on them than my wife. I can just picture the whole scenario and it doesn't look good. Daddy would definitely be the bad guy. Thanks Dr. K, I here by promise to get help and stiff drugs.<P>Hurt Bad - Thank you for the kind words. I read your post about 20 times because it was so nice. Thank you for the encouragement.<P>Paul Moyers - I covet your prayers - thank you. And don't worry about what you say in any of my posts, everyone is one edge here.<P>Kat - Gosh, I have seen you post in a while either - maybe I was under the desk too long. Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying hard to live each day as it comes without getting bent out of shape with the small stuff. It just these nagging and prolonged periods of being down and that make me question everything. Thank you for the support.<P>SHA

SHA:<P>My kids were 7 and 3 when I left. They were both very upset. My son (the 7 year old) painted me a picture that said "Daddy don't leave". I have it here at work tucked away, to remind me to suck it up should I ever be feeling sorry for myself.<P>I'll tell you that after I left, I spent more quality time with my kids than I had been able to prior. Hey---no household responsibilities to eat up Dad's time. We spent weekends together, and at least 1 weeknight/week. And they looked forward to that time, and in general, there were no problems.<P>On the other hand, my son was very upset with my wife about me leaving. And he took it out on her in not-so-subtle ways. Although I've never discussed the affair with him, I think he had a sense for what was going on (he knows that I don't like the OM). He had trouble dealing with the separation, and my wife was the focal point of the anger. A Plan B side-effect---but it does help put reality back into the situation.<P>I'm glad you're listening. Get the drugs---it's not an admission that you can't handle it. I went on them sooner rather than later---my doctor told me that I was handling things well, but if I was going to be in this for the long haul, that I should probably get started on meds. And please start talking to Steve Harley---he'll be able to help you plan a course of action for this next phase. I trusted him with my marriage, and I was very glad that I did.

Maya, that reminds me of a country song (doesn't everything?).<P>There ain't no bars in heaven<BR>That's why we drink down here<P>...or something like that

SHA, <BR>So sorry to hear about your pain. I think maybe some sort of modified Plan B would be good for you. STart reducing the contact and love deposits to see if she notices.<P> I don't think you should ask her to go because she probably would go straight to om. Also someone said that she is content because both you and om are filling her needs, and I would have to agree about that.<P>Also maybe it is just a plateau, it all can't be a straight shot to the top. Hang in there! <P>You need to get her to discuss things, but I don't know how to tell you to get her to do it.<P>As for the anti-deps, don't be too proud. I started on them as I am losing my patience and am short with the kids. So with the holiday pressure coming , I decided to give my dr a call. <P>She gave me 6 weeks worth of free samples of celexa. It supposedly has very low percentages of side effects. I don't know if this will help me control my anger and bitterness towards my stbx or not. I juts don't want to take it out on the kids.<P>As for the praying, I found that everytime I tried to handle things on my own, it was very painful(like Sun) but when I prayed and asked the Lords help, thing went smoothly(?) like Sat when we told the kids were are divorcing.<P><BR>Hang In there SHA, you have been an imspiration to a lot of us.<P>GOD Bless

SHA, I don't post much, but have been so uplifted from your advice. You are truly an inspiration to many here.<P>And at the risk of being put down, I feel as if Maya's responses are completely inappropriate. Some need to realize what they have. And some also need to realize how to be kinder to those who are hurting so intensely. Maya seems to put everyone down here, and I'm amazed there is no response.

Huh, Isaac?<P>I'd say Maya was maybe a little cynical in her assessment of SHA's W. But putting everyone here down? Maybe no one's commented on it 'cause she hasn't.<P>The first 'pissy' comment about anyone HERE came from Paul--directed AT Maya. <BR>