Hello my good friends, <P>I don't mean to be a downer today, but I have been fighting this wave of depression for the past week and it just seems to be getting worse. It is taking everything I have in me today to keep from crawling under my desk, curling up in the fetal position and bawling my eyes out. I'm at 51 weeks and counting in this mess...trial...life event...whatever it's called. Sometimes I think my wife and I will make it and sometimes I don't. <P>At the present time, I don't feel like we are making it. We are drifting a part again and I don't know what to do to bridge the chasm anymore. I haven't changed my behaviors. I give her lots of touch. I try and talk to her and keep communication lines open. We still go out together, but at best I'm just a friend to her not even a best friend.<P>If physical intimacy is the gage, then we are in trouble again. Several months ago, we decided together on a frequency. Well, what do you know, there is always something that gets in the way. Too tired, stomach ache, head ache, out of town, etc. I have gotten the message that she doesn't want to be intimate with me and so I am not interested in getting shot down anymore. I was always initiating it anyway. In reality, all I want right now is to just hold her. Just snuggle for a while. Maybe just feel a little wanted every now and then. <P>You know the other night we went to see "The Story of Us". No impact on her at all. The only comment was "that movie has a lot of truth to it". As for me, I was weeping at the end when Michele Pfiffer was telling her husband how she felt. Oh well.<P>I wonder to myself whether or not that this is it. Maybe we can't get any closer. We never had a deep level of intimacy in our marriage. She has this wall around her heart that I can't crawl over or knock down. Maybe I just need to find happiness in the face of despair. She just doesn't have anything left for me. I feel as though she emotionally divorced herself from me and is not interested in getting it back. She won't go to counseling. She won't read any of the books I have. I seem to be the only one interested in keeping this marriage together and the family together for that matter. I handle everything in our home. She does her own laundry and that's about it. <P>We talk about our future together which seems odd to me. She wants to move into a nicer house. She talks about going on a trip with just me. We have a nice time when we are alone, but she doesn't feel anything physically for me. She has no desire to touch me. Any hugs I get are the ones I ask for. The good bye kisses are becoming infrequent. I just her to give something back - just a little. <P>As for the OM, he's still in the picture much less than before. They still email one another about once a week and maybe see each other for lunch once a month. She gets very upset when I challenge her on this. After all "Nothing is going on; we just talk". I think that is a quote out of the movie we just saw. <P>To sum it up; I would say she's content with our marriage the way it is. I, obviously, am not. I should shy away from offering anyone advice for a while, I just don't have any uplifting words to offer.<P>SHA

Oh, SHA, I am so sorry you are feeling this way. You've been such an inspiration and strength for me and so many others throughout these months.<P>You have worked so very hard, with so little reward. It's time to give yourself some sort of break, I think. I'm not sure what, but those down times come and I think sometimes we have to listen to them.<P>Hold on. We're all here for you. No advice, but I'm reading.<P>Lori

Hello my friend -<P>Just signing off to go to work and saw this....can't write much now - I'll come back after....<P>But I wanted to pull you out from under your desk, wipe off the dust bunnies and give you a BIG HUG!!!!<P>I'm sorry that things aren't at the point you want yet....have faith SHA, they'll get there!!!!<P>Have you talked with Dr. H at all lately? Perhaps he could give some insight that would help move things along? <P>If I come out there (per lawyer advice if you remember) - She won't like it!!!<BR>This Warrior Gal doesn't take to well to her friends being sad.......<P>I'll think on things and see if I could come up with something to help...just close your eyes and picture all the HUGS we're sending you when you want to go back under the desk.....<P><BR>We Love Ya and somewhere under the muck your Wife's brain is mired in - she does to.....that's why the "future" talk!!<P>HUGS, STRENGTH AND PRAYERS,<P>Sheba<P>

{{{{{{{{{{Sir Hurst Alot}}}}}}}}}}<P>It's a hard, hard journey we've decided to accept..<P>Just looking back in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html" TARGET=_blank>"Surviving An Affair"(SAA)</A> a quote sticks out... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>While there is no hope for reconciliation when the affair is underway, as soon as the affair is ended, reconciliation is definitely possible. (page 74 of SAA)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your W has obviously has not given up the affair... Your time in <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> may be coming to an end... I know this is a hard one, but maybe you need to think through this long and hard... but maybe you've reach your limit... time for <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>.<P>In your situation with your W being home... this is escpecially difficult (an envious position for those who don't have their spouses home)... but just try and think about it. Don't let your <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3200_love.html" TARGET=_blank>Love Bank</A> for her drain to zero!<P>Prayers for you... <P>A germain quote from a reply to a post that I read earlier... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Life is not for regret, nor for envy, nor for dreaming. It's for making the most of ourselves and the time we have with our loved ones. (credit to "nonplused")<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jim<BR>---------------------------------<BR>Where two or more are gathered...

SHA,<BR> The reason you're not seeing many results from your wife is because of her continuing contact with OM--even if it's only a little. Every contact sets her back to zero. As long as she's talking to him or seeing him (even if it's only once a month), she will not be able to get her love for you back.<BR> As to what you should do? I can't tell you that, but you'll know when you should do Plan B.

SHA, I'm sorry to say that I sound just like your wife. I don't, however, have contact with the OM ... that would be a killer for sure. I am just existing in the marriage.<P>I am going to go to a counselor (next Mon).<P>I don't initiate anything, just give what is asked of me. I don't know how H stands it. I wonder if he's prepared to live the rest of our lives like this ... or if he'll eventually let me go.<P>I know you're in pain, but speaking from your wife's standpoint, it's not something she plans on changing. Maybe she's just trying to wear you down.

Hello, SHA<P>I don't know much about your side of the coin (I'm the betrayer), but I do know depression.<P>Even on max anti-deps (currently Zoloft), I have days where I feel like the world is collapsing.<P>Your situation is so much worse than mine. From looking at your previous posts, you have shown incredible strength over these 51 weeks. People who can do what you have done really set an example for the rest of us...<P>I try to put myself in your wife's place. I think the problem is the presence of the OM. I got ONE IM from the OW the other day and that set me back significantly.<P>I'm not sure she believes deep down that the relationship with the OM is really done and over as long as she has periodic contact.<P>I'm not convinced yet that mine is...but I start my day telling myself that.<P>I'm so sorry for your pain...

SHA<BR>{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<BR>Remember last summer when we had to create a plan WS?<BR>I think it involved taking care of oneself.<BR>I think you are to the point where you have got to think about doing something for yourself.<BR>I am not absolutely positive that H has no more contact with the bimbo but I don't care anymore. I learned to like me.<BR>(Careful I'm in the Dragon Lady mode)<BR>you know that I understand your depression completely. It is very hard to drag oneself out of it. Sometimes you need to wallow for a bit. But then you HAVE to think of what you can do for you.<BR>Physical exercise is a real depression buster. Just five minutes.<BR>So what can you do for YOU?<BR>Last night I went to a hockey parent's meeting. After it was done I picked up an old friend and we went for a drink. I didn't tell H where I was going after the meeting. I turned off my cell phone. A little naughty but I had to teach myself that I am important and I deserve a little fun.<BR>H called a couple of times but he is comfortable now. So am I. He knew he was just getting a little lesson. He doesn't always remember to let me know where he is going either. It's okay now though. I was home by 10:30 and we just watched TV together. I think he repects me more now because he's had that little taste of me not always being there every minute. He couldn't find one of his tools while I was gone and he mentioned that I would have found it for him. He missed me.<BR>Okay I'm rambling.<BR>Point is - Think about yourself the individual and what you can do for Sir HA.

SHA,<P>Oh my friend, how i feel for you. <P>As you know our situations are very much alike and we even came here at about the same time oh those many months ago. What i'm going to say is advice only, and some may accuse me of taking the hard line, but remember i say this because i care about YOU.<P>Preface: My W is moving out the 1st of Dec as we are separating. Time will tell if her love for me returns AND if my love for her returns to the level that I feel is necessary to continue the marriage.<P>Your W's actions w/OM: They're unacceptable. She must end all contact or you go to Plan B and she moves out. Not you, her. Be nice, but tell her in no uncertain terms that her actions are outside the boundries of acceptable behavior in marriage. <P>Your depression: Take it from someone who was dying inside each day. Get to your doctor and get some help. Paxil has saved my sanity and allowed me to regain control of myself. It's really nice to be able to think rationally again. I've experienced no side effects, but my outlook on life has done a 180. I'm able to accept my inability to control my W's actions and to realize that my life has value outside of her. Best of all...my children have their dad back in body AND in spirit. <P>Again, some my feel my recommendations are a bit drastic or harsh, but i know first hand the pain you're in and i know that if you don't stop beating your head against that brick wall, you're going to hurt YOURSELF. <P>I'm truly sorry i can't be one of those that says keep trying the Plan A, but you do not deserve to live the way you are right now. In a nutshell.....IT'S TIME TO THINK OF SHA FIRST !!!<P>My thoughts and prayers are with you.

SHA: Hey bud, chin up!<P>I am receiving similar treatment right now. I really don't know what to do. Maybe I should give up take my ball and go home. I look at the situation, mine, yours, everyone's and wonder 'What has changed?' What is different now than before? Why did she / he come home in the first place? Have I quit communicating? Am I not being affectionate? I think I'm still doing things right. This is so frustrating!!!<P>Wait! I am doing things different! In my happiness and knowledge of the work I must do to keep this alive, I have forgotten the work it took to get me here. The work on my knees, I have become complacent. Happy to be here, where I am. Not striving for a closer walk. I have not prayed like I did before she came back. Before I would pray at odd times during the day and every night regardless. Now I find myself where I should be perhaps once every other day. And again I see things slipping.<P>SHA, perhaps you are as I and have become complacent in our standing with God. I don't mean doing anything wrong, but our lives with God must be constantly seeking. Constantly wanting more of him. In doing this he rewards us with the gifts around us. Peace of mind, well being, family, friends, happiness in general. He lets us feel the sadness, depression, loss, enemies, and all hurtful things to keep us diligent in our journey.<P>Keep the faith my brother. Find peace in knowing that God has never tried a person such as you and that person stay true and Him not reward them greatly.<P>Do not worry about your W, right now it appears that God is working on you. He will get to her in His good time. Till then I will pray for your strength and peace of mind. That God will give your heart the rest it deserves. God bless you SHA.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

SHA --<P>can't say much here. Got to go to a meeting. I'll post later, but know this:<P>We're here for each other. I'm going through a similar "valley", and so are many of us. Try to keep your head above the muck, take a deep breath, go find a distraction -- whatever. But, don't give up yet!<P>Chin up!<P>--keystone

'cuse me .... hey, nlitned .... how do you get a woman to leave her own house? Call the cops?<P>What if she says that nothing's going on with the OM, that he's a friend and that SHA has no right to throw her out of the house for having a friend?<P>Hello?<P>She's not gonna go anywhere cazu she's comfortable.

Hey SHA,<P>Been there, am there, done that, living that! I totally understand, and the only thing I can say is that last night was the Harvest Moon, so maybe we're all a bit whack-a-doodled!! <P>I am so sorry for your pain! Fetal position is a position I know well... just can't do it under the desk... gotta hold on... boy, do I understand that one!<P>Just wanted you to know I care!!<P>------------------<BR>Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss it you are among the stars!!

SHA,<P>SIGH!!!! There is definitely a crazy lunar influence right now that is taking it's toll on even the most stalwart of souls!<P>I believe, as the others have already pointed out that it is still the OM influence. This withdrawal and these set-backs DO wear a soul WEARY now, don't they!?!<P>You are right where I was several weeks back. My H had come home, but foolish him thinking we could make it while he refused to give up on his OW! It just AIN'T going to happen. But, your W has to come to terms with that. She can't be pining away for the OM and working on your marriage at the same time. The effects of one has to cancel the effects of the other - hence STALEMATE!<P>You are tired and weary, friend. I know I am doing PlanB for me. Also, I think it is the only hope (last resort) for my H ever realizing what I meant to him and wanting to come back and do this "right". If he doesn't, he doesn't and I can't make him.<P>You deserve ALOT MORE than you have been giving. Spend a little time these next few days and/or weeks and reflect on what it would mean to you if your W was no longer a part of your life. I think you, like the rest of us, are so intent on saving your marriage, you are letting it consume you. You need some space and air to breathe.<P>Give yourself some time to think about your life and what you want in the long run. I am trying to do this, too. I have found an answer - I want a loving monogamous relationship with someone who loves me on the same level that I love him. Now, I REALLY want that "someone" to be my H. I love him dearly. But, if he chooses a life without me, do I believe there is no one else in this world?? No, there will be another in time for me if my H doesn't want me. Do you believe there will be a life and a love for SHA if things don't work out with the wife you dearly love??<P>I am not advocating you to give up - only you know what you can do and can not do. But, you have to also believe that if the things out of your control go a way you don't want them to, SHA will survive, will find love and will be happy again.<P>Is it time for PlanB???<P>Roll Me Away

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Time will tell if her love for me returns AND if my love for her returns to the level that I feel is necessary to continue the marriage.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why do so many people think, "love just happens." Did any of you betrayers (honestly now) fall madly in love with the OP BEFORE you started doing things together? Did any of us fall in love with our spouses BEFORE we started dating or doing things together? We may have been attracted to them, but that does not equal love.<P>You MUST do things too nurture the love & give it something to grow on.<P>Maya, <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't initiate anything, just give what is asked of me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Guess what? Love ain't gonna jump up & bite you in the a$$!<P>Can't have children by "thinking" about having them. Gotta take action to make it happen. Why should love be any different?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Well, Chris, you gotta WANT to have kids, huh?<BR>

Maya,<P>Yep, he's just a friend, and i'm the tooth fairy. <P>Seriously, i did not mean to imply you do something physical or even intimidating for that matter. It's something that's discussed between two adults each seeking a resolution to the problem. If one party left the marriage via an affair and continues contact w/the OP while making no effort at reconciliation, then separation becomes an option after a period of time. That's all i meant to say. <BR>

Oh .... sorry about that. So I'm a bit on edge today. (nothing new there, huh?)<P>I just don't understand how one spouse can kick out another spouse if they don't wanna go, ya know?<P>I realize that one will leave if they want a separation, but in my case, my H won't divorce me, and if I can tolerate the situation at home---just exist---but he decides that I'm not trying and wants me to leave .... there's no way he can get me to, correct? <P>Like it even matters anyway. <P>SHA, sorry to step all over your post.<p>[This message has been edited by Maya (edited November 23, 1999).]

SHA,<BR>Hang in there my friend. I know it hurts a great deal particularly when they start to draw away after getting close again. My W back in March had gotten really close. We went to a Family Life marriage conference and she was being bubbly and all those wonderful things. I knew she still wasn't giving me all of herself but I was elated to get what I had gotten. Then about 2 weeks later she became more distant. As I write this I think I know what triggered it: my family was coing to town and we have gone to see my family more than her family. I did not do this intentionally because it was what my father did to my mother; so it is a sensitive issue with me. I can only guess that it caused her to be down. Her family can do no wrong though she chose to run away from her family because they didn't treat her with the love she feels she deserves. I am almost positive that is why I have never been able to get inside her inner shell. I have been close but have never gotten in in 14 years.<P>Hang in there. I know you can make it. I have been going for 6 years now and through 8 affairs. She still is in number 8 even though she wants to call it a friendship.<P>I am praying for you.<P>------------------<BR>God Bless,<BR>Rob<P><BR>

SHA<BR>Talk to us!!!<BR>Are you there?<BR>We really care you know.<BR>NB was right - it seems one can always tell the full moon is here. It seems to intensify feelings.