heartpain,<P>sorry to hear you are in the same boat. I sometimes feel I am addicted to the marriage. I am in the same house, same bed, have not changed anything in the house (just starting taking down the "couple pictures", we still had left up), and no furniture has moved much (xcept for the half she took). But then I think about her...I love her with all my soul, obviously more than she loved me. And it's her I am addicted to. I have been for like 8 years. I was crazy about her when we met in '90, and even when we stayed just friends because that was all she wanted, I was still hung up on her. Maybe that's why I wanted to so hard to believe she felt almost the same way, and yeah she even wanted to marry me. I'm starting to face facts that maybe she just didn't. <P>Maybe it would be easier if I changed my whole life too. Like find a new place and a new job. I just got back from picking up child from wifes apartment. I asked if I could look around, get a tour. I needed to remind myself how permanent she seems to be making this break. I saw all our stuff that she took, it really looked permanent to me. Had that live in feeling and yes I even saw her damn bedroom. More for my images library. I actually wanted to hurt myself into realizing how permanent it is becoming. I think we all have to allow ourselves to really grieve, let her go, and get on with it. Alot of us betrayers here have hung to hope so much, that it won't allow us to grieve totally. Medic and I, we will greive, but we are now better men for the experience.

izzy,<P>Sorry, just back on-line from yesterday afternoon, so just getting to your question about my story.<P>Going out out on a limb and telling all - i have only had 2 lovers - H#1 and H#2. When I had the affair, it was an EA, NEVER physical. It ended when the OM wanted to get sexual and that was the "moment of truth" for me - realized I was in-love with my H and NOT the OM.<P>What I was trying to say to you was that I LEARNED how to be lusty with H#2 - more orgasmic. Hardly ever had them with H#1, but didn't realize that ubtil I got with H#2 and had them EVERYTIME! (Sorry to be blunt).<P>As others wrote to you on here - it is more about TECHNIQUE and APPROACH than anything else. Penis size doesn't count - H#1 was bigger. Foreplay and "setting the mood" with attention and niceties beforehand reallt get a woman in the mood. You can learn this - that is easy - not hard! And, remember that sex is only ONE dimension of a healthy, satisfying relationship. If my H had an illness and we could never have sex again, I would still want him back, as he meets (or at least, used to meet when he was here!) many of my most important needs. Christopher Reeves' wife obviously wanted to stay with her H and no sex.<P>You think your W might not want to come back even if she and the OM eventually break up. Well, I don't know the answer to that question. But, if sex alone is a prime motivator for people to have a relationship, more people would be pairing off with REALLY experienced people like male and female prostitutes! No, there are people like me who were (and others still are) having some of the BEST sex ever with their S and then the S left anyway.<P>The book I was mentioning is called "The Solo Partner" by Phil Deluca - that is where I wasd earlier - went back to the bookstore to buy it.<P>Nonplussed - what a list! My H told me some of those things. His favorite line is "I CAN'T give her up - she is TOO important to me!" <Blech> I also think it is true in many cases that the last to seek counceling is the one who needs it the most!<P>Medic,<P>You HAVE gotten alot stronger. One gentle caution, my friend - you are lonely and starved for affection right now. You are, like many of us, very vulnerable right now. Please do be careful with the XGF. You could end up compomising yourself, although that is not your intention. I am not criticizing you for having fun or even for going out with a girl friend, but this is relighting an old fire and it could turn into a bonfire before you realize it - the woodpile is VERY DRY right now - no time to play with matches <P>heartpain,<P>I started a post about that topic several weeks ago - "Are We addicted to our Spouses?' I think was the name. Like you, I sometimes wonder the same thing, because I am going through withdrawal without him, etc.<P>Izzy, I may be off in a little bit but will try to check in later tonight - going to a movie and Mexican dinner with a girlfriend. This is a GREAT post!<P>Roll Me Away<P> <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Izzy<BR>Sorry it took me so long to reply.<P>I never really had a timetable. I was in Plan A when I first learned about affair in May and thur June. When she moved out in July, I tried Plan B, but it is very difficult with children. I did not do the letter and w basically came and went as she pleased. I just went thru the Plan B till the affair crashed in Oct. and picked up with Plan A again. <P>When that failed I decide to go to Plan D(divorce).<P><BR>Yea, om is married with 3 grown children.<P>Your sex life sounds very close to mine. This year we were down to sex once every 6 weeks. With her working evenings, I was in bed when she got home, she worked everyother weekend and was not in the mood when she got home. I am weak too in the affection and communication dept whcih she said she needed to get her in the mood. I guess I always confused affection with sex and vice versa.<P><BR>Om came along at work and they just sat and talked about their problems and soon enough it was on. Add the excitement of the affair, no responsibilities of kids and it must be very hard to look back.<p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited November 27, 1999).]

RWD,<P>Thanks for your honesty. Unfortunately, if our situations are the same, I am not looking forward to the same stuff you had to deal with (betrayer going back to OM). Maybe, thats why I just want to mentally begin to move on. I failed as a husband with the main needs that led to sexual fulfillment. I truly believe that if we had resolved that issue, she would not have been so turned on elsewhere.<P>RMA,<P>BTW, why do you think your husband started his affair and why he can't drop it.<P>Heartpain, <P>If you are still here, do what you can not to let wife move. She just wants out to have affair easier. I think odds are really bad once they are out on their own.

Izzy -- <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She just wants out to have affair easier<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A week or more ago, I would have disagreed with you and defended her decision just a little bit. But, if you look at my post: <B>izzy and Medic -- It's never over is it?</B> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010081.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum1/HTML/010081.html</A> <BR>You will see that my eyes were finally opened. I have continued to take care of her and even suggested that I may try to postpone my business trip starting tomorrow for a day to make sure she's OK. I think she knows something's wrong with me because she has asked at least twice today. I just smile and say "nothing" or make up some other excuse. I really want to be there to help her, but I can't stop thinking about yesterday.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>do what you can not to let wife move <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I can't <B>not</B> let her move, I can only make it desirable to stay. But I believe she has definitely made up her mind, it's just a matter of time.<P>I agree with your assessment of what happens when they are out on their own. That's why they want it in the first place.<P>Just be careful with your W's excuse. Look for constructive avenues. She could just be justifying her affair by making you the scapegoat. W has a whole different take on our marriage now than she had a year ago. It's truly amazing how I went back in time during the summer and changed our whole history by doing the things I was accused of. Especially since they didn't happen that way in my world. Your W may be doing the same to you, so don't take it too personally. <P>Make sure the shoe fits <B>before</B> you buy it, my friend.<P>

izzy,<P>Why do I think my H is in an affair and can't drop it? Combination of things:<P>1) retaliation for my EA from 2 yrs. ago<BR>2) MLC - H is 52<BR>3) Other crises - see my profile for the crises that have happened to me and H the last 2 yrs - evreything is not listed there though =. H's best friend died 7/2 this year, W of another best friend died week his B died, numerous other people close to us died since affair started - 4 others besides these, including some family and some friends!<BR>4) H and I both have difficulty dealing with loss issues. H was no help for me when my Dad had stroke and I have not been that good for helping him thru this either - seem to only have learned alot either the hard way or too late <sigh>. Least I am motiated and trying awfully hard!<BR>5) H feels like so many wayward S's here - he has "lost face" and "too much water under the bridge" "we can never get our love back", etc. ad nauseum. Basically excuses to not have to FACE the problems. I told him this is the easier way out for him to get a D and he has OW already.<BR>6) H refuses to go to counseling and it would be a condition of reconciliation - individual and couples counseling. Same for me - individual and couples counseling, so I would not ask him to do something that I wouldn't also be doing.<BR>7)My H has never been dumped EVER by anyone - I think he was appalled that I could have rejected him by having the EA and I feel he is afraid of trusting me again and also that he is afraid of getting too close to ANY woman again for real intimacy. BTW - OW lives in another state - how CONVENIENT!!!!!<P>As I have posted elsewhere - I think my H and other wayward S's would rather blame us for their own internal issues. If they blame us, then they can justify NOT having to look internal to make changes and become responsible for their own happiness. They will change everything, including US as the spouse, before looking to themselves as the source of unhappiness.<P>Wow - alot of reasons, I guess.<P>Roll Me Away<P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>