Wow, what a way to introduce yourself to a group. Hi! I'm a stranger, you've probably never met, and I want to dump a serious problem on you for a while.

Well, not really, I want to solve the problem, seek the prayers of the faithful, and just have someplace I can go to share my feelings. Seems if I continue to share my feelings in the present fasihon with my wife, she will just leave sooner.

Ok, here is the deal, my wife of over 7 years now wants to leave me. She essentially tells me that she doesn't see how she can be happy with me. She is not talking divorce, but instead she simply wants to move out for a while. We have two children, the oldest is a 13 year old girl who is a step daughter. We also have a soon to be five year old girl.

Wow, didn't see that one coming. I knew she was unhapppy, but certainly not to that extent. She often told me she was tired, so I simply accepted that as fact.

The good news is she told me this last Saturday night and she has not left yet. Ironically after I commented on how I rarely saw her wear red and she looked good. One of her complaints was I didn't compliment her enough. So when I do, a few minutes later she says she wants to move out.

Well she hasn't yet, and I've tried to be less stressed, more understanding. But she says she just wants her space, and of course I want to talk this out.

So if I keep talking to her, I'll probably drive her out the door.

I read many of the articles here, and say, yep we did that, or are not doing the other thing that is recommended.

I can agree with the good doctor on much of what he says.

I think if I boil it down, our problem lies in this quote from the Dr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Romance for most men is sex and recreation; for most women it's affection and conversation. When all four come together, men and women alike call it romance and they deposit the most love units possible. That makes these categories somewhat inseparable whenever you spend time together. My advice is to try to combine them all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Dr has me nailed to the T. I told my wife before we married that sex 4x a day would be just about right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

For what it is worth, neither of us were virgins, but we never had intercourse with each other prior to marriage.

I would say that the Dr is right about my wife as well.

However, it is obvious to me that I've done/am doing something that causes her to no longer want to converse with me.

My biggest fear is that she has already checked out, emotionally of the marriage

I've been blaming her and trying to tell her that I'm not the one that doesn't want to talk, and that is probably right.

However, what I'd never considered is WHY she doesn't want to talk.

I believe she feels that I'm blaming her for things when we have these "talks" so she simply doesn't want to talk anymore.

So my prayer request is that you good people pray that Mrs javaContour can open up her heart one more time, so that I can show her that I don't want to break her heart, but want to help her heal it.

I fix things for a living, and I feel responsible for her broken heart. I want to help her put the pieces back together, for her sake, for the kids, and of course for us.

I cannot change her. I can ask God to soften her heart, which is justifiably hardened at this time. But this brings me to the next part of my prayer request, that I truly can become that thoughtful and compassionate husband that she deserves.

Some of it is selfish, I don't want to be a failure at marriage. My mother never married my father and divorced my sister's father at a young age. But the biggest part of it is I feel responsible for creating an envirionment where she doesn't feel safe and secure emotionally.

My worst fear is that it is too late, she has already checked out.

We both are hurt. She is mad at me because I didn't see it coming, I didn't understand her. I'm am mad/frustrated with her because she didn't send me messages in a form I understand.

She did send me messages, I was just too focused on me to even try to understand.

Since I cannot go back and do it over, I want the chance to do it right from here on.

I have faith that if she would only believe me when I say that I don't want to hurt her, I have faith that if she can learn to trust her feelings with me once again, that I can learn to recognize and support her emotionally once again.

All I need is some devine intervention to tear down the wall she is building as well as peace in my heart so I don't become so frustrated with this sudden (to me) change in my life that I force her to push me further away.

This is my prayer...

javaContour

<small>[ September 13, 2003, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: javaContour ]</small>

Dear Java,

I'm glad you're here seeking help and I promise that I will pray for both you and your wife.

I'm not great with advice because I have made my own mistakes...as a matter of fact I sound much like your wife.

But here is what I will say--fight for your marriage...fight hard. Even though she may seem distant and it may be hard to "get back" -don't give up. This is the person God intended for you to be with---so live according to His plan.

I must say that I am the WS although my H doesn't know about it--YET. It was an EA that I have stopped as of this week. I don't even think I realized what I was missing in my marriage that led me to the EA--but I do now. It was a need for attention and affection. I have communicated my needs to my husband and we are working through the book His Needs/Her Needs together. He is trying...and right now it seems awkward having this attention from him and at times may seem contrived. But what means the most to me is that it is important enough to him to at least do it and attempt to meet my needs. And believe me, I can now see where I am not meeting his needs as well, even though he has never complained...I don't even think he realizes it. I think it is easy to get comfortable in a marriage--but that is a very dangerous thing to do.

Continue to seek the help of the Lord--I know He is what is getting us through this time right now. There was a time when I thought about
"getting out" to escape and see what would happen. But I knew that wasn't the right thing to do. And it did take me time to see that.

Keep fighting for the marriage---you obviously love her very much and want that. God will give you strength to do just that.

Be patient--it will take time and there will be ups and downs...

Blessings to you.

You are going to have to help with some of the jargon. I think I know what abbreviations such as H and WS mean, but aren't certain.

However, I don't think she is having an affair if that is what you are getting at. I have no reason to believe otherwise, and she would probably tell me if she were.

She comes home every night or goes to the Y with the kids (she has never been comfortable working out with me.) So her time is accounted for.

Plus I just came out and asked her, and I really have no reason to doubt her.
(While I can't always read her emotions, I'm pretty sure I could tell if she were lying.)

So keep those prayers and suggestions coming.

javaContour

Hi again Java!

I did not mean to imply at all that she was having an Affair. I was just sharing my situation. My point was that I did not even realize that I had a need that wasn't being met by my H until I got wrapped up in the attention from OM (other man). I wish I would have recognized this need earlier and I could have focused my time and energy on my marriage as opposed to wasting it on OM. I was one of those people that thought my marriage was just fine and never....ever would see myself involved in an EA (emotional affair) with another man. You are concerned that your wife has "checked out" and that although you want to do what's right and make things better, you aren't sure she'll respond to that. My advice is just do it anyhow---give here the attention she needs, the admiration she needs----show her in every way possible how much you love her and want your marriage to work out. Don't become discouraged by her lack of response or indifferent response----you must give 110% to save it.

Again, I'm sorry if you felt I was implying that she was having an affair--that was not my intent at all.It simply was to show you how not recognizing what you or your spouse's needs are can lead to disaster...and that doing all you can to make it right and better is what you need to do--no matter how hard it may be.

Remember, God isn't as concerned about our happiness as he is our character. Do the right thing--no matter how hard it may be.

Blessings,

javaContour,

I will pray for you and your wife. Be understanding of her and listen with your heart. My H (husband) and I are going through a very difficult time right now as well. I pray CONSTANTLY and at times it does settle my heart.

This site has been a tremendous source of strength, knowledge and inspiration for me. I hope you get as much out of it as I do. Dr. Harley definitely knows what he's talking about.
God's love to you!
Abbreviations:
A (Affair)
H (Husband)
W (Wife)
WS (Wayward Spouse)
POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement)

javaContour,

I understand your W's feelings, at least as much as one can, having been "dumped" in much the same way she is telling you she wants out. My H "checked out" emotionally as well, many months before he finally moved out.....I took it as a sign that things were "OK" now. Nothing could have been further from the truth.

I'm a little surprised that no one has suggested that you Plan A your W. Plan A is your way of showing her that you realize what you were doing wrong in your M, why she is unhappy, and that you are making permanent changes toward becoming the type of H she wants and needs you to be......the man she originally fell in love with.

I think forcing her to talk is a big mistake. If she IS emotionally "gone," then forcing her to talk to you, face the relationship, tryi to fix it will only send her further away (but you already know that!).

As you indicated you have read on the website, I would recommend something you can do. Go to the EN Questionnaire, and take the test. Take it as HER! That's what I did, and I was amazed at finding out what my H's main EN's were, and how badly I wasn't meeting many of them! It was an eye-opener, sad but true.

We are all here to help. Please continue to post, and we will do what we can to help, and of course, prayer is coming your way.

God Bless,

These are all very good ideas, I don't know exactly how the Plan A really applies as she's not having any sort of affair, ( I do believe I know her well enough to know if that is true or not, unless it is some sort of weird thing that involves our kids being there...) I suppose the negotiation part doesn't exactly apply (can you tell I'm a "stiff necked engineer by education and vocation?)

I have simply asked her to not totally check out, and to give me permission to not only tell her that I've changed, but to show her. I think that is what she wants anyway, for me to stop talking about it and just do it.

I think she does understand this, but she has a lot of pain.

I know that if I continue to talk to her like I have been that I will make her more mad, etc.

But she is still home, we still sleep in the same bed together, and I keep forgetting to look, but I do think she is still wearing her wedding ring.

So I'm going to start by trying to just do one special thing for her and our girls every day, and then perhaps she will see that there is action behind those words.

I've returned to church as I've totally dropped the ball in that regard. I went to church with one of her friends she met at a former employer of hers who is a wonderful Christian woman. She and her husband are like a mother and father to both of us.

I'm somewhat concerned, because she will think I told her and her husband what is going on, but I simply went to worship, and when Bev asked where my wife and kids were, that I felt it were best if she talked to Lori about that and said that there were many things I needed to do better, and that I need to return to God, and relearn what true, unconditional love is.

Bev told me that a couple of weeks ago, she was moved to call Mrs. javaContour, but didn't. I said it may be a good time to call her, but not push since she may not even open up to her.

I also told my wife and kids that Bev and Greg asked about her and Jennifer, their adult daughter asked about our oldest who attended the youth worship service. So I'm not keeping it a secret where I went, but if asked, I didn't volunteer what is going on.

I feel like a fool, since for so much of my life, I've depended upon God for so much, and for the last 4-5 years, I've really put God on the back burner.

I can't change her, but I can simply continue to pray for two things:

1. I can make good on my renewed committments to God and my family.

2. That my wife will be open enough to wait a while longer, so she sees that the message is heard and the change is real.

javaContour

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaContour:
<strong>Wow, what a way to introduce yourself to a group. Hi! I'm a stranger, you've probably never met, and I want to dump a serious problem on you for a while.

Well, not really, I want to solve the problem, seek the prayers of the faithful, and just have someplace I can go to share my feelings. Seems if I continue to share my feelings in the present fasihon with my wife, she will just leave sooner.

Ok, here is the deal, my wife of over 7 years now wants to leave me. She essentially tells me that she doesn't see how she can be happy with me. She is not talking divorce, but instead she simply wants to move out for a while. We have two children, the oldest is a 13 year old girl who is a step daughter. We also have a soon to be five year old girl.

Wow, didn't see that one coming. I knew she was unhapppy, but certainly not to that extent. She often told me she was tired, so I simply accepted that as fact.

The good news is she told me this last Saturday night and she has not left yet. Ironically after I commented on how I rarely saw her wear red and she looked good. One of her complaints was I didn't compliment her enough. So when I do, a few minutes later she says she wants to move out.

Well she hasn't yet, and I've tried to be less stressed, more understanding. But she says she just wants her space, and of course I want to talk this out.

So if I keep talking to her, I'll probably drive her out the door.

I read many of the articles here, and say, yep we did that, or are not doing the other thing that is recommended.

I can agree with the good doctor on much of what he says.

I think if I boil it down, our problem lies in this quote from the Dr

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Romance for most men is sex and recreation; for most women it's affection and conversation. When all four come together, men and women alike call it romance and they deposit the most love units possible. That makes these categories somewhat inseparable whenever you spend time together. My advice is to try to combine them all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The Dr has me nailed to the T. I told my wife before we married that sex 4x a day would be just about right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

For what it is worth, neither of us were virgins, but we never had intercourse with each other prior to marriage.

I would say that the Dr is right about my wife as well.

However, it is obvious to me that I've done/am doing something that causes her to no longer want to converse with me.

My biggest fear is that she has already checked out, emotionally of the marriage

I've been blaming her and trying to tell her that I'm not the one that doesn't want to talk, and that is probably right.

However, what I'd never considered is WHY she doesn't want to talk.

I believe she feels that I'm blaming her for things when we have these "talks" so she simply doesn't want to talk anymore.

So my prayer request is that you good people pray that Mrs javaContour can open up her heart one more time, so that I can show her that I don't want to break her heart, but want to help her heal it.

I fix things for a living, and I feel responsible for her broken heart. I want to help her put the pieces back together, for her sake, for the kids, and of course for us.

I cannot change her. I can ask God to soften her heart, which is justifiably hardened at this time. But this brings me to the next part of my prayer request, that I truly can become that thoughtful and compassionate husband that she deserves.

Some of it is selfish, I don't want to be a failure at marriage. My mother never married my father and divorced my sister's father at a young age. But the biggest part of it is I feel responsible for creating an envirionment where she doesn't feel safe and secure emotionally.

My worst fear is that it is too late, she has already checked out.

We both are hurt. She is mad at me because I didn't see it coming, I didn't understand her. I'm am mad/frustrated with her because she didn't send me messages in a form I understand.

She did send me messages, I was just too focused on me to even try to understand.

Since I cannot go back and do it over, I want the chance to do it right from here on.

I have faith that if she would only believe me when I say that I don't want to hurt her, I have faith that if she can learn to trust her feelings with me once again, that I can learn to recognize and support her emotionally once again.

All I need is some devine intervention to tear down the wall she is building as well as peace in my heart so I don't become so frustrated with this sudden (to me) change in my life that I force her to push me further away.

This is my prayer...

javaContour</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Dear java,
You should first thank God for DIR and lupolady. What a couple of great sisters in Christ. Listen to them, they are GODLY council to you. I agree, if you love your wife and want to keep your marriage, honor her. Forget yourself and take care of her like Jesus took care of us at the cross. You may learn to love her like you have never known love before. I pray that the restoration of your relationship becomes a testimony to others and that other marriages are saved because of it.
Jesus, bless java with wisdom, with humility, and with honor and respect for his covenant mate. Show him how to love her, adore her, to cherish her and to keep her. Lord, soften hearts, open hearts. Renew that love that they had for each other in the beginning. Lord, shine your light upon them both. In Jesus name. Amen
singleguy
PS: read 2 Chronicles 7:14

I felt much better today, and she is so tightly wound.

I just pray that she can unwind soon, so she doesn't break.

I called together my "girls" after Mrs javaContour, and our oldest Chelsea returned from the "Y" and some shopping to share with them about the day.

Actually all of the girls were gone a while in the afternoon, so I made a card for our youngest Camy.

Here is the background, I would always tease her and say "bleech" or "yuck" when she would show me hearts. So I made a simple hand drawn card with a big crayon heart on the front, and a short phrase that tell her I really do like hearts.

When I got them all together, I sat them down and gave Camy her card first, so I wouldn't exhaust her attention span. She was pretty excited to learn that daddy really did like hearts and that he was being a bit naughty by pretending he didn't. I apologized to her for lacking patience with her, and asked her to keep the card as a symbol of my comittment to change.

I let her check out and play with the "wolly worms" the girls caught earlier.

I then spoke to Chelsea and Mrs javaContour, I told them again where I was, and why I was there, and told them I remember being active in my faith when I met them, and that I had not been the spiritual leader they deserved the past 5 or so years.

I read to them from Ephesians 2 (part of the mornings sermon) and of course 1 Corinthians 13:4...

I told them that I was jealous of the relationship they had, and that I still wanted to be a big part of it. I apologize for not practicing the faith that I know in my heart and head was right, and asked them to forgive me.

I think Chelsea was dumbfounded. I don't think she knows exactly what Mrs javaContour is contemplating, but she does now something is wrong. However, Chelsea and I attended our first counselling session last Saturday, and that is about her and I getting along as step-dad and daughter.

Mrs javaContour seemed pleased that I would apologize to all of them in a public fashion.

After that, I've been at peace. There is nothing more I can say, I can only fufill and prove to her that what she sees is real.

Having that peace in my heart, and a calm mind will allow me to hear both what the Holy Spirit writes upon my heart, but to better tune in to what she is feeling and needing.

I slept through the night for the first time in weeks last night, although it was only for about 5 hours.

I'm on call this week, so I better get some sleep, so I am ready if the pager does go off.

Thanks to every on of you who is praying along with me, keep praying for Mrs javaContour, the girls and of course me too.

javaContour

Well she isn't gone, but she is looking at apartments. I think I am stressing her out by trying so hard.

So I'll back off a bit.

God has revealed to me that I have a tendancy to want to be right, and often I took that so far as to hurt her feelings.

So I'm in quite a fix now as if I try to talk her out of doing this, she will see it as my trying to be right again.

So just continue to pray that she sees this for what is really is, I'm awake again.

I shared this with her on Friday to go along with the awake metaphor:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Genesis 2:18-24 The Lord God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him." The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was asleep, he took part of the man's side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said, "This one at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one will be called 'woman,'
for she was taken out of man." That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become a new family.

It is as if I too have been asleep, not realizing who or what you are. I AM awake now and eager to atone for my selfish ways.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just pray that God continues to work on both of us.

Thanks,

javaContour

Well, she is planning to move into her apartment on the 1st of October, so just pray that I can keep it together.

I've lost about 12 pounds since she first said she wants to go.

She is still not talking divorce, and I want to believe her.

I've asked her if we could just have prayer time together, and she's even against this.

So pray for both of us and the kids that while apart, neither of us does anything to further harm the relationship.

javaContour

I've been a reading fool, and I'm trying to absorb and act on all of these thing I'm learning.

I don't know if I've said it here, but it seems Wednesday is the day she is planning to start the move, as it is the 1st of October.

I'm at peace with that and plan to help her move. Regardless of what happens, I do love her, and will not continue to be a selfish [censored], just to get my way.

The number one conclusion I keep coming to is that I need to put God back in charge of my life. He was in charge when I met her, and that was the man she was attracted to, so I have to return to being that "Man of God"

Number two, I need to trust God, that his will is what is right. This is hard for me, because I feel responsible for what happened. (Not totally resposible, but I am taking full responsiblity for what I did or how I reacted to what happened, is happening. There are things she can change too, so don't anyone think I'm beating myself up, because I'm not. I think I have a healthy self critique and am in contact with people I trust to make sure I'm not running myself down.)

I plan to help her move, and to provide support for her and our daughter.

I've started working out again, I've gone back to the doctor and am getting my hernia repaired (after the move, so I can help her) and I've plugged back into the church and have joined a Men's Bible study with accountability partners so I can have others hold me responsible for the promises I've made.

I've given her my pledges to change in writing, and asked her to comment honestly on the things I did to make her feel bad. Sort of a homework assignment that I can do while she is not here 24x7.

I've attempted to make contact with a former fiancee who I now know why she left me. I want to apologize to her and get some feedback from her to let her know that I now get it, and want to thank her for teaching me that lesson, but that it took me some 15+ years to get it. (I also want to see her baby pictures as she is now married with a 3yo, IN ALASKA of all places...)

I've called Lori's parents and apologized to them for treating their daughter in such a fashion as she feels this is the only solution. I've asked them to be honest with me and hold me accountable to the promises I've made. I think I've made it perfectly clear that I'm not trying to get them to side with me, but rather that I want to win back their daughter more than anything in the world, I understand that they have to be loyal and look out for her best interests, and that I hope I can count on them to make sure that I am doing the same thing.

I've come to peace with her going. Like I started with above, I have to trust that God is in charge, and he will make sure the right things happen in all of this.

I simply want to ask that you folks who are still praying, keep praying, as I want God to protect Lori, Chelsea, Camryn and even me, as we are apart and I can no longer protect her and the girls from a distance.

Thanks,

javaContour

Java,
Be sure to focus on being that man of God for God's sake and not just to get your wife back. I trust you will.
Dear Heavenly Father, I lift this marriage up to You and ask that Your awesome grave would go to work to revive and to reunite the covenant that they agreed to before You. Lord, we lose the powers of heaven to minister to, and to soften and to speak to their hearts. Father, reason with Lori and put infiuencesin her path that will cause her to see thru spiritual eyes what she is doing. Father, we ask that You would pour out Your awesome love and mercy upon this family and ask that You would make them a family with a great testimony. Father, we bind the works of the devil off of this family. In Jesus name. Amen
God Bless Java
singleguy

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by singleguy:
<strong>Java,
Be sure to focus on being that man of God for God's sake and not just to get your wife back. I trust you will.
Dear Heavenly Father, I lift this marriage up to You and ask that Your awesome grave would go to work to revive and to reunite the covenant that they agreed to before You. Lord, we lose the powers of heaven to minister to, and to soften and to speak to their hearts. Father, reason with Lori and put infiuencesin her path that will cause her to see thru spiritual eyes what she is doing. Father, we ask that You would pour out Your awesome love and mercy upon this family and ask that You would make them a family with a great testimony. Father, we bind the works of the devil off of this family. In Jesus name. Amen
God Bless Java
singleguy</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SingleGuy,

I believe God wants me to be either the best husband that she has ever had (currently the only husband) or the best ex-husband she has ever had.

I can do no more than that, and I'm sure I can find scripture to support such a position.

I simply seek to honor God and the comittment we made before him in that fashion.

Just because a court of men dissolves the marriage under man's law does not release these people from God's law.

javaContour

Java,
I will support and second your intentions. I know God will honor them as well. I pray nothing but God's perfect will for you.
God Bless
singleguy