TB - I'm afraid that I have a serious knowledge deficit regarding your situation since you've been on the system so long and this, as far as I can remember, is the first thread of yours that I responded to.

I spent a fair amount of time trying read your old posts (back to around Nov. 2003), but that was about the time your wife was leaving for her own apartment. There is much that I don't know about what led up to all of that, so I am very limited in what I can say or comment about your situation.

I have responded to this thread because another member pointed you out and asked for me, and other Christians, to try to help you. I have no interest in "arguing" points with you, especially points about subjective feelings.

I have to be very candid with you, though, that I am very perplexed that in all of the reading of your prior posts that I did, I got very little about this sin being against God. What I got was an overwhelming amount about how you felt the affair was wrong and would not tolerate the offense against you, that you laid down ultimatums, and that you practiced Love Busters.

I understand that, but where was God in all of this? Yes, I read the ONE post where you said you talked to the OM and asked him if he (he is supposedly a Christian) thinks God approves of his meddling and messing up a marriage, but again, I heard YOU, not God talking.

I heard nothing about a Matthew 18:15-20 type of intervention. But then, I also read nothing about your wife being a Christian or not.

I may be off base because I have come into this discussion so late, but it seems to be the same problem that we have been dancing with on this thread, it's all about you and your feelings, not about God.

Oh I hear the tacit acknowledgment of God, but I don't hear the surrender. I hear control. I hear TB wants it his way. I hear TB almost trying to manipulate God to give him a "feeling." I hear "God owes me what I want" even if that is not how God is trying to help me right now.

However, I also hear hopeful statements such as, "It's not that I want my way. Rather, I want to be closer to God. Isn't that what God wants?
"

Yes, that IS what God wants.

"Well, if it is the will of God to have a close relationship with me, and I seek the same will, why does God seem so distant? Why does comfort, not necessarily getting my way, but hearing, feeling and experiencing that God is there and working, seem so elusive?"

Why do YOU think that God seems so distant? Could it be a problem with trust? You need to "feel, hear, and experience" BEFORE you can trust God to be faithful to His promises. Perhaps you really don't believe God.

God asks you to release your worries and fears no matter how hard it seems to do, and simply trust Him like a child trusts a father. You simply choose to trust God and require NOTHING in return from God. God is Sovereign. You are His to do with as He sees fit, to command as He sees fit, to reward or not reward as He chooses, to break your old mishapen pot and then take the time needed to reform the broken shards into a better vessel of service to Him...all in God's time, not yours. But as a loving Father, He has promised to take care of you because he LOVES you, whether you "feel" it or not, whether you think you "getting what you want" or not. God is NOT in the "Feeling Business," He is in the Faith Business.

One of the reasons for much of Scripture, like Psalm 23, is to acknowledge that we are going to have very trying times when we do feel so distant from God, so distant that we can't see Him (or feel Him). And He says to simply trust Him to lead you, to use His rod and His staff to provide comfort. To quite your thoughts, fears, doubts, sense of aloneness...to be alone with God, in quite...."be still and KNOW that I am God."

God bless. Reach out with your hand as a child does with its father. Take God's hand and let Him lead, even though you don't know where He is leading you and even though you can't "see or feel" the proferred Peace yet. Trust God.

JSC, in case you are still reading this thread i'll go ahead and say a few words. i'll admit that i read this thread almost as soon as it was started but stopped shortly after because of what i was hearing from you. i know a little more about your situation than others and a lot less then some but I'm sorry, all i got from all of your posts in this thread is your arrogance and a slap in the face by YOU to all those here.

how can you come here and ask for help but not want to hear the things that are said? you said "I'm willing to follow the direction of God, but it must be unmistakably a message from God and not just a well meaning message from other believers. So what I ask of you folks today is that you not tell me what you think God would have me do, but that you ask God to tell me in such a fashion is that it is unmistakably Him speaking." well this is totally an oxy moron by asking us for help but at the same time saying you don't want just well meaning messages from other believers.

i don't feel like i can really add to the conversation at all, but pretty much feel everyone here is on the mark especially CJ, who at one time i thought was someone you thought of highly and talked w/often. you are not going to get the answers JSV is seeking by coming across the way you are and in truth maybe you will never have that here on MB. i'm sure if you are still reading this your heart rate has increased and you are probably getting defensive, etc. but there is something to the saying "the truth hurts." you have God's word, you are choosing not to hear it.

prayers to you, RR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by roughroad:
<strong> JSC, in case you are still reading this thread i'll go ahead and say a few words. i'll admit that i read this thread almost as soon as it was started but stopped shortly after because of what i was hearing from you. i know a little more about your situation than others and a lot less then some but I'm sorry, all i got from all of your posts in this thread is your arrogance and a slap in the face by YOU to all those here.

how can you come here and ask for help but not want to hear the things that are said? you said "I'm willing to follow the direction of God, but it must be unmistakably a message from God and not just a well meaning message from other believers. So what I ask of you folks today is that you not tell me what you think God would have me do, but that you ask God to tell me in such a fashion is that it is unmistakably Him speaking." well this is totally an oxy moron by asking us for help but at the same time saying you don't want just well meaning messages from other believers.

i don't feel like i can really add to the conversation at all, but pretty much feel everyone here is on the mark especially CJ, who at one time i thought was someone you thought of highly and talked w/often. you are not going to get the answers JSV is seeking by coming across the way you are and in truth maybe you will never have that here on MB. i'm sure if you are still reading this your heart rate has increased and you are probably getting defensive, etc. but there is something to the saying "the truth hurts." you have God's word, you are choosing not to hear it.

prayers to you, RR </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still reading, and I do have my reasons.

What is wrong for wanting to be 100% certain?

Please re-read the book of Job, there were a lot of well meaning folks who thought they were telling Job what they thought God wanted him to hear.

Then God spoke.

TB

<small>[ September 20, 2004, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

Tony,

I’ve been reading your posts ever since you started posting. I was in the group of people exchanging e-mails with you in Feb. I know you want to hear from God in an unmistakable way. According to your posts you say you’ve been reading God’s word. I’m glad, because I’m going to ask you some questions. I’m not asking you this just to hear myself talk (type). I’m really serious about it.

What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your wife, your marriage, your daughter and your life? What do you really think He wants to happen? And “I don’t know” won’t cut it. Because deep down I think you know these answers.

If you would, could you answer each one individually, because they are individual questions? Think about them for a bit before you answer. I don’t want a response, I want well thought out answers.

After you answer; there’s something I want you to do with those answers. I’ll tell you what after you reply. If you would rather e-mail me, that is ok too. You should have my e-mail address. If not, go to the link in my sig. Or just ask me for it.

Brother I’m sorry for what you are going through and you continue to be in my prayers.

Blessing to you.

S&C

<small>[ September 20, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> Tony,



What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your wife?
</strong>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That she is loved by Him, but she is not honoring the vow that she made before Him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your marriage?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That it certainly didn't honor Him before, that we could honor Him and have a successful marriage if we BOTH seek His will.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your daughter?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That she would best be raised in a family that loves and serves God. It's God's will that all should know Him, and that parents raise up a child in the ways of the Lord. So God wants to know her as well.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your life?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have not lived up to my potential that He created in me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
What do you really think He wants to happen?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He wants His will in each of those.

Now that I've answered, why can't I say I don't know? If God wants these things, or more correctly I believe He wants these things based on what I know scripturally or in the case of His opinion of me, personally, then with the exception of me living up to my potential, why don't they happen?

I know, I'm trying to apply logic here and God's ways are not my ways. Ok, I admit that it's hard for me to accept, and I need some help with this, some major help.

So why is it when I feel I need the most help, to have the clarity to understand that I'm hearing from God and not from Eliphaz, Bildad or Zophar, that I am not sure.

I know God is not the God of confusion, so if I'm confused, it's not from God.

So I'm asking for God to clear up the confusion, to break down any barriers to me serving Him.

Doesn't mean I'll be perfect, and frankly, I think Jesus teaches us that we cannot be perfect, that we must endeavor to have a relationship with Him (John 3, for example)

People are getting down on me for questioning God, and frankly, I believe that God wants us to question Him.

Why do I believe this?

Why would God allow the doubts of Thomas or the man with the possesed son be part of scripture if it wasn't ok to doubt?

That tells me clearly that God wants us to doubt, and to work to find the answers to get through the doubt.

Maybe I'm a bit more melodramatic than was Thomas, but my doubts are no less valid and certainly are not a sin. If they were, we would see a rebuke for those who expressed doubts, right?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
If you would, could you answer each one individually, because they are individual questions? Think about them for a bit before you answer. I don’t want a response, I want well thought out answers.

After you answer; there’s something I want you to do with those answers. I’ll tell you what after you reply. If you would rather e-mail me, that is ok too. You should have my e-mail address. If not, go to the link in my sig. Or just ask me for it.

Brother I’m sorry for what you are going through and you continue to be in my prayers.

Blessing to you.

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

If its any consolation, the wanting clear direction is driving me up the wall too.

Most of the time I am waiting for something to happen that I can respond to.

And the only way I feel sure is Gods way of responding is to apply more love.

When I don't know what else to do, I try for more love, more understanding. The love your enemies and pray for those who hurt you, bit...

I try to think what I would need from him if the shoe was on the other foot.

Frustrating, not knowing if I have a husband or not.
But its too much to bear to think that the past 20 years of loving him and praying for him have all been a waste of time.

I do not accept that.

Hers what it boils down to for me is:
Will I still love him even if we are never together as man and wife again? Would I still pray my guts out even if I knew there was nothing in it for me?


This is hard, yes?

Tony,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

“What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your wife?”

That she is loved by Him, but she is not honoring the vow that she made before Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. Do you consider her a prodigal? Do you think God considers her a prodigal? Do you know the ways in which God may handle His wayward children?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your marriage?’

That it certainly didn't honor Him before, that we could honor Him and have a successful marriage if we BOTH seek His will.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. With the key word being “BOTH”. And what if only one of you is willing to seek His will?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your daughter?”

That she would best be raised in a family that loves and serves God. It's God's will that all should know Him, and that parents raise up a child in the ways of the Lord. So God wants to know her as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct again. But what if only one parent is willing to do that?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your life?’

I have not lived up to my potential that He created in me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That may very well be true, but that is in the past (if you’ve asked for forgiveness then God doesn’t care about it any more). The question is, are you living up to your potential now regarding you and your daughter?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think He wants to happen?”

He wants His will in each of those.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on what you know about God, what do you think His will really is for each of these? Answer them individually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

why can't I say I don't know?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because I wanted you to really think about the answers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

If God wants these things, or more correctly I believe He wants these things based on what I know scripturally or in the case of His opinion of me, personally, then with the exception of me living up to my potential, why don't they happen?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why “with the exception of you living up to your potential”?

When your daughter is old enough to marry and if she finds a man of questionable character, what would you do? Will you force her to stop seeing the man? Or will you in your strongest means possible try to dissuade her from choosing him? After having done that, will you still let her choose?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

I know, I'm trying to apply logic here and God's ways are not my ways. Ok, I admit that it's hard for me to accept, and I need some help with this, some major help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it’s hard. When my W asked me for a D, it shattered my life. But Abraham didn’t know what God was going to do when he raised the knife to sacrifice his son. All he knew was that it was God’s will that he would be a father of nations. When God told me that my M would be blessed, I remembered that He never said that my M to my W would be blessed. I just knew that He would heal my heart and I would have a blessed M. It was at that point that I quit hanging on to the M and focused on allowing God to heal me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

So why is it when I feel I need the most help, to have the clarity to understand that I'm hearing from God and not from Eliphaz, Bildad or Zophar, that I am not sure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because the enemy will try to confuse you to keep you from doing what scripture says. He will tell you to rely on your feelings rather than the promises of God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

I know God is not the God of confusion, so if I'm confused, it's not from God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. So if you are confused what does God provide you to clear up the confusion?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

So I'm asking for God to clear up the confusion, to break down any barriers to me serving Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if you are confused what does God provide you to clear up the confusion?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

Doesn't mean I'll be perfect, and frankly, I think Jesus teaches us that we cannot be perfect, that we must endeavor to have a relationship with Him (John 3, for example)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

People are getting down on me for questioning God, and frankly, I believe that God wants us to question Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think God can handle any question we have. He’s bigger than that. Goodness if he can’t handle a mere mortal questioning Him then he’s a pretty small God in my book. Where I think God gets disappointed, is when He provides answers to us and we ignore them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

That tells me clearly that God wants us to doubt, and to work to find the answers to get through the doubt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He gave us minds to think with. He expects us to use them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

Maybe I'm a bit more melodramatic than was Thomas, but my doubts are no less valid and certainly are not a sin. If they were, we would see a rebuke for those who expressed doubts, right?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right.

Sorry I’m late in responding. If I remember right there are a few time zones between us and I hope you are getting some valuable zzz's as I write this.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but if you're patient with me, I hope you get some of your answers.

Bless you.

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> Tony,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

“What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your wife?”

That she is loved by Him, but she is not honoring the vow that she made before Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right. Do you consider her a prodigal? Do you think God considers her a prodigal? Do you know the ways in which God may handle His wayward children?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Any number of ways, but it seems he just waits for them to come back for the most part.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your marriage?’

That it certainly didn't honor Him before, that we could honor Him and have a successful marriage if we BOTH seek His will.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. With the key word being “BOTH”. And what if only one of you is willing to seek His will?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, God get's dissed, and the one who seeks to honor God might be hurt. Sure God takes care of the partner who chooses to honor those vows, but that doesn't relieve a bit of the hurt to know that right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your daughter?”

That she would best be raised in a family that loves and serves God. It's God's will that all should know Him, and that parents raise up a child in the ways of the Lord. So God wants to know her as well.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct again. But what if only one parent is willing to do that?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That parent still has to do what God expects, even if the other parent doesn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think God’s opinion is regarding your life?’

I have not lived up to my potential that He created in me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That may very well be true, but that is in the past (if you’ve asked for forgiveness then God doesn’t care about it any more). The question is, are you living up to your potential now regarding you and your daughter?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm getting better everyday. I probably still spend too much time here at MB instead of dealing with my customers for example, but I don't visit when I have my D with me. That's just one way I can think of.

I've volunteered to work in my church, but so far this year they have not taken me up on my offer, so I guess God (or at least this church) doesn't have anything for me to do in that regard.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

”What do you really think He wants to happen?”

He wants His will in each of those.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on what you know about God, what do you think His will really is for each of these? Answer them individually.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

why can't I say I don't know?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because I wanted you to really think about the answers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

If God wants these things, or more correctly I believe He wants these things based on what I know scripturally or in the case of His opinion of me, personally, then with the exception of me living up to my potential, why don't they happen?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why “with the exception of you living up to your potential”?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, with the exception... that part was my opinion. They are all really my opinion, and that's why I want to really hear from God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>

When your daughter is old enough to marry and if she finds a man of questionable character, what would you do? Will you force her to stop seeing the man? Or will you in your strongest means possible try to dissuade her from choosing him? After having done that, will you still let her choose?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, I can't force her to do anything, I can only raise her in the way of the Lord and hope that she will make good choices.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

I know, I'm trying to apply logic here and God's ways are not my ways. Ok, I admit that it's hard for me to accept, and I need some help with this, some major help.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it’s hard. When my W asked me for a D, it shattered my life. But Abraham didn’t know what God was going to do when he raised the knife to sacrifice his son. All he knew was that it was God’s will that he would be a father of nations. When God told me that my M would be blessed, I remembered that He never said that my M to my W would be blessed. I just knew that He would heal my heart and I would have a blessed M. It was at that point that I quit hanging on to the M and focused on allowing God to heal me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

So why is it when I feel I need the most help, to have the clarity to understand that I'm hearing from God and not from Eliphaz, Bildad or Zophar, that I am not sure.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because the enemy will try to confuse you to keep you from doing what scripture says. He will tell you to rely on your feelings rather than the promises of God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

I know God is not the God of confusion, so if I'm confused, it's not from God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again. So if you are confused what does God provide you to clear up the confusion?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He provides His word, and when I read His word, I see that this is not His will. I read that He will provide peace and I have no peace. It is His word that is so darn confusing.

I'd like to ask the author for some clarification, some specifics as they relate to my life. So I pray, and I hear nothing. I've heard answers before, now I hear nothing.

Maybe what I heard before wasn't really God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

So I'm asking for God to clear up the confusion, to break down any barriers to me serving Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if you are confused what does God provide you to clear up the confusion?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See above. Oh, and if you are looking for the Holy Spirit as well, I'm not feeling or hearing that either.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

Doesn't mean I'll be perfect, and frankly, I think Jesus teaches us that we cannot be perfect, that we must endeavor to have a relationship with Him (John 3, for example)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

People are getting down on me for questioning God, and frankly, I believe that God wants us to question Him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think God can handle any question we have. He’s bigger than that. Goodness if he can’t handle a mere mortal questioning Him then he’s a pretty small God in my book. Where I think God gets disappointed, is when He provides answers to us and we ignore them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

That tells me clearly that God wants us to doubt, and to work to find the answers to get through the doubt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He gave us minds to think with. He expects us to use them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by javaSansContour:

Maybe I'm a bit more melodramatic than was Thomas, but my doubts are no less valid and certainly are not a sin. If they were, we would see a rebuke for those who expressed doubts, right?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right.

Sorry I’m late in responding. If I remember right there are a few time zones between us and I hope you are getting some valuable zzz's as I write this.

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but if you're patient with me, I hope you get some of your answers.

Bless you.

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I sound combative, and frankly, it's hard to just hear the "pat" answers because I really need to experience them.

Of course the problem is all mine, God is perfect, so I must be screwed up.

TB

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
but it seems he just waits for them to come back for the most part.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that what it says happened to the prodigal in the Bible? What had to happen before the Prodigal Son decided to return? Could he still have choosen to reject his father?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, God get's dissed, and the one who seeks to honor God might be hurt. Sure God takes care of the partner who chooses to honor those vows, but that doesn't relieve a bit of the hurt to know that right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like you're saying, the one the honors God gets hurt because they chose to honor God; instead of, they get hurt because the actions of the one that doesn't honor God. If neither one honored God the hurt would still be there.

No it doesn't relieve the the hurt, because you have feelings for your W and she chooses to treat you like crap. It wouldn't feel that bad if you didn't have those feelings. But that ain't going to happen any time soon is it?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That parent still has to do what God expects, even if the other parent doesn't.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even if it hurts to do it without the other?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm getting better everyday.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How are you getting better everyday?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've volunteered to work in my church, but so far this year they have not taken me up on my offer, so I guess God (or at least this church) doesn't have anything for me to do in that regard.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is that because they feel you need some more healing or do they think you are damaged goods and undesirable for ministry?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, I can't force her to do anything, I can only raise her in the way of the Lord and hope that she will make good choices.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then you know why God doesn't force your W to come back to Him or you. Because, it needs to be of her own free will. What good does it do either of you if she is forced to submit? And what good will your M be if she comes back to you but still rejects God? Can you live like that either? I had to answer those questions myself. That's when I realized that it was more important to have her come back to God first. Because if she didn't return to God, it was only a matter of time before she strayed again. I'd always be wondering about any relationship she had with any man. And you will too.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So why is it when I feel I need the most help, to have the clarity to understand that I'm hearing from God and not from Eliphaz, Bildad or Zophar, that I am not sure.

Because the enemy will try to confuse you to keep you from doing what scripture says. He will tell you to rely on your feelings rather than the promises of God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why no comment about this?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He provides His word, and when I read His word, I see that this is not His will. I read that He will provide peace and I have no peace. It is His word that is so darn confusing.

I'd like to ask the author for some clarification, some specifics as they relate to my life. So I pray, and I hear nothing. I've heard answers before, now I hear nothing.


Maybe what I heard before wasn't really God.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't know. But I do know, when I want to know if God is speaking to me I can check it against Scripture to see if it agrees.


[quote}See above. Oh, and if you are looking for the Holy Spirit as well, I'm not feeling or hearing that either.[/quote]

Have you tested the answers you've gotten against Scripture to see if the answers are sound?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I sound combative, and frankly, it's hard to just hear the "pat" answers because I really need to experience them.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you consider answers that refer to Scripture "pat answers"? Because 2 Timothy 3:16 tells us that "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course the problem is all mine, God is perfect, so I must be screwed up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, quite frankly God is perfect and we are all screwed up. That's why we need to have wise counsel around in the form of Godly friends and to read God's word for ourselves. Because we don't always see clearly enough to survive the storms.

When I read now I pray the prayer Paul prayed for the Ephesians Chapter 1 verses 17-20. I pray it for myself and my W.

Bless you.

S&C

try listening to this- very good.

http://www.intouch.org/highlights/thisfall/enemystrikes/webcast_39117043.html

When the Enemy Strikes - Charles Stanley - Live Webcast

Peace Out...and IN!

TB,

I read your post and told my husband, I remember feeling just like this man does. I got so upset one night I threw my Bible across the room. I was needing to hear from God and was reading His word in order to get an answer, to hear Him, or just to get some direction. I would come across a scripture and then I would think, well did God give me that scripture or was I just looking so hard I found what I wanted to hear? I became so frustrated.

Believe me that wasn't the only time I had a similar experience during the four years I waited for my husband to come home. I didn't want it to be my will for my husband to come home, I wanted to know if it was God's will. It didn't matter what anyone else told me, I wanted to hear it from God. After fasting for three days, God gave me my answer. He showed me He did want my marriage restored. That was just 11 months after my husband had left.

Yes, even after God gave me His answer, I still questioned Him at times. Again, during hard times I would ask God if I heard him right. Sometimes He would answer me right away. Other times He would seem to take forever to answer me. I would want to give up. I would go through my options and then I would also end right back were I started ... waiting.

You said you wanted to be 100% sure, When my husband first left I ask a friend why couldn't God just tell me my marriage would be restored? That way I would be all right and able to hang on.
She said, then you wouldn't need faith.

We don't know how strong our faith is until it is all we have to hang on to. Keep you eyes on God and hold on to your faith. God will answer you and when he does and then you get where it seems like you can hold on any longer, you will ask Him again.

gentle

hi all- good thread.

Gentle- what is the hits4pay link that you post?

PEACE OUT

It is a web site that pays you to read emails. You also get paid for others reading emails that you sign up. It is not much but if you get enough people you can make a little money.

gentle

Tony?

Yes, I'm still here and still rolling around the last post in my head. I probably can't write much more until later tonight after YD is in bed.

Tony,

Check out this link - Cry of the Spirit Maybe it will help you keep your faith about God's promises. Hope this helps.

Love in Christ,
Y

StandingTogether,

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have to be honest and say that didn't really help. Sure, I can understand it intellectually, but it doesn't really help.

I recognize you are trying, and I do appreciate the effort.

TB

JSC--

You brought up Job, so I'm going to throw him back at you a little. Job has always been a favorite book of mine (Although, I admit, I skip through the middle.) But at the end, God says to the wretched comforters, "Shut up, you don't know what your talking about. You've slandered a righteous man, go repent and have him pray for you." Then he turns and says to Job, "Wipe the smirk off your face. Who do you think you are to challenge me? Who do you think you are to try understand my motivation for doing things? What makes you think your mind can contain what my will is?" God then blesses Job and gives him a new set of everything that had been taken away, and even more. (Paraphrased, of course.)

And unfortunately, that's where it's ended. Crap happens. We can't understand why God allows it to happen. God doesn't unhappen it.

For people like you and I (If I am not too presumptuous to once again link you and I together) it is intensely difficult to give up the question "Why?" That is the question that defines our being. And I think it's not a bad thing to ask God, and as you said Argue with him and plead with him and beg him to get a glimpse of why. But remember his answer, "You just ain't gonna get it, 'cause it won't fit in your mind." I gave you some glimpses of potential why's in my first post. There are tons of other whys just waiting to be discovered.

I guess in summary, I don't think you'll ever get your full answer, but keep questioning and you'll start getting partial answers.

I may not be correct, but to me Tony believes God keeps His promises. I believe what Tony is saying is he is just not sure what God has promised him concerning his current situation.

My apologies Tony if I am not right abut this. As I posted earlier, when I read your post it reminded me so much of how I felt many times during the time God had me in the desert. At the time I had a lot of whys and how comes. Later on it was easier to see what God was doing in my life. It especially became easier to see when my husband did come home.

It is hard to walk in faith when you don't believe you are hearing from God. It is hard when you don't know what God is doing on the other side of the mountain for you.

Tony, it took a long time for me but I finally got to the point where I begged God to put the desires He had for me in my heart. I told God I wanted to want what he wanted for me. Our hearts are in His hands, so I knew it had to come from Him. It didn't happen all at once, but when my heart truly cried out to Him, when I truly submitted to Him, things changed. It was a point were I needed my will to be His will.

I hope this helps, I do know the frustration you are going through right now. Sometimes I still am not sure what God wants me to do. There are still things to be worked out in my marriage and with my children. I grateful that God brought my husband home, because that terrible feeling in the pit of my stomach is gone. Praise God He has done great things in my life. There are still times I am not sure what He is saying to me.

I have to have faith that He is or will talk to me
when the time is right. I haven't posted much on here in the time since my husband came home. Your post jumped out at me and then after reading your post I felt I had to take the time to respond. So maybe I was supposed to say something to you. If that is the case, I pray it was said.

gentle

I'm sorry you feel that way Tony, like you I have felt that way for a long time and finally I got some good news. After the law guardian finished with her interviews, she recommended that we have shared physical custody of my 2 children without a designated primary custodial parent. I think it means that when they are with me I'm their custodial parent adn that goes the same for my wife, off course my wife can fight this, but I'm praying to God that she will not. I'm not so sure that is part of the answer that God is giving me, but I think it is all in the big plan that he had for me. Hang in there, I believe that the answer will come in God's time not our. Sometime, I wish that he give it to us in our time..lol..


Gentle,
It is good to see you back, I haven't seen you post in a while. I'm still praying for you as I do for GreggC. How are you these days. God bless!