Telly, your advice about living in the "here and now" is very good.

But I am curious as to what it is about CEH's and my posts that you "detest." Perhaps you could clarify. I'm assuming it is not the "obey God's commands" and "wait on the Lord" or even "read the Scripture" that you find "detestable." So I'll make the same "deal" with you that I made previously with another poster....I'll be happy to relinquish all attempts, however futile or detestable they might be, to help CEH if YOU are willing to take over and respond to him. I have NO problem with letting someone else "take a crack" at it because God can use anyone He chooses to help someone else. I have no exclusivity and no authority....that remains God's domain.

Why not ask me what I detest? What distracts from communication and what works?

I'll give you a hint. I really don't need someone to call me names, even tacitly. It just puts me on the defense.

I don't know if you mean to send this message, but this is what I've heard...

Grow up T (tacit message, you're childish)
prefering milk over meat (tacit message, you're a child, yes I know it's in scripture)

Calling someone a child, while perhaps a true statement, does ZERO to help them grow.

If you want to say I can do better, I can grow more. I'm with you. If you want to just call me a child and try to goad me into something, then you are not going to connect very well.

T

I don't understand what you are trying to say above.

I'm just look for a "what worked for you" You know, where did you find God. Perhaps look over my shoulder and say maybe you should try this...

A little faith is all I have left. I was listening to Dr Stanley on the radio yesterday and again today. He was talking about sharing with your children about the prayers that were answered.

I'm wonder what Dr. Stanely would tell my YD knowing that the first time my YD heard me pray was when I prayed that our family would be restored.

So my YD has seen me pray and seen that God wouldn't, couldn't, didn't or hasn't made a restored family in His best design for family. What is YD going to think about prayer.

What about her prayers asking for a restored family?

This isn't just about MY faith, it's about the faith of my YD, my ex-wife, my step-daughter.

I just need God to take what little faith I have left and show me the hope I have is more than just words in scripture.

T

Thanks for sharing this.

T

Telly,

Thanks. I'm a planner and thinker by nature, so I want a plan to act. What you are asking is quite a stretch for me, but I'll see what I can do.

Thanks,

T

T,


What I'm trying to say is; if you do not believe the infallable Word of God or act on it because you "feel" you should be doing something else. ...if you are unsure if your answers are coming from God or the enemy, then what is to keep you from questioning an auditable voice. Or if something does get written on your blank piece of paper. How are you going to know it wasn't the enemy doing it?


I've told you. What worked for me; when I finally realized that my life wouldn't end if my W chose to leave me. I still needed to take a good hard look at myself and ask God where I needed to change. Because if my W would ever chose to love me again, I needed to make those changes. If she chose to leave, me I still needed to make those changes, because I was determined not to do the same thing with the next Mrs. S&C. It was one of the hardest things I have ever done. I never realized how selfish I really was until then. Even after I made the changes, my W didn't believe they were permanent. It took her over three years to get to the point where she really believed it was true.

I'm not saying you haven't done anything to change, you have made great efforts. But from your posts, it "seems" like you still have a way to go. To many, IMHO, it appears like it "has to be your way". My brother was like that when he and I parnered in a business. I told him I was keeping him as a brother and losing him as a business partner and left the business. And in a marriage that just won't fly either. There is very little or no respect for the other person when someone has to have it like that.

Regarding prayer??? Your D will learn whatever you teach her about it. If you teach her that God is a genie to answer every one of our requests, that's what she will learn (and be very discouraged by it). If you teach her that prayer is talking with God and prayer requests are things you ask fo,r subject to sin in our lives, free will and motives. Then she will learn to have a right life with God, be intmate with Him and she will know how to pray for things (within His will) and get answers.


Then I suggest you take Telly's advice and start there. It is probably the wisest advice you have received on this thread. (Telly, very good stuff there!).

Blessings to you.

S&C

Bump.

S&C,

Yes.

Well, I've thought about what you said, and I don't see what is so wrong with wanting things my way. I sought what I thought was the will of God, based on scripture, avoiding divorce and reconciling our marriage.

I am unclear on what scripture says to do now that the divorce is final.

Feelings or no feelings, that doesn't matter. Pardon me for having a hard time understanding what God wants me to do when it seems scripture wants marriages to stay together, yet this is now what happens.

So I have some doubt and would like God to provide clarity and guidance.

Thanks,
T

Tony,

Scripture is very clear on what we are to do regardless of what else happens to us throughout our lives, good or bad or undeserved or unfair, whatever. It is clear we have one goal in life & that is to serve God, regardless of the circumstances around us.

T,

First of all. If I remember right isn't today your bIrthday? Happy Birthday. If it's not then try to have a blessed day.

Second, you need to re read my post. You didn't acknowledge or respond to anything I posted to you.

Third,


Becasue we (humans beings) don't always think straight. Our perspective tends to be a bit warped because we are blinded by what we want. I'm sure your exW asked the same question. What was so wrong with her wanting things her way? But she couldn't see what was wrong. And that is that problem you need to deal with. You are so blinded by what you want, you are unable or unwilling to see the reality of what is before you.

So, I'll ask you again. If you don't believe God's written word now, how are you going to be able to know with 100% certainty whether it is God speaking to you directly or the enemy decieving you?

S&C

S&C,

I did the same things you did. I asked God what I needed to change. I could see some of them, but I doubt I can see it all as you said.

Regarding wanting things my way. I purposely chose what I read in scripture was God's way. Do you agree that God wants marriages to remain whole? For husbands and wives to come closer to Him?

That's what I wanted, what I've been taught was God's will, by both His scripture and by multitudes of believers.

So, I sought what I believed, based on scripture, was God's will an was disappointed.

So now I'm called selfish (or at least that is what is alluded to or what I'm hearing) for being disappointed that God's will didn't prevail.

I see clearly the reality of the situation. My wife is gone, I get to see my daughter 6 days/month, I have more time to myself, I have fewer bills, I have more freedom. In some ways I have more peace, in others I have less. What I don't see clearly is where to go from here. I see clearly the reality of my situation. What I don't see clearly is what do I do with the situation?

Sure serve God, but specifically how?

I don't have an answer for the whole 100% certain issue. I guess if I knew...

I don't totally understand, and I guess I never will. I want to understand, but doubt I ever will.

T

T,


Yes I agree with that!


Are you dissappointed with God's will as you stated above, or are you dissapointed with the choices your W made?


I got a call from someone in my church yesterday. They had been praying for a home because they needed to move out of their current home by today. They had picked out a house to live in that they thougth was perfect. Last Friday they were informed that there was a problem with their credit check and the house was given to someone else. hey didn't even give them a change to figure out what the problem was and resolve it. So on Tuesday they scrambling around trying to clear up the (supposed) credit issue AND find a new house so they canbe moved out by today. They finally end up calling the supervisor of the company that gave their house away and it ended up that there was no credit issue at all only a misunderstanding andthey were told to check out another set of houses. They ended up with a bigger house, larger yard with a boat launch right next door; at the same price as the other home. Their main goal was to trust God and just keep working with what they had. God came through at a time where it looked hopeless for them and it looked like they would be homeless for who knows how long.



Yes she is. It is out of your hands. God "will" continue to work on her, and she will either repent or not (that is in her hands only, on one elses, not even God's).

Is it possible that there is a woman out there that is a better person for you? i will tell you what I tell the single people in my church. Make a list of what you in a man/woman give them godly virtues, pray over that list, askGOd to send them your way and never settle for less. God is preparing that person for you, but they may not be ready yet so be patient.



That's 6 days a month you get to show her she can trust God even through, ...especially through the hard times. You can show her God's love and how God wants us to treat other people. You can show her that you still love her by spending good quality time with her. You can show her how to use money. There are so many things you can teach her and ways you love her. Six days makes you think about what is the most important thing about the two of you.


Spend it with God.


Give more to God's work


Proclaim it and do something spontanious and fun.


Why did Jesus come to Earth? To save that which was lost. Your service should either directly or indirectly influence. Either by you teaching, witnessing or modeling Jesus' love for others or assisting others that do that.


That's why we need faith my friend. Because you and I will never know 100%. But we can trust in the one who does know 100% and wants to give us (you and I) very good things. I know if I don't get something I want, God has something better for me. I just need to stop thinking small potatoes and think big.

That's my .02 worth for today. Bless you.

S&C

BTW was it your BD yesterday?

BUMP

Well, it wasn't God's will to change me enough to convince exW to choose me over the affair, so yes, I'm disappointed with God, with me and with exW.

I asked to be changed, to be the biblical husband he designed husbands to be. To be so attractive that she would have second thoughts about all of this.

Didn't happen. I wasn't/didn't change enough to win her back.

So now my family is torn apart, and God's will certainly wasn't done. So I'm disappointed.

This cuts both ways. I feel more frustration than hope. Everytime I hear one of these stories, I feel happy that someone got a blessing, and then frustrated asking God why He is withholding such blessings from me.

Yes, to know that someone you love is outside of God's will hurts.

Patience is difficult, I want it now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I just feel so disconnected from my YD now. She doesn't call, I can't reach her on the phone most of the time.


I try, I still don't hear Him. Like I said, I read scripture and just get frustrated for the same reasons that I mentioned above.

I do, even going on a mission trip to Peru in two weeks.



I guess I'd just like to see some fruit for the faith and prayers I've presented to God. Maybe he could just have my YD keep her promises that she will call. Yeah, I know, she is only 6 but it would go a long way to convince me that God is actually listening and cares about what I think and feel.

T

Okaaaayyyy...so it's God's FAULT that sin and disobedience are in your life and your ex-wife's life. I'm beginning to understand your difficulty...you don't see "no" as an answer from God. You want to "shift responsibility" to God because the "magic genie" didn't "grant your wish" regardless of whether or not it was in your best interest, both now and in the future.


And just HOW is it God's responsibility to change you "instantly" into something different? Something that would make your wife drop everything and come running back to you? Where is your WORK, your responsibility to make changes in yourself permanent and real through the gradual process that SANCTIFICATION entails? The changes in conforming to a more of a "Christ-likeness" are for YOU. How others react to those changes is up to them, but you don't make those changes for "them," you make them for "you" and out of love for God and His sacrifice for YOU.


No doubt you ARE disappointed. But that disappointment comes from blaming God, as if it was HIS responsibility to DO whatever you commanded Him to do. You are trying to shift responsibility away from your wife and her choices, away from you and the sort of marriage that you, as the head of the household had, and "dump" it on God while trying to "twist" Scripture to show that God is "supposed" to grant you your wishes exactly as you wish them.

You forget the key component of prayer...that while we bring our supplication to the Lord, we leave it up to God to respond according to His Omniscience and will for what is best for us, regardless of whether or not it may seem to be what WE want or not. We trust God to "know what is best" for us even if we can't see it from our limited and finite perspective.

I did NOT say that it was easy...we are human. We DO want to avoid pain and anguish. But if that comes our way...HOW we respond to it adds to or takes away from our walk with Christ. CEH, Marriage IS a "top priority" of God because "it's not good for man to be alone." BUT your INDIVIDUAL walk with Him is even more important because in heaven there will be neither marriage nor giving in marriage.

The "test" for a Christian is in surrendering to God and putting Christ as our sovereign Lord, with the right to do anything He wants, to grant or not grant our petitions as HE sees fit for our best interest, to surrender our will and 'human desire' to be on the throne and to be sovereign whereby God obeys our will.

Our reaction, our "disappointment," etc. has a lot to do with whether or not we BELIEVE God is in control regardless of circumstances on earth or in our lives and whether or not we believe God LOVES us and CARES for us even when everything we hold "near and dear" is ripped away from us (ala Job). YES, we ARE an impatient people, and we are PRONE to blaming God because all we can see is the "here and now," and not the future. Our life on earth becomes the "most important," whereas to God our life on earth is inconsequetial and HE is more interested in our place of eternal life.

God bless.

FH,

You're right, it is my fault. I asked to be born with original sin. I asked to be born a sinner and not in a different state. I asked God to find me a partner who would be unfaithful to me.

Of course not, I asked God what work I needed to do, and for a chance.

I didn't even get answers to that.

If God wants the best for us, then why is my daughter now shuttled between her parents instead of in a loving Christ centered home?

You talk about doing the work. It's difficult to be motivated to do the work if you can't see the reward. Where is the closer relationship with God that is the most important relationship?

It seems such a cop out that if one can't experience God that it is their fault. Seems to me that if God really wanted a relationship with us, then he'd be here when we call. Not as some cosmic genie, but as a loving father.

Do I blame God, yes. I want Him in my life, to lead me, to guide me, to confort me. I've asked and he stays away. I don't have the power to keep Him away. I can't choose for God if He comes to me or not.

Only God can choose, and it seems He chooses to stay away.

So I don't blame Him for the choices I made, or my ex-wife makes. But I do blame Him for not showing me the way when I asked the way. For not giving me comfort during the pain of the divorce.

I counted on God to show me how to build my relationship with Him, to heal my family, and if He wouldn't or couldn't do that, that he would heal me and use me.

None of that is anything I can do with my current abilities or strength.

I'll be gone for a week or so, in Peru on a mission trip. I can't do much to heal my own heart or to fix my family. Maybe I can do some work in a Peruvian seminary, maintaining and repairing the place.

I'd like God to fix my heart like I'm offering to fix the broken parts of that place.

I keep giving God the pieces of my broken spirit and heart, yet it is not healed.

What more can I do?

T

This is what I see, I've been pulled out of hiding because I believe you need to hear this, have you forgiven God? I know it's a weird idea, but I will tell you it makes a big difference once you realize God is there wanting to help. We're the only ones who put up the barriers. I'm divorced too and my husband has remarried. So, yeah, I've been mad at God for not saving my marriage.

Just last month, we had a church service on forgiving God. It was awesome. I now know when I'm having problems and I'm not hearing Him it's because I'm choosing to belive the lies satan has planted in my head. Reading my Bible and journaling to Him have made major improvements in my life.

I'll go back in hiding now.

Lunadove

LunaDove,

That is an interesting idea. I'm not sure I can get my mind around the logic. To me it implies that God did something wrong, made a mistake or missed something.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with thinking that way.

Thanks,

T

T,
I didn't mean for sound as if God has done something wrong. The thing is, we believe a lie that all the bad that happened to us because of God's will. In reality, it's not. We know that in our hearts. I can cite the usual scripture of how God hates divorce, ect. It happened because the people we love believe that their lives are better because of divorce or whatever makes them happy. This, in turn is a lie. You see, God allowed it but it's not His fault. Hence, we need to forgive Him in order to remove that lie from our hearts.

LD

So then when I asked God for a hedge of protection around both of us, to open both of our eyes, etc. Why did he let the OM still be involved.

In Hosea, we read of how God would put a hedge of thorns around unfaithful Israel, preventing her from reaching her illicit lover.

Yet it wasn't God's will or way to do the same with my wife, after praying for similar help.

It wasn't his way to show me how to lead her to the desert, to show her my love, to remove the baals from her lips.

I was willing to do the work, I just needed to know the way. Where was God making Hosea 2:7 a reality in my ex-wife's life? Yes, I know there was/is work for me too.

Where was God telling me what I needed to do regarding my part, to be a better place for her.

Where was God, opening her eyes to the reality that she was hitching her happiness to a lying cheating man?

I don't blame God as much as I want to understand why He chose not to intervene, or not to give me the information I needed, even before she left.

If marriage is so important, then why did I get the wake up call after she checked out?

So much doesn't make sense.

I know I screwed up. Why didn't I get the opportunity to do the work to make it right.

It wasn't that I was unwilling to do the work, I never got a chance to do the work.

If I wasn't supposed to do anything, then fine. Where is God saying, "I'm here and I'll make sure my will is done?"

Since I'm seeking His will, and His will first and foremost is a deeper relationship with Him, then why hasn't that happened after nearly two years of seeking that?

I'm not fighting God, I'm fighting off the logic in my mind that is telling me God doesn't care. The emperical evidence is that God didn't care about my marriage.

I didn't see one roadblock to her affair, to the divorce, to our daughter being taken from me, to the OM having access to my XW. Not one.

I didn't see a chance to win her heart, to demonstrate that I understood.

I asked for God to explain to me what and how she was thinking and feeling so I could empathize with her. Nothing.

I asked God to help me understand what He was thinking and feeling about this, and what He wanted me to do. Nothing.

Sure, I had people say let her go, or fight for her, or show her more love. But when I asked how, of both God, when I turned to scripture to see what I should do, I came away empty.

I went to the only story I know of in scripture about an unfaithful wife, Hosea and Gomer. I asked God to show me what to do in His word, what to read from His word to restore both my relationship with Him and my relationship with my now XW.

I read Hosea, over and over again. I read Psalms and Proverbs, the Gospels, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Job, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ecclesiastes, Daniel.

I saw God rescue and restore so many.

Hosea redeemed Gomer, Job's fortunes were restored two-fold. What is the answer for me? Which will it be? What direction does God want me to go?

Is my ex-wife someone to avoid as described in Proverbs, or is she someone I should redeem like Israel?

I know in my head that God created me and all that I have. But I have to force myself to worship. I don't feel as I'm filled with God, or the promised Holy Spirit. I can't force God into my life, I can only ask Him to come in.

There is nothing I have that God needs. There is nothing I have to offer Him. There is nothing in my power or ability that I can do to bridge the chasm between me and God. Relative to God, I am powerless. I am the creature, not the creator.

I depend on God for everything, the breath I breath, the food I eat, the clothes I wear and the state of my heart.

God knows I've tried to heal and settle my broken heart. He knows I can't do it. Yet when I ask Him to do it, He doesn't either.

If I give something to God, the only way I can take it back is if He hasn't taken it. God promises to take our burdens, our cares. Yet when I try to give them to Him, he doesn't take them. Where is the promise of Matthew 11:28? I offer God this burden I have, I don't want it back, so take it from me, Lord as you promise in your word.

T