I'm all over the board here. Sometimes I want to quit, sometimes I want a breakthrough.

To bring folks up to speed, WW has been out of the home since 10/1/2003 and took our YD with her. I found out about her affair on 11/17/2003 and she filed for divorce and I was "served" on 2/13/2004.

We had an agreement in 12/04 and it was supposed to be final by the end of the year, but her lawyer made some mistakes and I sent the agreement back.

Now we are at the end of January and I've still heard nothing from her or her lawyer.

I called three times this week about the pickup of YD. Left a voice mail each time and never got a return call.

I don't know how to reach WW, if I should even try to reach WW.

I just feel like God has not released me from the marriage, but I don't see where he is making a way for me to win her back to our home.

Somebody help me, I don't want to fail my YD or WW by giving up too soon.

I will probably see her tomorrow night when I drop off YD.

Maybe I should just be in plan B and never call her again, but I don't know if that's right.

What do you do if you don't have many/any plan A opportunities.

What are her emotional needs? The only thing she states is that I cannot meet her needs.

Oh, and I've exposed the affair. Was telling OM's alumni association far enough scope for exposure, LOL?

Of course, his wife knows, my WW's parents know, etc.

I just wish there was something I could do, I feel so helpless and hopeless.

I'm going to put YD in bed now and hopefully there will be some great ideas, because my mind is a blank page right now.

Thanks,

TB

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

I don't know your whole story, but I just know that if you are feeling emotional dont' make any rash decisions. Spend time praying, spend time thinking about what you need, how you feel, etc. Really search your heart AND your head AND most importantly God for answers.
Prayers for you.
I know I am probably not much help. Sorry about that. I just know that I am divorced and sometimes think I should have tried harder sooner. But I also know that you can't make someone love you- they have to choose to. The question is, how long can you wait to see if she chooses to?

<small>[ January 29, 2005, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

Hi there

I have a similar problem in respect of when to start giving up. All I know is that reading about people who have kept their faith alive for over 3 years after their spouses left them and then getting their M fixed up again humiliates me when I want to give up after about 5 months.

The questions is probably whether one can hold on for so long?


-----------------------

Keep the faith alive

GWK

Java,

There is a book I wish you would read, called

**edit**

Don't do anything more to hasten the divorce Stop calling the lawyer. Otherwide it sends your wife a message that you don't want her.

You do want her, and God wants to reconcile you.

I think God has been working on her all this time.

Make sure you have forgiven her for everything. Do what it says in Hosea- allure her back. Pursue her carefully. She will respond.

Please try to get that book. It will give you a new perspective on things. It really does explain how we women are made.

You are the head. Love her as God loves us, and she will respond.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shul:
<strong> Java,

There is a book I wish you would read, called

**edit**

Don't do anything more to hasten the divorce Stop calling the lawyer. Otherwide it sends your wife a message that you don't want her.

You do want her, and God wants to reconcile you.

I think God has been working on her all this time.

Make sure you have forgiven her for everything. Do what it says in Hosea- allure her back. Pursue her carefully. She will respond.

Please try to get that book. It will give you a new perspective on things. It really does explain how we women are made.

You are the head. Love her as God loves us, and she will respond. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't even know how to pursue her.

Looking at my copy of If Only He Knew...

What would you like me to re-read?

You are going to have to give me very specific instructions or be ready for a lot of questions. I work well with instructions, but am not really creative.

Let me give you an example of what I face. This morning, I have YD's glasses. Wait, let me back up a bit, last night at the drop off, I notice that YD took her glasses off and left them at the house, so I tell WW that I have YD's glasses and I'll drop them off at the school today. I get to the school at about 8:05, kids are supposed to be there at 8AM, YD gets on the bus at 7:30, it's a 20 minute ride at the most, YD is not at school.

So I put the glasses in YD's cubby in the classroom and ask the teacher to give them to YD.

I call WW's cell phone to make sure everything is ok, YD's not sick etc. YD answers and says she is on the way to school. So I say I'll hang out and give her a hug when she gets there.

WW pulls up and just dumps out our 6yo YD and YD says mommy says you can take me to class.

So what do you do? She runs from me, even meeting in public at school.

TB

<small>[ January 31, 2005, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

I have a few questions;

Is WW living with om?

How often do you see her, or talk to her?

Why did she leave in the first place?

ps: praying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shul:
<strong> I have a few questions;

Is WW living with om?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, he lives in OH, we are in IL. He visits. YD seems to think he's stayed the night a few times.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shul:
<strong>
How often do you see her, or talk to her?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe once every other week. She is not good about returning calls. Just last night I called wanting to speak with YD, and got the voice mail. No return call as usual.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shul:
<strong>

Why did she leave in the first place? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wanted to find herself, but I found that she was already "interested" in OM, who BTW is/was married and 13 years older than am I. He is 52, WW is 34. I'm in the IT world, and looking at her computer gave me the info I needed.

All WW wants from me is for me to be away from her, and to supply ample child support.

TB

She must have been unhappy about something...not feeling cherished...

Does she work? Did she work outside the home while she was with you?

She worked for the first two years, took three years off when we had our YD, and went back to work Oct 2001. She left Oct 2003.

I felt her oldest D ( a SD to me ) was very disrespectful and so we would fight a lot. I asked her to handle it, and she didn't. She let's SD be disrespectful to her. It bothered me to see this.

There were other things, WW spent money as if I was an endless source of it. To put things in perspective, I've paid off as of yesterday over $40K worth of debt since she left, and have paid for my lawyer and child support.

Frankly, I'm one of the few cases where it's cheaper for me to divorce. She makes about 20% of what I make in a year. The child support almost doubles her income.

Maybe I'm better off without her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

T

Was she previously married ? Were you? Is SD's father in the picture?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to get a sense of who she is, put myself in her shoes...

Ultimately, she needs to get right with God.

What is her faith history. (That should have been my first question.)

I am going somewhere with the book thing, btw.

One of the things that struck me as I read it, was that a man is the head of the woman,( just as Christ is the head), and that where the man pursues, and reaches out and cares for the woman, the woman responds .

I am not explaining this well.

It is why I think that there is a big difference in how one should approach things when it is the wife who has gone astray.

I think a more aggressive approach is called for when it is the woman.

If I was to leave my husband, it would be to send him a wake up message that I am unhappy, that I need him to really care that I am gone, and want me back, and drop everything to find me and bring me home and be willing to talk about and work on how to fix what is wrong.

The trouble is that when a woman is hurt, or doesn't feel cherished, her dignity is damaged. She is too proud to give in. She wants to be sought after, but she won't admit it. We are taught to play hard to get games, etc. We want to be wooed.

In our culture, we don't value womanly traits; our identities are confused with wanting to be seen as desirable and soft,nurturing, but at he same time, expected to work and be tough minded etc...

I am getting a picture of her as a victim of our society's mixed up 'feminist' values..so busy proving that we are just as capable as a man; to earn etc.

Somewhere along the line, (maybe post war)alot of men seem to have lost their identity as providers and protectors.

I kow so many woman whose husbands take it for granted that their wives should work fulltime while they are raising their children, and frankly I think the woman resent it.

Its kind of a 'why bother being married if I support myself and do eveything on my own anyway, ' feeling.

We want to be cherished .

We are pretty mixed up, yes?

She never married SD's father. She had another child with another man who she put up for adoption. SD's dad is in the picture. He's a good man, voluntarily pays some CS for SD (she's 15 now) as there is no court ordered CS.

She never lived away from mom and dad until we married. We married with her almost 26 and I was weeks away from 31. I'll be 40 this year.

She was raised Catholic, but back in 92 or 93 she started worshiping in a non-denominational church and accepted Christ and was Baptised around that time. I met her at the end of 93 at a Christian Singles conference, and proposed two years later. We married in June of 96.

That's about it, I think.

TB

Her faith history is good news.

BRB, I have an internet customer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Shul:
<strong> I am going somewhere with the book thing, btw.

One of the things that struck me as I read it, was that a man is the head of the woman,( just as Christ is the head), and that where the man pursues, and reaches out and cares for the woman, the woman responds .

I am not explaining this well.

It is why I think that there is a big difference in how one should approach things when it is the wife who has gone astray.

I think a more aggressive approach is called for when it is the woman.

If I was to leave my husband, it would be to send him a wake up message that I am unhappy, that I need him to really care that I am gone, and want me back, and drop everything to find me and bring me home and be willing to talk about and work on how to fix what is wrong.

The trouble is that when a woman is hurt, or doesn't feel cherished, her dignity is damaged. She is too proud to give in. She wants to be sought after, but she won't admit it. We are taught to play hard to get games, etc. We want to be wooed.

In our culture, we don't value womanly traits; our identities are confused with wanting to be seen as desirable and soft,nurturing, but at he same time, expected to work and be tough minded etc...

I am getting a picture of her as a victim of our society's mixed up 'feminist' values..so busy proving that we are just as capable as a man; to earn etc.

Somewhere along the line, (maybe post war)alot of men seem to have lost their identity as providers and protectors.

I kow so many woman whose husbands take it for granted that their wives should work fulltime while they are raising their children, and frankly I think the woman resent it.

Its kind of a 'why bother being married if I support myself and do eveything on my own anyway, ' feeling.

We want to be cherished .

We are pretty mixed up, yes? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wouldn't have to work a day more in her life if she decided that shopping wasn't her time killer.

I made 6 figures this year by myself, so we could live ok on just my salary. I get great benefits and lots of vacation.

But she wants the kids to wear name brand clothes, we have to eat name brand foods, vacations are rather costly deals. The last was Dec 2002 when we spent over $5K to go to Disney World.

I know there are people on this board who would kill for an extra $5k just to pay bills.

She recently traded her nearly paid off minivan for a new 2004 VW Bettle. So she's in debt for 4.5 more years. The van would have been paid off by now and only had 50k miles on it when she traded it. Not a thing wrong with it.

I guess we are too different anymore, she is all about cool, what other people think of her.

Meanwhile, I drove a 13 year old Buick to work everyday, and while I did have a second car, it too was 6 or 7 years old.

The food Wal*Mart sells is fine for me. Clothes from Target or JC Pennys is fine. I think the way kids grow, YD can wear clothes from the thrift store since she will outgrow them in a year or so.

I prefer to save about 20% of what I make and not have debt.

The debt we had really stressed me out. So back in 2001 we talked about her spending and working. I didn't say she couldn't spend, but what I did say was if she was still spending the way she was as a SAHM, then she would have to go back to work. The decision was hers, spend less or return to work.

She returned to work.

She complained about how much I spent on cars, and I said I was doing my level best to spend less on my transportation needs (and I drive about 40K miles/year) than we spent on hers. During the period we had her minivans, I spent $21K on my total driving costs versus $38K just to buy her two vans before you figure gas, insurance, maintenance, reparis etc. That was from 1997 until the end of 2003.

I'm not saying she didn't feel those things, what I'm saying is she didn't seem to care about what I was feeling, the stress the spending put on me.

If I said anything about it, she was hurt. Here is an example of what I would say when I got her credit card bill. I can't pay this, if your spending continues at this pace, I will not be able to pay our bills. Can we go over this?

She would refuse to discuss it.

Thanks for letting me talk about this, it reminds me that I will be better off it she stays away.

I know that as it got worse, I was more grumpy, more stressed. My thoughtful requests to curb spending were ignored.

Well, she has lived on her own for 16 months now, so she knows what it is like to pay bills. I've seen her bank statements as part of the divorce, and she is bouncing checks, etc, so it's not all rosey for her.

She will get very little cash in a divorce settlement with the debt remaining, and perhaps $20K in a split of the marital portion of my 401(k) and IRA's.

Well, I don't know if I really want her back, since she really isn't a very good partner.

Thanks,

T

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, she has lived on her own for 16 months now, so she knows what it is like to pay bills. I've seen her bank statements as part of the divorce, and she is bouncing checks, etc, so it's not all rosey for her.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a friend who walked out on her husband a few weeks ago. For months she had been complaining about not enough money. Turns out she was racking up the credit cards and when Hubby said enough- pay it yourself or get a job or whatever, she left.

I talked to him, and his story is the same as yours.

I told her before she left, not to do it- that she will be much worse off, that they can work this out , that he is not being unresaonable etc., but she was determined to leave.

Seh is spoiled, imo. She will find out very quickly that the grass in not greener on the other side, inspite of what ppl have told her.

It is not the first time she has done this, but he would bail her out when she got tired of it etc.

Not this time. He is willing to talk about it, but he is the head of the house. He is doing his best to support her, but she is acting like a spoiled child, and withholding sex etc, if he doesn't give in.

In six months she will be calling , wanting to come back, but he is going to let her sweat it out a bit. He said he will insist that they make an agreement about these things first, before she can come back.

I think with your wife it will take a bit longer, because she works , but I think this is fixable.

Her pride won't allow her admit that she was wrong, but I think one of the things you can pray for is that she will hit bottom financially, and that she will realise that she was much better off with you.

Just like in Hosea. Classic.

This is an easy one for God, Java.

Shul,

I know it's easy for God.

However, I don't think she will hit bottom. Here is why.

Between the two kids, she gets $1500/month in child support. That's tax free money. So she makes $18k/year tax free in child support.

Her parents support her. She eats there almost every night, YD says mom rarely cooks.

OM is a retired Navy officer. So he has a pretty good retirement, not to mention he is a regional director for Humana now. So I think he makes a pretty good living.

I guess the reality of him losing half doesn't really matter to him, his wife is divorcing him, I've spoken with her.

I've not seen God do a thing to make it difficult for OM and WW to be together, and there is no sign of their relationship falling apart.

So based on what I've seen so far, I don't have the hope you do.

I know God COULD do something, I just don't see it happening right now.

T

Java, God can do this.

In Hosea, he talks about cutting them off from Egypt ( whatever they are getting their needs met), and that they will realise they were better off with him.

I know that He can do this. He knows exactly how much pressure to apply , and what things to take away. Not too much or too little.

We will pray that he does his part, and I know he will.

You need to make sure you are doing your part, which is to check your own heart; seek forgiveness, really forgive your wife for what she has done, and be able to love her freely- no recriminations or condemnation or unforgiveness.

That when you talk to her or see her, she will receive only love and compassion and understanding from you.

For that to happen, you have to really have forgiven her, just as you have been forgiven.

To love her asking nothing in return, expecting nothing in return.

Do you get what I am saying?

Someone told me about this book:

**edit**

Something tells me it will help.

Java, this is all about learning to love your wife the way God loves us.

You will be irresistable to her, because love is irresistable.

And God is doing his part whether you can see it or not. In fact I suspect that he has been waiting on you this whole time, just like he was waiting on me before he could deal with my husband.


Expect good things to happen.

We are going to pray in faith, ok?