So So

OK. Anything on your mind?

S&C

Just a rough week of on-call, no calls from YD, and I don't feel God doing a darn thing.

Scripture just tells me how happy I'm supposed to be.

Let's see what I read today...

Proverbs 24, not much help today, be wise and understanding. I'm not even smart enough to find the way to do that.

Ok, on to Psalms

Psalms 24: The earth and everything in it belongs to the Lord. So I guess I'm to be happy that he allows my family to fall apart. Ok, I have a hard time with this right now.

Psalms 54: Well God has delivered David, but not my family. It's tough to read about how great God is to others when you can't see it in your own life. That's why I get so frustrated in my scripture reading. If God is so great, why doesn't he deliver my family?

Psalms 84: Maybe I should just ask to be taken up with Him in heaven. Reading this passage, there is little to look forward to on earth compared to in heaven. So the best God has to offer is still not available to me, great.

Psalms 114: So God delivers Israel out of Egypt, yet this same God, I do not see delivering my family or healing my broken heart.

Psalms 144: More praises for a God who rescues. So since my family has been attacked, and from what I can see, is NOT being rescued, I really don't feel I can honestly praise.

So this week, I sit at home alone at night, no calls from YD, etc. Still not feeling this divorce is right, and feeling powerless to do anything.

My desire is pretty simple, to have at least my heart healed.

I guess the dream isn't totally dead, just my marriage.

If reading God's word is supposed to teach me about who God is, how do I reconcile the impression that I have that God isn't doing what he promises.

David get's his rescue, others here seem to get theirs. Even those whose marriages end in divorce seem to recover.

I don't sense recovery in either way.

I believe I would feel some sort of relief if I just knew what God had planned. What is so hard about that?

T

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a rough week of on-call, no calls from YD, and I don't feel God doing a darn thing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember thinking things like that too. But you need to remember that the issue isn't God not doing anything; it's your W's choice to disobey God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Scripture just tells me how happy I'm supposed to be.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How so?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Proverbs 24, not much help today, be wise and understanding. I'm not even smart enough to find the way to do that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Weren't you the one that said sarcasm didn't help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Psalms 24: The earth and everything in it belongs to the Lord. So I guess I'm to be happy that he allows my family to fall apart. Ok, I have a hard time with this right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God is no more allowing your family to fall apart than you are. You cannot force your W to choose to return and God will not force her if she chooses not to. IT'S YOUR W's CHOICE! Not God's, not your's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Psalms 54: Well God has delivered David, but not my family. It's tough to read about how great God is to others when you can't see it in your own life. That's why I get so frustrated in my scripture reading. If God is so great, why doesn't he deliver my family?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God never forced Saul to accept David. Saul was against him until he died. David was delivered from his enemies by their death, not by God forcing them to act in a Godly manner.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Psalms 84: Maybe I should just ask to be taken up with Him in heaven. Reading this passage, there is little to look forward to on earth compared to in heaven. So the best God has to offer is still not available to me, great.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same is true for allof us. Even Paul says so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Psalms 114: So God delivers Israel out of Egypt, yet this same God, I do not see delivering my family or healing my broken heart. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Israel was willing to leave Egypt. is your W willing to leave her Egypt?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Psalms 144: More praises for a God who rescues. So since my family has been attacked, and from what I can see, is NOT being rescued, I really don't feel I can honestly praise.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Praise is never about how we feel. It's about who God is and what he has done for your soul. That is worthy of praise.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My desire is pretty simple, to have at least my heart healed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry to say this but I don't believe that. You want more than that. You want God to force your W to come back. Other wise you wouldn't be blaming God for all of this. That He isn't doing anything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If reading God's word is supposed to teach me about who God is, how do I reconcile the impression that I have that God isn't doing what he promises. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We keep going round and round in circles. Your expectaions and His promises to me are quite different. And you won't hear what people (or even God) is telling you as long as it goes against what you want.

David get's his rescue, others here seem to get theirs. Even those whose marriages end in divorce seem to recover.

Because David's rescue came at the expense of hie enemies death. I got resued because my W chose to return. Lupo's H came back because he chose to finally obey God. And others allowed God to take their hurt allowed healing. You seem to want to hang on to yours for dear life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe I would feel some sort of relief if I just knew what God had planned. What is so hard about that?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Decide if you will if this is from God or not, but I believe God wants to handle both of you separately, IF you will allow Him to.
I don't believe either one of you is good for the other right now.

Sorry to be so blunt.

Blessing on you.

S&C

S&C,

The next time you ask me what's on my mind, and I tell you, please don't tell me that what I wrote is not what I really meant.

It makes me feel like what you think is more important than what I wrote.

I want closure in this, period. If we are going to reconcile, then let's go, if we are going to divorce, well let's go.

When I write healing, that doesn't necessarily mean a restored marriage. It means that WW and I can have some sort of R. So perhaps when I call YD, I can actually talk to her. If the marriage is restored, well praise God. If not, I've admitted that I'll have to have some more help to find that healing. If I can't count on God to heal me, then what can I count on God for? I admit my weakness, my area I need help with, and I ask God to help me. So where is the help I seek?

Why can't I be honest and say, God, your word is frustrating me right now? Is God so insecure that he might be hurt by me?

I know I'm asking God some bold questions, and I'm laying my hurt before Him. I don't want to hurt, and I've asked Him to heal me. It's that simple. Please don't read anything else into what I say but the words I use.

I may not do it right, but for you to say, I want God for force her (or anybody) to do something is insulting. I've never said I want anything forced. So I guess we have the same feeling. You said I don't hear anybody who disagrees with me. I say you don't hear what I'm saying either. You are putting words into my mouth.

So let me be clear, I don't want God to force anyone to do anything. I do want God to change me, to heal me, to teach me, and to show me the way.

Now please tell me, in that desire, where am I forcing anyone to do anything?

If you say I want anything more than that, then you are the one not listening, not me.

I am disappointed that I have not changed enough that WW can see it, feel confident that the hurts she felt in the past she'll not feel again in a R with me etc.

But I'm not saying God should change her. I'm disappointed that I've not changed enough.

I think if you will carefully look at what I'm asking for, I'm asking God to show ME the way, not change another person. Much of what I write is about how I can't find God in all of this, how I want to know what HE wants, how I'm trying to wrestle with my feelings that He doesn't keep His promises.

This is bigger than my R with my WW. This is about my relationship with God. Yeah, I know the title of the thread is about reaching my Withdrawn WW.

Maybe I should change the thread to how do I find God who seems so plain to everyone else, but is hidden to me?

T

{{{Tony}}},

It seems that what you're looking for are techniques on finding a way to get closer to God in order to feel His presence. Is that what I hear you saying? That seems to be your biggest frustration. The fact that in your mind, you can't hear Him speaking to you at all. Am I even close? That you want to know what He wants for your life, not necessarily your M.

Love in Christ,
Y

That's pretty close. What is His will for me? What is His plan to heal me? What did I do wrong as a husband, and how do avoid making the same mistakes again?

Yeah, that's it.

T

I can understand your questions. I think everybody gets to a point in their life when they question what is their purpose here on the earth? I had always thought, since I got pregnant young & married young, that my purpose was to be a W & mother. When my H left, all of that changed. I then started to question, Okay, God, what do you want from me now since the dream of being a W seemed to be vanishing. It took much reflection & much prayer & it seemed as though God wasn't telling me what to do. It wasn't until I said to myself, Y, you'd better find some other kind of plan in case your H doesn't return, that I started to see things more clearer. I started to focus on myself. It may sound selfish to do that, but I had gotten myself to a point that I was so wrapped up in my kids & my H that I forgot about me. God loved me too, and He only wanted what was best for me.

So I told my H that I could not be his friend that he wanted & I stayed away from him for a time. Although it killed me every day, I had to get up w/a fresh new attitude, say to myself that God loved me & started to praise Him despite all the circumstances around me, made a list of all the things that I had to be thankful for. Yes, my M was disintegrating right b4 my very eyes, A piece of my heart was gone, but I began a bible study, started reading the Bible to my kids at night, got more involved at church, started going out w/my sister to have a good time, really prayed to learn how to enjoy the freedom I had when the kids would go w/their father. It was nice to only listen to the type of music *I* liked when I was by myself. No one to tell me, Can you change that? It was nice to watch the movies *I* enjoyed w/o comments from "the critics" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I started to enjoy ME. I was a decent person that something bad happened to.

I started to read more about a biblical W & really analyzed where I had went wrong. In other words, I took the steps to learn. God was helping me heal by giving me a new focus - inward. Sometimes we really need to spend time by ourselves in order to see the people we really are & then do what's necessary to change ourselves. Not necessarily to get what we want, i.e., a marriage, but to be a better person, mold myself into what God wants from every human. To be close to Him & reflect His love. I started to pray for my enemies & eventually those enemies disappeared.

I guess what I'm saying, Tony is that, although it sounds weird, start thanking Him for this time to be alone. Make a list of all the things you CAN be thankful for, for instance, do you have a job?, do you have clothes on your back?, do you have food to eat? Make a list & look at it daily, reminding yourself that it indeed is God who gives you those things. Start praying for your W to find peace. Is there somthing you always wanted to do but yet didn't do w/your W? Maybe now is the perfect chance. Some kind of volunteer work? Working out at the gym? Start having YOU time. Go out w/friends & be able to laugh. This will take the focus off your W & in that process of you being by yourself & enjoying the beauty that God has created around you, you will heal. That could very well be God's plan.

It isn't laid out for us like a blueprint, although we wish it were. He calls each one of us for one main purpose, and that is to share the love He gives to us w/others. Our whole journey on this earth is to become one w/Him. How can you do that? If you have questions about the Bible, join a bible study. If you're having trouble feeling His presence, then lay down by a river & just let the sun hit you & mask in its glory. This IS God's presence. When you're weeping, lay down & ask God to comfort you & just lay there. Eventually, you will feel Him calm you down. One time I did that & I swear, I could feel His very hands touching my shoulder. It kind of freaked me out a little bit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Start to show Jesus' love to everyone around you. That my friend is how a H should love a W. He calls H's to love their W's like Christ has loved. Look at the Cor. 13 chapter & see if you did indeed fulfill that definition of love to your W. If not, which parts? This is where you would need work. You want to know how you went wrong as a H. This is probably a great place to start. Or if you did indeed do as the love chapter calls, then maybe it's your W that needs to do the changing. I know one thing for sure, when one person fails at fulfilling their role in the M, the M is sure to fail. Each person needs to fulfill their role in order for the M to be a God-filled M, full of the love that God gives. If not, two people will just drift apart & the M disintegrates. We each need to learn this though b/c human tendencies are to just look out for ourselves first.

Anyway, hope I've helped a little, weeny bit. If not, could you humor me & just say yes? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Y

Tony,

You are so good at avoiding points people raise. You took one piece of my post and tried to make it look like I’ve twisted what you said around. Please re-read what I posted and respond to the rest of it. This may be a DJ, but many times this is what I see in your posts. Standing, adgirl or any one else, if I am wrong about what I perceive, please let me know and I will offer up a complete apology.

Here is why I say what I do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want closure in this, period. If we are going to reconcile, then let's go, if we are going to divorce, well let's go.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here you seem to want it your way. If God is saying He wants you two separated for a while so He can work with you and heal you; that not in Tony’s plan, and it seems like you aren’t going to accept that. You want reconciliation NOW! …Or Divorce NOW! You want it now, and if you aren’t get it your way, you ain’t gonna play. Regardless of the possibility that God may need the two of you separated in order to work on you. …to heal you. He’s not thinking D, although your W is. NOT GOD’S FAULT SHE CHOOSES THIS.

When you post, you give the impression that God doesn’t give a rat’s behind about what is happening to your M and it seems like you want to blame God for it. You tell me that you never said you wanted God to “force” your W to do anything. Well if she doesn’t want to reconcile right now (from her own free will), what do you want God to do? How else do you expect Him to get her to change her mind? He places circumstances in her life as an opportunity for her to return to Him (and you) yet she rejects it. What else could God do? … except to continue to place those circumstances in her life or force her to comply?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The next time you ask me what's on my mind, and I tell you, please don't tell me that what I wrote is not what I really meant.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’ll try not to do that. But let’s look at what you wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I guess I'm to be happy that he allows my family to fall apart. ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If God is so great, why doesn't he deliver my family?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> …how do I reconcile the impression that I have that God isn't doing what he promises. ?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then you say:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My desire is pretty simple, to have at least my heart healed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These statements don’t seem to support each other. So how am I to determine what you meant?

If you want your heart healed, do what you need to do to improve your relationship with God (without any strings attached). Worship Him, spend time in His Word and Pray to Him. Hold conversations with God about how you feel. Trust that He will come through. God does lots of work behind the scenes to make everything come together, but you need to know Him intimately enough to know He won’t let you down.

Maybe even look up all the people in the Bible that God “spoke” to and study their lives. See what they did to get close enough to God so He would speak to them.

Gotta go for now. Blessing to you and YD.

Love in Christ.

S&C

S&C,

I think you're on target here. And I would never say that you put words in people's mouths. I think you try to search the meaning behind what people are saying. Most of the time you did it w/me & you were so right on! I love the input you have given Tony so that's why I've stayed out of it for a little while, but seeing his last post, I just had to respond.

Tony,

I think what everyone's been trying to say to you is that the ONLY way you are going to get any type of "closure" or healing, you're going to have to do what you can to get close to God, find some way, to get that R w/Him FIRST. Maybe that's what God is waiting for you to do. Maybe then, and only then, will he be able to reconcile the two of you. Or heal you enough on your own, that it will not pain you as much to get a D. One of those things will happen.

You say that </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm disappointed that I've not changed enough.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry I pointed this one particular statement out, but are you doing the changing for HER or for GOD? Big difference. Are you changing into the person that GOD wants you to be or are you changing into a person that your WIFE wants you to be. If you are doing the latter, & she is NOT following God, then you are doomed for trouble. If you would reconcile NOW, you would just be in the same predicament as what got you here in the first place. You HAVE TO change for God. If you are using your W as the person to please, your focus needs to go back to where it belongs, God. He is the One who is taking notice of the changes you are making, not your W. If you are changing for God, then yes, it is enough. There is no reason to be disappointed. Do you have more changing to do? Probably. And GOD is very patient.

It's almost like you want to have that contact w/your W & say, Hey look W, here I am. I did all these changes. Can you come back now please? I'm who you wanted me to be now. Let's change that a bit & say Hey God, here I am. I did all these changes. Can you show me even further on how to become more like you? If your W takes notice, great. If not, then the best you can do is continue to live the life God wants you to live & if she doesn't come along for the ride, then SHE is the one who is missing out, not YOU.

It seems as if you tell God, Here I am. I made all these changes. Can you please bring W home now? Tony, this is the wrong way to think. You need to change yourself to please GOD w/no ulterior motive behind it. Really, honestly, look behind your actions & see what your motivation is. All God has ever asked any of us to do is show love the way He loved us, and trust Him that He knows what He's doing. Blind trust. That's what he asks of us. Faith that He is the One in charge & He knows what's best for us. We don't know what's best for ourselves, He does. And I think what you're having trouble accepting is the fact that God thinks it's best for RIGHT NOW for you to be apart from your W. FOR RIGHT NOW! This doesn't mean forever. It doesn't mean that you will D. It doesn't mean if you would D, that you wouldn't reconcile w/her later. It means be happy in the moment, right now. Live for today b/c you never know if you'll even be alive tomorrow.

Love in Christ,
Y

I thought I did answer. I'm not a big fan of not knowing.

Why do you think that I want her to be forced to come back?

I think I've said, that I've wanted to be changed so that I'm pleasing both to God and appealing to WW. There is no coersion, no force.

I don't know how to heal my heart, I don't know how or what God wants me to do.

Maybe He can just help me not be so frustrated when I read his word. Maybe he can show me how He is true to his word. So when those thoughts come to my mind that he isn't, that I've said my prayers and yet the desire of my heart, which I believe is in line with God's will, is not given to me, that he can help me understand what is going on.

It looks like an inconsistency to me. So what's wrong with asking God to explain it?

I understand that I have to have a relationship with God, and that he says that's the most important relationship.

Well, that one isn't even going well, so where do I even find any hope for a restored marriage, or a healed heart when I can't even hear God and what he wants me to do.

Yeah, I want it all, I want to know God more intimately, I want my family restored, I want peace in my heart and my home.

And unless God shows me different, I don't see that what I want is outside of his will.

I don't see God putting up roadblocks to her getting divorced and running away. She is enabled by her parents. Of course, I don't know everything that is going on with her, but trips to Florida with the OM and other things don't seem like there are roadblocks and circumstances that bring her either to God or back home.

I feel like I've been studying and reading and talking with God about this about our relationship, God and me since 9/03.

I don't see the progress.

Yeah, I live in an instant gratification society. I look at the story of Saul on his road to Damascus. God can change a heart in an instant, if he wants to.

He can cause change like that in my life or even my family.

But let's start with me.

I'm just rambling here, and maybe we can start with God taking the frustration away so I can see him and understand what it is he's trying to tell me.

I need some sort of break through, I am unable to figure this out by myself.

T

Tony,

This is a long one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought I did answer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The joke I make where I work is “ I have an answer for everything”. Sometimes it right, sometimes the answer is “I don’t know” and sometimes I just give an off the wall answer not even related to the question. …but; I always have an answer.

You gave an answer, but it didn’t address the points that were brought up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:
Scripture just tells me how happy I'm supposed to be.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How so?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
Psalms 24: The earth and everything in it belongs to the Lord. So I guess I'm to be happy that he allows my family to fall apart. Ok, I have a hard time with this right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God is no more allowing your family to fall apart than you are. You cannot force your W to choose to return and God will not force her if she chooses not to. IT'S YOUR W's CHOICE! Not God's, not your's.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
Psalms 54: Well God has delivered David, but not my family. It's tough to read about how great God is to others when you can't see it in your own life. That's why I get so frustrated in my scripture reading. If God is so great, why doesn't he deliver my family? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God never forced Saul to accept David. Saul was against him until he died. David was delivered from his enemies by their death, not by God forcing them to act in a Godly manner. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
Psalms 84: Maybe I should just ask to be taken up with Him in heaven. Reading this passage, there is little to look forward to on earth compared to in heaven. So the best God has to offer is still not available to me, great. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The same is true for all of us. Even Paul says so. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
Psalms 114: So God delivers Israel out of Egypt, yet this same God, I do not see delivering my family or healing my broken heart. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Israel was willing to leave Egypt. is your W willing to leave her Egypt? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
Psalms 144: More praises for a God who rescues. So since my family has been attacked, and from what I can see, is NOT being rescued, I really don't feel I can honestly praise. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Praise is never about how we feel. It's about who God is and what he has done for your soul. That is worthy of praise. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
My desire is pretty simple, to have at least my heart healed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry to say this but I don't believe that. You want more than that. You want God to force your W to come back. Other wise you wouldn't be blaming God for all of this. That He isn't doing anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
If reading God's word is supposed to teach me about who God is, how do I reconcile the impression that I have that God isn't doing what he promises. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We keep going round and round in circles. Your expectaions and His promises to me are quite different. And you won't hear what people (or even God) is telling you as long as it goes against what you want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
David get's his rescue, others here seem to get theirs. Even those whose marriages end in divorce seem to recover. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because David's rescue came at the expense of his enemies death. I got rescued because my W chose to return. Lupo's H came back because he chose to finally obey God. And others allowed God to take their hurt allowed healing. You seem to want to hang on to yours for dear life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote:
I believe I would feel some sort of relief if I just knew what God had planned. What is so hard about that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Decide if you will if this is from God or not, but I believe God wants to handle both of you separately, IF you will allow Him to.
I don't believe either one of you is good for the other right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You didn’t address these points. But you did address the one where I talked about God forcing your W to come back. You said you didn’t “say” you wanted her to be forced back. But you ignored the rest. The part about it being your W’s choice to stay away and not a lack of desire on God’s part.

I could go back and quote all the things people have said. About you doing everything you are doing to become the man God wants you to be or the man your W wants you to be?

Or the possibility that God needs the two of you separated to work on both of you.

You say you don’t see God working to stop your W and OM from taking trips to FL. Did you see God working when God created the circumstances the put you and your W together? I doubt that you did when it was happening. But you might have been able to look back after the fact, and say “God was at work when a particular event happened that got you introduced to your W.

Or when you are told that God is not to blame when your W chooses to break her vows.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe He can just help me not be so frustrated when I read his word. Maybe he can show me how He is true to his word. So when those thoughts come to my mind that he isn't, that I've said my prayers and yet the desire of my heart, which I believe is in line with God's will, is not given to me, that he can help me understand what is going on.

It looks like an inconsistency to me. So what's wrong with asking God to explain it?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">James 4:2-3

2You want something but don't get it. You kill and covet, but you cannot have what you want. You quarrel and fight. You do not have, because you do not ask God. 3When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand that I have to have a relationship with God, and that he says that's the most important relationship.

Well, that one isn't even going well, so where do I even find any hope for a restored marriage, or a healed heart when I can't even hear God and what he wants me to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As long as something is more important to you than God, you are being unfaithful to God. You seem to be resisting God as hard as your W is resisting you. Maybe there is a correlation.

I think I’m going to stop right here

Eph. 1:17-19

17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[f] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and his incomparably great power for us who believe.

Blessings you.

S&C

Let's start here:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> James 1:2-8
<strong>
2Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. 4Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. 6But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a doubleminded man, unstable in all he does.
</strong>
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm supposed to count all of this joy, I'm supposed to ask God if I don't have the wisdom, and I'm supposed to be confident, without doubt.

Well, I've not been able to live up to what James writes.

So I fail, and I ask God for that wisdom, what it is that HE wants me to do.

Yet either no answer has come, or I don't understand.

You say seek Him first, well that's what I'm trying to do.

My frustration is that I've not found God or His will in all of this. Not that WW hasn't come back. Yes I think I would like that, but I would be pleased for God to just give me instruction on where he wants me to go. Even if He just wants me to sit and wait, then I'd like to know what it is I'm waiting for, so I'll know when the waiting is over.

I'm not comfortable with how indefinate this is. Like I said in the title, if God is so cleear to you, why can't I find him or his will for me right now?

T

Yes Tony, without doubt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a doubleminded man, unstable in all he does.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And once again you manage to evade the rest of the points in the past few posts that deal with God's will.

Do I need to paste them back again in a new post?

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> Yes Tony, without doubt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; 8he is a doubleminded man, unstable in all he does.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And once again you manage to evade the rest of the points in the past few posts that deal with God's will.

Do I need to paste them back again in a new post?

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm trying to cover one thing at a time. Earlier I said I'm supposed to feel joy, happy, etc. You asked me for my scripture reference. I gave it.

Of course I feel tossed about. One day I feel like I'm supposed to let go, then I feel like that isn't the way and that I'm supposed to try.

If I believe she will return, I'm reminded by well meaning people that she has free will and may never return.

Well, which is it, is the scripture James write correct, and if I believe that God will restore my family that it will happen? What becomes of free will?

Or is James just speaking of wisdom? It that is the case, I should have it in spades, yet I don't seem to be able to grasp the simple concepts folks have presented here. Or I understand them in an academic sense, such as having to let go and let God, but as far as putting that into practice, what does it really mean to let go, and how do I do this?

I say here God, take this, and yet it isn't taken from me, so I say, if you aren't taking this from me, then what do you want me to do in this? No help there either.

This is why I keep asking God for what He wants me to do, so I can set my mind, body, heart, and spirit on accomplishing that.

We can talk theoretically about free will, God's will, my will, or we can ask God to clarify what it is He wants me to do with my life, starting with today, and where are we going.

If there is something I'm supposed to learn, then maybe I can see the syllabus.

I know there is probably more to address, but my mind and heart are very tired right now.

How about we just ask God what he wants me to do tomorrow when I wake up. I'm too mentally and emotionally drained to think beyond waking up and reading some scripture right now.

T

Good morning Tony,

Ok, I have an idea. It seems, based on your last post that it might be better and simpler if we stay with one thing at a time.

But I'd like to do it this way. You've said that you don't understand God's will for you. Let's focus on the single most important thing regarding God's will.

Scripture tells us in John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that those who believe in Him will not parish but have everlasting life.

If God did that, would you believe that the most important thing was a relationship with Him? (I know you said you knew this but I want to start from scratch and get it over with starting with the most important). I think we agree on this, but I want to make sure and have a good point of reference to start with.

We're going to take it one thing at a time without introducing any other points or questions. From God's POV. Can we agree on this?

Hope you got a good nights sleep.

Blessing to you.

S&C

I agree that the most important thing is a relationship with God

Tony,

Do you think God would rather have an intimate relationship with you; a regular friendship; be an aquaintance of yours or be a total stranger to you?

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> Tony,

Do you think God would rather have an intimate relationship with you; a regular friendship; be an aquaintance of yours or be a total stranger to you?

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want me to answer based on my experience, or based on what I read in scripture? Scripture says the he wants an intimate relationship.

I have not experienced that relationship, so right now, it's only words on a page to me.

T

Tony,

I think you're in good hands, so I'll leave you w/S&C for right now. He is a very wise man & AI believe he can help you achieve what it is you're longing for, an intimate R w/God. Just remember that it takes baby steps. I know this sounds kind of frustrating, but it will be well worth it when you finally do have that R. Hope you have a peaceful night. We're all praying for you.

Love in Christ,
Y