</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want me to answer based on my experience, or based on what I read in scripture? Scripture says the he wants an intimate relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For now, neither. If you were to ask your heart, what kind of relationship you wanted with God, which one would it be?

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want me to answer based on my experience, or based on what I read in scripture? Scripture says the he wants an intimate relationship. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For now, neither. If you were to ask your heart, what kind of relationship you wanted with God, which one would it be?

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would want an intimate relationship, where God were totally open and honest with me, where nothing were held back. He knows all about me, but keeps his plans a secret.

I don't claim to be equal with God, lest you think that that is what I am looking for. But I would like to understand Him as well as He understands me.

T

Tony,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would want an intimate relationship, where God were totally open and honest with me, where nothing were held back. He knows all about me, but keeps his plans a secret.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Intimacy is about trust, not about knowledge. There are people I know a lot about, but I don't have an intimate relationship with them.

If you know all there is to know about God, where does faith come in? Why would trust be necessary if you knew it all?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I would like to understand Him as well as He understands me</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Understanding someone is quite different than knowing all about them. You can understand how someone would act or what decision they would make without knowing everything about them. God wants you to understand Him. But you can't do that unless you speak to him, listen to him and make him special in your life and trust Him.

Tony, did you know that you were going to get the job you have before you applied? You took a chance didn't you? What about when you asked your W to marry you, were you 100% certian she was going to say yes? You took a chance didn't you?

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Intimacy involves taking chances on the other person. When are you going to take a chance on God?

Blessings to you.

S&C

S&C,

It's funny you mentioned trusting God and getting a job because that's the whole problem.

Back in 1992, I left the Army, resigned my comission, and took an offer from a former employer. I used my moving allowance to return home, only to find that the offer was withdrawn.

It was rough for me, I have lived over my head while in Europe and continued when I returned to the states.

I got another job in a few weeks, but then the company went under. I was struggling to pay my bills, living with a relative, etc.

So I confessed my sins, and asked God if I could be back to work by the end of May 1992. Well a few days later, I had a dream, that I was in Sunday School and that I was asked to read Psalms 32. In the dream, I kept asking the teacher if he meant Psalms 51, and he said, no Psalms 32. Well, I couldn't find Psalms 32, so I woke up and read those two Psalms. I had no prior experience with those two Psalms, and since they were about David's sin and forgiveness, I believe God was telling me he answered my prayer and I was forgiven.

Furthermore, I had a job offer before the end of may and started on June 1, 1992.

FWIW, my anniversary was 4 years later.

I do trust God, what puzzles me is that if God could speak so clearly to me before, what is causing either His silence, or me to miss what He has to say.

It's not that I don't trust him and am not listening.

I don't hear God. So before you continue with the DJ's about what you believe my heart condition might be, why not just entertain the idea that I've asked and trusted and sought God and simply haven't found Him or His way in all of this.

I am but a man, and God is who He is. I wouldn't be engaging in this dialog if I wasn't earnest about finding God's will in my life. I wouldn't wake up early in the morning before work and read scripture and pray if I wasn't earnest about finding God.

I trust God, I don't trust myself, so since I can't hear God and I can't see what He has planned, I don't know what to do.

T

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I trust God, I don't trust myself, so since I can't hear God and I can't see what He has planned, I don't know what to do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what I have read can I tell you I understand. I feel the exact same way as you. I keep opening up the Bible and trying to read about hope and find myself closing it and hurt. I do not blame God for my M problems but I also do not understand his plan and am looking for guidance.

I just want to let you know that someone out here understands your frustration.

Tony,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's funny you mentioned trusting God and getting a job because that's the whole problem.

Back in 1992, I left the Army, resigned my comission, and took an offer from a former employer. I used my moving allowance to return home, only to find that the offer was withdrawn.

It was rough for me, I have lived over my head while in Europe and continued when I returned to the states.

I got another job in a few weeks, but then the company went under. I was struggling to pay my bills, living with a relative, etc.

So I confessed my sins, and asked God if I could be back to work by the end of May 1992. Well a few days later, I had a dream, that I was in Sunday School and that I was asked to read Psalms 32. In the dream, I kept asking the teacher if he meant Psalms 51, and he said, no Psalms 32. Well, I couldn't find Psalms 32, so I woke up and read those two Psalms. I had no prior experience with those two Psalms, and since they were about David's sin and forgiveness, I believe God was telling me he answered my prayer and I was forgiven.

Furthermore, I had a job offer before the end of may and started on June 1, 1992. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So God spoke to you and gave you something clear. I assume you were a young Christian back then?

Back in Jan. of 1985 I was unemployed and had worked in the computer industry for 3 years as a manager of one of a well known computer store. I had been unemployed for 2 months and scared because money was running out. I had an 8 mo. old son and a mortgage to pay. I was working in my yard raking leaves when I heard a voice that said “this may be the last time I will ask you”. My W and I had been going to a church and the pastor was giving the alter call every week and I felt I needed to accept Christ, but my feet just wouldn’t get me up to the front. I had been looking for a job since I got released; money was low because of Christmas and I had gone on several interviews. I had one more before I was going to work at McDonalds or something.

After I heard “the Voice”, I had one more interview for a position in computers. After the interview I decided to drive to the pastor’s house to accept Christ. I did, and when I got home I told my W (who had been praying for me since we were married). She sat down and cried and then told me that the person I interviewed with had just called to tell me I had gotten the job.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do trust God, what puzzles me is that if God could speak so clearly to me before, what is causing either His silence, or me to miss what He has to say.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3 months later, I found out the company I was working for was going bankrupt and would close their doors. I found another job immediately. One year later that company closed their doors. I was unemployed for 13 months. During that time I applied for 6 jobs per week on average. No voices.

6 months into that time, I went to an interview for a job that was perfect for me. I prayed to God to not let me have a second interview if I wasn’t going to get the job. At the end of the interview the person said; “I’ll be calling you for a second interview.” I waited 2 weeks, no calls. I called them and they told me they filled the job. I cried like a baby. Still no voices. I too asked for God to speak to me like he did before.

In the mean time I had bills to pay. I had a $116 bill due in a couple of weeks. I was talking to an old co-worker in front of the computer co. I had managed, and was telling him about the bill that was due. Someone walked out of the office and told me she had just addressed an envelope to me. She brought it out and in it was a check for $118. It was from profit sharing. God had quietly been working in the back ground to get me this check. (BTW I was 3 months short for being vested. I should never have gotten the check. Didn’t qualify for it).

A few months later I get a call from someone asking me to do some cabling for his company. I told him I charged $60 per hour and he had people that could do it for $18 per hr. He told me he wanted me to do it. I worked for 4 hours and charged him $240. Three days before the check arrived I had to do a repair on my car that cost $220. God knew I was going to need the money and provided. But still no voices.

God wanted me to remember what He pulled me through before, and wanted me to use it to strengthen my faith for that time.

He wanted me to remember that He pulled me through, not "how" He pulled me through.

How many times did Jesus heal a blind person? How many times did he heal those blind people the same way?

He wants people to remember that He can heal the blind, not "how" He heals the blind.

God is never predicable.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not that I don't trust him and am not listening.

I don't hear God. So before you continue with the DJ's about what you believe my heart condition might be, why not just entertain the idea that I've asked and trusted and sought God and simply haven't found Him or His way in all of this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are expecting God to work the same way He did before and not that He will just work; then Tony, with all due respect, I submit to you that you don’t trust God. If you will only accept that God will only work the same way every time then, with all due respect I don’t believe you are listening. Call it a DJ if you want. But I submit it to you in the love of a brother in Christ.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am but a man, and God is who He is.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So how can we question His omniscientness, His omnipotence and His omnipresence rolled up into the fact that He gave us His only son to show His love for us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't be engaging in this dialog if I wasn't earnest about finding God's will in my life. I wouldn't wake up early in the morning before work and read scripture and pray if I wasn't earnest about finding God.

I trust God, I don't trust myself, so since I can't hear God and I can't see what He has planned, I don't know what to do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just do what people have been telling you to do. Love yourself, love your D, pray for your W and let God work. Separate yourself from the pain you are in everyday. God is working on some very stubborn people that are refusing to see what God wants them to see. Be at peace that you really do trust God to work even though you don’t see it. Trust that God has your best interest at heart and allow yourself to heal.

Tony, this is probably the hardest struggle you have ever had to face, but when you overcome this (and you will) what a powerful powerful testimony it will be for others that will follow after. And what an inspiration and encouragement you will be for them. You will overcome.

Bless you.

S&C

<small>[ March 12, 2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

Gentlemen -

I have been lurking on this thread and cannot even tell you how much I have learned from the dialogue the both of you are sharing --- thank you for taking the time to post these very personal thoughts and stories.

Please continue ... boy, is my sig line out-of-date --- it's my second daughter's first birhtday today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sealfan,

Happy b-day to your 2nd DD!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Y

There is a book by Joel Olsteen of Lakewood Church called Your Best Life Now you can get it at WalMart or a book store. I feel it has helped my walk with God.

Tony?

Yes

You haven't reponded to my last post.

S&C, There is really not much to say is there?

Well, I accepted Christ when I was in 5th grade, so that was 29 years ago now, give or take.

Thank you, I'm just trying to follow the advice given. I saw WW on Friday, she was there when I picked up YD from her parents.

I can describe the encounter in one word from my perspective, nothing.

No feelings for her, no anger, just wanted to get our YD and go.

I guess I was just in love with a dream and not her. So not even my prayers to give me a Christlike love for her have been answered.

T

What can I do to help?

S&C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong> What can I do to help?

S&C </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well,

I don't know what you can do. I would like to know if my dream of a restored, Christ-centered marriage with WW is what God wants me to do, if it will ever happen, and what it is that God wants me to do, regardless of whether it happens or not?

Isn't a better question, what is God going to do, or what does He want me to do?

That's what I want to know.

T

Tony,
You were addressing S&C, but I'd like to answer these two questions, if you'll allow me:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
what is God going to do</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">,

He doesn't have to share that information with you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> or what does He want me to do?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He simply wants YOU to draw closer to Him. To become more Christ-like.

Sounds simplistic, but it's really hard.

But I believe (in fact, am now reading a book which confirms it) God wants us to seek to draw nearer to Him in our everyday lives more than He desires anything else from us. He'll take care of everything else if we will just do that ONE THING. Every day.

Still praying for more peace for you, brother.
God Bless,

Part of being Christ-Like was knowing what God wanted you to do.

Christ knew his mission, I don't.

Christ "heard" God clearly, I don't.

I don't know what the answer is, but I can tell you that reading the scripture, praying, and sitting and listening haven't worked yet. I don't feel any more connected with God than I did 18 months ago when this started, and I sought to unite/reunite with God.

I'm thinking there is something He must do, that hasn't happened yet. I'm the one in plain sight, looking for the invisible God. What can I, as a man do if God and His Holy Spirit are not plain to me, that I'm not already doing?

T

Tony, I apologize in advance if I'm butting into a conversation where I don't belong, however, I have followed this thread and can feel your pain, your anxiety, your questioning, etc.

You already know your mission. It's to be christ-like. We are to love one another, to comfort one another, to spread the gospel, to be a light in an otherwise dark world, to be the salt of the earth, we are to forgive, we are to display the fruits of the spirit, to be Christ-like. Our goal is to live our lives so that others might want the Lord who lives on the inside of us.

As for your marriage. A couple of things that have been truly beneficial for me was understanding the power of the tongue. There is an excellent book called The Tongue, a Creative Force by Charles Capps. It's a short book but very complete on the power of the tongue. Jesus says we have what we say.

I believe God hates divorce. So, the question is do you want your marriage? If so, then speak it. Speak it into existence. Ask God to make you the husband you should be and God will do that if you allow him. Throughout the thread, I've watched you say that you think you might be better off without your wife for various reasons - well, that's what you have now.

Tony, my husband was living with his ow and I continued to thank God for his salvation (even though he wasn't saved), I thanked God for restoring my marriage, etc. It's not a 1,2,3 method - it's the daily obedience to God and the following of his word. It wasn't quick - it took time but God and the Holy spirit worked situations and circumstances so that he was on his knees asking God to forgive him and his life has changed. We are a restored marriage - we have our trials however, God was true to his word.

There are times in our lives where God sits us in a place where we don't understand what's going on, (I've been there), where we aren't getting what we want, where we don't 'feel' Him, where we don't believe that He's there. Those are the times where God sees are we going to doubt him, are we going to be obedient, are we going to be faithful to Him?

Tony, if you read Psalms 139 you will see that God knew you and your wife before the beginning of the world. He knew what your life would be like today, at this very moment. He knew you would be questioning, he knew your wife would not be with you. And, yet, all that can be used for God's glory somehow. God is a purposeful God. He doesn't have a half sorted plan. He says he made marriage, he hates divorce, He can restore what the locusts have eaten, He says we are to prosper, to live an exceedingly abundant life, above all that we can ask or think.

Do you believe His word? It's really a question you don't have to answer here. I've been at that place when all was falling apart, and I had to decide if God's word was true.

I also encourage you to read a book called Lord, heal my hurts, by Kay Arthur. it's a biblical journey through how God has a plan for us, and how God can heal the pains we feel.

My prayers are with you. I hope I have not offended. I truly believe that God can do ALL things. Greater is HE on the inside of ME, than he that is in the world. I serve a GREAT BIG GOD, who can take care of my problems. He says Cast your cares on me....not for me to take them back, but for me to believe He loves me and will take care of me.

Well seems I have some reading to do.

So tell me, why hasn't the scripture reading or prayer that I've already done brought me closer to God or God closer to me.

Why do I still feel alone on days like today, when I should be enjoying time with my YD and maybe even with my W?

If God is with me, why do I feel alone?

It is really hard to keep reading and keep praying, and to keep believing when NOTHING happens.

T

Oh, Tony. I could write a book on my feelings vs. the true word of God.

For instance, some days I feel betrayed by God. Notice I said I FEEL betrayed. The true word of God says, "I will never leave you nor forsake you". So, my choice is to believe God's word or to go with my feelings which I know satan uses against me.

Satan uses our very feelings to keep us from being productive Christians and living a victorious life.

Today, I feel defeated - I feel unworthy, I feel a host of other things. I've had a rough day and YET, I know the truth. I know that I am the righteousness of God. I know that I am joint heirs with Jesus. I know that Jesus died for me (how much more worthy is that?) I know that God says we are MORE than conquerors (why do I feel defeated?).... My choice. Either believe the word of god or not.

Tony, satan must know that you are a powerful weapon because he is spending a lot of time working on you! Stand up to him. Speak the word of God back to him in spite of how you feel right now.

And remember this (or do some studying on it), it's important that you PRAISE and worship God in the midst of your trials and in spite of how you feel. You might find that you will feel better if you praise God and I believe that God is working in your life no matter what you see. Remember, we walk by faith, not by sight.

In Christ

Angelia