I guess my questions are too hard?

Tony,

I'm at work right now, but I'm composing a reply for you & will hopefully have it up right after lunch if this darn system lets me stay logged in!

Y,

I couldn't stay married, but I can stay logged in <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,

T

I'm not sure you understand the pain I feel.

You're right. I don't understand the pain of divorce. I've never had to face it. I've come close, but haven't experienced it.

When is God going to take away the pain. I doubt I will forget the divorce, when does the pain go away?

I doubt the pain will ever go away. Yes, you will heal to a certain degree, but the pain never really goes away completely. This is true even in recovery of an A. The pain of the A never really goes away (at least not for me, right now anyway) but I do think I am healing from it & moving forward. This is all still so new for you (Divorce) & the pain is very fresh. And being you don't feel close to God, the pain seems excruciating (?-spell) & overwhelming. I can only imagine what you're feeling right now b/c I know how I would have felt if I would have been faced w/D.

Why does God allow my daughter to be kept from me. Yes, He allows it. What is the purpose of this.

I can't answer this. I can only speculate, same as everyone else. Sometimes God does not reveal His purposes until much later & then when we look back on it, we go, Ahhh, if this hadn't have happened, then THIS wouldn't have happened. I can only tell you of the circumstance my BIL faced. His W had an A for 6 years & then he eventually D'd her when she didn't want to reconcile. She has & always had full custody of the kids & he sees them E/O/W. He's not happy w/this arrangement. He wants to see them a lot more. But, his W is not the nicest person on earth. As a matter of fact, let's just say that we're all happy that they are D'd. So during the course of the A & after the D, she still is vindictive. When things don't go *her* way, she yells, screams, throws tantrums, etc. & refuses to let my BIL see his children. She will go so far as to tell the kids that their father doesn't love them b/c he doesn't call when in fact, he does call & is hung up on by HER. Now why does God allow that to happen to these innocent children who don't deserve this treatment? Being kept from their father who loves them so much he would kill for them? Answer -- I don't know. I do know that the children believed her lies at the beginning & now that they're older, they are realizing what their mother is really like. I don't know if this will happen to your YD, but I do believe that as long as you continue to show her God's love, she will receive it, hold onto it, & give it to others. You have an opportunity here, Tony to continue to pour out God's love to your YD & show her what God looks like by YOUR actions. That way she will never lose God in her life no matter what her mother may be doing. God could be using you to be the lighthouse for your YD in your case. Like I said, I don't have all the answers, and sometimes God doesn't reveal the answers to us right away. You have asked, Why does God let her be w/two people who are so far removed & I think that might go along the lines w/the fact that a lot of children are w/parents who don't give a rats behind about them & then parents that have the heart & the love to give cannot have children (as in the case of a friend of mine). The fact is we don't know God's plan. We don't know what God has in store for your YD, but according to scripture, she is exactly where she NEEDS to be. God keeps us in certain places in our lives for a reason. We don't know what that reason is, but as Christ says, Grace is sufficient to SUSTAIN us while we're there.

Now, you don't feel that grace. You have no strength left to carry on. You feel completely broken. Like I told you in a post above, this may be the time, this may be exactly what YOU needed in order to be able to hear God. Your W might have been the distraction that was keeping you from hearing Him. You were so concentrated on saving your M, & I saw (from your posts) that you would ask God to change you only to have you say, Has it worked yet? Has W taken notice yet? Tony, did you do it for HER or for God? God knows what's in your heart, so I won't tell you either way. Only you know what motives were behind your asking. I also said something to you about thanking God in the midst of all of this, daily. Did you make that list of things to be thankful for? If so, do you keep adding to it?

Well, let's see that. I've been telling the storm God is bigger and the storm just laughs at me

Let's reflect on this for a moment. You're in the midst of the storm. You see Jesus standing there & you reach out to Him. You start walking toward Him but do you glance over your shoulder like Peter did & start to sink? Do you look all around you at your circumstances & say, God isn't doing anything? It seems that way from where we sit looking in. Tony, your circumstances have been so big that maybe you haven't seen Him reaching out to you & you can't hear Him talking to you. Maybe God is removing this circumstance so you can better hear Him. Now you will be able to concentrate fully on God & not the added goal of trying to save your M. Think of it in the terms of temporary, not permanent. Temporarily, you have been given a new focus.

Maybe I am an immature Christian who wants God to fix it all.

It's ironic you say this, b/c the what I received in my Mountainwings today was about this exact thing.

"Growing Through Life's Difficulties ====================================

Problems will either stop you or stretch you.


Most of the times we want to use our faith
to get rid of a problem with Divine delivering power,

but we forget about Divine enabling power,

to enable us to endure.


You are not just going through,"

This is how God spoke to me through my separation. Tony, you have to find the way that God speaks to you. It's different for everyone & comes in many different forms. I think what you're having the problem w/is recognizing it. There's something that clicks in what someone says, what someone does, a license plate, a sermon, an image, a dream, something. If the world were a perfect place, we would be able to hear God's voice like thunder, but it isn't. I'm sorry this isn't comforting to you, but this is reality. None of us can actually "hear" God speaking to us. We have to be able to recognize when He does. You said:

I thought God told me that my marriage would be saved and I got that wrong, it wasn't. I'm divorced and don't get to see my YD often enough.

And this could still be what God is saying. Just b/c you're D'd by human standards, doesn't mean that God is done w/your M. It might be temporarily on hold while you take the journey to get closer to God. You are taking the steps to do that, so that's important. And as far as your YD goes, He could very well be teaching you to be content . This is a very hard thing to do - be content w/the way things are at this very moment. Sometimes it takes a long time. You said you're an impatient man. Think about this -- could God be teaching you patience? To learn how to wait on Him? On His time? There is still a great work to be done in your W. God could be using this time to work on both of you separately & then when the time is right (which only He knows), bring you two together again.

The rest of your post you have to look deep into what has happened all around to see if God has answered those prayers. Some of them might have happened already, some of them not yet. When you ask yourself, did I believe, did you believe w/the kind of faith that is able to move mountains? Did you completely w/o faltering believe that God would do it, no questions asked. If so, then God WILL do it. I think you just expected it to happen BEFORE the D, when it could very well be, AFTER. God knows what is also in your W's heart & He has hardened her heart FOR A TIME. Why? We don't know that. But you have GOT to believe that He has a very good reason. There has to be something that NEEDS to happen before your M is reconciled. And like I said, D does not necessarily mean that the M is OVER. In the meantime, use this opportunity to follow Him. Jesus gave us two very important commandments when He died. To love God w/all our heart, our mind & our soul & to love our neighbors as ourselves. Use that, Tony. Continue to obey these commandments, do what you have control over & let God worry about how He's going to fulfill that promise of restoration. Believe it Tony, w/your WHOLE being. Don't keep looking over your shoulder & say to yourself, Is it done yet? Or end up looking up at the sky & saying, Why haven't You done it yet? You have to remember, God's ways are NOT our ways. God answers our prayers in the BEST way for US. So when you ask Him these things, He is doing what he thinks is BEST for you. He's allowing things to happen that are the BEST for you right now. It may not seem that way when you look around you, but it's the only thing we have to hold onto. The fact that God does love us & only wants what's best for us. He could very well be using you as an EXAMPLE of how to endure through the midst of struggles & come out victorious in the end. To put it in a computer analogy, do you want your computer to work the BEST WAY possible? Then your computer has to have an overhaul. You need to be w/o your computer TEMPORARILY until this overhaul is complete. And the finished product will be a brand new fully functional computer that works great.

Did anything I say make any sense? I sure hope so. Believe it or not, I do feel your pain. It comes through these posts loud & clear. I hope I didn't offend too much.

Tony,

No your questions aren't too hard. They have been answered over and over again. You just don't seem to like the answer if it doesn't bring your W or D back.

You have been given "POSSIBILITIES" as to why your D isn't with you. Instead if taking a step back and saying, "Maybe you're right, maybe God is giving me the opportunity to develop a good relationship with Him so I can be a better father to her." But you take it and twist it into something entirely different not ever recognizing the opportunity you have.


Regarding yoiur prayers:


In each of those prayers you are asking God to control someone's free will. And again, don't confuse God's "will" with His ability to do things. They are not the same thing.


Have you checked in the bible to see if there are any reasons that God doesn't answer prayer? There are reasons He doesn't. I'm not going to tell you what they are, because I want you to search for them. I want to see if you are really looking for an answer. Show me you are looking for an answer.

When you find them, apply all of the scripture together and see if this answers your question about your prayers.

Just apply them in a logical manner and come up with the answer that satisfies all of the scripture. Then you should come up "Yes God answers prayers, except under these circumstances."

After you do that apply this question; "Which is more fallible, Holy Scripture or me?"

May God give you wisdom as you search His word.

S&C

S&C,

I'll "borrow" my answer from John MacArthur.


I need to go to bed now, but I have the information. I'll re-visit it in the morning. But on a cursory glance, the only thing I think I had an issue with was faith, and I confessed that to God, asking Him to help my unbelief, much like the father in scripture who tells Jesus he wants to believe, but has problems with unbelief.

What a vicious cycle, I can't muster the faith because I have nothing I've seen or experienced to base that faith on. I know, faith is the belief in things unseen. So I ask God to help me with that, but He may not answer that prayer because I don't have faith.

So I admit my faith is weak, and I want help, and God can choose to ignore me because my faith is weak.

God wants me to help others, but He doesn't have to help me.

Yes, God is sovereign, He doesn't have to do anything. But then, does that go against the idea that God is all loving? If God loves me, and I bring my weakness to Him, and He doesn't help or even hear my prayer, how is that the act of an all loving God?

I am getting ready to teach my YD how to ride her bike without training wheels. I'm not going to just take them off and put her on the bike. I'm going to steady her, help her get started until the natural balance takes effect. I'm going to be there at first so that when she starts to fall, I can catch her. I'm going to put a helmet, elbow pads and knee pads on her to protect her because I know she will fall.

I'm like my daughter who wants to trust, whats to believe God without the training wheels. But I can't get started, I don't have the balance, the experience of seeing that faith work for me.

And it seems, God has chosen to just take the training wheels off and let me lie on the ground, bruised and bleeding.

If I'm supposed to learn to rely on God for everything, then why does He appear to be so un-reliable right now?

I relied on God to show me if there was anything I was doing to prevent this prayer from being answered. I confessed that I was having a hard time believing, and that I needed some help. Well, I guess I didn't understand the help, or God chose to ignore that prayer because He can do this.

Well, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. I've been up since 4:30AM, and have to get up early to get YD ready for school.

I had her with me tonight, we had a great devotional as well as a great time.

Thanks and goodnight,

T

ps, I saw Y's answer as well, thanks.

Good. Hope to hear from you tomorrow. Glad to see you had your YD w/you & had a good time together. Cherish those moments w/her. What you just experienced w/your YD tonight was God's love. He was speaking to you through her eyes & her love toward you. Could you feel it?

C_E_H,

The fact that you are still responding to some of the posts in this thread speaks volumes as to your perserverance, and your willingness to put up with much.

I have (and in some ways am), struggled mightily with the faith issue, much as you are. I am reminded of a few things.

Faith is grown, in some ways, much like a muscle. We have infant faith, and through hearing the Word and study and prayer and exercising faith, it grows.

One thing I would encourage you to do is stop thinking of your relationship with God and your faith as weak. The tongue is a might instrument and when you speak of your faith as weak, you "make it so". It allows unbelief to creep in, and if there's one surefire way of making sure that your prayer isn't answered, it's because you don't believe it will be.

Doubt is insidious, and sneaky, and many times we don't even realize that we have it.

Remember, you are a child of the King. You are not a part of this fallen world. Yes, you live in the world, but you are called to be apart from it.

This is not (who was it schuller?) name it/claim it stuff , but a look at what you became once you were saved. Doesn't mean there won't be struggle, doesn't mean there wont' be strife, doesn't mean everything will be perfect.

One thing that may help as well is to keep your focus off of the here and now, and focus instead on "bigger picture". God's timing for what happens in our lives runs on a scale that we dont necessarily comprehend. Sure, sometimes prayer is answered immediately. (Healing/miracles/whatever) Sometimes it isn't.

Another lesson I have learned is to know God's Will before you pray for something specific. It is possible that something you pray might be running counter to God's will, therefore that prayer will never be answered. Hence, you are disappointed and what follows follows.

I find the material at tlsm.org invaluable in understanding why Christians lack power. His material on faith and prayer has been an absolute Godsend in my W and my situation with our kids, and has answered many, many of these questions. I would encourage you to snag some of them and listen. Powerful stuff.

T,

I'm really glad you got to spend time with your D. It's good for both of you. Hope you got a good nights rest.

Y,

Lots of wisdom in your post. I too was at work and didn't get a chance to read it all until now. Very good words.

Bless you both.

S&C

TB, brother, this frustrated post pretty much sums up what I think is the underlying problem you are struggling with, even if you don't recognize it......human IMPATIENCE.

Believe it or not, Tony, others of us DO have other things to do than sit on MB or spend hours typing and responding to someone simply because they are "impatient" that we are not responding in what THEY consider to be a "timely manner." So I am sure we all collectively ask your forgiveness for not responding as quickly as you would like.

Tony, you seem to want to "wallow in" the minutae and "argue" that you didn't get what you wanted "immediately" simply because you "prayed" as the Bible instructs us to take "everything to the Lord in prayer."

You are still, whether you recognize it or not, "hung up" on the idea that God is "SUPPOSED TO" answer all of your prayers "immediately" and in the "affirmative that YOU want."

It is my belief, Tony, that until you really wrestle with this "dragon" of impatience with the Lord" that you will not "get it." Nor will you accept the "road map" that God HAS provided to you and to all Christians.

Tony, IF God were to do as we all want, the world would END right now. The world will NOT end until God has fulfilled His purpose and HIS timeframe for all who will come to Him TO come to Him. In the meantime, EVIL and BAD THINGS will continue to happen in this world. IF the world were to end today, there is a strong possibility that your ex-wife WOULD NOT be in heaven because without repentance it seems clear that adulterers will not be included in the "list of the saved." It would indicate that your ex-wife never truly accepted Christ as her Lord and Savior. God may be graciously giving you "time" to witness to both your daughter and to your ex-wife, or for someone else that God intends to use in their lives to "reach and teach" them.

So patience, Tony. I know you are fighting your emotions and each day may seem to "last forever," but you must learn to accept that God, not you or I, is "in control" and does things HIS way, not ours....even if we don't like it. Tony, we are His to do with as He sees fit, to use as He sees fits, to teach and instruct as He sees fit, to ....whatever God deems necessary in our lives for OUR eternal state, not our "here and now" state.

Does it seem contradictory at times? Of course it does. We are HUMAN and we do not have God's omniscience. We are NOT God, we are HIS "bought and paid for" servants. We, as humans (especially American humans) don't "like" the idea that anyone other than ourselves has the "Right" and the "Power" to anything THEY think is right with our lives. "WE" are in control, we make the decisions, people do things the way WE want them done or we "cut them out of our life." The "truth" is that we ARE God's and it is His will that gets done "in heaven and on earth," not ours, regardless of our desires. Understand, Tony, that God has "allowed" evil in the world since the FALL. Why? None of us knows for sure. We can point to some reasons, but that evil exists, is in the world, and that the world is "controlled by Satan" right now are FACTS. God can "intervene" and "end it" anytime...as He did once with the Flood and will do again with "Fire" after Christ's second coming. Until then, "bad things do happen to 'good people' BECAUSE of sin, not because God is "callous, unfeeling, or uncaring."



Okay, Tony. Let's spend a little time on the above quotation from your post.

[color:"blue"]"the only thing I think I had an issue with was faith, and I confessed that to God, asking Him to help my unbelief, much like the father in scripture who tells Jesus he wants to believe, but has problems with unbelief.
" [/color]

I have to admit that if you are that near "perfection," then God should jump at your "beck and call." Do you really think that "Jesus' problem" was a lack of faith, or a lack of anything, that resulted in the Father answering HIS prayers in the negative? "No, my Son, I understand the pain and the 'unfairness' of it all, but you will have to ENDURE the pain of scourging and crucifixion and death because that is what is needed to satisfy MY will and result in more good than the temporary, individual, "good" of not going through this aweful, sin-caused, state of affairs."

[color:"blue"]"What a vicious cycle, I can't muster the faith because I have nothing I've seen or experienced to base that faith on. I know, faith is the belief in things unseen. So I ask God to help me with that, but He may not answer that prayer because I don't have faith."[/color]

Tony, you may "think" that you "know" faith is the belief in things unseen, because you get too distracted by all of the other "things" that are said and/or are part of Scripture. But the truth is that you already have "all the faith you need," only you won't "rest" in that faith as being sufficient. What do I mean? Let's look at the "key" from what you said:

"What a vicious cycle, I can't muster the faith because I have nothing I've seen or experienced to base that faith on. "

Tony, if this is true, then you are NOT a Christian. ALL Christians have SEEN and EXPERIENCED all that is necessary for faith, hope, love and belief in the person and sacrifice on our behalf of Jesus Christ. There is NOTHING more needed. No more "proof." No more that God "needs to do." No more need for "doubting Thomas'."

He replied, [color:"red"]"Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed,...[/color]" (you have all the faith that you need). (Matt.17:20 NIV)

Tony, you already have all the faith that you need. What you need is the patience and belief in God, as "against all hope" Abraham believed God. "TODAY" is given to us by God. "TOMORROW" is reserved for God's hands. "Sufficient unto the day are the troubles therein" means that we deal with the challenges we are faced with each day through humble submission to God's will and through obedience to God's commands. Doing so, while trusting in God, "allows" God to shape a "future" for us.

As Abram followed God's command without question, and it was credited to him as "righteousness," so should we believe when faced with life's hardships. We are God's to command. God does NOT need to "explain" himself to us.

As Job said, who are we to accept all the "good things" that God provides and then turn our backs on Him when bad things happen in our lives. Remember, Tony, it was SATAN, not God who brought the "bad things" into Job's life. Why did God allow it? We will never know for certain, but as with so many other things recorded in the Scripture for our teaching and edification.....perhaps it was to show us what true humble submission to God looks like and what endurance for God in the face "insurmountable" personal pain and suffering and loss is like. The whole topic of Job is a huge series of "lessons in life and faith."

[color:"blue"]"Yes, God is sovereign, He doesn't have to do anything. But then, does that go against the idea that God is all loving? If God loves me, and I bring my weakness to Him, and He doesn't help or even hear my prayer, how is that the act of an all loving God?" [/color]

Here comes the proverbial "but monkey" (as Laura Ingraham likes to put it). "But" God doesn't "do it" my way, therefore He lies and is NOT a "loving God."

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."(Rom.5:8 NIV)

Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." (Rom.5:18 NIV)

This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." The words were written not for him alone, but also for us,... (Rom.5:22-24a NIV)

God bless Tony. May today be but one more day where a little stone is chipped away and the love of God for YOU is felt amongst the chaos....for Christ has gone there before you and on your behalf. "Nevertheless, not my will, but thine be done."

Tony does not seem to me to be argumentative, as much as genuinely confused and hurting.

He is searching and doesn't need to be beat over the head again and again.

Also, FWIW: I hate that style where people say someone's name over and over and over again as if they are trying to educate them like a child.

Tony,

(((((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))))))))

No amount of understanding or information can take away the pain that you are feeling at being away from your exwife and your daughter. Especially your daughter.

It is a bleeding wound, and you seem to hope to heal it by obtaining information.

Maybe you just need to sit in your sorrow and weep and mourn the loss... Like Job had to sit in suffering.

People came and badgered him about "what he had done wrong" that caused him to suffer. I think you're getting hit the same way.

It stinks and it bites and it is just awful awful awful.

I CANNOT imagine being separated from my child. When things were really hard between me and my husband, I wouldn't leave because I couldn't imagine separating him from our daughter.

I am so sorry your wife didn't stay, and that she took your daughter away.

FH,

You right, I should be content that I don't get to see my daughter.

I'm not worthy to have God save my marriage or keep my family intact, I'm the worst sinner on the planet. Who am I to ask God to keep my family together.

My daughter is in a much better place with her mother who ignores God and is probably getting married to a man who left his wife and adult developmentally disabled child.

My taking on her daughter, my step daughter wasn't good enough, and wasn't enough love.

My helping people on the side of the road with car trouble, taking care of my elderly neighbor from time to time, feeding the hungry, volunteering to go on a missions trip are many of the examples of my selfish motives.

Correcting my impatience on the road, and with my YD, and trying to be patient with my XW when she tells me things like I should be happy with the amount of time I do get to spend with her.

I'll tell you what, when God shows me there is a way for me to make up for that lost time with YD, I'll stop being so impatient about Him finding a way for me to at least spend more time with her.

If God can show me that YD is better off with XW and MOM than with me, then there is no reason for me to want her to spend more time with me.

I'll keep working, I guess I don't deserve to be married after listening to you FH.

T

There is a lot of doubt in everything you said in that last post You doubt God's
goodness. You doubt God's ability to heal/restore your relationship with your YD. You doubt God's love and concern for you. You doubt your worthiness. You doubt your faith. Doubt, doubt, doubt, doubt, double-doubt.

God does not meet us in our doubt, he meets us in our belief. Yes, it may be in despair, but not unbelief.

God wants you whole and restored. The spirit of doubt that is over you needs to be banished. But doubt gnaws at you, and it's very difficult to see past it...

Jaye,

It's not doubt, that's what happened.

God didn't heal my marriage.
God allowed the court to say I could see my daughter 3 days/every two weeks.

I'm all about not doubting, so what do I believe to turn back the clock and make all of these things that I BELIEVED would not happen, not happen.

The problem is not doubt, the problem is I didn't doubt and am now greatly disappointed with the outcome as I see it.

I'm divorced, and my daughter no longer lives with me. That is not doubt, that is a set of facts.

I don't see doubt, I see disappointment.

T

Oh, one more thing.

I had so much faith that I signed the settlement agreement believing that now XW wasn't going to divorce me, that what I was praying for was the will of God and there was no way that God was going to not answer this prayer.

I counted on God to stop the divorce and He didn't.

I guess I could have delayed a few more months, but I had faith that God would stop the divorce.

The judge granted the divorce before I even signed the two year waiver.

It was a done deal before I even signed.

So much for having faith.

Jaye, it wasn't that I didn't have faith and that I had no doubt, it was that I had faith and was so disappointed that my faith in God was misplaced. The divorce happened inspite of my faith.

So please, don't tell me I lacked faith and had doubts. I didn't have any doubts until after I was divorced.

T

I hear you , I really do. And I wasn't actually referring to the past, I was referring to that specific post.

In any case, I will relate a personal story that may offer some hope.

My W and I got married in '88. Of course, like many marriages, the bloom was off the rose pretty quickly, things got yucky and icky. Through this time, my W and I were both believers (or so we thought), and we prayed, and we sought counseling, and we tried everything we could think of. Situation still deterioriated. We ended up moving in '95, situation got worse, but then found som eanswers. And now, 17 years later, the R is rock solid.

But for 12+ of those years it was miserable. Do I resent that? That God didn't answer our prayers during those horrible years? I used to, but now I see that God 's timing was perfect. The chain of events was rather incredibile, but in short, we moved to OR, where we finally met a counselor that I could trust, that helped us a little bit. And then my wife hit her head on a cupboard door that I left open. Which after all traditional medicine failed to help restore her, we started going to some naturopaths. WHich led us through a chain of people to a Dr. who in an off-hand way started a conversation with my W that led to us reading some material that started us directly on the path to healing. WE got confirmation when my counselor who didn't know that my W was seeing this other Dr. finally threw up his hands and said "I don't know what else I can do to help you, why don't you try this guy", and it was the same guy that we had met going th eother direction through the naturopathic route.

In the moment, could I see God? Not really. In some small ways, but not in the big way. Can I see his hand on it now? Absolutely. Naturopathic medicine in MT is a joke, just this side of witchcraft. But we felt strongly we should move to OR, and that whole chain of events, completely unrelated to he marriage, restored our marriage.

Do I resent that time now? Nope. Sure, I guess I'd rather that the 12 years would've been 12 great years, and we never would've gone through it. But we're stronger now, and much better able to face issues an dproblems, and most of all to trust that God really really really does care, and is really working in our lives, even when we don't necessarily comprehend how. And not only did he restore our marraige, but he restored my W's health which was a completely separate issue that we were struggling with, all wrapped up in a neat package, complete with bow. Amen!

I do not share this to somehow make you feel bad, or gloat or anything. I share it because it's a personal experience with God's timing over the course of what, 15 years in total?

You asked for restoration of your marriage. But there was another partner in that marriage who apparently didn't want it restored. (And FH and I disagree on this point, but so what...) Restoration of the marriage may not have been God's will because the original marriage wasn't God's will. Restoration may not have been possible because your partner was actively embracing the enemy and ramming God's will down people's throats is not something He does a lot of.

Bad things happen to believers everyday. Doesnt' mean God doesn't care, doesn't mean that He still isn't there.

I really understand your struggle. I have been there and in some ways, I'm still there. I point out what I see as best as I am able and to the best I feel led.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I am a firm believer in that there is only black and white, no grey. That good things from God, and Bad things come from the enemy. Stuff doesn't just happen. That we are to constantly strive against the Enemy and achieve victory over him. And when we have unbelief and doubt, then we have just handed the Enemy a victory in the battle, if not the war.

The situation with your D is as much a spiritual battle as a physical/mental battle. The situation with your current mindset is as much a spiritual battle as a mental one.

Telly, I give up. I turn the reins of trying to help him over to you and to anyone else who wants more abuse.

Confused and seeking? Perhaps, but tell me ONE thing that anyone has said that Tony has agreed with and/or changed in his approach? Not one thing. People are trying the best that they can in this limited medium and it's either not being effective or Tony is so angry and disillusioned that he won't "digest" any of the information.

I don't know about others, but I'm through spending the hours reading and trying to compose something that will help him think. Perhaps in a year when his emotions are not so raw from the recent events we could have a more fruitful discussion.

You don't like my posting style and Tony likes to think that I'm "picking on him." I can't help what you like or don't like, but if all Tony wants to do is fight, I'm done posting. Tony seems to think that he is the only person who has ever NOT had a prayer answered the way they want it answered. Jesus Christ himself got "no" for an answer from the father, and I'd have to say that Jesus's faith and belief surpassed that of any human that ever lived. So Tony's situation is Painful, but it's not unique.

You don't like "confrontation in love" with the objective of helping to restore a brother, that's okay. Not many people do like confrontation. But sometimes it is simply the best way to hopefully reach someone sliding down an unwholesome path.

I trust that if I am not the "right" person to help Tony, God is quite capable of raising up someone else who can, the objective after all is to try to help Tony.

But for me personally, after 3 years of posting, I'm tired of the process and tired of anger in someone's life being directed at me. I hope you have the answers for Tony that Tony wants.

Tony, if you are reading this, let me strongly suggest that you get yourself into Christian Counseling with a trained counselor. You need direct support and counsel beyond what can be provide in a medium such as this.

I have every confidence that God will patiently wait on you and will be ready to help you when you are ready.

God bless.

FH,

When I read what you write to me, as I said before it seems to discount how I feel.

I mentioned that before, and you continued to invalidate how I feel, and in so many words, told me what I was feeling was wrong.

You may be 100% correct in your biblical facts, but I can tell you that not being heard leads me to feel attacked and misunderstood.

If one feels misunderstood, do you think they will give the guidance provided consideration? It would be folly to think that. Why would I follow the guidance of one who doesn't seem to understand?

I asked you to shorten your messages and others have seen what appears to be attacks. You essentially say in your last real message to me that because Jesus didn't get an answer in the affirmative to one of His prayers, I should be satisfied with God not answering my prayers.

Even if you didn't mean it, that was the message I read. I logically presented my argument. S&C asked me a question, and you provided some sarcastic response to my self evaluation.

But I agree with you, I believe I've done my part, and God didn't answer my prayer. I sorry that I disappoint you and, unlike Jesus, was not satisfied with the outcome.

Of course, remember, Jesus had the whole plan, so it's probably easier for Him to be satisfied. I don't have that knowledge, so it's much more difficult for me to be satisfied when I can't see the plan or what the outcome will be.

I really don't know what a counsellor is going to tell me to help. That it's ok for God to say no, and that God wants me to be in pain, so enjoy it. (James 1:2-8, right?)

Well, I've been doing my part, asking for that wisdom.

Let me post verse 5, "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him."

I thank God that He offers wisdom without finding fault in me.

May I suggest that the wisdom you have to offer would be better recieved if less fault finding was included in your prose.

T

Tony, I am done trying. You can "beat up" on the next fool who is willing to try to help.

You continue to "put words in my mouth" and ascribe feelings toward you that I "discount" or "don't have."

I'm truly sorry for the pain you have gone through with your wife's infidelity and your divorce. I am cognizant of, and feel sorry for, the FEELINGS you have. Most of us have had them and know what they are like.

Tony, "feelings" are not synonomous with "truth." You blame God because "you did it all right and God did not give you what you wanted." You pick and choose Scripture to support your selfish and self-centric position. You take on the same posture that the Pharisees took in "doing all right according to the 'law' and totally neglect both the spirit and the totality of Scripture."

You ARE angry. You ARE angry at everyone. Tony, I am not your "whipping boy" and I don't "have to interact with you. You want to choose to take on a "divisive" and "contrary" role, then do so.

Tony, if I am 100% correct in my biblical facts, your feelings ARE unimportant in the "grand scheme of things." God does NOT tell us to "obey" His command ONLY when we get exactly what we want or ONLY when we "feel like it." God commands obedience and humble submission to His will AT ALL TIMES.

Tony, despite the pain that you are feeling, and I DO recognize and 'validate' it as a REAL human emotion (Emotions given to us by God so that among all of them we can also LOVE), you are behaving as a "stiff-necked" and "hardhearted" person stabbing out at God and everyone else because YOUR pain and your disappointment is UNIQUE and no one else has ever been in your position and cannot possibly understand.

Tony, I'm not your friend, relative, or pastor. I am merely a "brother IN Christ" who has walked a lot of the emotional pain you are feeling himself. My marriage did not end in divorce, though we were separated and the divorce papers were just awaiting the statutory wait in our State of 1 year separation. My marriage WOULD have ended in divorce if God, and others that He used, had not confronted my wife and intervened to soften HER heart, and "broke" me into truly surrendering to God all that I am and all that my marriage would or would not be. God cannot, and will not, give you a marriage with someone who is going to actively sin against God and you as the "answer" to your desired prayer of your wife NOT divorcing you.

You state you see no value in getting direct, personal, counseling? I can't argue with that. That has been your stance all along. Unless you see the "end result" first, you will not step out in faith. Unless someone will tell you that you are "right to be mad at God and mad at the world" and that because of that you are right to continue sinning, you are not interested in anything they have to say.

I'm done playing your game and done investing MY time in trying to help you. I truly hope you do get the help are seeking, but if being 100% correct biblically is not enough, then WHAT dear CHRISTIAN is better than God's teaching and commands for you in your time of pain and trouble?

You want an emotional..."Oh, you poor poor baby! It's so saaaaaad that you have been soooo hurt." Okay Tony, I believe that. I truly do. Now that we agree that you hurt and that it DOES hurt and that it may even be UNFAIR, how does that give you the RIGHT to accuse God of sinning against you, ignoring you, and what gives you the right to tell God what you DESERVED because you "followed all the written rules?"

You support your wrailing and rantings with Biblical support passages, that you use to show that "God was obligated to do whatever you asked," for doing and behaving as you have been., You think everyone else should just instantly fall in line with you and your line of thinking. Until everyone falls for what you are saying, like Nahum, I'll not be telling you it's okay to sin against God.

God WILL grant wisdom. But you seem to be of the opinion that God grants whatever is asked for. God answers prayers that are asked in the totality of spirit and God does NOT function as "Santa Claus," giving that which you are not ready to receive.

Again, you "pick and choose" verses to support your positions, just as Satan picked out verses to tempt Jesus. Tony, all of Scripture is in concert with itself. You cannot single out one piece and use it to "justify" sinful behavior in another part. But that is what you are doing.

"Come let us reason together" has been replaced in your mind with "come lets us FEEL together." I FEEL YOUR PAIN. Does that answer any of your questions or make you feel better?

God bless and continue to be patient with you as you are "doing your own thing" ala a prodigal son refusal to follow his father's counsel.